2021 NFL Draft Discussion

[YoHoChecko]

Just did a little work on Eskridge and wow I love hime more and more. I think he would be a star in green bay. He has so much steve Smith to him. Plays hard. Instant teams player. Id prefer him over Toney

Yeah, he got a lot of rave reviews from Senior Bowl people, which I'm only just beginning to look through in more detail (I have his NFL Draftscout page in an open tab which is my way of reminding myself to look more.

That film breakdown was awesome detail! Like, the eyes, even? Nice!

Where do you think he's going? Late round 2 or late round 3?

I really prefer guys to hit above 5'10 and 195ish, but the available crop this year has a lot of guys in the 5'8"/5'9? 185 range and I may have to accept that compromise, haha.

At some point I'll have to line them all up--Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney, Eskridge, Eli Moore, Amari Rodgers, maybe Demetric Felton, maybe Cade Johnson... all of these diminutive playmaking slot types, and see where I feel comfortable with their value. (Tutu Atwell is just too small for me; not even on my board)

Some were at the Senior Bowl so we have good numbers on them.
Eskridge measured 5' 9 1/8" and 188 pounds
K. Toney: 5' 11 1/8" and 189
A. Rodgers: 5' 9 1/2 and 211 (love this guy)
D. Felton: 5' 8 5/8" and 189
Cade Johnson: 5' 10 3/8 and 186 (more of a project)

Diminuative slots aren't the only guys I'm looking at, but it's a position I'd like to address. I loved Rodgers when he was being billed as a 4th or 5th rounder, but the Senior Bowl coverage started talking about him sneaking into round 2, which is too rich for my taste on any of these guys save Toney (who I like around 40 but he'll go before then) and Rondale Moore (who I like around 60 but he'll probably go before then).

Amari Rodgers or Dwayne Eskridge would be good marriage of need and value perhaps in the late 3rd round. But I'd much rather get, say, a Dyami Brown on Day Two and a slot guy on Day 3.

[Backthepack4ever]

I really dont think Esk falls out of the 2nd. I also like Rodgers a ton. Hes bigger then Esk but nit as polished imo. Both would be dynamic in Green Bay.

On another note for the presser yesterday and this star nickle position. I feel its more of a safety/lber type that can cover and move all around. Prob not asked to cover stud wrs but TE and backs no problem. This player can fly around and tackle. Berry wants guys that play with their hair on fire

My draft crush we would have to move up for would be JOK. He fills this roll perfect. I read one report thst hes a better prospect then simmons was last year. (I agree) I dont like that comparison. I do see him alot like Jamal Adams. A lb that can blitz and fly around the middle of the field. I really think hes better in coverage then Adams. This guy was the best player on the field in the Clemson vs ND game.

Another guy that could fit this role is
Travon Moehrig. Matt miller loves this dude. Says hes like Windfield but a little bigger. Playing with 3 safeties thst can move around and interchange all game is a plan.

This isnt to say not to add cbs bc we need to this just means that this d will value a hybrid position that stays on the field also.

[TheSkeptic]

Just did a little work on Eskridge and wow I love hime more and more. I think he would be a star in green bay. He has so much steve Smith to him. Plays hard. Instant teams player. Id prefer him over Toney

Yeah, he got a lot of rave reviews from Senior Bowl people, which I'm only just beginning to look through in more detail (I have his NFL Draftscout page in an open tab which is my way of reminding myself to look more.

That film breakdown was awesome detail! Like, the eyes, even? Nice!

Where do you think he's going? Late round 2 or late round 3?

I really prefer guys to hit above 5'10 and 195ish, but the available crop this year has a lot of guys in the 5'8"/5'9? 185 range and I may have to accept that compromise, haha.

