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Finally, I really don't think we ever had a shot for Jefferson outside of really spending a lot. MN had WAAAAY more draft capital than we had and if they really liked him....they would have outbid us because it was easy for them to do so.
The issue with WR is they just went BAM off the board. BAM off the board. BAM off the board. After Pick 20, Reagor, Jefferson, and Aiyuck were all on the board. Things honestly looked up for us on getting a guy we wanted. And then 3 of them go in 5 picks.
how would Minny even know if we moved up in front of them for any of these 3 receivers, you snooze and you lose, and there where 4 or 5 in the next two rounds we could have taken, nada, cripes almost the entire football world agree's with me, even TJ Lang shakes his head at the Love pick, and somehow I'am a idiot and narrow minded for seeing this his way.
There is a chance Minny wouldn't know we are talking to the Jaguars.
There is also a chance the Jaguars call MN and say, "GB wants to move up from 30 to 20 to likely take Jefferson. They are offering a 3 and 4....you offer a 4 to move up two spots and Jefferson is yours"
I'm just saying that wouldn't shock me if that stuff happens. And when you are negotiating and have less capital to play with...a lot more has to align for you to win that deal.
The WRs taken after Aiyuck were fine WRs. But they were not the WR types we wanted on this board. They were in the similar mold of WR that we have already on the roster.
as I said there where 3, if we wanted we could have gotten one of em, and Van Jefferson and several others would have fit pretty well, what do I have to do go and drag up all those receivers again lol heck look at Funchess, Ted picked him up and we already had 3 bean polers on the roster.
It's a done deal now, but we still have a need for a slot receiver, and as Lupe and others have said, he would be a seasoned vet now had we taken one last year, that should not be discounted in this conversation.
It's a done deal now, but we still have a need for a slot receiver, and as Lupe and others have said, he would be a seasoned vet now had we taken one last year, that should not be discounted in this conversation.
It should be discounted in this conversation because I thought the conversation was still about what we needed to do to beat Tampa Bay in 2020. If not, then yes, it's a fair point. Our 2021 outlook would be better if we had a guy in place. But, I do think our group and specific need/s, do make it more palatable for a rookie to come in and produce. Slot WR, RB/WR Hybrid, those guys can contribute from Day 1 if you ask them to play a specific role which I assume we would with Adams, Lazard, and MVS already in place.
WR is not the reason why we, the #1 scoring offense in the league, lost to Tampa or any of our regular-season losses.
Could another good WR have helped? I mean, sure, in the sense that another good player at pretty much any position would theoretically "help."
Gary helped quite a bit during the season, much to the haters' chagrin, despite EDGE not being an ostensible "need" when taken. He may even help by letting us offload Preston's contract to keep someone else who is more of a difference-maker (for the record: I would bring him back, he's solid and the price is bearable for another year, but he should be a clear #3 to Z and Gary).
CB is the one position where I would concede that, yes, if we had better addressed this during the offseason last year, we likely would have made it to the big dance. Almost everything else... not really.
But then, who knows? Gute went out and got Tramon Williams, yet the coaches played Redmond and a possibly-hurt Kevin King.
Last edited by Labrev on 03 Feb 2021 10:42, edited 1 time in total.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
It's a done deal now, but we still have a need for a slot receiver, and as Lupe and others have said, he would be a seasoned vet now had we taken one last year, that should not be discounted in this conversation.
It should be discounted in this conversation because I thought the conversation was still about what we needed to do to beat Tampa Bay in 2020. If not, then yes, it's a fair point. Our 2021 outlook would be better if we had a guy in place. But, I do think our group and specific need/s, do make it more palatable for a rookie to come in and produce. Slot WR, RB/WR Hybrid, those guys can contribute from Day 1 if you ask them to play a specific role which I assume we would with Adams, Lazard, and MVS already in place.
not sure why you would even consider that a slot receiver wouldn't have made a difference against Tampa, seriously why anyone would think just because we had the most potent offense in the league translates to no way anyone could improve it, that kind of thinking is so benign, I would never agree to thinking like that NCF, not ever, thats not gray area thinking Buddy, thats insanity
how would Minny even know if we moved up in front of them for any of these 3 receivers, you snooze and you lose, and there where 4 or 5 in the next two rounds we could have taken, nada, cripes almost the entire football world agree's with me, even TJ Lang shakes his head at the Love pick, and somehow I'am a idiot and narrow minded for seeing this his way.
