2020 Positional Draft Talk - WR

[BF004]

Man, he really gets thrown off his timing when he gets pressed.

He is not good off the line.




Why is the fastest guy on any football field only this far up field? So much wasted motion.

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[Backthepack4ever]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

[BF004]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

They were not impressive, but I feel like he looks athletic enough on the field. Great route runner, experienced lining up all over, runs every route. Ready to contribute day 1.

He is a tough one to crack. I think he could be really good here, would contribute early, but there are some legit concerns.

[Pckfn23]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

His 10 yard split is .02 off of what Davante Adam's combine 10 yard split was. His 4.25 Shuttle was .05 better than Adams' Combine shuttle. His vertical wasn't great, but his broad jump was very good. Also, how do we know he isn't strong?

Watching Higgins, I saw much better separation compared to someone like Mims.

[NCF]

Why is the fastest guy on any football field only this far up field? So much wasted motion.

That can be learned. Davante Adams wastes a lot of motion, too, but he always has a plan for it. I'm not suggesting Ruggs does that now, but who better to learn from than Adams.

[BF004]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

His 10 yard split is .02 off of what Davante Adam's combine 10 yard split was. His 4.25 Shuttle was .05 better than Adams' Combine shuttle. His vertical wasn't great, but his broad jump was very good. Also, how do we know he isn't strong?

Watching Higgins, I saw much better separation compared to someone like Mims.

All good points except the last, Mims seems to create more seperation than anyone other than Lamb when watching the All 22 to me. Higgins up there for sure. Hard to judge Higgins with pro day numbers. IF they were good, no one would believe them, if they are bad, then just lie, lol. Vert is something you can't lie about, but any timed drill at a pro day or youtube video right can't be taken very seriously.

[BF004]

Why is the fastest guy on any football field only this far up field? So much wasted motion.

That can be learned. Davante Adams wastes a lot of motion, too, but he always has a plan for it. I'm not suggesting Ruggs does that now, but who better to learn from than Adams.

Can't say I really agree on that one. I think it's important to naturally have a feel for it. That is like suggesting a QB can learn pocket presence when he has none. Guys can't be thinking about it, some just have the instincts and brain for it.

Davante doesn't really waste motion at all, a stutter step/set up move isn't wasted motion. Ruggs just straight up wastes a step or two not setting up any move and get lets DB's gets hands on him too easily.

We'll see though, I'm no expert, I just calls em like I sees em.

[Pckfn23]

Ya, I saw it the other way around. Mims was actually the first WR I watched from Salmar's link. I felt he didn't get a lot of separation at all, which I was surprised with considering his measurables. I think a lot of it was his lack of refinement as a route runner.

[BF004]

Ya, I saw it the other way around. Mims was actually the first WR I watched from Salmar's link. I felt he didn't get a lot of separation at all, which I was surprised with considering his measurables. I think a lot of it was his lack of refinement as a route runner.

Lol, I feel like his route running was near best in this class.

[Yoop]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

haaa, ya our 6.4 220lb receivers would just keep Higgins on the bench, he's a first rounder, someone will take him, you don't even like the most ready to play OT in this class

[Yoop]

Why is the fastest guy on any football field only this far up field? So much wasted motion.

That can be learned. Davante Adams wastes a lot of motion, too, but he always has a plan for it. I'm not suggesting Ruggs does that now, but who better to learn from than Adams.

Can't say I really agree on that one. I think it's important to naturally have a feel for it. That is like suggesting a QB can learn pocket presence when he has none. Guys can't be thinking about it, some just have the instincts and brain for it.

Davante doesn't really waste motion at all, a stutter step/set up move isn't wasted motion. Ruggs just straight up wastes a step or two not setting up any move and get lets DB's gets hands on him too easily.

We'll see though, I'm no expert, I just calls em like I sees em.

it's all about arm and hand ability, and leverage creates power, it's the same stuff DL have to learn at this level, so Ruggs will have to learn it just Like Daniels did at DT, people are not born with leverage

[BF004]

That can be learned. Davante Adams wastes a lot of motion, too, but he always has a plan for it. I'm not suggesting Ruggs does that now, but who better to learn from than Adams.

Can't say I really agree on that one. I think it's important to naturally have a feel for it. That is like suggesting a QB can learn pocket presence when he has none. Guys can't be thinking about it, some just have the instincts and brain for it.

Davante doesn't really waste motion at all, a stutter step/set up move isn't wasted motion. Ruggs just straight up wastes a step or two not setting up any move and get lets DB's gets hands on him too easily.

We'll see though, I'm no expert, I just calls em like I sees em.

it's all about arm and hand ability, and leverage creates power, it's the same stuff DL have to learn at this level, so Ruggs will have to learn it just Like Daniels did at DT, people are not born with leverage

Not sure how my comment about wasted motion turned into you laughing at me for Mike Daniel's leverage, but to each their own.

[NCF]

Not sure how my comment about wasted motion turned into you laughing at me for Mike Daniel's leverage, but to each their own.

You lost me too, yoop.

[Yoop]

Not sure how my comment about wasted motion turned into you laughing at me for Mike Daniel's leverage, but to each their own.