At some point I'll have to line them all up--Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney, Eskridge, Eli Moore, Amari Rodgers, maybe Demetric Felton, maybe Cade Johnson... all of these diminutive playmaking slot types, and see where I feel comfortable with their value. (Tutu Atwell is just too small for me; not even on my board)

Some were at the Senior Bowl so we have good numbers on them.
Eskridge measured 5' 9 1/8" and 188 pounds
K. Toney: 5' 11 1/8" and 189
A. Rodgers: 5' 9 1/2 and 211 (love this guy)
D. Felton: 5' 8 5/8" and 189
Cade Johnson: 5' 10 3/8 and 186 (more of a project)

Diminuative slots aren't the only guys I'm looking at, but it's a position I'd like to address. I loved Rodgers when he was being billed as a 4th or 5th rounder, but the Senior Bowl coverage started talking about him sneaking into round 2, which is too rich for my taste on any of these guys save Toney (who I like around 40 but he'll go before then) and Rondale Moore (who I like around 60 but he'll probably go before then).

Amari Rodgers or Dwayne Eskridge would be good marriage of need and value perhaps in the late 3rd round. But I'd much rather get, say, a Dyami Brown on Day Two and a slot guy on Day 3.

Why? Why not go big in the slot? For example Sternberger or Deguara? Then you have someone who can help the running game. These 190 pound guys are useless as blockers.

[YoHoChecko]

Why? Why not go big in the slot? For example Sternberger or Deguara? Then you have someone who can help the running game. These 190 pound guys are useless as blockers.

I'm looking for dynamic explosive playmakers whose best fit are in the slot or as part time gadget guys because we could use some more dynamic playmaking ability and because we already have several large players without elite quickness, separation ability, or playmaking skills. I would like to see more guys who can uncover quickly.

I'd PREFER them to be larger. The post above was pointing to the fact that this year's crop of dynamic playmaking slot types are almost all on the smaller side; that we don't have many options for a thicker RB body in the playmaking mold like a 220 Antonio Gibson or a 210 pound Deebo Samuel this year.

Working with what we DO have available in this draft, I like Amari Rodgers the best, because he's 205-210 pounds--a RB body--but still very good quickness.

The small size of many of the draft's most dynamic players is why I mentioned that for a couple of them, I'm not comfortable taking them as high in the draft as they're likely to go. So we're not in complete disagreement.

But we are in disagreement that Deguara or Sterny or even EQ could replicate what the players in my previous post are capable of replicating. What I am looking for is someone who can fit into Tyler Ervin's role as a jet sweep decoy type, but also greatly expand on his ability as a receiver, with the potential to develop into larger roles. Your post sounded more like "Why would you need Tyreek Hill when you could put Travis Kelce in the slot?" Or "why would you draft Marquise Brown when you have Mark Anderson?" These are different players with different skillsets to fill different roles and I know that blocking is important for our WRs but so is getting open within the first 2 seconds of the snap.

[Backthepack4ever]

Great post Yoho. I dont need to add much bc you hit all the points

I will say thar these guys can add in some blocking. Are they kittle type blockers no but downfield even getting a hat on a guy can break it open. Esk has been praised for his blocking. Give me a team with Variety in options. We have tes. We have big wrs. Now get a true slot body type and game plan each week

[YoHoChecko]

Great post Yoho. I dont need to add much bc you hit all the points

I will say thar these guys can add in some blocking. Are they kittle type blockers no but downfield even getting a hat on a guy can break it open. Esk has been praised for his blocking. Give me a team with Variety in options. We have tes. We have big wrs. Now get a true slot body type and game plan each week

Good addition; I was going to mention that at WR, aside from afew standouts, blocking is about effort and attitude more than skill and ability. It's are you willing to absorb a blow to get in the way for a bit and to continue pursuing blocks down the field as plays continue... more than can you manhandle large men.

[lupedafiasco]

I really don’t want any of these midgets on my team if they’re gonna take a top 3 pick to play the slot. If we are gonna have a slot guy they need to be able to block. Very rare to find a slot that can hold up out there. You can get a guy who has some size and strength to him.

Look at Cooper Kupp. 6’2 and gets in there to mix it up and gets open from the slot. Whatever we are calling on offense we need to be able to run out of it as well so there can be a play action. You’re sacrificing way to much to get a small speed guy who’s going to get destroyed by nickel CBs and safeties.

