Rodgers wants out

[Yoop]

But the on-the-record comments, to me, do shed light on this. It's wild that Rodgers signed a 6-year deal, was asked about being a Packer for life, and answered "this contract only guarantees 3 years, probably" and then exactly 3 years later, threw a fit over not having more guarantees added to it along the way. It's wild from a number of angles and relevant no matter whose "side" you're on. It shows full awareness of the process and an inkling that he may not have things go his way long before the team actually acted on that

well he was upset when Guty didn't move up for either Jefferson or Ayuik but moved up for his replacement.

I also don't buy into Gutys comment about taking LOve because all the receivers where gone, since he checked into taking Lock the draft prior and after Rodgers forced the front office to get rid of McCarthy, seems like Guty and Murphy where ready to move on from Rodgers then because he forced them to do there job, why check out a QB you'd have to sell the farm in a trade up to get? doesn't make sense unless you intend to dump Rodgers as soon as they have a ready to play replacement.

heres the thing, if Rodgers is so pissed with Guty that he wants him fired, then there has to be some truth that he favored taking Rodgers replacement versus trading up for a receiver, Rodgers has to know his best chance for a SB ring is here, but his distrust for Guty bothers him so much that he's willing to fore go it and move on.

[NCF]

But the on-the-record comments, to me, do shed light on this. It's wild that Rodgers signed a 6-year deal, was asked about being a Packer for life, and answered "this contract only guarantees 3 years, probably" and then exactly 3 years later, threw a fit over not having more guarantees added to it along the way. It's wild from a number of angles and relevant no matter whose "side" you're on. It shows full awareness of the process and an inkling that he may not have things go his way long before the team actually acted on that

well he was upset when Guty didn't move up for either Jefferson or Ayuik but moved up for his replacement.

I also don't buy into Gutys comment about taking LOve because all the receivers where gone, since he checked into taking Lock the draft prior and after Rodgers forced the front office to get rid of McCarthy, seems like Guty and Murphy where ready to move on from Rodgers then because he forced them to do there job, why check out a QB you'd have to sell the farm in a trade up to get? doesn't make sense unless you intend to dump Rodgers as soon as they have a ready to play replacement.

heres the thing, if Rodgers is so pissed with Guty that he wants him fired, then there has to be some truth that he favored taking Rodgers replacement versus trading up for a receiver, Rodgers has to know his best chance for a SB ring is here, but his distrust for Guty bothers him so much that he's willing to fore go it and move on.

Rodgers is a time traveller.

[Acrobat]

A lot of substance missing from Demovsky's article. More assumptions if anything. It would be great if there was someone who was actually in the know instead of the same regurgitations of vague public statements.

nothing vague with the article, you just want there to be so you can take the FO side, aren't you one of the people that want to start Love?

It doesn’t have any direct substance and anyone with the time could have summarized it like he did.

[Yoop]

nothing vague with the article, you just want there to be so you can take the FO side, aren't you one of the people that want to start Love?

I agree with both.

That was not vague. That's the opposite. Putting all the public statements that feel relevant into one place is the most concrete tracking of this, without relying on leaks and sources and behind the scenes rumor mills.

I agree, though, that substance is missing. For instance, the coaching search, as mentioned by drj. And the restructure that happened in late 2019 or early 2020, as previously mentioned by me.

But the on-the-record comments, to me, do shed light on this. It's wild that Rodgers signed a 6-year deal, was asked about being a Packer for life, and answered "this contract only guarantees 3 years, probably" and then exactly 3 years later, threw a fit over not having more guarantees added to it along the way. It's wild from a number of angles and relevant no matter whose "side" you're on. It shows full awareness of the process and an inkling that he may not have things go his way long before the team actually acted on that

Good point. I remember mentioning that sometime before when we were all wondering why the packers extended him a couple years early last time. It is possible that Rodgers doesn’t see a deal as valid if there is no more guarantees and this was all going to happen anyways as he fought for another extension or more guarantees. Certainly an unusual way to think about the contract, but it seems to be exactly how he thinks. Maybe in his mind the current deal is basically done and he is just holding out in hopes to get a new deal that he likes. Odd, but plausible.

basically Murphy gave Rodgers a 4 year extension with 2 years remaining on old contract, but only guaranteed the last 2 years of the old contract and 1 year of the new one, a year later Minny give Cousins a 3 year contract with all 3 years guaranteed, whether that plays into Rodgers now wanting more guarantee's, who knows, but I could see where it might

[Yoop]

A lot of substance missing from Demovsky's article. More assumptions if anything. It would be great if there was someone who was actually in the know instead of the same regurgitations of vague public statements.

nothing vague with the article, you just want there to be so you can take the FO side, aren't you one of the people that want to start Love?

It doesn’t have any direct substance and anyone with the time could have summarized it like he did.

it lays out in cronological order the events that led up to this, and I didn't see you summerize it as he did, so what are you bitching about? that he did it? or that you don't like the facts?

[YoHoChecko]

well he was upset when Guty didn't move up for either Jefferson or Ayuik but moved up for his replacement.