There is a chance Minny wouldn't know we are talking to the Jaguars.
There is also a chance the Jaguars call MN and say, "GB wants to move up from 30 to 20 to likely take Jefferson. They are offering a 3 and 4....you offer a 4 to move up two spots and Jefferson is yours"
I'm just saying that wouldn't shock me if that stuff happens. And when you are negotiating and have less capital to play with...a lot more has to align for you to win that deal.
The WRs taken after Aiyuck were fine WRs. But they were not the WR types we wanted on this board. They were in the similar mold of WR that we have already on the roster.
as I said there where 3, if we wanted we could have gotten one of em, and Van Jefferson and several others would have fit pretty well, what do I have to do go and drag up all those receivers again lol heck look at Funchess, Ted picked him up and we already had 3 bean polers on the roster.
It's a done deal now, but we still have a need for a slot receiver, and as Lupe and others have said, he would be a seasoned vet now had we taken one last year, that should not be discounted in this conversation.
Yeah I liked Van Jefferson and Tyler Johnson a lot. Missing on Johnson really hurt because we could have had him with a 4th but we used it for Love.
I really thought Tyler Johnson in Rd 4 was fantastic value.
It's a done deal now, but we still have a need for a slot receiver, and as Lupe and others have said, he would be a seasoned vet now had we taken one last year, that should not be discounted in this conversation.
It should be discounted in this conversation because I thought the conversation was still about what we needed to do to beat Tampa Bay in 2020. If not, then yes, it's a fair point. Our 2021 outlook would be better if we had a guy in place. But, I do think our group and specific need/s, do make it more palatable for a rookie to come in and produce. Slot WR, RB/WR Hybrid, those guys can contribute from Day 1 if you ask them to play a specific role which I assume we would with Adams, Lazard, and MVS already in place.
not sure why you would even consider that a slot receiver wouldn't have made a difference against Tampa, seriously why anyone would think just because we had the most potent offense in the league translates to no way anyone could improve it, that kind of thinking is so benign, I would never agree to thinking like that NCF, not ever, thats not gray area thinking Buddy, thats insanity
I'm not going to say a slot wouldn't have made a difference.
But I'm also not going to give a pass to the current squad of 53 players we had who had the opportunity to win a game and simply didn't. The onus of the blame is a lot heavier on the coaches and players than it was on the GM for not supplying a slot WR.
On offense we have 2 turnovers in 4 plays giving the Bucs the ball in our territory. We also have 6 plays inside the 10 with a few scoring opportunities, which JT O'Sullivan pointed out in his film review and we did not execute.
On defense we uncharacteristically give up 3 plays over the top which honestly our defense never allowed all year. If there was one thing our defense was good at in 2020, it was not getting beat over the top and yet it happened 3 times in 2 quarters. Absolutely maddening.
Could another good WR have helped? I mean, sure, in the sense that another good player at pretty much any position would theoretically "help."
Read this, understand it, move on to 2021.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
There is a chance Minny wouldn't know we are talking to the Jaguars.
There is also a chance the Jaguars call MN and say, "GB wants to move up from 30 to 20 to likely take Jefferson. They are offering a 3 and 4....you offer a 4 to move up two spots and Jefferson is yours"
I'm just saying that wouldn't shock me if that stuff happens. And when you are negotiating and have less capital to play with...a lot more has to align for you to win that deal.
The WRs taken after Aiyuck were fine WRs. But they were not the WR types we wanted on this board. They were in the similar mold of WR that we have already on the roster.
as I said there where 3, if we wanted we could have gotten one of em, and Van Jefferson and several others would have fit pretty well, what do I have to do go and drag up all those receivers again lol heck look at Funchess, Ted picked him up and we already had 3 bean polers on the roster.
It's a done deal now, but we still have a need for a slot receiver, and as Lupe and others have said, he would be a seasoned vet now had we taken one last year, that should not be discounted in this conversation.
Yeah I liked Van Jefferson and Tyler Johnson a lot. Missing on Johnson really hurt because we could have had him with a 4th but we used it for Love.