[lupedafiasco]

Great post Yoho. I dont need to add much bc you hit all the points

I will say thar these guys can add in some blocking. Are they kittle type blockers no but downfield even getting a hat on a guy can break it open. Esk has been praised for his blocking. Give me a team with Variety in options. We have tes. We have big wrs. Now get a true slot body type and game plan each week

Good addition; I was going to mention that at WR, aside from afew standouts, blocking is about effort and attitude more than skill and ability. It's are you willing to absorb a blow to get in the way for a bit and to continue pursuing blocks down the field as plays continue... more than can you manhandle large men.

Easier to absorb the blow when you’re big enough to do so. These 5’9 guys don’t stand a chance no matter how hard they try. They’ll get eaten alive trying to run block and that’ll just sap their effectiveness as a receiver IMO. They just don’t fit the system.

[Backthepack4ever]

I really don’t want any of these midgets on my team if they’re gonna take a top 3 pick to play the slot. If we are gonna have a slot guy they need to be able to block. Very rare to find a slot that can hold up out there. You can get a guy who has some size and strength to him.

Look at Cooper Kupp. 6’2 and gets in there to mix it up and gets open from the slot. Whatever we are calling on offense we need to be able to run out of it as well so there can be a play action. You’re sacrificing way to much to get a small speed guy who’s going to get destroyed by nickel CBs and safeties.

This is 100% guess work lupe. Why is it rare they cant hold up? Why would nickle cbs destroy them? I dont buy this logic. Yea if these prosepcts are Tutu size at 165 I agree. 190 to Rodgers at 210 (kupp is listed 208) I'm not buying this. Rodgers is built like a rb. I dont see nickles pushing him around at all.

Some of these slot guys can run the motion and jet sweeps ML loves. These slot guys can take a 5 yard pass to the house. Another thing we dont have.

I will say I think Esk is more then just a slot type. He is a true technician that can get open from the outside also. The chiefs had a whole roster of these guys and it works.

I'll take a steve Smith type that isnt big but was a dog over an always wounded kupp

[Yoop]

I'am sure Ted Thompson drafted Randall Cobb for his blocking skills seriously now, blocking is the last skill set I'am looking for in a slot receiver, very last, we need a guy that can get off the los and get open fast, can force lbers and safety's to honor the jet sweeps and motion, and then wall off the nickel CB for a run, if ya want a lead blocker go draft a HB.

we need speed, almost everyone will tell you we lack it, how long can we expect Rodgers to carry this offense? and believe it or dont, we are still a pass first team, we've had excellent RB's for 2 years now and the balance of offensive plays still favors the pass, imo thats not going to change as long as Rodgers is the QB.

the two Tampa games high lighted our offensive needs, along with some better blocking, we need a impact player that can clear coverage fast so Rodgers can get rid of the ball quicker, not as though this is a top secret, we've needed a player like this for a few years now.

[YoHoChecko]

Mocks are going to be so wild this year.

Value is all over the board.

Here's an example. I was working on a mock stocking some of my favorites of the draft the following within the top 5 rounds (a period in which we likely will have 7 picks)

1. either Jaycee Horn or Asante Samuel, Jr. (CBs)
2. Amari Rodgers (slot WR)
3. Dyami Brown (outside/vertical WR)
4. Benjamin St-Juste (CB)
5. Alim McNeil

So I'm looking around at how each is valued. Let's take a tour:

image.png (31.42 KiB) Viewed 464 times

These spreads are absurd. Even Horn has almost a full-round spread. Ben St-Juste goes anywhere from late 3rd to mid-7th. Asante Samuel Jr could be off the board by 29 or a full-round reach at the same spot.

I know we know this--this year, no combine, less groupthink, more chances for variation, more decisions being made with info the outsiders and the fans don't have. But I picked as many places as I could where the authors do their own evaluation on purpose (plus, Drafttek as sort of a sentiment check). And, like, mocking Samuel to us at our original late 2nd round pick feels like a pipe dream to me, but for a few of these evaluators, it's fine.

