2021 NFL Draft Discussion

[salmar80]

[Yoop]

must be hard to prove something like this, I think teams skirt the cap every year, I remember SF doing it back when Carmen Policy was there financial officer back in the 90's, two years the NFL investigated, but Policy covered his tracks well, nothing ever happened that I can recal.

[go pak go]

If we don't get a vet CB with ufa then we have to draft a ready to play CB in this draft, and those guys are usually found in the first round or early 2nd, so I don't think trading back is a real option, and Barry wants a couple of STAR CB's, obviously one is Alexander, but to add more disguise, 2 is better then just one

I really would like to pick up a vet FA Star though, then maybe take Barmore that dt with our first, then another CB that we can coach into a starter quick, then maybe a tackle, after that BPA, we absolutely need to win another SB with Rodgers, then retool a little, pay our debts and win another in the next couple with Lovie

I agree pal. I really think we need a FA CB pickup. And I wouldn't mind drafting at least 2 CBs and as you said, target that "star" role.

And yes I really, really, really want a 2nd ring for Rodgers. I put a LOT of pressure on the 2020 Packers because I figured that was our best shot. I think we got two more bullets in the chamber. I'm getting a little tired of our blue chippers being losers when it matters most.

I am a little surprised you're not on the Kadarius Toney train for every post. Did the Aaron Jones signing sway you?

[go pak go]

must be hard to prove something like this, I think teams skirt the cap every year, I remember SF doing it back when Carmen Policy was there financial officer back in the 90's, two years the NFL investigated, but Policy covered his tracks well, nothing ever happened that I can recal.

I'm confused on practice squad players.

Do they actually hit the cap or not? Because Andy Herman keeps talking about us having enough cap for the Practice Squad. I thought the cap was only on the 53 man roster and then Practice Squad just had limits on how much you can pay a player and how many "high end" Practice Squad contracts you can divy out.

[Yoop]

must be hard to prove something like this, I think teams skirt the cap every year, I remember SF doing it back when Carmen Policy was there financial officer back in the 90's, two years the NFL investigated, but Policy covered his tracks well, nothing ever happened that I can recal.

I'm confused on practice squad players.

Do they actually hit the cap or not? Because Andy Herman keeps talking about us having enough cap for the Practice Squad. I thought the cap was only on the 53 man roster and then Practice Squad just had limits on how much you can pay a player and how many "high end" Practice Squad contracts you can divy out.

your guess is as good as mine, I always thought that the PS was included with the cap, and teams break the cap with adding players that they don't report till they cut another player off of it, when they are suppose to cut the player first and then add one??????

[Yoop]

If we don't get a vet CB with ufa then we have to draft a ready to play CB in this draft, and those guys are usually found in the first round or early 2nd, so I don't think trading back is a real option, and Barry wants a couple of STAR CB's, obviously one is Alexander, but to add more disguise, 2 is better then just one

I really would like to pick up a vet FA Star though, then maybe take Barmore that dt with our first, then another CB that we can coach into a starter quick, then maybe a tackle, after that BPA, we absolutely need to win another SB with Rodgers, then retool a little, pay our debts and win another in the next couple with Lovie

I agree pal. I really think we need a FA CB pickup. And I wouldn't mind drafting at least 2 CBs and as you said, target that "star" role.

And yes I really, really, really want a 2nd ring for Rodgers. I put a LOT of pressure on the 2020 Packers because I figured that was our best shot. I think we got two more bullets in the chamber. I'm getting a little tired of our blue chippers being losers when it matters most.

I am a little surprised you're not on the Kadarius Toney train for every post. Did the Aaron Jones signing sway you?

we just have more dire needs at CB and DT, I'd love to get Toney he'd be a explosive player for our offense, however keeping Jones imo was even more important, as to adding a receiver, another player like Ervin will probably be sufficient, we need a motion man defenses have to respect, and Jones can probably do some of that, but having two that can do it adds some diversity.

like you and others I'am not sure which CB I want in the draft, draft info is very limited unless you want to pay for it, and I don't

[go pak go]

If we don't get a vet CB with ufa then we have to draft a ready to play CB in this draft, and those guys are usually found in the first round or early 2nd, so I don't think trading back is a real option, and Barry wants a couple of STAR CB's, obviously one is Alexander, but to add more disguise, 2 is better then just one

I really would like to pick up a vet FA Star though, then maybe take Barmore that dt with our first, then another CB that we can coach into a starter quick, then maybe a tackle, after that BPA, we absolutely need to win another SB with Rodgers, then retool a little, pay our debts and win another in the next couple with Lovie

I agree pal. I really think we need a FA CB pickup. And I wouldn't mind drafting at least 2 CBs and as you said, target that "star" role.