You lost me too, yoop.

first off just because I use a laughing emoticon doesn't neccessarily mean I'am laughing AT someone, aren't we touchy today.
second, I was referencing what I thought was a complaint that Ruggs couldn't beat a jam, and the comment that your either born with it, or that beating the jamb is not a coach able skill, but it's the same with routes as well, it's all coachable.

so I thought I would take it upon myself to explain how it gets done.

[YoHoChecko]

It's no offense to Higgins, I'm just not entirely keen on this mold of WR right now. He reminds me a TON of Mike Williams from Clemson for the Chargers (I have to specify since it seems like there's a WR named Mike Williams every 5 or so years). Williams is 3 years into his career and has already had a double-digit TD season and a 1,000 yard (20+ ypc!) season. He's a lower-volume, downfield and red zone thread. He has average, build-up speed and the size and body control to make those plays and contested catches. All of that is good. And it's probably right that his tape is better than Mims, so I should consider moving Mims down...

the reason I hadn't is because of team fit, where we have I think 4 guys who are at least 6'4", over 210 pounds, have average-to-subpar speed (4.5 to 4.70) that is more build-up and fluid than sudden or twitchy, and I just don't want any more of them. I consider Higgins and Pittman the quintessential model of that in this draft. I view Claypool similarly, even though his timed speed was much better. His tape is more build-up and less sudden.

I think Claypool has more possession traits, Higgins has more low-volume downfield traits, and Pittman has both. Pittman is faster than Higgins (times and on tape), is thicker/stronger than Higgins, is more agile than Higgins (on film and on tape), and is equal to him at the catch point, though Higgins does appear to make more athletic catches, while Pittman does it more with body position and ball tracking.

One could argue that both of these guys should be considered late first round material, but given my earlier comment about the bunching of the value, I see both as more early-to-mid second rounders in this class.

[TheGreenMan]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention anything on Tulane's Darnell Mooney, but I've been checking him out last night. The guy is rather small, but could be a play maker at WR and special teams returning kicks. In some of his highlights he's lined up inside and outside. Looks like he can get really high for the ball too.

Quickly becoming one of my favorite darkhorse WR's.

[YoHoChecko]

Ya, I saw it the other way around. Mims was actually the first WR I watched from Salmar's link. I felt he didn't get a lot of separation at all, which I was surprised with considering his measurables. I think a lot of it was his lack of refinement as a route runner.

Lol, I feel like his route running was near best in this class.

huh?

At least with the Ruggs disagreement, we're all seeing the same thing and disagreeing about how much it matters/whether it can be corrected. Mims the best route runner? Absolute insanity. I agree with NCF, he has really disappointing separation. I think BF, you may over-value "smooth" and under-value "crispness" in general. While you see a smooth route, I see a rounded-off cut. You see an ease of motion, I see gradual, rather than sudden acceleration and deceleration.

[Backthepack4ever]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

haaa, ya our 6.4 220lb receivers would just keep Higgins on the bench, he's a first rounder, someone will take him, you don't even like the most ready to play OT in this class

Ah please enlighten me on when I ever said higgins would be on the bench?? Not once that was mentioned. End of the 2nd sure u would take him. My post that I think you are referring too was mainly about the top guys and yes ibstand by that I like a small army ahead of Higgins.

Who is this most ready OT you speak of?? Wirfs and becton are as ready as can be.

[YoHoChecko]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention anything on Tulane's Darnell Mooney, but I've been checking him out last night. The guy is rather small, but could be a play maker at WR and special teams returning kicks. In some of his highlights he's lined up inside and outside. Looks like he can get really high for the ball too.

Quickly becoming one of my favorite darkhorse WR's.

OMG, I was just planning to comment on him today after watching him last night, as well. Really fun sleeper prospect. Shades of Donald Driver when coming out??

[BF004]

Ya, I saw it the other way around. Mims was actually the first WR I watched from Salmar's link. I felt he didn't get a lot of separation at all, which I was surprised with considering his measurables. I think a lot of it was his lack of refinement as a route runner.

Lol, I feel like his route running was near best in this class.

huh?

At least with the Ruggs disagreement, we're all seeing the same thing and disagreeing about how much it matters/whether it can be corrected. Mims the best route runner? Absolute insanity. I agree with NCF, he has really disappointing separation. I think BF, you may over-value "smooth" and under-value "crispness" in general. While you see a smooth route, I see a rounded-off cut. You see an ease of motion, I see gradual, rather than sudden acceleration and deceleration.

I don't think I am over valuing smooth, I don't like most smooth routes in most cases. That is Ruggs all day, IMO. He can sometimes get their quick and he relies on his speed, but I rarely see quick cuts. I like setups, deception and suddenness. I like slants to look the same off the LOS as fly routes. I like to see WR quickly and easily beat the press when tried. Not sure why you think Mims rouns smooth rounded routes, makes me think you haven't watched him.

I don't know, I watch the all-22 on these guys, I see a ton of seperation and great routes run by Mims.

Glad I found this video, sold me way more on a lot of things I was already seeing.