Packers 2021 Defense

[NCF]

Yoho I am fed up with spending all our high picks on defense, year after year thats what we do cept for taking the QB last year.

Ya know what? Me too. Honestly, I am. It's just difficult to avoid when you have a top offense and a mediocre defense. Like, we probably need a CB in the first 2 rounds and we have a clear need at DT. And while I DEFINITELY want a C, a WR or two, and an OT--C goes late, generally, anyway and WR and OT are the literal two deepest positions in this draft.

Value-wise, it still, again, makes a ton of sense to wind up with 2 of our first 3 picks on D. But you're right. I am also tired of it.

We'll be fine after we sign ARob.

[Pugger]

Time travel and take TJ.

That's pretty much it. They need a Delorean smiley.

I still can't believe TT passed on TJ for King.

[Yoop]

Time travel and take TJ.

That's pretty much it. They need a Delorean smiley.

I still can't believe TT passed on TJ for King.

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

[Yoop]

Yoho I am fed up with spending all our high picks on defense, year after year thats what we do cept for taking the QB last year.

Ya know what? Me too. Honestly, I am. It's just difficult to avoid when you have a top offense and a mediocre defense. Like, we probably need a CB in the first 2 rounds and we have a clear need at DT. And while I DEFINITELY want a C, a WR or two, and an OT--C goes late, generally, anyway and WR and OT are the literal two deepest positions in this draft.

Value-wise, it still, again, makes a ton of sense to wind up with 2 of our first 3 picks on D. But you're right. I am also tired of it.

We'll be fine after we sign ARob.

who's ARob, and what does he have to do with this conversation?

[YoHoChecko]

We'll be fine after we sign ARob.

who's ARob, and what does he have to do with this conversation?

I think he means Allen Robinson, the very good WR stuck on the Bears' terrible offense for the past couple of years, and that it will satiate our desire for offense and allow us to address defensive needs like CB and DT early in the draft without feeling like we are neglecting the offense again.

[NCF]

We'll be fine after we sign ARob.

who's ARob, and what does he have to do with this conversation?

I think he means Allen Robinson, the very good WR stuck on the Bears' terrible offense for the past couple of years, and that it will satiate our desire for offense and allow us to address defensive needs like CB and DT early in the draft without feeling like we are neglecting the offense again.

It's getting no lip service even though Will Fuller is back in the conversation already. I have been thinking about Robinson since midseason and while it will almost be impossible to make happen, there are a few things I keep going back to.

1.) All Day 1 Free Agents are going to be expensive, if you are going to take a big swing, then at least take a big swing. Would gladly spend an extra $4M or so to sign Robinson than pay Fuller top dollar and get a much lesser player.

2.) Gute has shown a pattern of going back and being persistent to get his guy. He chased Robinson big time the last time he was a free agent. If he was interested then, he will still be interested now. The contract is the big question.

[Yoop]

who's ARob, and what does he have to do with this conversation?

I think he means Allen Robinson, the very good WR stuck on the Bears' terrible offense for the past couple of years, and that it will satiate our desire for offense and allow us to address defensive needs like CB and DT early in the draft without feeling like we are neglecting the offense again.

It's getting no lip service even though Will Fuller is back in the conversation already. I have been thinking about Robinson since midseason and while it will almost be impossible to make happen, there are a few things I keep going back to.

1.) All Day 1 Free Agents are going to be expensive, if you are going to take a big swing, then at least take a big swing. Would gladly spend an extra $4M or so to sign Robinson than pay Fuller top dollar and get a much lesser player.

2.) Gute has shown a pattern of going back and being persistent to get his guy. He chased Robinson big time the last time he was a free agent. If he was interested then, he will still be interested now. The contract is the big question.

sorry that flew right over my head, I forgot all about Allen Robinson, be great to get him, but he'll be expensive, I'd rather groom up a high draft pick WR, typically those that go in the first couple rounds are more ready to play at this level, so basically I'am not that interested in either of ARob or Fuller, I agree he'll demand more then he's worth.

while Barmore is the highest rated DL, there are several others that might be around in the later 2nd or early 3rd round, that coupled with who we already have would make our DL better, I'am looking at BPA between WR and CB for our first round pick, but I could change my mind the more I get into the prospects.

obviously any impact players are expensive FA's, the ones that score points even more so, so I'd like to use the draft on those, and attempt to find budget friendly vet's for positions like rotational DL or backup positions.

