Buccaneers @ Packers - NFCC Playoff GDT - 1/24 - 2:05 CST

[go pak go]

I agree, not having a true slot guy was not the reason for the loss but it could have helped...

So could a better CB. So could a better defensive call prior to half. So could have an Adams catch in the EZ. So could have a better play on the ball by Savage. So could have a better ball tracking and catch by Will Redmond.

I mean I honestly put a slot WR waaaaaaay down on the list of what could have improved our chances on Sunday.

Our players making basic football plays and we are in the SB.

again your so stubborn you can't see the forest for the trees on this stuff.

in every game we ever play, and everyone we have played, players will screw up on average 3 to 5 plays that could change the outcome of games , and you know this, yet a quality motion guy/ slot receiver bails out the QB often enough to over come those poor plays, Cobb did it often for us, and NE and Brady won super bowls because they always had player like that, so when you say you put slot receiver way down on your list to help us win Sunday, it comes of as " even though I think Yoop might be right, I'll never say it"

Who was the slot who helped Brady on Sunday?

[packman114]

We had the top ranked offense in the league but we sucked because we didn't have a slot guy? We lost because MLF couldn't figure out how to beat Todd Bowles defense. He went away from our most successful style with no jet sweep options in both meetings. Well maybe a couple.

And not for nothing but do we ever try trick plays. Look at the Rams 2pt conversion play. Think maybe he could have dialed up something to use in the red zone since we were struggling.

[Pugger]

Everyone just talks about missed opportunites and that we could/should have won but Tampa did as much as we not play well overall. How many picks did Brady throw? How many times did their receiver not catch very catchable passes?

If Tampa did play well it would have been a blow-out like just one year ago. Do you see a pattern? We seem to be built for regular season and mediocre opponents - there we thrive - but not for the do-or-die games in January; we lack a**holes like Suh/JPP, we lack charismas like Sherman, we may have too many "nice" guys and too few "streetfighters".

The same vibe with Rodgers: he too often gets scared and disappears when good defenses are in his face (and probably that's the reason why he didn't run it on 3rd & 8, because in the back of his head his angst of Suh/JPP prevented him to do so), maybe he needs to condition himself more to enjoy the pain & gain especially in these type of games, Eli Manning comes to mind who wasn't HOF, but who did thrive exactly in the kind of games where I feel Rodgers trembles a bit.

So maybe we should draft/get more streetfighter-types of guys that may cause problems with their attitude but who can also solve problems thru their attitude?

Some truth in this theories or a long shot?

From all accounts we drafted a mauler in G Simon Stepaniak. Now we need to get a guy with that mindset to play next to Kenny Clark.

[Pugger]

My thoughts on the game and what some have commented on.

Rodgers may have been able to run on the late 3rd down play. However, in case you haven't noticed, he is nowhere near as fast as he used to be. That is why DL catch him often now. He knows this fact and is much more selective as to when he runs. Given Tampa's team speed, I have my doubts on him making it and he may have too. The discussion I have seen here about getting rid of Rodgers is some of the stupidest crapola I have ever read. Rodgers does make mistakes, but he is one of the best QBs I have ever seen (and I have been around a while). You ride this guy for as long as you can because we probably won't see a QB as talented as him in a very long time. You don't let someone like him get away, period!

Also, the constant talk about Rodgers should have thrown to someone who was open but threw elsewhere, such as with Adams on one play. How the hell does anyone else know what he saw or didn't see. Just because you saw it, usually on replay, doesn't mean he did. You don't have a clue on this, so stop using this narrative.

The OL was horrible throughout the game, especially Turner and Wagner. The running game wasn't doing much except for a few outside runs and the pass protection was atrocious. There were many instances of poor performance on plays by several players during the game, but that is actually pretty normal.

The biggest issue to me was coaching. We've talked about the TD on the last play of the half a lot, as it was an epic fail. Pettine's failure to find a way to constantly put Brady under pressure astounds me. When he was under pressure he constantly threw the ball up for grabs (a terrible performance by Brady IMO). Brady is pretty much a statue now and was given way too much time far too often. Watching KC put relentless pressure on a QB who is very mobile, but made things impossible for him was exactly what the Packers should have done.

