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It was reported the year Shazier and Mosley came out the Packers were going to take one of them until the Ravens took Mosley and a few picks later the Steelers took Shazier. The Packers were left with HHCD.
The Packers want elite athletes in the first round. They’ve shown that with most of their picks in recent history. You aren’t going to normally get those type of athletes at LB picking where the Packers normally pick. Stud athlete LBs go early and if they don’t something is wrong with them like Jaylon Smith or Mack from Jax.
That's all probably true. Still don't believe they have ILB as a top priority. But with Barns and Martin, they're better off than they were a year ago.
Maybe. I agree Barnes was impressive the in December and January.
But I am keeping my enthusiasm on our ILBs suppressed. Especially on Martin. We only liked him because of a few tweets in August. He is aggressive which we liked. But the dude was terrible. He has a loooong ways to go.
No doubt about that. But now that Pettine is gone, I think those guys will get better. My take on him is, when a veteran screws up, Pettine keeps him on the field. A rookie screws up, he sits and becomes a fixture on the bench. All the while, the vet still makes screw ups.
Lets be honest, Kirksey had a bad first half of the year, and I like the guy, yet Pettine kept him out there. I know, everybody's going to say, who else can he put out there.
My point is, yes Martin and Barns made mistakes. Everybody on the defense made mistakes at some point or another, [ Kevin King says hi ] but you can't put them in the penalty box forever.
My main concern with Barry is that his defenses didn’t look that lacking in talent at least on paper in Washington. He had edge guys in Kerrigan, Murphy, and Preston. He got a good CB in Norman who has been great everywhere except in Washington.
If he really wants to run this ramp 2 zone scheme I think it could be a real opportunity for Josh Jackson. I always did feel that is where he fit best with his skill set. I think you’re really taking away Jaires best ability to cover but he will shine making tackles in that scheme. The safeties will both be stars I think in this scheme.
They still need LBs. Barnes is just average. It’s the CM3 effect. We’ve seen such poor play from the position that anyone who is competent looks stellar when really it’s just average. Martin is a relative unknown. I hope he does well but I’m not sold yet. I saw a lot of mistakes from him. They may be able to go LB in draft early and get a stud. I would still kick the tires on Reuben Foster but I don’t think the Packers would take the risk.
The star studded 2015 Redskin defense:
LDE - Chris Baker
NT - Terrance Knighton
RDE - Jason Hatcher
LOLB - Trent Murphy
LILB - Keenan Robinson
RILB - Perry Riley
ROLB - Ryan Kerrigan
LCB - Bashaud Breeland
RCB - Will Blackmon
SS - Trent Robinson
FS - Dashon Goldson
LILB - William Compton
DB - Kyshoen Jarrett
OLB - Preston Smith
DE - Ricky Jean-Francois
ILB - Mason Foster
Besides EDGE guys, that is a VERY underwhelming crew. Still 17th in points that season.
2016:
LDE - Ricky Jean-Francois
NT - Evander Hood
RDE - Chris Baker
LOLB - Preston Smith
LILB - William Compton
RILB - Mason Foster
ROLB - Ryan Kerrigan
LCB -Bashaud Breeland
RCB -Josh Norman
SS - Donte Whitner
FS - Duke Ihenacho
LOLB - Trent Murphy
LB - Terence Garvin
FS - Will Blackmon
DE - Cullen Jenkins
CB - Quinton Dunbar
CB - Kendall Fuller
OLB - Martrell Spaight
OLB - Houston Bates
Need to see what he brings to the table. I am not going to make a determination in February.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
No one Can call this a bad hire yet, it’s just too early and we gotta wait and see.
But just on paper..this seems like a pretty clown hire. Very underwhelming to say the least. I wish we either went OG old with Rex or Wade or young up and comer. Third attempt retread guy who has had some of the leagues worst defenses just doesn’t excite.
If you told me “bring back Pettine, or take this guy”. I would say give me Pettine back.
No one Can call this a bad hire yet, it’s just too early and we gotta wait and see.
And yet you did...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
But just on paper..this seems like a pretty clown hire. Very underwhelming to say the least. I wish we either went OG old with Rex or Wade or young up and comer. Third attempt retread guy who has had some of the leagues worst defenses just doesn’t excite.
If you told me “bring back Pettine, or take this guy”. I would say give me Pettine back.
No one Can call this a bad hire yet, it’s just too early and we gotta wait and see.
But just on paper..this seems like a pretty clown hire. Very underwhelming to say the least. I wish we either went OG old with Rex or Wade or young up and comer. Third attempt retread guy who has had some of the leagues worst defenses just doesn’t excite.
If you told me “bring back Pettine, or take this guy”. I would say give me Pettine back.
oh so you want a older cord thats failed, like Rex or Wade versus one a tad younger thats failed? failing is often on the route to being a success, people often learn more from failure then they do success.