[Pugger]

That's pretty much it. They need a Delorean smiley.

I still can't believe TT passed on TJ for King.

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

[YoHoChecko]

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

I mean, to be fair, it wasn't simple. We needed a pass rusher and a CB. And there was a trade involved. And there's no telling which guy was higher on the Packers' board between the two because when they picked King, Watt was already off the board.

[paco]

I still can't believe TT passed on TJ for King.

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

Not everyone was sold on TJ. I wasn't as well as others. We were very wrong. It happens.

[BF004]

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

Not everyone was sold on TJ. I wasn't as well as others. We were very wrong. It happens.

I wanted him a lot, but those knees really scared me. IF, that is a big if, they knocked him down the draft board because of those knees, I would have understood.

[go pak go]

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

Not everyone was sold on TJ. I wasn't as well as others. We were very wrong. It happens.

I wanted him a lot, but those knees really scared me. IF, that is a big if, they knocked him down the draft board because of those knees, I would have understood.

Didn't JJ have the same injury problems coming into the draft too?

I was on board because for TJ because I was wrong on JJ. However, I will say I was very excited for Kevin King during 2017, his rookie season, before he got injured.

[NCF]

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

I mean, to be fair, it wasn't simple. We needed a pass rusher and a CB. And there was a trade involved. And there's no telling which guy was higher on the Packers' board between the two because when they picked King, Watt was already off the board.

Watt wasn't even a need. He was a luxury. We had just signed Nick Perry, coming off his best season, to a 5-year $60M contract. Some of us saw the need in the near future, replacing Matthews or Perry, but at that exact moment, we seemed pretty stocked at that position. CB was a MUCH bigger need. Need I remind everyone about that crap fest NFC Championship Game that preceded this Draft class?

[YoHoChecko]

Watt wasn't even a need. He was a luxury. We had just signed Nick Perry, coming off his best season, to a 5-year $60M contract. Some of us saw the need in the near future, replacing Matthews or Perry, but at that exact moment, we seemed pretty stocked at that position. CB was a MUCH bigger need. Need I remind everyone about that crap fest NFC Championship Game that preceded this Draft class?

But Matthews was coming off of a 6.5-sack 2015 and a 5-sack 2016 and had missed some time getting knicked up and was entering the final year of dead money in his contract and had played some ILB and made our defense better there.

Watt working his way into the rotation with Perry outside with Matthews being more of an inside/outside hybrid was the immediate future many people foresaw. Drafting Watt was viewed as a pathway to improving our pass rush while making Matthews' move inside permanent. Not everyone agreed with the strategy, but it could easily have been seen as addressing an imminent need, and was by many. (Not by me, I don't think; can't recall, but I don't think I was ever hard on the Watt train)

[Yoop]

I still can't believe TT passed on TJ for King.

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

I agree, but imo it's near impossible since we switched to the UFA era, a team losses to many players to stick to the BPA entirely, ya have to replace positions lost, think about it, we had Mathews and Perry during that draft class, and just lost Randall, and the cupboard was bare behind him, who would you take if your the GM? seriously you don't have a choice there Pugger

imo BPA looses out to BTV, best team value, the hope is there just about the same.

[Labrev]

I always find Badger prospects a bit annoying because of how much Packer fans slobber over them, but TJ Watt just felt like such an obvious blue-chipper that I was on board with it despite myself.

I was also really big on Budda Baker, that was the year I started wanting us to add a S/DB who could play around the field. I have been wanting that (and ILB) for some time now.

I can't hate the King pick that much in retrospect because of how big of a need CB was, and he flashed the talent to justify the pick (as a rookie, made some nice plays again Julio Jones)... just never put it together while healthy, and rarely was healthy.

[NCF]

I always find Badger prospects a bit annoying because of how much Packer fans slobber over them, but TJ Watt just felt like such an obvious blue-chipper that I was on board with it despite myself.

I liked Biegel better.

[Pugger]

well, it's simple, we needed a CB more then we needed a pass rusher, and King was the next best CB available

And this is why a GM shouldn't always go for need. You go for the BPA. In 2005 we didn't need a QB either.