MLF also failed miserably. The lack of a running game to take advantage of TB's overpursuit and the lack of consistently using quick passing routes was very poor planning. His going for two so early and thus chasing points was not a real good choice. The mind-numbing decision to kick the FG at the end was the worst decision I have seen by a Packer coach in a long time. He came up small in a very big game. He is young and hopefully he learns from his mistakes. But this might be the best chance he ever has to win a Super Bowl. I remember what life was like after Lombardi left and how difficult it was to face the idea we wouldn't be winning championships all the time anymore.

[Pugger]

whats stupid crap Willie is week after week, game after game the same Rodgers haters rush in a rag on Rodgers, and rarely mention the faults of other players that are far worse, such as Turner or Wagner, or Q's 2 point duster, or Adams, or Jones fumbles, etc, nope, instead It's the 37 yr old Rodgers not running it in, as though the several Tampa players watching wouldn't beat him to the EZ, or Rodgers not seeing a open player some where, nah just easier to lay all the blame on Rodgers.

my point was if they hate Rodgers so much maybe they like Love more.

People talk about that play because it was not a clear-cut thing, so it's interesting to talk about.

Both of Jones' fumbles were so OBVIOUSLY Jones' fault, there's nothing to talk about. He was terrible. Both fumbles were way worse than anything AR did in whole game. Literally EVERYONE has said Turner was putrid, Wagner was real bad, too. EVERYONE has cursed King to the depths of hells. Redmond sucked like a Hoover. Everyone agrees EQ dropped the 2-pointer. Clearly EQ's fault. Many others' mistakes have been pointed out. Do you not see any of those criticisms?

Consensus is AR had a good game, but not a perfect game. Do you agree with that, or do you claim AR played perfectly and did EVERYTHING right?

Saying AR had a couple of bad plays is not the same as putting all or majority of the blame on him for the loss. AR could've played even better, but it was the rest of the team and coaches that lost this one for us. But if you think everyone should self-censor and never ever talk about any of AR's bad plays, you're fighting against windmills. In fact, you bringing this up over and over again makes AR look worse than what people actually think of him.

On Jones' first fumble the defender's shoulder hit the ball just right and it popped out. On the second one he got blown up so well he got hurt and never returned to the game. I think we are being a tad severe towards him.

[Pugger]

There absolutely is equity built in this stuff. It's why Adams is being let off the hook too, which I disagree with honestly. I can't imagine these boards if it was 83 who dropped that ball in the endzone and then couldn't get his feet set 2 plays later but because it was 17....the hate and vitriol are less.

To some extent I understand. He has built up equity. To another extent I really don't get it. Playoffs is times for your stars to show up. And Adams did not.

One thing that can't be denied is Brady and his teams almost always show up. Even if it doesn't look like they did.

Bradys team showed up and were better than the packers at every position group but QB.

I don't think I can get behind that.

Honestly when I look at this game, I think the Packers played fine for the exception of our liabilities were really, really, really, really bad.

Kevin King not only played the worst game of his career, but rivaled the worst performance of any Packer player I can remember in a long time. Chandon Sullivan also played really, really, really bad.

Finally we had Will Redmond as our single top safety. what. the. f*ck.

I mean that's you difference. Our liabilities were just way worse. The Bucs got to steal at minimum one...if not two possessions because of our complete inadequate play by Kevin King and Chandon Sullivan.

Seriously? Our pass rushers gave Brady all day long most of the time. We allowed them to convert on 3rd down at a ridiculous rate. The only DB who played decently was Alexander. Our OL was a mess. Both tackles were spinning like a top. Our RBs ran into a brick wall. Our WRs dropped passes outside of MVS (!!). Rodgers wasn't perfect but if the only way we win in the post season is if he has to be god-like we are going to continue to be disappointed. Nobody is perfect, including Brady.

[go pak go]

Bradys team showed up and were better than the packers at every position group but QB.

I don't think I can get behind that.

Honestly when I look at this game, I think the Packers played fine for the exception of our liabilities were really, really, really, really bad.

Kevin King not only played the worst game of his career, but rivaled the worst performance of any Packer player I can remember in a long time. Chandon Sullivan also played really, really, really bad.