I really thought Tyler Johnson in Rd 4 was fantastic value.
I hardly scouted out either besides just a few vids and draft sites impressions, your right I think they would have fit just fine, again the first round pick (who's name we all know, and I dont hate ) and compensation took away the chance to draft one of them.
when people say not having a slot guy isn't the reason we lost to Tampa, thats true, but it didn't help us beat them either, like I said, it boggles the mind why anyone would discount the ability of ONE player to make a difference like that, when so often thats all it takes to win a football game, actually most of the time thats how games get won.
I'd like a real silver dollar from anyone here that that saw those two returnes coming that won the 96 SB, or Starks pounding the pig to seal the deal in 010, all it takes is one player.
It should be discounted in this conversation because I thought the conversation was still about what we needed to do to beat Tampa Bay in 2020. If not, then yes, it's a fair point. Our 2021 outlook would be better if we had a guy in place. But, I do think our group and specific need/s, do make it more palatable for a rookie to come in and produce. Slot WR, RB/WR Hybrid, those guys can contribute from Day 1 if you ask them to play a specific role which I assume we would with Adams, Lazard, and MVS already in place.
not sure why you would even consider that a slot receiver wouldn't have made a difference against Tampa, seriously why anyone would think just because we had the most potent offense in the league translates to no way anyone could improve it, that kind of thinking is so benign, I would never agree to thinking like that NCF, not ever, thats not gray area thinking Buddy, thats insanity
I'm not going to say a slot wouldn't have made a difference.
But I'm also not going to give a pass to the current squad of 53 players we had who had the opportunity to win a game and simply didn't. The onus of the blame is a lot heavier on the coaches and players than it was on the GM for not supplying a slot WR.
On offense we have 2 turnovers in 4 plays giving the Bucs the ball in our territory. We also have 6 plays inside the 10 with a few scoring opportunities, which JT O'Sullivan pointed out in his film review and we did not execute.
On defense we uncharacteristically give up 3 plays over the top which honestly our defense never allowed all year. If there was one thing our defense was good at in 2020, it was not getting beat over the top and yet it happened 3 times in 2 quarters. Absolutely maddening.
so then with all this stuff going wrong a slot receiver would have had no chance to execute well enough to score on anyone of those 9 plays in the red zone to end the game, sure thats possible, but it's not as though our best red zone players out numbered the coverage, you guys are just moving the goal posts now.
We don't even have to invent scenarios that many have helped us win the NFCCG. We have them in reality. Adams catches the TD. Jones doesn't fumble. King doesn't get burnt before half. Redmond makes the INT. Rodgers doesn't throw the INT. Etc....
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I hardly scouted out either besides just a few vids and draft sites impressions, your right I think they would have fit just fine, again the first round pick (who's name we all know, and I dont hate ) and compensation took away the chance to draft one of them.
Let me be on the record and state I would have been very disappointed if we had taken either Jefferson or Johnson with pick 29 in the 2020 draft. They were absolutely a reach for us to get outside of us getting Johnson with a 4th rounder.
I also wouldn't have understood and would have been bummed with picking either Higgins or Pittman with the 29th pick because they were the same type of player we already have and were Rd 2 graded players.
So once again we are at a spot where the WRs just honestly didn't fall our way on the board at all. The 1st round players we wanted went in the low 20's.
The 2nd/3rd round players we wanted were all gone by our 2nd pick. Yes there were a lot of WRs this year...but every team knew and WRs were taken like crazy from pick 20 to pick 59.
And then you're out of the top 100 players of WRs and at that point like Gute said....MVS, Lazard, Funchess and Q are better than any of the outside 100 players we could have drafted and based on those slop fest of WRs contributing to the #1 offense in the league...I can't say I disagree with that.
so then with all this stuff going wrong a slot receiver would have had no chance to execute well enough to score on anyone of those 9 plays in the red zone to end the game, sure thats possible, but it's not as though our best red zone players out numbered the coverage, you guys are just moving the goal posts now.
They didn't need to. The plays were there. Outnumbering their coverage would not have done anything.