I guess one note is that, of course, it only takes one team to make someone a high draft pick, so in a wide range of opinions, you always have to lean on the earlier ones more so than, say, an average. Because if SOMEONE sees that kind of potential and value in a player, then there's a good chance that someone working for one team may, also.

[BF004]

Glad to have you back, yoho. =)

[lupedafiasco]

To be clear I’m perfectly fine getting a WR with a slot build in the latter rounds. It makes no sense to draft one with a high pick when they don’t offer much to the core principles of this offense.

[YoHoChecko]

To be clear I’m perfectly fine getting a WR with a slot build in the latter rounds. It makes no sense to draft one with a high pick when they don’t offer much to the core principles of this offense.

I hear ya. For example:

Amari Rodgers in the 4th

Amari Rodgers in the 5th:

Amari Rodgers in the 3rd:

Amari Rodgers in the 2nd:

[lupedafiasco]

To be clear I’m perfectly fine getting a WR with a slot build in the latter rounds. It makes no sense to draft one with a high pick when they don’t offer much to the core principles of this offense.

I hear ya. For example:

Amari Rodgers in the 4th

Amari Rodgers in the 5th:

Amari Rodgers in the 3rd:

Amari Rodgers in the 2nd:

I would lose my $%@# mind if they took him in the 2nd.

[YoHoChecko]

I would lose my $%@# mind if they took him in the 2nd.

Take it up with Dane Brugler!

[paco]

I signed up for PackerReport's VIP. If anyone is interested, here's Ross Uglem's initial top 51 Packer Big Board.

1 Trevor Lawrence QB Clemson
2 Penei Sewell OT Oregon
3 Kyle Pitts TE Florida
4 Ja'Marr Chase WR LSU
5 DeVonta Smith WR Alabama
6 Rashawn Slater OT Northwestern
7 Kwity Paye EDGE Michigan
8 Jaylen Waddle WR Alabama
9 Caleb Farley CB Virginia Tech
10 Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
11 Landon Dickerson IOL Alabama
12 Micah Parsons LB Penn State
13 Christian Barmore IDL Alabama
14 Jaycee Horn CB South Carolina
15 Rashod Bateman WR Minnesota
16 Rondale Moore WR Purdue
17 Kadarius Toney WR Florida
18 Dillon Radunz OT NDSU
19 Teven Jenkins OT Oklahoma State
20 Trevon Moehrig S TCU
21 Alijah Vera-Tucker IOL USC
22 Jason Oweh EDGE Penn State
23 Rashad Weaver EDGE Pitt
24 Terrace Marshall WR LSU
25 Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah LB Notre Dame
26 Liam Eichenberg OT Notre Dame
27 Patrick Surtain II CB Alabama
28 Gregory Newsome CB Northwestern
29 Asante Samuel Jr. CB Florida State
30 Jaelan Phillips EDGE Miami
31 Gregory Rousseau EDGE Miami
32 Ronnie Perkins EDGE Oklahoma
33 Jaylen Mayfield OT Michigan
34 Creed Humphrey IOL Oklahoma
35 Jabril Cox LB NDSU
36 Nick Bolton LB Mizzou
37 Dyami Brown WR UNC
38 Joseph Ossai EDGE/LB Texas
39 Chazz Surratt LB UNC
40 Zaven Collins LB Tulsa
41 Azeez Ojulari EDGE Georgia
42 Elijah Moore WR Ole Miss
43 Alex Leatherwood OT Alabama
44 Sam Cosmi OT Texas
45 Daviyon Nixon IDL Iowa
46 Wyatt Davis IOL Ohio State
47 Jevon Holland CB Oregon
48 Elijah Molden CB Washington
49 Travis Etienne RB Clemson
50 Javonte Williams RB UNC
51 Trey Lance QB NDSU

[lupedafiasco]

That big board is insane.

[NCF]

That big board is insane.

Yeah, not good.

[paco]

What's wrong with it if I may ask? He said it is catered to the Packers, not an overall ranking of the players. So current needs forced some players higher. He said it would also change based on more info on measurements, times, etc coming in.