Finally we had Will Redmond as our single top safety. what. the. f*ck.

I mean that's you difference. Our liabilities were just way worse. The Bucs got to steal at minimum one...if not two possessions because of our complete inadequate play by Kevin King and Chandon Sullivan.

Seriously? Our pass rushers gave Brady all day long most of the time. We allowed them to convert on 3rd down at a ridiculous rate. The only DB who played decently was Alexander. Our OL was a mess. Both tackles were spinning like a top. Our RBs ran into a brick wall. Our WRs dropped passes outside of MVS (!!). Rodgers wasn't perfect but if the only way we win in the post season is if he has to be god-like we are going to continue to be disappointed. Nobody is perfect, including Brady.

The only thing of real relevance in this post was the "allowed the Bucs to convert on 3rd down at a ridiculous rate" which again leads back to my point of our liabilities were just really, really bad. Our primary liability was our DBs who again were REALLY, REALLY bad. Just stopping 1 of their 5 3rd and 8 or longer completions and the Packers win the game.

I wish our tackles held up better but I didn't expect them to. Our run game was actually decent with Dillon we just needed to get him in the game more which again we would have if we had taken control of the game. I view this as MLF's largest error. He needed to put Dillon in the game in the 4th quarter and give him the ball and he simply did not do it.

Again. Our liabilities were really, really bad. We honestly win this game quite convincingly if our liabilities weren't really, really bad.

[go pak go]

The whole "god mode" Rodgers thing comes up a lot and it got me thinking how much have seen that in Rodgers's career in the postseason?

I count 3 games.

2nd Half vs AZ in 2009 Wildcard.
Atlanta 2010 Divisional
2016 Dallas Divisional

Am I missing any? I think he was pretty damned close to being it in the SB too and wouldn't argue putting that game in there.

[Yoop]

So could a better CB. So could a better defensive call prior to half. So could have an Adams catch in the EZ. So could have a better play on the ball by Savage. So could have a better ball tracking and catch by Will Redmond.

I mean I honestly put a slot WR waaaaaaay down on the list of what could have improved our chances on Sunday.

Our players making basic football plays and we are in the SB.

again your so stubborn you can't see the forest for the trees on this stuff.

in every game we ever play, and everyone we have played, players will screw up on average 3 to 5 plays that could change the outcome of games , and you know this, yet a quality motion guy/ slot receiver bails out the QB often enough to over come those poor plays, Cobb did it often for us, and NE and Brady won super bowls because they always had player like that, so when you say you put slot receiver way down on your list to help us win Sunday, it comes of as " even though I think Yoop might be right, I'll never say it"

Who was the slot who helped Brady on Sunday?

he didn't need a slot guy, he had 3 other receivers and all day long to throw to them, Rodgers had neither.

go look at what Cobb and Nelson did in 2014, 2500 yrds between them.

[go pak go]

again your so stubborn you can't see the forest for the trees on this stuff.

in every game we ever play, and everyone we have played, players will screw up on average 3 to 5 plays that could change the outcome of games , and you know this, yet a quality motion guy/ slot receiver bails out the QB often enough to over come those poor plays, Cobb did it often for us, and NE and Brady won super bowls because they always had player like that, so when you say you put slot receiver way down on your list to help us win Sunday, it comes of as " even though I think Yoop might be right, I'll never say it"

Who was the slot who helped Brady on Sunday?

he didn't need a slot guy, he had 3 other receivers and all day long to throw to them, Rodgers had neither.

go look at what Cobb and Nelson did in 2014, 2500 yrds between them.

Yeah that was a great season. Cobb's best by far. 2012 he had a good season too. Lot of other seasons he underperformed.

And what those years proved at that time again was the team let Rodgers down because of lack of defense or lack of RB. That's what chasing "holes" and saying "one position away does" it just makes the tune change each year what great ineptitude hole the team has each year.

And it's literally what we have talked about on this board each year the last decade. And like position coveting is fun. I do it too. But there is a lot more that goes into it than if we had "X" because really that X could be a lot of players if that player plays well.

