2020 Positional Draft Talk - WR

[Yoop]

At Higgins pro day his 10 yard split, short shuttle and vert were awful for a wr. Hes a guy that will not seperate at the next level. Is that something the pack wants?? I say hell no.
I know his game is jump ball and using his size to beat college cbs but that will become harder. Hes not overly strong either so hes not going to push pros around. Just a bad fit for us.

haaa, ya our 6.4 220lb receivers would just keep Higgins on the bench, he's a first rounder, someone will take him, you don't even like the most ready to play OT in this class

Ah please enlighten me on when I ever said higgins would be on the bench?? Not once that was mentioned. End of the 2nd sure u would take him. My post that I think you are referring too was mainly about the top guys and yes ibstand by that I like a small army ahead of Higgins.

Who is this most ready OT you speak of?? Wirfs and becton are as ready as can be.

the laughing emoticon, as you just used it, is often used to mean we are laughing with one another, right? I hope NO one ever takes my use of it that I'am laughing AT them, I just wanted to clear that up.


I was just going from reports I've read concerning the top 4 OT's, and many consider Wills the most ready to step in and play at this level, could have something to do with the offense schemes used at Alabama, others though think Wirfs is more athletic do to combine, some like the size and brawn of Bectin, still others think Edwards will be the best of class in 3 years, so it's really a hung jury ( more laughs)

right, you didn't mention MVS, Lazard keeping Higgins on the bench, I did, it was meant as a joke, as they would not, at least not for long, Higgens basically is the only tall, plus 220 lb receiver ever consistently mentioned with a 1st round grade, so it's sorta apples to oranges when comparing him with the other 4 or 5 also to have 1st round grades, teams will have a preference, Higgins fits what a lot of teams want and need, more so then some of the smaller guys.

[BF004]

Really wish there was a few things I could see.

Mims run a few more routes, such a limited tree at Baylor.

Reagor run in a less gimmicky offense with a decent QB.

Justin Jefferson line up anywhere else than in the slot.

Poured through hours and hours of all-22 the past 4-5 days, really changing my perception of a ton of these guys getting deeper into them.

Solidified me of both Jeudy and Lamb, just both crazy good.

Gets me liking Ruggs and Jefferson less. Makes me like Higgins and Mims more.

Hard to get reads on Shenault, Reagor, and Aiyuk with their O and talent levels around them.

Crazy class for sure.

[Pckfn23]

I like the explanation he gives, but not for this sequence and result. The corner doesn't have inside leverage to start, they are pretty much head up each other. The corner respects the initial outside move and goes with it because it is single high safety and he has help there. You see this when the CB turns a bit to flip his hips to the outside, this is not the wrong way for the coverage Texas is in. He has a LB or walked down safety to help him in the low middle and a safety to help him in the high middle. He can get beat there. The the explanation that he would have been wide open if a LB didn't drop into the throwing lane is nonsense. That's the coverage, it's by design and the corner played it as he was supposed to. Did he technically beat the corner off the line? Sure, but it was because the corner was allowing it so he could respect the outside release.

I am only commenting here on that video explanation. I am not an expert on WRs, I respect what you're saying BF and really can't argue to much with what you see either. I could see Mims going late first into the top half of the 2nd round.

[Yoop]

Ya, I saw it the other way around. Mims was actually the first WR I watched from Salmar's link. I felt he didn't get a lot of separation at all, which I was surprised with considering his measurables. I think a lot of it was his lack of refinement as a route runner.

Lol, I feel like his route running was near best in this class.

huh?

At least with the Ruggs disagreement, we're all seeing the same thing and disagreeing about how much it matters/whether it can be corrected. Mims the best route runner? Absolute insanity. I agree with NCF, he has really disappointing separation. I think BF, you may over-value "smooth" and under-value "crispness" in general. While you see a smooth route, I see a rounded-off cut. You see an ease of motion, I see gradual, rather than sudden acceleration and deceleration.

when I see receivers pushing off to gain separation right away, the first thing I want to know is WHY does he have to do that, I mean is he stiff hipped that he's rounding them, does he lack cod skills, or is he fast, but not quick, sure often it's a combination of all that, point is pushing off is Mims MO, he does it in every video I've seen, with the increase of OPI Mims will have some adjusting to do, so naturally ya have to ask yourself, what will that do to Mims game?

I think thats the biggest reason for mocks being all over the place with Mims, I think those that have him slotted mid to late 2nd are probably the closest, Mims was a combine warrior imo, and Gm's and team scouts love that stuff, but there not fooled by it.