And yes I really, really, really want a 2nd ring for Rodgers. I put a LOT of pressure on the 2020 Packers because I figured that was our best shot. I think we got two more bullets in the chamber. I'm getting a little tired of our blue chippers being losers when it matters most.

I am a little surprised you're not on the Kadarius Toney train for every post. Did the Aaron Jones signing sway you?

we just have more dire needs at CB and DT, I'd love to get Toney he'd be a explosive player for our offense, however keeping Jones imo was even more important, as to adding a receiver, another player like Ervin will probably be sufficient, we need a motion man defenses have to respect, and Jones can probably do some of that, but having two that can do it adds some diversity.

like you and others I'am not sure which CB I want in the draft, draft info is very limited unless you want to pay for it, and I don't

What's really hard too is so many players didn't even play in 2020. So then you are looking at scouting reports of people who were a Sophomore in 2019 or relying on 2020 production which may be against lesser competition.

But yeah I want a lot of defense for sure. I honestly haven't found any offensive tackles that I really like yet. Seems like all of them that I read about are the same...."didn't play in 2020 or has 4 games of experience"

I have a feeling this year I am going to go into the draft with very little expectation and just try and enjoy it.

But yes. I really want a CB FA. I think that is our largest need by far. Getting a guy like Lawrence Guy or something on the Dline would be cool too but I think we can survive better with what we have there.

It really sucks that Josh Jackson couldn't be that STAR. Because he has the body to be a great tackler and be physical.

[Yoop]

I agree pal. I really think we need a FA CB pickup. And I wouldn't mind drafting at least 2 CBs and as you said, target that "star" role.

And yes I really, really, really want a 2nd ring for Rodgers. I put a LOT of pressure on the 2020 Packers because I figured that was our best shot. I think we got two more bullets in the chamber. I'm getting a little tired of our blue chippers being losers when it matters most.

I am a little surprised you're not on the Kadarius Toney train for every post. Did the Aaron Jones signing sway you?

we just have more dire needs at CB and DT, I'd love to get Toney he'd be a explosive player for our offense, however keeping Jones imo was even more important, as to adding a receiver, another player like Ervin will probably be sufficient, we need a motion man defenses have to respect, and Jones can probably do some of that, but having two that can do it adds some diversity.

like you and others I'am not sure which CB I want in the draft, draft info is very limited unless you want to pay for it, and I don't

What's really hard too is so many players didn't even play in 2020. So then you are looking at scouting reports of people who were a Sophomore in 2019 or relying on 2020 production which may be against lesser competition.

But yeah I want a lot of defense for sure. I honestly haven't found any offensive tackles that I really like yet. Seems like all of them that I read about are the same...."didn't play in 2020 or has 4 games of experience"

I have a feeling this year I am going to go into the draft with very little expectation and just try and enjoy it.

But yes. I really want a CB FA. I think that is our largest need by far. Getting a guy like Lawrence Guy or something on the Dline would be cool too but I think we can survive better with what we have there.

It really sucks that Josh Jackson couldn't be that STAR. Because he has the body to be a great tackler and be physical.

Is this Jacksons last year on the rookie contract? I'am to tired to look it up, I think it is, so unless he actually shows some progress, he'll be gone, can't find a gem with every pick, and he's never shinned that I can remember, yep he's got the physical tools, but lacks the gray matter.

there are still a couple good corners available, but the better ones are there cause they want $$$ so they may be beyond what Guty can afford, and it doesn't seem like they want to mess with Rodgers contract to the degree they would need to to buy one, @#$%^&*()(*&^ M $%^& f $%^& imo and depending on Rodgers fortitude I could see him playing near this level for 5 more years, thats why I hated the Love pick, just made no sense to me to rush like we did to draft his replacement.

anyway I think we'll be able to win it all for the time he has left here, thats 3 seasons, there's still time for Guty to make some moves., the Rams and us are the only teams to not add a UFA this years so far, while some teams have just about rebuilt there entire roster, and throw money around as though there was a never ending supply, I'am jealous

I thought Patrick Peterson would have been a good clone of CW, close enough anyway to play in/out as Charles did, a QB has to account for a player of that caliber where ever they line up, it's a distraction with usually good results, just more stuff for them to think about.