If that X was Gary. We win.
If that X was King. We win.
If that X was Savage. We win.
If that X was Jones. We win.
If that X was Adams. We win.
If that X was Turner/Wagner. We win.

That's what I mean. We just needed one other player/postitional group to step up whether it was a slot or whether it was the litany above.

I mean MN fans do "one player away from the SB" talk every year.

[Yoop]

I don't think I can get behind that.

Honestly when I look at this game, I think the Packers played fine for the exception of our liabilities were really, really, really, really bad.

Kevin King not only played the worst game of his career, but rivaled the worst performance of any Packer player I can remember in a long time. Chandon Sullivan also played really, really, really bad.

Finally we had Will Redmond as our single top safety. what. the. f*ck.

I mean that's you difference. Our liabilities were just way worse. The Bucs got to steal at minimum one...if not two possessions because of our complete inadequate play by Kevin King and Chandon Sullivan.

Seriously? Our pass rushers gave Brady all day long most of the time. We allowed them to convert on 3rd down at a ridiculous rate. The only DB who played decently was Alexander. Our OL was a mess. Both tackles were spinning like a top. Our RBs ran into a brick wall. Our WRs dropped passes outside of MVS (!!). Rodgers wasn't perfect but if the only way we win in the post season is if he has to be god-like we are going to continue to be disappointed. Nobody is perfect, including Brady.

The only thing of real relevance in this post was the "allowed the Bucs to convert on 3rd down at a ridiculous rate" which again leads back to my point of our liabilities were just really, really bad. Our primary liability was our DBs who again were REALLY, REALLY bad. Just stopping 1 of their 5 3rd and 8 or longer completions and the Packers win the game.

I wish our tackles held up better but I didn't expect them to. Our run game was actually decent with Dillon we just needed to get him in the game more which again we would have if we had taken control of the game. I view this as MLF's largest error. He needed to put Dillon in the game in the 4th quarter and give him the ball and he simply did not do it.

Again. Our liabilities were really, really bad. We honestly win this game quite convincingly if our liabilities weren't really, really bad.

you know what they say about excuses?

Pettine needed to dial up better rush packages, he didn't, and that left the DB's hanging in the wind, easy to say the DB's sucked, not many DB's can hold coverage for a 5 count.

and the run had hardly worked well enough to move the chains all game, and when your 2 scores down who runs the ball, if Lafluer would have tried and failed people would be all over him for that, ya have to put the game in the hands of the HOF QB, yet the only receiver not to drop a pass was MVS, as Lupe said, the only offensive players that showed up to play where Rodgers and MVS, now obviously thats not quite true, however they made the least mistakes (maybe Dillon too)

[Drj820]

Cowturd pretty much nailed it on the team in one aspect...when things are going well we are loose and fun and kicking butt.

When we face adversity we get tight. We revert back to old ways. It doesn’t look so fun and easy anymore. We forget all the extra stuff we do to make things tough on defenses. Rodgers tries to throw the ball out of a hole and it becomes 4th down quickly. We try to get scores back instantly with passes, going for 2, and things like that instead of having patience and sticking to the plan.

The Bucs had people who have gotten the job done many times. Brady, Gronk, JPP. Real leaders.

We looked like we had never won a game like that before, oh and very few of our players ever had. Including our coach who saw the 28-3 collapse first hand in the sb.

We get tight in these games. It cost us.

I also think even tho Rodgers is an amazing talent. This trait is part of who he is and the team feeds off of it. When we are up and he is a happy, everyone is loose and happy. When he gets hit a lot, isn’t happy, we are down...he tightens up and tries to get it all back on one play..and the team reflects his energy.

I love 12, and he improved his mood a lot this year, and he is great...but there is a reason he lost this game and a guy like Brady always wins that type of game...Rodgers can change a play to any play he wants..it was his a** and legacy that was on the line in the 4th quarter Sunday, and he failed to get the job done.

It isn’t fair, people can deny it, but wins become a qb stat and his style and reaction to adversity does not overcome these moments as often as other all time greats have.

Still...all respect to 12, thankful for him, and he had a great year. I just make the point that the tightness of the team when things aren’t going well, is a reflection of him, and a vibe the team is getting from him.

