2020 Packer Pro Bowlers

[Yoop]

Not enough elite talent on this team. Not enough blue chippers. It's why we will never win it all.

To be fair, haven't heard that one in a while

Do you not remember this forum a week ago?

do you mean when you where upset the defense wasn't rated 7th in the league?

2 blues, a bunch of reds, and a few question marks starting, thats why it's rated mid teens.

[salmar80]

Seems fair.

Tonyan could've gotten in. Another year like this one, and he will have built the recognition to get in.

[Yoop]

Seems fair.

Tonyan could've gotten in. Another year like this one, and he will have built the recognition to get in.

agreed, he deserved to get in, but not enough exposure to swing the votes in his favor, as Lupe said even the young guys like Jenkins and Alexander usually need another year of great play to get it, this is the most respect our players have gotten in a few years, 2011???????

heres a list of PB snubs, Tonyan tops the list

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-pro-bo ... 06825.html

[go pak go]

To be fair, haven't heard that one in a while

Do you not remember this forum a week ago?

do you mean when you where upset the defense wasn't rated 7th in the league?

2 blues, a bunch of reds, and a few question marks starting, thats why it's rated mid teens.

That's exactly why I was upset. 2 blues, a bunch of reds and a few guys should equal an easy and definite top 10 if not top 5 defense.

This is exactly the same tune I was saying 1 year ago about our pedestrian offense who is comprised of the exact same roster as it was in 2019 for the exception of a downgrade at RT.

[Cdragon]

Seems facognition. ed with the name reir.

Tonyan could've gotten in. Another year like this one, and he will have built the recognition to get in.

If we didn't have Graham wasting targets some of which would have gone to Tonyan. He might have had a slight buzz last year that would have helped.

[Yoop]

Do you not remember this forum a week ago?

do you mean when you where upset the defense wasn't rated 7th in the league?

2 blues, a bunch of reds, and a few question marks starting, thats why it's rated mid teens.

That's exactly why I was upset. 2 blues, a bunch of reds and a few guys should equal an easy and definite top 10 if not top 5 defense.

This is exactly the same tune I was saying 1 year ago about our pedestrian offense who is comprised of the exact same roster as it was in 2019 for the exception of a downgrade at RT.

this offense isn't anything like last year, and the players are not the same because they now have a lot more experience they can rely on to make Lafluers offense work.

defense still has the same weaknesses.
it doesn't because the the question mark positions have allowed opposing offenses to make the games closer or they outright strip us of victory, if you have weak positions right in the center of the defense opposing OC will scheme up ways to expose that weakness, doesn't matter if you have talent every where else, those positions will still be exposed
It's like a perfectly healthy person, except with a bad heart, the rest of the body can't fix that, same thing.

[RingoCStarrQB]

[/quote]

this offense isn't anything like last year, and the players are not the same because they now have a lot more experience they can rely on to make Lafluers offense work.

defense still has the same weaknesses.
it doesn't because the the question mark positions have allowed opposing offenses to make the games closer or they outright strip us of victory, if you have weak positions right in the center of the defense opposing OC will scheme up ways to expose that weakness, doesn't matter if you have talent every where else, those positions will still be exposed
It's like a perfectly healthy person, except with a bad heart, the rest of the body can't fix that, same thing.
[/quote]

If there ever was a time this season for Pettine to come up with an innovative defensive scheme that puts his players (regardless of skill level) in situations capable of consistently shutting down the opposing offense for an entire game ............ it's this upcoming game versus the Titans. The defense should come out swingin' as the 1995 D did against the Niners in the playoff game at 3-COM on January 6, 1996. This does not have to be that difficult.

It is time to salute Kevin Greene with a series of outstanding Packers defensive performances ........ starting Sunday night against the Titans and carrying on into 2021

[go pak go]

do you mean when you where upset the defense wasn't rated 7th in the league?

2 blues, a bunch of reds, and a few question marks starting, thats why it's rated mid teens.

That's exactly why I was upset. 2 blues, a bunch of reds and a few guys should equal an easy and definite top 10 if not top 5 defense.

