Buccaneers @ Packers - NFCC Playoff GDT - 1/24 - 2:05 CST

[Half Empty]

I think you don’t give the Bucs enough credit. You do not win a NFCCG by luck. No way and no how.

I think it depends on how one defines 'luck'. If your guy beats me guy, not luck. If my guy flubs on his own, you're lucky that's the guy who was involved. If you confine lucky to only those instances that nobody could have anticipated, ala lightning striking a perfectly thrown pass, you're probably right.

Let me just say this.

If the Packers won yesterday the way the Bucs did....I don't think many here would feel all that great about the win. I know I wouldn't and would probably get heckled for saying I wasn't comfortable with the win. But 2 turnovers when one was forced due to a penalty. Plus 4 bail out throws that work and 3 other bail out throws that end up INTs....wouldn't make me feel too good about our SB chances. And you know there would be b*tching about WRs not getting open and needing to rely on Rodgers etc.

I think many on this board would have called it "win ugly" or any other method pertaining to that.

Not much with which to argue there, but I think it's a different topic. I still think the Bucs were equal parts lucky and good. I would also have been one, if the Pack had won, bemoaning what a win like that portends for the next game. Except for the SB, have never been one of the "a win is a win" folks. Having seen some major injuries to KC, it's entirely possible that TB pulls it off, but, based on their performance yesterday, I'd bet against them.

[salmar80]

[German_Panzer]

2014 & $%&# was worse because 1) the victory was just out there to grab and 2) our chances in the SB back then would have been better than now against KC. Just my opinion.

[texas]

Guys (and ladies),

Please take this as a loving rebuke or a gentle encouragement, whichever works best for you.

If I hear one more person talk about how the Green Bay Packers are destined to not be as good next year, I'm gonna hurl. I understand that is a natural reaction to a heart-breaking loss. We all feel it. Some of us even lost sleep last night about it.

But I'm looking at two consecutive seasons of 13-3 with marked improvement in a number of ways. And I'm thinking this Packer squad will be BETTER next year than this year. And that's even if we lose Linsely, Aaron Jones, and three other starters.

Guty and MLF have already made a great record for two seasons that shows that they are making good decisions regarding staff, player personnel, and tactics. The 26 wins and two NFCCG appearances did not happen by accident. This team deserved it.

Unless a crazy amount of injuries occurs next season, I'm calling for a BETTER team. And Aaron Rogers will be at least as good as he was this year.

So there. I said it. Please continue with the regularly scheduled lamenting. We'll all cheer again soon enough!
I love Packer Nation!

Agreed. Everyone said the same thing going into this season. No reason to doubt MLF at this point.

[texas]

Trade Rodgers? No way. Although you sort of do need a QB who can scramble for the playoffs. Had he scrambled when we got near the goal line instead of throwing to Davante, different game entirely. But I was hoping to draft a QB going into the 2020 draft, not to actually replace Rodgers, but to light a fire under him. Mission accomplished. No part of me actually wants to move on from him. As far as I'm concerned, we spent a 1st on 4 years of peak Rodgers.

This team seems like the same old playoff chokers as we were under MM, but I just have to think MLF won't stand for that like MM did. And the first thing he should do is fire Pettine. We've seen this already with Dom, and I think part of the complacency that became our identity stems from MM absolutely refusing to hold anyone accountable. So even if you think Pettine has done an acceptable job, which I guess he has, what happened today was not acceptable and someone needs to be held accountable. So fire Pettine, absolutely do not bring King back (even if I think he's probably a slightly above average #2 CB), and bring in Wade Phillips, who always seems to field #1 defenses.

We also could really use a top ILB or another DL. I think we're pretty much forced to cut Preston Smith (and honestly some have mentioned Zadarius, which I would try hard not to do but this cap is going to be unforgiving). I would love to keep Jones, and maybe after today his price will be cheaper, but it's just a fact you don't overpay for RB, so maybe if we could figure out a way to give him a 2-year deal that could work, if we could fit him in under the cap somehow. But if he leaves, I have to assume MLF is trying to build a RB corps like Shanahan's, and if that's the case, the individual RBs shouldn't really matter that much.

How big of a cap hit is Preston? He is fine rushing the passer. He struggled when that stupid Pettine had him covering TEs.

I want to say $14 million. But if not then yeah I'd probably keep him. It's not like he's bad or average. He's still solid. It's just that the cap will be like $20 million less, which pretty much never happens

[lupedafiasco]

Preston is an 8 mil dead cap, 8 mil saving if we cut him this off season. I’m torn whether that is worth it or not.

[texas]

I agree with the general concepts of what you are saying. But I disagree that the better team lost. The Bucs were the better team yesterday. Maybe they aren't on most days, but they were yesterday and that's what gets them to the Dance.