1. Rodgers throws outside to Adams and Adams can't catch it. No extra slot would have changed the outcome of that play.
2. Rodgers throws to Adams on a poorly executed play. Also doesn't' see Lazard Wide Open. Two options. Wrong timing on the throw and route and failure to see Option #2 is wide open. Again no extra slot would have changed the outcome of that play.
3. Rodgers and Lazard have a miscommunication and Lazard doesn't do the right route on an RPO. An extra slot doesn't change the outcome of that play. Especially a rookie. It was communication.
4. Lazard doesn't play he WR screen for Adams properly. Again just execution and not running the right play. A rookie slot wouldn't have done anything as that was the designed play.
5. Rodgers doesn't throw to Adams at the right time and also doesn't run. Maybe another option would have helped here.
The difference here is the forum at large, after voicing collective displeasure, have MOVED ON. Unlike you. And now, you've twisted our moving on in your own mind as supporting the pick and being homers. FFS nothing is further from the truth.
Take a look back at that entire thread and listen to the opinions given. There was WIDE support for a WR, it just didn't fall the way anybody expected, Gute included. Nobody, including you, saw it coming. It happens.
Enough with this "me against the forum from the beginning" nonsense. The WR position was the overwhelming choice for this forum.. It didn't play out right.. You've refused to accept what happened and that is the only thing you've continually argued. It's gotten beyond old.
when people say not having a slot guy isn't the reason we lost to Tampa, thats true, but it didn't help us beat them either, like I said, it boggles the mind why anyone would discount the ability of ONE player to make a difference like that, when so often thats all it takes to win a football game, actually most of the time thats how games get won.
Point is, we WERE good enough to win that game with what we had on the roster. What we had been doing all year would have been good enough to win the game.
There's no way to prepare for "Well, if we suck in a critical game/time, we need to have [X] on our roster to save the day." That's not a thing you can be ready and prepare for. At the end of the day, the GM needs to trust that the playoff-caliber roster he put together to come through.
Last edited by Labrev on 03 Feb 2021 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
I remember years ago seeing some coach (I wanna say Cowher for the Steelers) talking to his team in the locker room after a win. They had just beaten a team (wanna say the Titans) who Sports Illustrated said would be the best team in the league that year. He held up the magazine and the players had a good laugh.
I will always remember what the coach said next, something to the effect of: ~'You know what? Maybe they are [the best team in the league]! ... But not today.'
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
The difference here is the forum at large, after voicing collective displeasure, have MOVED ON. Unlike you. And now, you've twisted our moving on in your own mind as supporting the pick and being homers. FFS nothing is further from the truth.
Yep. I didn't like the pick, either... but, I loved the prospect (and still do). Plus, I feel like we already learned our lesson with hero-worshipping Favre. Rodgers came in and life went on... and brilliantly so. Maybe the same thing happens, maybe it doesn't, but you can better believe I am rooting for Love if and when he gets his chance. WTF wouldn't you?
The difference here is the forum at large, after voicing collective displeasure, have MOVED ON. Unlike you. And now, you've twisted our moving on in your own mind as supporting the pick and being homers. FFS nothing is further from the truth.
Yep. I didn't like the pick, either... but, I loved the prospect (and still do). Plus, I feel like we already learned our lesson with hero-worshipping Favre. Rodgers came in and life went on... and brilliantly so. Maybe the same thing happens, maybe it doesn't, but you can better believe I am rooting for Love if and when he gets his chance. WTF wouldn't you?
I hate the Love pick, so naturally that means I wont root for him of course I'll root for him, that has nothing to do with any of this, I rooted for Gary all year to, obviously it's possible to hate the pick, but still like the player.
we'll have to agree to disagree on this, for one I can't buy in that Guty was unable to move up in round one or manuver in rounds 2 and 3, and as we saw in the games prior to Ervins Injury this offense was hot right out of the gate, when Irvin went out there was a noticable decline, so much so Guty brought in Austin, so it's hardly a stretch that a player better then both those guys would have made this offense even better then it was.
Guty is obviously going to say he couldn't trade up, and the draft didn't fall his way, every GM I've ever known has a good defense for the decisions they make, what would people expect them to say?
of course I'll root for him, that has nothing to do with any of this, I rooted for Gary all year to, obviously it's possible to hate the pick, but still like the player.