This is exactly the same tune I was saying 1 year ago about our pedestrian offense who is comprised of the exact same roster as it was in 2019 for the exception of a downgrade at RT.

this offense isn't anything like last year, and the players are not the same because they now have a lot more experience they can rely on to make Lafluers offense work.

defense still has the same weaknesses.
it doesn't because the the question mark positions have allowed opposing offenses to make the games closer or they outright strip us of victory, if you have weak positions right in the center of the defense opposing OC will scheme up ways to expose that weakness, doesn't matter if you have talent every where else, those positions will still be exposed
It's like a perfectly healthy person, except with a bad heart, the rest of the body can't fix that, same thing.

But do you then understand the challenge of trying to identify the weak positions?

I mean there was a LOT of confidence that we knew the offenses weak positions a year ago and yet one year later we were absolutely wrong.

So it then could be argued this once again comes to coaching and not identifying our problems properly. The offense figured it out. The accepting, buying in and understanding of the scheme made the offense work with the exact same players.

Whereas the defense has the same players too who have now been in the system also for 2 - 3 years (FA's are now in their 2nd year and base 2018 players are in their 3rd year).

I mean look at our defense from 2018 to today.

Safeties - Improved significantly
Cornerbacks - Improved significantly with added experience
DLine - Same core players (Clark, Lancaster, Lowry) plus we have Keke
Edge Rushers - Improved significantly
Inside Backer and Nickle Safety - It was a mess then and it is a mess now.

I think blaming one weak spot is a cop out. I think this defense is absolutely good enough to take us where we want to go. This is a top 7 defense from a talent standpoint. They have the talent to consistently hold teams under 20 points and higher level offenses under 27 points.

They just aren't doing it. Last week it was Kevin King. Other weeks it was Chandon Sullivan. Most weeks it's lack of pressure from our highly paid and resourced pass rush.

[Yoop]

That's exactly why I was upset. 2 blues, a bunch of reds and a few guys should equal an easy and definite top 10 if not top 5 defense.

This is exactly the same tune I was saying 1 year ago about our pedestrian offense who is comprised of the exact same roster as it was in 2019 for the exception of a downgrade at RT.

this offense isn't anything like last year, and the players are not the same because they now have a lot more experience they can rely on to make Lafluers offense work.

defense still has the same weaknesses.
it doesn't because the the question mark positions have allowed opposing offenses to make the games closer or they outright strip us of victory, if you have weak positions right in the center of the defense opposing OC will scheme up ways to expose that weakness, doesn't matter if you have talent every where else, those positions will still be exposed
It's like a perfectly healthy person, except with a bad heart, the rest of the body can't fix that, same thing.

But do you then understand the challenge of trying to identify the weak positions?

I mean there was a LOT of confidence that we knew the offenses weak positions a year ago and yet one year later we were absolutely wrong.

So it then could be argued this once again comes to coaching and not identifying our problems properly. The offense figured it out. The accepting, buying in and understanding of the scheme made the offense work with the exact same players.

Whereas the defense has the same players too who have now been in the system also for 2 - 3 years (FA's are now in their 2nd year and base 2018 players are in their 3rd year).

I mean look at our defense from 2018 to today.

Safeties - Improved significantly
Cornerbacks - Improved significantly with added experience
DLine - Same core players (Clark, Lancaster, Lowry) plus we have Keke
Edge Rushers - Improved significantly
Inside Backer and Nickle Safety - It was a mess then and it is a mess now.

I think blaming one weak spot is a cop out. I think this defense is absolutely good enough to take us where we want to go. This is a top 7 defense from a talent standpoint. They have the talent to consistently hold teams under 20 points and higher level offenses under 27 points.

They just aren't doing it. Last week it was Kevin King. Other weeks it was Chandon Sullivan. Most weeks it's lack of pressure from our highly paid and resourced pass rush.

the ILB position has brand new players this season, and KIrksey is a obvious decline from Martinez at MLB and while Barnes and Martin may improve the position and have against the run, both are still liability's in coverage, that you think we can somehow over come these short comings has been proven wrong for 2 years.

offensively it's maturity in Lafluers schemes that has made the biggest difference, still last week you saw how limited this receiver group is at getting fast separation, they didn't, and Rodgers took a shelacking, when we face steller pass rush and good coverage the WR short coming are obvious, sure we can blame the OL some concerning this, however these issues have reared there3 ugly head in several games this season

[Scott4Pack]

nice to see the players get some recognition, we still lack enough blue players on defense, and I will stand by that position till this defense can actually win a game, or carry this offense when it stumbles

You mean like last week?