[Yoop]

Who was the slot who helped Brady on Sunday?

he didn't need a slot guy, he had 3 other receivers and all day long to throw to them, Rodgers had neither.

go look at what Cobb and Nelson did in 2014, 2500 yrds between them.

Yeah that was a great season. Cobb's best by far. 2012 he had a good season too. Lot of other seasons he underperformed.

And what those years proved at that time again was the team let Rodgers down because of lack of defense or lack of RB. That's what chasing "holes" and saying "one position away does" it just makes the tune change each year what great ineptitude hole the team has each year.

And it's literally what we have talked about on this board each year the last decade. And like position coveting is fun. I do it too. But there is a lot more that goes into it than if we had "X" because really that X could be a lot of players if that player plays well.

If that X was Gary. We win.
If that X was King. We win.
If that X was Savage. We win.
If that X was Jones. We win.
If that X was Adams. We win.
If that X was Turner/Wagner. We win.

That's what I mean. We just needed one other player/postitional group to step up whether it was a slot or whether it was the litany above.

I mean MN fans do "one player away from the SB" talk every year.

again you keep neglecting Lafluers schemes and how a slot type player fits it, and also how a slot receiver fits a uptempo scheme, it's great when Rodgers has the time to throw to guys like Scantling, Taylor Q and Lazard, but against a great pass rush there is no time to wait on those guys to clear

each year there are needy positions to fix, ever since Cobb left we've had a hole at the slot, imho a key position in the schemes we now use, Ervin was a O K fit there, a more athletic player, a bit more size would be much better.

[Pckfn23]

A pretty good summation of what happened:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... on-rodgers

[go pak go]

he didn't need a slot guy, he had 3 other receivers and all day long to throw to them, Rodgers had neither.

go look at what Cobb and Nelson did in 2014, 2500 yrds between them.

Yeah that was a great season. Cobb's best by far. 2012 he had a good season too. Lot of other seasons he underperformed.

And what those years proved at that time again was the team let Rodgers down because of lack of defense or lack of RB. That's what chasing "holes" and saying "one position away does" it just makes the tune change each year what great ineptitude hole the team has each year.

And it's literally what we have talked about on this board each year the last decade. And like position coveting is fun. I do it too. But there is a lot more that goes into it than if we had "X" because really that X could be a lot of players if that player plays well.

If that X was Gary. We win.
If that X was King. We win.
If that X was Savage. We win.
If that X was Jones. We win.
If that X was Adams. We win.
If that X was Turner/Wagner. We win.

That's what I mean. We just needed one other player/postitional group to step up whether it was a slot or whether it was the litany above.

I mean MN fans do "one player away from the SB" talk every year.

again you keep neglecting Lafluers schemes and how a slot type player fits it, and also how a slot receiver fits a uptempo scheme, it's great when Rodgers has the time to throw to guys like Scantling, Taylor Q and Lazard, but against a great pass rush there is no time to wait on those guys to clear

each year there are needy positions to fix, ever since Cobb left we've had a hole at the slot, imho a key position in the schemes we now use, Ervin was a O K fit there, a more athletic player, a bit more size would be much better.

If the slot player was the magic key to MLF's offense....maybe he would have asked Brian for one last year?

I mean if it's the pentullum of all positions for GB...I don't know. Slots are generally cheaper to find. Probably could have done it.

I'm not arguing that having a slot would be nice. I just think having great players period is nice. As long as those great players play well. Which ours outside of Clark and Jairer and to an extent Rodgers...did not.

[Drj820]

he didn't need a slot guy, he had 3 other receivers and all day long to throw to them, Rodgers had neither.

go look at what Cobb and Nelson did in 2014, 2500 yrds between them.

Yeah that was a great season. Cobb's best by far. 2012 he had a good season too. Lot of other seasons he underperformed.

And what those years proved at that time again was the team let Rodgers down because of lack of defense or lack of RB. That's what chasing "holes" and saying "one position away does" it just makes the tune change each year what great ineptitude hole the team has each year.

And it's literally what we have talked about on this board each year the last decade. And like position coveting is fun. I do it too. But there is a lot more that goes into it than if we had "X" because really that X could be a lot of players if that player plays well.