They played with more speed and aggressiveness on defense.
They took chances on offense.
They used calculated risks to decide when to take killer shots and many of them worked.
They exploited our times of lack of discipline.

Yeah, the Bucs were definitely better yesterday. We can probably agree that the Pack is better overall, but it wasn't yesterday. That's why they play the game.

They took chances on offense when they were forced to. All three of their big plays were made when it was either 3rd and long or 4th down with no time on the clock and they just connected.

I attribute this to the the Packers beating themselves yesterday. Not the Bucs being the superior team. When you win because your entire production literally rests on 3 or 4 plays....it tells me you weren't the superior team. You just had the football gods smile on you.

I don't think it was 3 or 4 plays. I think, as has often been the case, they were the more physically dominant team. Their D was in Rodgers' face all day, whether that be because of OL injuries or good D players or good playcalling, who knows. Brady seemed relatively unscathed and I remember several plays where it felt like he had all day despite us having Zadarius, Kenny Clark, and Rashan Gary.

Their DBs held us up and down the field, which, although I like cover corners, has been repeatedly shown to be the way to win in January. When Schneider took over Seattle, he said his DB strategy was to grab guys who could win in a street fight, and that resulted in the legion of boom. Instead we grab dorks like Kevin King who aren't going to be winning any street fights.

TB also has a better WR corps. They exploited the mismatches all day. They matched up better against us. If not those 3 or 4 plays, it could have been any other number of near misses. We had luck in our favor too. Brady threw 3 picks. Since when does that happen at this stage in his career? Especially when Mike Evans was the target- he has one of the largest catch radiuses in all of football.

The defensive call at the end of the first half was obviously ridiculous and should get Pettine fired. He already was sort of on the hot seat and after 3 years, it's time to look elsewhere.

Aaron Jones got hit by their safety and fumbled, but then didn't take note of that and repeated the error early in the second half.

I think they got more luck than we did, but we can't say we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot with our own bad decisions.

[texas]

Preston is an 8 mil dead cap, 8 mil saving if we cut him this off season. I’m torn whether that is worth it or not.

Yeah idk. Usually I would want to keep him but this year is special.

[Labrev]

2014 & $%&# was worse because 1) the victory was just out there to grab and 2) our chances in the SB back then would have been better than now against KC. Just my opinion.

Agreed. 2014 game we had well in hand and just steadily pissed it away. This game, we were getting beaten quite early. And we probably don't beat the Chiefs if we can't beat Tampa; KC is a better team. 2014 we had already beaten the Pats and I feel like we would have again.

Frankly, I am already over this one as a Packer fan, but as a Rodgers fan and knowing what this meant for him... the heartbreak is enduring.

[Pugger]

Agreed.

In addition, Our second round draft selection averaged 5.7 yards per carry and moved the pile on his grand total of 3 carries. Even Jamaal averaged over 3 yards, and he got stone walled plenty.

We panicked and reverted back to McCarthy style

Getting that first down is so critical for our offense. I honestly believe we we would have put Dillon in there if we could have just mustered one first down after any of those two picks.

But yes. The 6 plays following the two picks are so very, very disappointing.

Staying out of 3rd and long is critical for our offense too.

[Pugger]

you just refuse to deal with the fact that Lazard, MVS, Q, and Taylor are slow off the line, long stride type receivers, there aint a slot type receiver in the bunch, that cause the OL to have to block longer to give those receivers time to separate and thats if there ever able to do so.

we where better in every game Ervin played, Austin was never able to garner respect from a defense, and unless your motion man is able to do that, then pre snap motion doesn't have it's desired affect which is to freeze the defense for a split second and give the receivers that time to help beat the press, either your purposely being obtuse concerning this, or you simply neglect it's value through outright ignorance.

Yoop. I get having more better players makes you better. Just like I get having more money makes you richer. It's not hard to concede to that.

But football organizations also have fixed resources and fixed decisions. There wasn't a WR on the board on draft day that would have helped us. Only Higgins was available and he is the same type of WR we already have.

But having all said that, all NFL teams have strengths and weaknesses. Our offense and WR this year was not a weakness. You don't put up those kind of points and production when it's a weakness. We also got tremendous production from our WR group outside of Adams with the play of MVS yesterday. He did it not only on the long TD but he also did it on shorter routes.

No our roster was plenty fine enough to win it all this year. At some point you have to trust your players to just make the plays. You have to trust trust Kevin King doesn't get smoked 4 times. You have to trust that Davante Adams catches a ball he always catches. You have to trust Aaron Jones doesn't put it on the ground twice when he normally doesn't fumble. You have to trust Rodgers doesn't throw an interception when he normally doesn't throw interceptions. You have to trust Darnell Savage plays like a safety and doesn't allow the ball to be caught on his responsibility.