I think in order for a DC to be a success he has to have a nucleus of very good starters, along with a few blue chippers, even then unless they adjust there schemes offenses will figure out how to beat what they do, that goes for Phillips, Ryan, Capers, Fangio etc. the best defensive schemes still need great players to be successful.
No one Can call this a bad hire yet, it’s just too early and we gotta wait and see.
But just on paper..this seems like a pretty clown hire. Very underwhelming to say the least. I wish we either went OG old with Rex or Wade or young up and comer. Third attempt retread guy who has had some of the leagues worst defenses just doesn’t excite.
If you told me “bring back Pettine, or take this guy”. I would say give me Pettine back.
oh so you want a older cord thats failed, like Rex or Wade versus one a tad younger thats failed? failing is often on the route to being a success, people often learn more from failure then they do success.
I think in order for a DC to be a success he has to have a nucleus of very good starters, along with a few blue chippers, even then unless they adjust there schemes offenses will figure out how to beat what they do, that goes for Phillips, Ryan, Capers, Fangio etc. the best defensive schemes still need great players to be successful.
I mean would i rather have Rex or old man wade over joe Barry? Sure, they at least at some history of success. Unlike Joe Barry.
I thought DrJ's take was reasonable; he clearly said that "on paper" the hire does not seem like a good one, not that it's in-fact doomed to fail.
I would agree, Barry's resume is not especially impressive and he has been the D-Coord for some pretty awful teams. That's a fair assessment.
He could be like LaFleur and thrive given actual talent. Or he may end up being Pettine for the first half of last year.
Thank you
I thought I was pretty clear lol
when you mention it as a CLOWN hire, you insulted both Lafluer and Berry, first you said we'll have to wait and see, then you denegrade the choice, which is it? to me it sounded as though you didn't like the pick, but instead of saying that, you just shade your opinion.
I thought DrJ's take was reasonable; he clearly said that "on paper" the hire does not seem like a good one, not that it's in-fact doomed to fail.
I would agree, Barry's resume is not especially impressive and he has been the D-Coord for some pretty awful teams. That's a fair assessment.
He could be like LaFleur and thrive given actual talent. Or he may end up being Pettine for the first half of last year.
Thank you
I thought I was pretty clear lol
when you mention it as a CLOWN hire, you insulted both Lafluer and Berry, first you said we'll have to wait and see, then you denegrade the choice, which is it? to me it sounded as though you didn't like the pick, but instead of saying that, you just shade your opinion.
Shade my opinion? I’m giving my opinion.
Just recognizing that just like you can’t declare a draft terrible the day of the draft, you can’t forcefully declare a hire bad the day of a hire.
Im saying I can’t outright call the hire bad, just seems like the worst option out of all the options to me.
No one Can call this a bad hire yet, it’s just too early and we gotta wait and see.
But just on paper..this seems like a pretty clown hire. Very underwhelming to say the least. I wish we either went OG old with Rex or Wade or young up and comer. Third attempt retread guy who has had some of the leagues worst defenses just doesn’t excite.
If you told me “bring back Pettine, or take this guy”. I would say give me Pettine back.
oh so you want a older cord thats failed, like Rex or Wade versus one a tad younger thats failed? failing is often on the route to being a success, people often learn more from failure then they do success.
I think in order for a DC to be a success he has to have a nucleus of very good starters, along with a few blue chippers, even then unless they adjust there schemes offenses will figure out how to beat what they do, that goes for Phillips, Ryan, Capers, Fangio etc. the best defensive schemes still need great players to be successful.
I mean would i rather have Rex or old man wade over joe Barry? Sure, they at least at some history of success. Unlike Joe Barry.
Rex Ryan would have been a disaster for the Packers. His massive ego would have tried to overshadow the entire team. Can you imagine the after game interviews, everything would be about him.
when you mention it as a CLOWN hire, you insulted both Lafluer and Berry, first you said we'll have to wait and see, then you denegrade the choice, which is it? to me it sounded as though you didn't like the pick, but instead of saying that, you just shade your opinion.
Shade my opinion? I’m giving my opinion.
Just recognizing that just like you can’t declare a draft terrible the day of the draft, you can’t forcefully declare a hire bad the day of a hire.
Im saying I can’t outright call the hire bad, just seems like the worst option out of all the options to me.
It’s simple really.
when ya look at the below average talent then Berry did well to just be average, People complained about Capers and his defenses where comparable, when ya look at Phillips stats over more then just his turn around years (first few seasons) as the talent declines so do the rankings of his defenses.