[YoHoChecko]

I don't think I am over valuing smooth, I don't like most smooth routes in most cases. That is Ruggs all day, IMO. He can sometimes get their quick and he relies on his speed, but I rarely see quick cuts. I like setups, deception and suddenness. I like slants to look the same off the LOS as fly routes. I like to see WR quickly and easily beat the press when tried. Not sure why you think Mims rouns smooth rounded routes, makes me think you haven't watched him.

I don't know, I watch the all-22 on these guys, I see a ton of seperation and great routes run by Mims.

Glad I found this video, sold me way more on a lot of things I was already seeing.

Seriously? Ruggs' acceleration and deceleration is flat out legendary. You're right that he doesn't always run routes with the cripsness and precision that he could, no argument there, but his suddenness jumps off the page. With Mims, I've watched 4 cut-ups, but not all-22 admittedly. But his catches are too often contested, his routes are rounded and lack precision. He has more of a plan at the line than Ruggs does, but still not enough to be viewed as a positive trait in his eval for me.

Really wish there was a few things I could see.

Mims run a few more routes, such a limited tree at Baylor.

Reagor run in a less gimmicky offense with a decent QB.

Justin Jefferson line up anywhere else than in the slot.

Poured through hours and hours of all-22 the past 4-5 days, really changing my perception of a ton of these guys getting deeper into them.

Solidified me of both Jeudy and Lamb, just both crazy good.

Gets me liking Ruggs and Jefferson less. Makes me like Higgins and Mims more.

Hard to get reads on Shenault, Reagor, and Aiyuk with their O and talent levels around them.

Crazy class for sure.

Super agree with the items I bolded. The Reagor tape was next to impossible to evaluate, and Ayiuk and Shenaul to a lesser degree. I group them together as the type of player I want, but the evaluation risk and the density of the value there makes me group them all in round 2. I know this is silly to harp on, but Shenault's blocking really stood out in the wrong direction.

[BF004]

The blocking part is one of the things that stood out for me on Mims watching game cuts, more just physicality all the around. Seeks contact, both when blocking and ball in hand, very physical on contested catches.

Still kind of a jumbled mess for me after Lamb and Jeudy. Mims growing on me, got the hand size and wingspan, elite 40, that 3 cone , excellent vert (give me elite vert and 3 cone over elite 40 any day), great size, but not freakishly tall like some. Physical, high football IQ, effort, I think a great route runner, great catcher. Nothing super super stands out (other than 3 cone), but the sum of all the parts is there for an unlimited ceiling.

But everyone rank em how you want to rank. Trying my best to not be influenced, although yoop and yoho not liking Mims seem to make me like him more. Don't think I've ever agreed on a WR convo with yoho.

[YoHoChecko]

Mims growing on me, got the hand size and wingspan, elite 40, that 3 cone , excellent vert (give me elite vert and 3 cone over elite 40 any day), great size, but not freakishly tall like some. Physical, high football IQ, effort, I think a great route runner, great catcher. Nothing super super stands out (other than 3 cone), but the sum of all the parts is there for an unlimited ceiling.

I actually agree about Mims' ceiling; I just view him as a bit more boom/bust kind of guy. I see every tool, but I don't see an obviously great player. He might put it all together, and he might not. He could be Stephen Hill or MVS, yikes! But he also could be Amari Cooper!

[salmar80]

I really liked Ruggs based off the cutups, said I liked him more for us than Jeudy and Lamb, even, but did notice the wasted motion at the line and problems with separating from press.

That said, there were a TON of positives with him. The fact he busted his butt in blocking despite his smaller size and worked hard as a de facto decoy for that O, that makes me think he should have the right attitude and take to coaching.

The only thing his line of scrimmage technique deficiencies means is that he may not be as effective as in peoples' dreams from day 1, and/or coaches would initially have to help him out with motions and route selection. Over time I could see him beasting big time.

In any case, I can't see Ruggs dropping enough for us to have a chance at him.

[YoHoChecko]

In any case, I can't see Ruggs dropping enough for us to have a chance at him.

Yeah, the furtherst we could likely go up is to 18 with our second round pick, and I think he'll be gone before then. If not, though, we better make sure the Vikings don't get him :D

[salmar80]

In any case, I can't see Ruggs dropping enough for us to have a chance at him.

Yeah, the furtherst we could likely go up is to 18 with our second round pick, and I think he'll be gone before then. If not, though, we better make sure the Vikings don't get him :D

If they get him, have Alexander place him on his butt so hard all his 4 cheeks turn red.

[Yoop]

The blocking part is one of the things that stood out for me on Mims watching game cuts, more just physicality all the around. Seeks contact, both when blocking and ball in hand, very physical on contested catches.

Still kind of a jumbled mess for me after Lamb and Jeudy. Mims growing on me, got the hand size and wingspan, elite 40, that 3 cone , excellent vert (give me elite vert and 3 cone over elite 40 any day), great size, but not freakishly tall like some. Physical, high football IQ, effort, I think a great route runner, great catcher. Nothing super super stands out (other than 3 cone), but the sum of all the parts is there for an unlimited ceiling.