If that X was Gary. We win.
If that X was King. We win.
If that X was Savage. We win.
If that X was Jones. We win.
If that X was Adams. We win.
If that X was Turner/Wagner. We win.

That's what I mean. We just needed one other player/postitional group to step up whether it was a slot or whether it was the litany above.

I mean MN fans do "one player away from the SB" talk every year.

again you keep neglecting Lafluers schemes and how a slot type player fits it, and also how a slot receiver fits a uptempo scheme, it's great when Rodgers has the time to throw to guys like Scantling, Taylor Q and Lazard, but against a great pass rush there is no time to wait on those guys to clear

each year there are needy positions to fix, ever since Cobb left we've had a hole at the slot, imho a key position in the schemes we now use, Ervin was a O K fit there, a more athletic player, a bit more size would be much better.

Yoop a slot player might be nice, but the O was totally fine all year. It was historically good in many aspects. We just forgot to do all the cool stuff when it was hard against a good team. We abandoned who we were, got tight. It was playcalling, execution, and coaching.

The talent was plenty to handle the job. It was all year. Run the ball in the 4th a little more with our SECOND round draft pick that got three carries and this is a different game. Make the defense think about him instead of just pinning their ears back to attack Wagner and Turner who were hardly given any help all day.

It was failure on many fronts, talent not being one of them this time around for the offense.

[Yoop]

Cowturd pretty much nailed it on the team in one aspect...when things are going well we are loose and fun and kicking butt.

When we face adversity we get tight. We revert back to old ways. It doesn’t look so fun and easy anymore. We forget all the extra stuff we do to make things tough on defenses. Rodgers tries to throw the ball out of a hole and it becomes 4th down quickly. We try to get scores back instantly with passes, going for 2, and things like that instead of having patience and sticking to the plan.

The Bucs had people who have gotten the job done many times. Brady, Gronk, JPP. Real leaders.

We looked like we had never won a game like that before, oh and very few of our players ever had. Including our coach who saw the 28-3 collapse first hand in the sb.

We get tight in these games. It cost us.

I also think even tho Rodgers is an amazing talent. This trait is part of who he is and the team feeds off of it. When we are up and he is a happy, everyone is loose and happy. When he gets hit a lot, isn’t happy, we are down...he tightens up and tries to get it all back on one play..and the team reflects his energy.

I love 12, and he improved his mood a lot this year, and he is great...but there is a reason he lost this game and a guy like Brady always wins that type of game...Rodgers can change a play to any play he wants..it was his a** and legacy that was on the line in the 4th quarter Sunday, and he failed to get the job done.

It isn’t fair, people can deny it, but wins become a qb stat and his style and reaction to adversity does not overcome these moments as often as other all time greats have.

Still...all respect to 12, thankful for him, and he had a great year. I just make the point that the tightness of the team when things aren’t going well, is a reflection of him, and a vibe the team is getting from him.

what do they say, experience is the mother of retention, I tend to agree, with this game anyway, we looked tight as the G string on a banjo right outta the gate, no swagger, to much pre game hype, we gotta win this for Rodgers stuff was spouted all week, yep take all that pressure away and everyone plays better.

[go pak go]

A pretty good summation of what happened:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... on-rodgers

This article is horse crap. How dare they attack my HEROS. They should look into themselves and know that our HEROS would have played better if we had a better supporting cast.

Our front office pissed it all away.

[Drj820]

I get sicker and sicker thinking about how we drafted a running back in the second round (very high), our top rb leaves the game...the second round pick provides a spark and moves the pile, catches a pass for a first down, and averages over 5 yards per carry..and we give the guy THREE carries.

Criminal. Barf. Ughhh

Probably my third post about this, can’t get over it

[go pak go]

I get sicker and sicker thinking about how we drafted a running back in the second round (very high), our top rb leaves the game...the second round pick provides a spark and moves the pile, catches a pass for a first down, and averages over 5 yards per carry..and we give the guy THREE carries.

Criminal. Barf. Ughhh

Probably my third post about this, can’t get over it

Yeah MLF was supposed to be the fresh air around this. But he was awfully like MM on Sunday.

My hope is he learns from it. He coached a very poor game.