[go pak go]

Yoop I really think it will end up being 2 seasons. I think it is going to be really hard to carry a "SB winning roster: into 2023.

[Yoop]

Yoop I really think it will end up being 2 seasons. I think it is going to be really hard to carry a "SB winning roster: into 2023.

why? we didn't think we'd be able to keep this group together, our only real loss of any significance is Linsley, so it is possible, with the big TV deal we can keep back loading some extensions a couple more years, sure if we win a SB Guty might pull the plug, if not we gotta keep on trying.

[salmar80]

Is this Jacksons last year on the rookie contract? I'am to tired to look it up, I think it is, so unless he actually shows some progress, he'll be gone, can't find a gem with every pick, and he's never shinned that I can remember, yep he's got the physical tools, but lacks the gray matter.

there are still a couple good corners available, but the better ones are there cause they want $$$ so they may be beyond what Guty can afford, and it doesn't seem like they want to mess with Rodgers contract to the degree they would need to to buy one, @#$%^&*()(*&^ M $%^& f $%^& imo and depending on Rodgers fortitude I could see him playing near this level for 5 more years, thats why I hated the Love pick, just made no sense to me to rush like we did to draft his replacement.

anyway I think we'll be able to win it all for the time he has left here, thats 3 seasons, there's still time for Guty to make some moves., the Rams and us are the only teams to not add a UFA this years so far, while some teams have just about rebuilt there entire roster, and throw money around as though there was a never ending supply, I'am jealous

I thought Patrick Peterson would have been a good clone of CW, close enough anyway to play in/out as Charles did, a QB has to account for a player of that caliber where ever they line up, it's a distraction with usually good results, just more stuff for them to think about.

I wouldn't be too jealous:

Teams that have added zero notable outside FAs (*notable = players with contracts big enough to factor into comp pick formula. Source: Overthecap.com):

Bucs 11-5
Colts 11-5
Packers 13-3
Rams 10-6
Ravens 11-5
Steelers 12-4

Combined record of those teams: 68-28 (.709 W-L %).

Top 5 teams with the most notable FA signings:

Texans (14 FAs) 4-12
Jaguars (11 FAs) 1-15
Patriots (10 FAs) 7-9
Panthers (7 FAs) 5-11
Jets (6 FAs) 2-14

Combined record: 19-61 (.238 W-L %)

Point being: The best teams tend to use their FA money on their own. Like we did with Kenny Clark, David Bakhtiari and Aaron Jones. That's not too shabby a "FA haul", some might call it a "splash".

[go pak go]

Yoop I really think it will end up being 2 seasons. I think it is going to be really hard to carry a "SB winning roster: into 2023.

why? we didn't think we'd be able to keep this group together, our only real loss of any significance is Linsley, so it is possible, with the big TV deal we can keep back loading some extensions a couple more years, sure if we win a SB Guty might pull the plug, if not we gotta keep on trying.

So the Packers only have 28 players under contract right now for the 2022 season.

The Packers also have $213 million in cap locked up for the 2022 season. Right now the cap is $182 million. So even if we see a huge jump...say 20% jump, we would still need to pay 27 new players (I believe we will be at 55 roster next year) but only having $5 million to do it. A 20% jump in cap would put the cap at $218 million.

In short, we are going to have to defer a lot of players' money designated for 2022 into 2023 (think Aaron Rodgers) just to keep the group together for next year. But we won't be able to keep doing that likely in 2023. For instance, Aaron Jones. It will be impossible to keep Aaron Jones unless something super strange happens.

I would just be very surprised from a dollars standpoint if we can keep pushing money out beyond 2022 and keep the roster together.

And this picture looks even worse if continue to spend more FA this offseason.