;-)

[go pak go]

this offense isn't anything like last year, and the players are not the same because they now have a lot more experience they can rely on to make Lafluers offense work.

defense still has the same weaknesses.
it doesn't because the the question mark positions have allowed opposing offenses to make the games closer or they outright strip us of victory, if you have weak positions right in the center of the defense opposing OC will scheme up ways to expose that weakness, doesn't matter if you have talent every where else, those positions will still be exposed
It's like a perfectly healthy person, except with a bad heart, the rest of the body can't fix that, same thing.

But do you then understand the challenge of trying to identify the weak positions?

I mean there was a LOT of confidence that we knew the offenses weak positions a year ago and yet one year later we were absolutely wrong.

So it then could be argued this once again comes to coaching and not identifying our problems properly. The offense figured it out. The accepting, buying in and understanding of the scheme made the offense work with the exact same players.

Whereas the defense has the same players too who have now been in the system also for 2 - 3 years (FA's are now in their 2nd year and base 2018 players are in their 3rd year).

I mean look at our defense from 2018 to today.

Safeties - Improved significantly
Cornerbacks - Improved significantly with added experience
DLine - Same core players (Clark, Lancaster, Lowry) plus we have Keke
Edge Rushers - Improved significantly
Inside Backer and Nickle Safety - It was a mess then and it is a mess now.

I think blaming one weak spot is a cop out. I think this defense is absolutely good enough to take us where we want to go. This is a top 7 defense from a talent standpoint. They have the talent to consistently hold teams under 20 points and higher level offenses under 27 points.

They just aren't doing it. Last week it was Kevin King. Other weeks it was Chandon Sullivan. Most weeks it's lack of pressure from our highly paid and resourced pass rush.

the ILB position has brand new players this season, and KIrksey is a obvious decline from Martinez at MLB and while Barnes and Martin may improve the position and have against the run, both are still liability's in coverage, that you think we can somehow over come these short comings has been proven wrong for 2 years.

offensively it's maturity in Lafluers schemes that has made the biggest difference, still last week you saw how limited this receiver group is at getting fast separation, they didn't, and Rodgers took a shelacking, when we face steller pass rush and good coverage the WR short coming are obvious, sure we can blame the OL some concerning this, however these issues have reared there3 ugly head in several games this season

Yeah. The ILB spot and poor coverage was complained about with Martinez too. So it was a weak spot then. A weak spot is a weak spot. Is Kirksey a downgrade? Yes. Is Barnes and Martin? I don't think they are in coverage at least. And hopefully that is why we will see less of Kirksey.

As for WRs and the Panthers game....the Panthers shut down Adams. I mean I can't expect our WRs to get separation when Adams can't get separation. And there were plays there. They just weren't made. Lazard really could have and should have had a big game. Tonyan had a horrible block on a WR screen to Lazard. What should have been a 10+ play was stopped for 2 yards because Tonyan didn't get the block. Another play in the 3rd quarter Rodgers just read it wrong. It was a great play design. Jones went in the flat. Tonyan did a bubble route and Lazard went behind him. Rodgers read the defense that Jones would be open and threw it to Jones who got stopped immediately forcing us to punt. The correct read there was to go to Lazard who was WIDE OPEN. It would have been 15 yards at minimum. Probably 20 yards and would have put us in FG range. Instead we punt near midfield.

But the biggest thing last Saturday is the run was there and we went away from it. We were obsessed to impose our air attack will and it was the wrong move. Rodgers doesn't need to throw it. When they have only 4 to 5 players in the box, which they did at times....keep running the ball. It was insane how effective we were at running the ball and it was even more insane how we didn't continue to run the ball. Again. It came down to coaching and MLF has already admitted that.

The game wasn't close Saturday because of lack of talent. It was there because of drops, mental errors and poor adjustments during the game. Talent is not an issue for the 2020 Green Bay Packers.