I know we love to obsess ourselves in making this "perfect" roster so we are ensured of not feeling pain in January but the roster we had this year was about as close as you're gonna get to that. At some point you just have to trust your players or else you will always for the life of you be mad at your GM. Sometimes...sometimes it's the player's fault when they just didn't make the play when the play was there to be made.

I also think Mike Pettine's call to end the half is unforgivable. To not have both safeties back for the long ball is inexcusable.

Yoop does have a point of not having a slot guy. How come we stopped using Austin as a slot/motion guy? Is he not as good as Tyler Irvin?

[Pugger]

[Pugger]

I know i said it yesterday, but I am still sick to my stomach about how much I saw Redmond yesterday, and how we signed Tramon to be a cheerleader. Tramon knows the D and he got plenty of snaps just the week before, he was in shape.

But how fast is he at his advanced age?

[go pak go]

I think they got more luck than we did, but we can't say we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot with our own bad decisions.

And that's Tampa's luck right?

Just like when the Bucs drop a ball....that's our luck. We just had more of those us not executing.

I think people are grossly misunderstanding my definition of the Bucs got lucky. I don't mean that the Packers play well. I mean exactly the opposite of that. 1 to 2 players made huge mistakes which cost us the game and for that reason, the Bucs really lucked out.

When you take 3 desperation shots down the field on 3rd down (keep in mind Rodgers does this to MVS alot) and connect on all 3....I'd say that's a pretty lucky day at the office and you're glad the opponent didn't play those better.

[Pckfn23]

Cut Preston Smith in June:

POST-6/1 RELEASE
2021 Dead Cap: $4,000,000
2022 Dead Cap: $4,000,000
2021 Cap Savings: $12,000,000

[go pak go]

you just refuse to deal with the fact that Lazard, MVS, Q, and Taylor are slow off the line, long stride type receivers, there aint a slot type receiver in the bunch, that cause the OL to have to block longer to give those receivers time to separate and thats if there ever able to do so.

we where better in every game Ervin played, Austin was never able to garner respect from a defense, and unless your motion man is able to do that, then pre snap motion doesn't have it's desired affect which is to freeze the defense for a split second and give the receivers that time to help beat the press, either your purposely being obtuse concerning this, or you simply neglect it's value through outright ignorance.

Yoop. I get having more better players makes you better. Just like I get having more money makes you richer. It's not hard to concede to that.

But football organizations also have fixed resources and fixed decisions. There wasn't a WR on the board on draft day that would have helped us. Only Higgins was available and he is the same type of WR we already have.

But having all said that, all NFL teams have strengths and weaknesses. Our offense and WR this year was not a weakness. You don't put up those kind of points and production when it's a weakness. We also got tremendous production from our WR group outside of Adams with the play of MVS yesterday. He did it not only on the long TD but he also did it on shorter routes.

No our roster was plenty fine enough to win it all this year. At some point you have to trust your players to just make the plays. You have to trust trust Kevin King doesn't get smoked 4 times. You have to trust that Davante Adams catches a ball he always catches. You have to trust Aaron Jones doesn't put it on the ground twice when he normally doesn't fumble. You have to trust Rodgers doesn't throw an interception when he normally doesn't throw interceptions. You have to trust Darnell Savage plays like a safety and doesn't allow the ball to be caught on his responsibility.

I know we love to obsess ourselves in making this "perfect" roster so we are ensured of not feeling pain in January but the roster we had this year was about as close as you're gonna get to that. At some point you just have to trust your players or else you will always for the life of you be mad at your GM. Sometimes...sometimes it's the player's fault when they just didn't make the play when the play was there to be made.

I also think Mike Pettine's call to end the half is unforgivable. To not have both safeties back for the long ball is inexcusable.

Yoop does have a point of not having a slot guy. How come we stopped using Austin as a slot/motion guy? Is he not as good as Tyler Irvin?

Tavon was a free agent in December for reason.

[Pugger]

Preston is an 8 mil dead cap, 8 mil saving if we cut him this off season. I’m torn whether that is worth it or not.

8 million today is relatively cheap as long as if we get a new DC and he doesn't have him cover TEs...

[go pak go]

you just refuse to deal with the fact that Lazard, MVS, Q, and Taylor are slow off the line, long stride type receivers, there aint a slot type receiver in the bunch, that cause the OL to have to block longer to give those receivers time to separate and thats if there ever able to do so.

we where better in every game Ervin played, Austin was never able to garner respect from a defense, and unless your motion man is able to do that, then pre snap motion doesn't have it's desired affect which is to freeze the defense for a split second and give the receivers that time to help beat the press, either your purposely being obtuse concerning this, or you simply neglect it's value through outright ignorance.

Yoop. I get having more better players makes you better. Just like I get having more money makes you richer. It's not hard to concede to that.