[Yoop]

the Brian Baldinger partial draft scout report, we all can't wait to read his stuff, right?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2021-nfl-d ... 49084.html

I shares a little about some players that caught his eye, and someone maybe Yoho liked this CB, I always liked Baldingers player comments, so I found this article interesting.

UCF CB Aaron Robinson
“If you’re looking for a slot corner, and you have to factor in that slot corners are starters in this world, this Aaron Robinson at UCF … he’s tenacious. He’s nasty. He’s sticky. To me, he looks like he could come in and lock down that position wherever he goes Day 1.

“He’s got all the size to play outside, and I think he can play out there. But at Central Florida he was a slot corner mostly. And that slot position, you’ve got to be physical, you’ve got to be able to handle blockers, you’re down in the run mix.

“But I see all of his ability to tackle, to be physical. It all shows up.”

[YoHoChecko]

Good pull, [mention]Yoop[/mention]. A podcaster or two I've been listening to are pretty high on Robinson. He seems like a good fit, but we still need a second outside CB, so it's tough to figure out whether we need a guy who can play outside, inside, or both. That's why we're clamoring for a FA who can play inside or out, which helps with the "star" we speak of, but also frees up the options in the draft to fill either position first (should probably try to fill both)

[paco]

These numbers don't bode well for the Packers usual thresholds.

[BSA]

These numbers don't bode well for the Packers usual thresholds.

The question becomes, are the usual thresholds still valid in the modern NFL ?
With all of the changes to the rules- favoring offense, can't touch the WRs...do you need "bigger" CBs more or less than in the past ? On the one hand, you don't because you can't outmuscle the WRs and manhandle them as much as in the past ( when Wolf authored those comments)
On the other hand, if you can't be as physical, then you might prefer a longer CB who can battle for the 50/50 ball. Is there an evolution in GB thresholds, or they still exist, but for different reasons ? Jaire seems to handle it pretty well, despite his stature.

[paco]

These numbers don't bode well for the Packers usual thresholds.

The question becomes, are the usual thresholds still valid in the modern NFL ?
With all of the changes to the rules- favoring offense, can't touch the WRs...do you need "bigger" CBs more or less than in the past ? On the one hand, you don't because you can't outmuscle the WRs and manhandle them as much as in the past ( when Wolf authored those comments)
On the other hand, if you can't be as physical, then you might prefer a longer CB who can battle for the 50/50 ball. Is there an evolution in GB thresholds, or they still exist, but for different reasons ? Jaire seems to handle it pretty well, despite his stature.

There has been evolution in the thresholds over the years. Or outright exceptions in some cases. But they've stayed pretty true to them in most cases for certain position groups. Will be interesting to see how or if that changes this year.

[go pak go]

I think Paulson Adebo is becoming my favorite prospect for us this year. At first I thought he was a mid round 3 guy. Now I think he may be much higher than that.

[YoHoChecko]

I think Paulson Adebo is becoming my favorite prospect for us this year. At first I thought he was a mid round 3 guy. Now I think he may be much higher than that.

If memory serves, he was considered someone who might come off the board in the 25 to 40 range had he come out last year, then sat out the year, and now is sort of out of sight, out of mind... but yeah, should still be a pretty good player. Nice to see his testing.

[YoHoChecko]

These numbers don't bode well for the Packers usual thresholds.

The question becomes, are the usual thresholds still valid in the modern NFL ?
With all of the changes to the rules- favoring offense, can't touch the WRs...do you need "bigger" CBs more or less than in the past ? On the one hand, you don't because you can't outmuscle the WRs and manhandle them as much as in the past ( when Wolf authored those comments)
On the other hand, if you can't be as physical, then you might prefer a longer CB who can battle for the 50/50 ball. Is there an evolution in GB thresholds, or they still exist, but for different reasons ? Jaire seems to handle it pretty well, despite his stature.

I kind of disagree that they don't bode well. The aggregate is more above-average than great... but also there isn't a single disqualifying trait. The 3-cone is under 7 seconds; the 40 is under 4.5; the height is above 5'10"; the vert is perfectly fine.

He doesn't have any traits that separate him positively OR negatively. He's got all the required measurables, and not much more. His game was always more about instincts and attitude and being responsive and quick-triggered. So he seems well-suited to make those things count.