[Yoop]

As for WRs and the Panthers game....the Panthers shut down Adams. I mean I can't expect our WRs to get separation when Adams can't get separation.

Adams couldn't get clean quick enough because he was bracketed, no other receiver has that excuse, sure I agree we should have ran Jones more when Williams was side lined, but Dillon was not a good option to use the 21 package more, and they usually did load the box to stop Jones, and our OL was a sieve and we needed Jones to block.

and Rodgers like every other player in the league has mis cues and is not perfect, you point his couple bad plays a game as though he shouldn't be normal, he is only human, and I think the all22 will bear out that most of the time our receivers where covered.

hey I'am just giving my impression of why our offense at times struggles and the defense can't over come it's rating.

[Pugger]

Tonyan totally snubbed.

I'm a big Tonyan fan but is he really one of the top 2 TEs in the NFC? The 2 that made it were very deserving.

[BF004]

Tonyan totally snubbed.

I'm a big Tonyan fan but is he really one of the top 2 TEs in the NFC? The 2 that made it were very deserving.

Times like these I wish I installed a dislike option on the forum.


Tonyan has 9 more TD's than Engram......


9


MORE

[Pugger]

Tonyan totally snubbed.

I'm a big Tonyan fan but is he really one of the top 2 TEs in the NFC? The 2 that made it were very deserving.

Times like these I wish I installed a dislike option on the forum.


Tonyan has 9 more TD's than Engram......


9


MORE

But being a TE is more than just TDs. If Tonyan keeps playing like this he'll be one next year. Not every good player can make it.

[BF004]

Also Evan Engram isn’t a good blocker.

[go pak go]

As for WRs and the Panthers game....the Panthers shut down Adams. I mean I can't expect our WRs to get separation when Adams can't get separation.

Adams couldn't get clean quick enough because he was bracketed, no other receiver has that excuse, sure I agree we should have ran Jones more when Williams was side lined, but Dillon was not a good option to use the 21 package more, and they usually did load the box to stop Jones, and our OL was a sieve and we needed Jones to block.

and Rodgers like every other player in the league has mis cues and is not perfect, you point his couple bad plays a game as though he shouldn't be normal, he is only human, and I think the all22 will bear out that most of the time our receivers where covered.

hey I'am just giving my impression of why our offense at times struggles and the defense can't over come it's rating.

The Panthers a lot of the game dropped 8 in coverage. Any WR is going struggle getting open when 8 are constantly in coverage and have 4, maybe 5 receivers trying to get open. Add in the fact Lucas Patrick and David B let the rushers in.

But honestly in those situation, run the ball. If they are dropping 8, they are asking you to run ball. And when you are up 21 to 3....isn't that what you would naturally want to do?

I don't blame Rodgers or the receivers struggling against that defense. But I do hope in the future when defenses do that...that we make them pay by running the absolute crap out of it. We did it until 3:00 to go in the 2nd quarter and then stopped after AJ Dillon's run. It was a bad call. Keep pounding it. Make defenses respect it.

I'm just glad it happened now so MLF can learn from it. He now has a chance to call tendency breakers and hopefully he doesn't get surprised by that type of defensive look in January.

[Pckfn23]

Robert Tonyan vs. the League:
Yards - 10th
Targets - 18th
Receptions - 10th
Yards/Reception (25+ receptions) - 13th
TDs - 2nd
Catch % (25+ receptions) - 1st
Yards/Target (25+ receptions - 1st

[Pckfn23]

But honestly in those situation, run the ball. If they are dropping 8, they are asking you to run ball. And when you are up 21 to 3....isn't that what you would naturally want to do?

However, in the 2nd half especially, they put 7-8 in the box. Jones, Lafleur or Rodgers mentioned this.

[Yoop]

But honestly in those situation, run the ball. If they are dropping 8, they are asking you to run ball. And when you are up 21 to 3....isn't that what you would naturally want to do?

I question this, and I think the all22 will show that the Panthers pre set with 8 in the box often, and showed they intended to stop the run, and that coverage also works best to stop short uptempo passing, as I said our receivers couldn't clear fast enough to beat the pass rush, thats what I saw, sure at times they drpped 8, but they did so after showing a heavy box, the deception worked.

yes Lafluer admited he should have ran it anyway.