But everyone rank em how you want to rank. Trying my best to not be influenced, although yoop and yoho not liking Mims seem to make me like him more. Don't think I've ever agreed on a WR convo with yoho.

hey man, are you laughing at us? (joking) I don't think it's a cut so much on Mims to wonder why he pushes off sooo much to gain separation, or that if he where still around mid 2nd it's that big a knock on his ability to become a very good WR, I think so much of the little stuff like beating press, route running is coach able, that it's hard to say who'll be the best in 3 years.

[YoHoChecko]

But everyone rank em how you want to rank. Trying my best to not be influenced, although yoop and yoho not liking Mims seem to make me like him more. Don't think I've ever agreed on a WR convo with yoho.

hahaha

I'm trying to remember which WRs I've really put my stamp on pre-draft. Going back a ways, I know there was DeSean Jackson, then Randall Cobb. I know I loved Tyler Dorsett.

More recently, I loved EQSB and Trevor Davis, both of whom we ended up drafting which made me feel good, but neither of whom have done much since to make me feel validated.

Searching the old site, I pushed for guys like Paris Campbell (2 mocks), Tyler Boyd (2 mocks), Darren Waller (I mentioned him as a Jimmy Graham-type semi-TE)... but none of those were guys I, like, started a thread about. I did that with Cobb, EQSB, and... well, Shenault this year, but I've cooled off on that. I'd start a thread for Ruggs if I found him attainable, haha.

My favorites, for us, right now from the first two rounds are Ruggs, Reagor, Ayiuk, Shenault, Mims... in that order. But I wouldn't really pound the table or pick nits between a selection of any of the four after Ruggs there.

[BF004]

I would jump all over this guy in the 3rd.

Wouldn’t even be mad if we took him in at 62.

https://www.packers.com/news/prospect-p ... an-edwards



Another guy I would love as high as 3rd round is Joe Reed.

[YoHoChecko]

I would jump all over this guy in the 3rd.

Wouldn’t even be mad if we took him in at 62.

https://www.packers.com/news/prospect-p ... an-edwards



Another guy I would love as high as 3rd round is Joe Reed.

I agree on both of those! I'd much prefer Reed later, but he's a guy I really like for us. I keep forgetting to look more into Edwards, but he's definitely in my mental conversation at 62

[TheGreenMan]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention anything on Tulane's Darnell Mooney, but I've been checking him out last night. The guy is rather small, but could be a play maker at WR and special teams returning kicks. In some of his highlights he's lined up inside and outside. Looks like he can get really high for the ball too.

Quickly becoming one of my favorite darkhorse WR's.

OMG, I was just planning to comment on him today after watching him last night, as well. Really fun sleeper prospect. Shades of Donald Driver when coming out??

The guy just looks really quick and elusive. I certainly can see a small comparison to the likes of Driver. The more I watch of him, the more I like what I see.

[BF004]

The blocking part is one of the things that stood out for me on Mims watching game cuts, more just physicality all the around. Seeks contact, both when blocking and ball in hand, very physical on contested catches.

Still kind of a jumbled mess for me after Lamb and Jeudy. Mims growing on me, got the hand size and wingspan, elite 40, that 3 cone , excellent vert (give me elite vert and 3 cone over elite 40 any day), great size, but not freakishly tall like some. Physical, high football IQ, effort, I think a great route runner, great catcher. Nothing super super stands out (other than 3 cone), but the sum of all the parts is there for an unlimited ceiling.

But everyone rank em how you want to rank. Trying my best to not be influenced, although yoop and yoho not liking Mims seem to make me like him more. Don't think I've ever agreed on a WR convo with yoho.

hey man, are you laughing at us? (joking) I don't think it's a cut so much on Mims to wonder why he pushes off sooo much to gain separation, or that if he where still around mid 2nd it's that big a knock on his ability to become a very good WR, I think so much of the little stuff like beating press, route running is coach able, that it's hard to say who'll be the best in 3 years.

I guess I disagree about route running and beating press being issues that can just be coached. Obviously guys can and will get better, but egregious faults, particularly for someone on a Nick Saban team for 3 years, will give me a lot of pause.

[Backthepack4ever]

haaa, ya our 6.4 220lb receivers would just keep Higgins on the bench, he's a first rounder, someone will take him, you don't even like the most ready to play OT in this class

Ah please enlighten me on when I ever said higgins would be on the bench?? Not once that was mentioned. End of the 2nd sure u would take him. My post that I think you are referring too was mainly about the top guys and yes ibstand by that I like a small army ahead of Higgins.