I mean, to be fair, it wasn't simple. We needed a pass rusher and a CB. And there was a trade involved. And there's no telling which guy was higher on the Packers' board between the two because when they picked King, Watt was already off the board.

No. We traded down out of the 1st (we had the #29) and Pitt took TJ at #30 so when we made the draft day trade with Cleveland TJ was still on the board.

[Yoop]

Watt wasn't even a need. He was a luxury. We had just signed Nick Perry, coming off his best season, to a 5-year $60M contract. Some of us saw the need in the near future, replacing Matthews or Perry, but at that exact moment, we seemed pretty stocked at that position. CB was a MUCH bigger need. Need I remind everyone about that crap fest NFC Championship Game that preceded this Draft class?

But Matthews was coming off of a 6.5-sack 2015 and a 5-sack 2016 and had missed some time getting knicked up and was entering the final year of dead money in his contract and had played some ILB and made our defense better there.

Watt working his way into the rotation with Perry outside with Matthews being more of an inside/outside hybrid was the immediate future many people foresaw. Drafting Watt was viewed as a pathway to improving our pass rush while making Matthews' move inside permanent. Not everyone agreed with the strategy, but it could easily have been seen as addressing an imminent need, and was by many. (Not by me, I don't think; can't recall, but I don't think I was ever hard on the Watt train)

Mathews went from what 12 sacks in 2014 even playing a bunch of inside lber to 015 6.5 sakes and a 100 drops into coverage, about the same in 016.

P Smith 019 12 sacks and 70 drops to 020 5 sacks and 120 drops in coverage, my conclusion is that dropping a lot really affects your sack count

look what happened when Mathews left, back to double digit sacks, possibly because he wasn't asked to drop as much.

thing is someone has to be able to drop, I thought that would be something Gary would do, Prestine struggled with it last year, time to try someone else.

I didn't think there was a lot of talk of us showing interest in a edge rusher in that draft, mostly CB, simply because we had NO one, pretty evident since we also took Alexander 2 years later, prior we had a departing Randall, and a bunch of scrubs I can't even remember the names of.

[Christo]

Watt wasn't even a need. He was a luxury. We had just signed Nick Perry, coming off his best season, to a 5-year $60M contract. Some of us saw the need in the near future, replacing Matthews or Perry, but at that exact moment, we seemed pretty stocked at that position. CB was a MUCH bigger need. Need I remind everyone about that crap fest NFC Championship Game that preceded this Draft class?

But Matthews was coming off of a 6.5-sack 2015 and a 5-sack 2016 and had missed some time getting knicked up and was entering the final year of dead money in his contract and had played some ILB and made our defense better there.

Watt working his way into the rotation with Perry outside with Matthews being more of an inside/outside hybrid was the immediate future many people foresaw. Drafting Watt was viewed as a pathway to improving our pass rush while making Matthews' move inside permanent. Not everyone agreed with the strategy, but it could easily have been seen as addressing an imminent need, and was by many. (Not by me, I don't think; can't recall, but I don't think I was ever hard on the Watt train)

Mathews went from what 12 sacks in 2014 even playing a bunch of inside lber to 015 6.5 sakes and a 100 drops into coverage, about the same in 016.

P Smith 019 12 sacks and 70 drops to 020 5 sacks and 120 drops in coverage, my conclusion is that dropping a lot really affects your sack count

look what happened when Mathews left, back to double digit sacks, possibly because he wasn't asked to drop as much.

thing is someone has to be able to drop, I thought that would be something Gary would do, Prestine struggled with it last year, time to try someone else.

I didn't think there was a lot of talk of us showing interest in a edge rusher in that draft, mostly CB, simply because we had NO one, pretty evident since we also took Alexander 2 years later, prior we had a departing Randall, and a bunch of scrubs I can't even remember the names of.

I really hate seeing D-linemen dropping into coverage. It's not something they're very good at and takes away from they're true value.
Like you said, somebody has to do it, but lets not waste a pass rusher on that role.

I've mentioned before, if the " hybrid " LB/DB is that important to your defense, then spend some draft capital on a good player that can give you what your looking for. No doubt Oren Burks was supposed to be that guy, but laid an egg at the job.
But that doesn't mean you stop looking for that guy.

A guy who fits that type of player seems to be Jeremiah Owusu- Koramoah. I'm sure they are others on here who have said as much.
Problem with him is he'll likely be gone when the Packers pick.