Berry is attractive because he tutored under the schemes Lafluer wants to use, and Lafluer wanted a guy that would allow his input coaching up this defense, neither of Wade or Ryan would have welcomed anything like that.
many of the great coaches failed on there way climbing the ladder of success in the NFL,, and thats if you actually think Berry failed, I don't, all the great defenses these days have excellent ILB play, Berry is a excellent lber coach, and the cover 2 scheme is a excellent scheme to combat the new wave offenses we see so many teams using just like we do, Berry wasn't my first choice, but everything I read concerning his hire is encouraging.
when you mention it as a CLOWN hire, you insulted both Lafluer and Berry, first you said we'll have to wait and see, then you denegrade the choice, which is it? to me it sounded as though you didn't like the pick, but instead of saying that, you just shade your opinion.
Shade my opinion? I’m giving my opinion.
Just recognizing that just like you can’t declare a draft terrible the day of the draft, you can’t forcefully declare a hire bad the day of a hire.
Im saying I can’t outright call the hire bad, just seems like the worst option out of all the options to me.
It’s simple really.
when ya look at the below average talent then Berry did well to just be average, People complained about Capers and his defenses where comparable, when ya look at Phillips stats over more then just his turn around years (first few seasons) as the talent declines so do the rankings of his defenses.
Berry is attractive because he tutored under the schemes Lafluer wants to use, and Lafluer wanted a guy that would allow his input coaching up this defense, neither of Wade or Ryan would have welcomed anything like that.
many of the great coaches failed on there way climbing the ladder of success in the NFL,, and thats if you actually think Berry failed, I don't, all the great defenses these days have excellent ILB play, Berry is a excellent lber coach, and the cover 2 scheme is a excellent scheme to combat the new wave offenses we see so many teams using just like we do, Berry wasn't my first choice, but everything I read concerning his hire is encouraging.
Just recognizing that just like you can’t declare a draft terrible the day of the draft, you can’t forcefully declare a hire bad the day of a hire.
Im saying I can’t outright call the hire bad, just seems like the worst option out of all the options to me.
It’s simple really.
when ya look at the below average talent then Berry did well to just be average, People complained about Capers and his defenses where comparable, when ya look at Phillips stats over more then just his turn around years (first few seasons) as the talent declines so do the rankings of his defenses.
Berry is attractive because he tutored under the schemes Lafluer wants to use, and Lafluer wanted a guy that would allow his input coaching up this defense, neither of Wade or Ryan would have welcomed anything like that.
many of the great coaches failed on there way climbing the ladder of success in the NFL,, and thats if you actually think Berry failed, I don't, all the great defenses these days have excellent ILB play, Berry is a excellent lber coach, and the cover 2 scheme is a excellent scheme to combat the new wave offenses we see so many teams using just like we do, Berry wasn't my first choice, but everything I read concerning his hire is encouraging.
Happy for you that you are optimistic
In fairness, Rod Marinelli was the head coach of the 0 and 16 lions. Yet nobody questions his ability to coach defense. He's shown over the past few years with the Bears and Cowboys he can still field a solid defense.
Just recognizing that just like you can’t declare a draft terrible the day of the draft, you can’t forcefully declare a hire bad the day of a hire.
Im saying I can’t outright call the hire bad, just seems like the worst option out of all the options to me.
It’s simple really.
when ya look at the below average talent then Berry did well to just be average, People complained about Capers and his defenses where comparable, when ya look at Phillips stats over more then just his turn around years (first few seasons) as the talent declines so do the rankings of his defenses.
Berry is attractive because he tutored under the schemes Lafluer wants to use, and Lafluer wanted a guy that would allow his input coaching up this defense, neither of Wade or Ryan would have welcomed anything like that.
many of the great coaches failed on there way climbing the ladder of success in the NFL,, and thats if you actually think Berry failed, I don't, all the great defenses these days have excellent ILB play, Berry is a excellent lber coach, and the cover 2 scheme is a excellent scheme to combat the new wave offenses we see so many teams using just like we do, Berry wasn't my first choice, but everything I read concerning his hire is encouraging.
Happy for you that you are optimistic
thanks, I'd rather look at the positives versus the doom and gloom that looking at the negatives arouses, imho what often separates success from failure are the intangibles, ( player talent, assistant coaches, how much the HC helps or hinders) so it's a number of reasons that have to go right for a DC to be a success, and Berry was behind the 8 ball with all this stuff.
that Lafluer mentioned he will over see the defense and help Berry adds to my confidence, he did a hell of a job molding this offense, I expect he'll do the same on defense.
Just dropping in here to say that while Barry is fine (his Ds have been mostly mediocre, though), I really really REALLY wanted someone from the Seattle Legion of Boom tree because I think that defensive style could save Josh Jackson's career prospects and turn Savage into a true star that we're beginning to see signs of.
So based on my own stylistic preferences, I'm a bit disappointed with this hire. I haven't read the rest of the thread (too much catch-up work), so this is mostly a random thought, but one I wanted to get off my chest.
failing is often on the route to being a success, people often learn more from failure then they do success.