Who is this most ready OT you speak of?? Wirfs and becton are as ready as can be.

the laughing emoticon, as you just used it, is often used to mean we are laughing with one another, right? I hope NO one ever takes my use of it that I'am laughing AT them, I just wanted to clear that up.


I was just going from reports I've read concerning the top 4 OT's, and many consider Wills the most ready to step in and play at this level, could have something to do with the offense schemes used at Alabama, others though think Wirfs is more athletic do to combine, some like the size and brawn of Bectin, still others think Edwards will be the best of class in 3 years, so it's really a hung jury ( more laughs)

right, you didn't mention MVS, Lazard keeping Higgins on the bench, I did, it was meant as a joke, as they would not, at least not for long, Higgens basically is the only tall, plus 220 lb receiver ever consistently mentioned with a 1st round grade, so it's sorta apples to oranges when comparing him with the other 4 or 5 also to have 1st round grades, teams will have a preference, Higgins fits what a lot of teams want and need, more so then some of the smaller guys.

The laughing emoji doesnt bother me at all. I'm just not on the Higgins train. I agree hes a 1st in some teams books just hope he isnt at 30 to us. I like others prospects and what they bring to the table alot more. I think the others add that smaller quick type that we dont have and it is another tool for ML

Yea I'm not high on wills. I could live with him at 30 but I prefer the other 3 top OTs by a wide margin.

[go pak go]

hey man, are you laughing at us? (joking) I don't think it's a cut so much on Mims to wonder why he pushes off sooo much to gain separation, or that if he where still around mid 2nd it's that big a knock on his ability to become a very good WR, I think so much of the little stuff like beating press, route running is coach able, that it's hard to say who'll be the best in 3 years.

Yoop 4 months ago: We have no talent at WR. The three stooges can't run a route, catch or get off press to save their life. No technical skills. Never in sync with Rodgers. How can you expect Rodgers to play with these three stooges. The front office should be hanged for their misstreatment on Rodgers with the crap they gave him. *keep in mind the players they gave him were a ridiculous combination of size and speed*

Yoop 4 days before the draft: Route running. Beating Press. Technical skills....meh. it's coachable.

[Yoop]

hey man, are you laughing at us? (joking) I don't think it's a cut so much on Mims to wonder why he pushes off sooo much to gain separation, or that if he where still around mid 2nd it's that big a knock on his ability to become a very good WR, I think so much of the little stuff like beating press, route running is coach able, that it's hard to say who'll be the best in 3 years.

Yoop 4 months ago: We have no talent at WR. The three stooges can't run a route, catch or get off press to save their life. No technical skills. Never in sync with Rodgers. How can you expect Rodgers to play with these three stooges. The front office should be hanged for their misstreatment on Rodgers with the crap they gave him. *keep in mind the players they gave him were a ridiculous combination of size and speed*

Yoop 4 days before the draft: Route running. Beating Press. Technical skills....meh. it's coachable.

Mims compared to the stooges, who would you think would require the most coaching up?

hope your feeling better soon.

[Yoop]

I like the explanation he gives, but not for this sequence and result. The corner doesn't have inside leverage to start, they are pretty much head up each other. The corner respects the initial outside move and goes with it because it is single high safety and he has help there. You see this when the CB turns a bit to flip his hips to the outside, this is not the wrong way for the coverage Texas is in. He has a LB or walked down safety to help him in the low middle and a safety to help him in the high middle. He can get beat there. The the explanation that he would have been wide open if a LB didn't drop into the throwing lane is nonsense. That's the coverage, it's by design and the corner played it as he was supposed to. Did he technically beat the corner off the line? Sure, but it was because the corner was allowing it so he could respect the outside release.

I am only commenting here on that video explanation. I am not an expert on WRs, I respect what you're saying BF and really can't argue to much with what you see either. I could see Mims going late first into the top half of the 2nd round.

if your playing a faster receiver then yourself in press coverage, then you have to engage that receiver, this guy explaining it even said so, imo 23 that was terrible coverage, for one he has to put his hands on the arms of the receiver so he doesn't get armed over which is what the CB allowed to happen, or he has to back peddle till Mims makes his cut, he can't rely on over the top support because it's a 4 receiver set, he should have commited to either jamming Ruggs or the back peddle so he'd be square once Ruggs makes up his mind to go in or out, he did neither and was burned, my point is it seems your defending the CB and attempting to raise mims ability, when all that corner had to do was engage Mims and he could have destroyed Mims route timing, I expect he didn't, because of the 4 receiver scheme, and he did not have over the top support, I have to disagree with your conclusion.

it'll be interesting to see just what the GMs think of this receiver group tomorrow night, I still think Mims is a excellent prospect, but more raw then the other top guys, that doesn't mean once coached up he isn't one of the best in class.