But football organizations also have fixed resources and fixed decisions. There wasn't a WR on the board on draft day that would have helped us. Only Higgins was available and he is the same type of WR we already have.

But having all said that, all NFL teams have strengths and weaknesses. Our offense and WR this year was not a weakness. You don't put up those kind of points and production when it's a weakness. We also got tremendous production from our WR group outside of Adams with the play of MVS yesterday. He did it not only on the long TD but he also did it on shorter routes.

No our roster was plenty fine enough to win it all this year. At some point you have to trust your players to just make the plays. You have to trust trust Kevin King doesn't get smoked 4 times. You have to trust that Davante Adams catches a ball he always catches. You have to trust Aaron Jones doesn't put it on the ground twice when he normally doesn't fumble. You have to trust Rodgers doesn't throw an interception when he normally doesn't throw interceptions. You have to trust Darnell Savage plays like a safety and doesn't allow the ball to be caught on his responsibility.

I know we love to obsess ourselves in making this "perfect" roster so we are ensured of not feeling pain in January but the roster we had this year was about as close as you're gonna get to that. At some point you just have to trust your players or else you will always for the life of you be mad at your GM. Sometimes...sometimes it's the player's fault when they just didn't make the play when the play was there to be made.

I also think Mike Pettine's call to end the half is unforgivable. To not have both safeties back for the long ball is inexcusable.

Yoop does have a point of not having a slot guy. How come we stopped using Austin as a slot/motion guy? Is he not as good as Tyler Irvin?

The thing about that argument is literally it could be, "if we had a better "X"...outside of DT1, CB1 or QB1....we would have won the game!

Not having a prototypical slot WR yesterday was not the reason for the loss. Not when there are 5 or 6 plays that were there for the making and we just didn't make them.

[lupedafiasco]

2014 & $%&# was worse because 1) the victory was just out there to grab and 2) our chances in the SB back then would have been better than now against KC. Just my opinion.

We would have clapped KC. Their defense sucks. Their offense sure is good but I thought we had would make enough plays with our secondary to beat them. I thought we matched up very well against the Chiefs. We would have beaten the Pats in 2014. Ultimately both games came down to boneheaded calls, not playing 2 deep before half, recognizing a fake FG was a possibility, and two just terrible players in $%&# and King.

[Yoop]

Yoop. I get having more better players makes you better. Just like I get having more money makes you richer. It's not hard to concede to that.

But football organizations also have fixed resources and fixed decisions. There wasn't a WR on the board on draft day that would have helped us. Only Higgins was available and he is the same type of WR we already have.

But having all said that, all NFL teams have strengths and weaknesses. Our offense and WR this year was not a weakness. You don't put up those kind of points and production when it's a weakness. We also got tremendous production from our WR group outside of Adams with the play of MVS yesterday. He did it not only on the long TD but he also did it on shorter routes.

No our roster was plenty fine enough to win it all this year. At some point you have to trust your players to just make the plays. You have to trust trust Kevin King doesn't get smoked 4 times. You have to trust that Davante Adams catches a ball he always catches. You have to trust Aaron Jones doesn't put it on the ground twice when he normally doesn't fumble. You have to trust Rodgers doesn't throw an interception when he normally doesn't throw interceptions. You have to trust Darnell Savage plays like a safety and doesn't allow the ball to be caught on his responsibility.

I know we love to obsess ourselves in making this "perfect" roster so we are ensured of not feeling pain in January but the roster we had this year was about as close as you're gonna get to that. At some point you just have to trust your players or else you will always for the life of you be mad at your GM. Sometimes...sometimes it's the player's fault when they just didn't make the play when the play was there to be made.

I also think Mike Pettine's call to end the half is unforgivable. To not have both safeties back for the long ball is inexcusable.

Yoop does have a point of not having a slot guy. How come we stopped using Austin as a slot/motion guy? Is he not as good as Tyler Irvin?

The thing about that argument is literally it could be, "if we had a better "X"...outside of DT1, CB1 or QB1....we would have won the game!

Not having a prototypical slot WR yesterday was not the reason for the loss. Not when there are 5 or 6 plays that were there for the making and we just didn't make them.

ya know what, I bet if you went back and watched this offense the first quarter of the season with Ervin playing the pre snap motion slot WR you would realize not having him has changed this offense, without him it probably wiped a doz plays right out of the play book.

so when you say it's not the reason we lost, I'd ask how could you know that? my point is his ability to sell that motion freezes DB's and lbers and helps almost every facet of the offense, blocking gets a advantage, receivers get a advantage, when you add it in to everything a defender has to think about it's one more obstical for them to deal with, and we only lost by 5 points, we absolutely could use more chain movers, Lafluers schemes are designed to take advantage of RO, but ya need players that fit those job requirements, heres a list of ours------------------------------------------