I also don't buy into Gutys comment about taking LOve because all the receivers where gone, since he checked into taking Lock the draft prior and after Rodgers forced the front office to get rid of McCarthy, seems like Guty and Murphy where ready to move on from Rodgers then because he forced them to do there job, why check out a QB you'd have to sell the farm in a trade up to get? doesn't make sense unless you intend to dump Rodgers as soon as they have a ready to play replacement.

heres the thing, if Rodgers is so pissed with Guty that he wants him fired, then there has to be some truth that he favored taking Rodgers replacement versus trading up for a receiver, Rodgers has to know his best chance for a SB ring is here, but his distrust for Guty bothers him so much that he's willing to fore go it and move on.

I mean multiple (admittedly unnamed) league sources seem to indicate the Packers were looking to acquire Justin Jefferson.

Draft day trades are a little complex, right? You want to safeguard your preferences and information, but you also have a limited time on the clock to work things out. Teams have, for as long as I can remember, reached out to each other IN ADVANCE of the draft and chatted through hypotheticals, like "if our guy is there at your pick, we're prepared to offer X to move up; is that something you'd be interested in?" and the responding team would say "if our board looks good for moving down, then we're amenable at X (or Y) level of compensation."

And then on the clock, when your guy is there, you reach out to teams on the clock and say "hey, are we good with that deal we talked about?" and the team will be like "sure, let's do it" OR like "actually we like our board where we are" OR "the board is a little different than we expected, so we could move back, but it'll take a little more than we discussed originally."

Ron Wolf talked about this process ages ago when discussing how often they traded with the 49ers at the time. Wolf's last draft, they did a deal with the 49ers the week prior to the draft and he openly answered a lot of questions about those mechanics.

But you can see it continue to play out in other, more recent news stories. For instance, the tv feed picked up a scene in the Bengals' draft room in which the Lions GM was on the phone and the Bengals guy said something along the lines of "The same deal we discussed? No, then we'll go ahead an make our pick."

So when you look at what happened in 2020, the Packers had obviously reached out in advance to teams ahead of them and talked about what it would take to make the trade up. But when teams were on the clock, either the WR run happened before Gutey thought it would, or the teams who had discussions pre-draft answered "no, then we'll make our pick."

Having already missed out on Jefferson and Reagor, the team was probably talking to the Dolphins about moving up to take Ayiuk at 26, when the 49ers jumped ahead of them and took him at 25. At that point, the Packers could have said "hey, nevermind, no deal." But they looked at their board, and their QB situation--and they had OBVIOUSLY talked about drafting a QB, given the Lock flirtation and given the February press conference referenced in the timeline in which he specifically was asked about it and openly did not rule it out--so instead they saw a guy they probably had a full tier or two above the other remaining players and said "hey, we'll go ahead with the deal we discussed and take this guy instead."

Gutey is not a patient drafter. He has moved up in 3 of the 4 first rounds he's participated in (though one after moving down). So he made his move. It wasn't a whim, exactly. But it also was highly unlikely to be "the plan," considering not only that HE said they had been trying to move up to get a WR in that range, but also that other sources around the league seemed to corroborate that, in terms of having an idea who "their guy" was when they were trying to make the move on the clock. Maybe they wouldn't give out specific names, but they were giving out positions, because teams don't want to trade back with you if you're going to take a guy or a position that they themselves are hoping to acquire.

That happened to me with 23 in a dynasty draft once, where I moved back and he took the player I myself was targeting, and I was so mad at myself because didn't ask anything before agreeing to the trade.

So there's no reason to doubt that the team was focusing on WRs--the same way a few league executives have indicated their belief that the Packers were ready to take Bateman this year in round one, had he not gone 2 picks earlier to the Ravens.

That the team had looked into QBs they found to have high upside and potential late round 1 or early round 2 availability does not mean they were locked into a QB or any particular QB. It means they had reached the point in Rodgers' career in which it was time to start doing due diligence on the top QBs in case one falls. Famously, the team had done less research on Rodgers in 2005 because they thought he wouldn't be available. That has been vastly overstated and exaggerated in the press--the team had scouted him a reasonable amount--but TT allegedly had the Packers calling sources as Rodgers fell to make sure there wasn't something they had missed before taking him.

The Packers are at a point where they won't allow themselves to be caught off guard again because they know they might need an heir and they might be in a position to take one, so their QB evaluations are going to be as thorough as the position demands now. That's what it means that they visited with Lock and that they drafted Love. That they were no longer in a "QBs are off our board early" stage of team building. That's it. By almost every account, the team PREFERRED to take one of the WRs last year (and Jefferson was their favorite in that draft range) and that they were open to it again this year (and that Bateman and Toney were their favorites this year).

I've seen all of those rumors from multiple people who do more reporting than parroting, and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

Sorry, this was long.

[Acrobat]

nothing vague with the article, you just want there to be so you can take the FO side, aren't you one of the people that want to start Love?

It doesn’t have any direct substance and anyone with the time could have summarized it like he did.

it lays out in cronological order the events that led up to this, and I didn't see you summerize it as he did, so what are you bitching about? that he did it? or that you don't like the facts?

Sorry if I hit a nerve Mr. "I literally argue with everyone". I just saw a couple comments that it was a useful article, and then I read it and didn't find it useful because there wasn't anything new that I didn't know about already, and commented such feelings.

[Drj820]

But the on-the-record comments, to me, do shed light on this. It's wild that Rodgers signed a 6-year deal, was asked about being a Packer for life, and answered "this contract only guarantees 3 years, probably" and then exactly 3 years later, threw a fit over not having more guarantees added to it along the way. It's wild from a number of angles and relevant no matter whose "side" you're on. It shows full awareness of the process and an inkling that he may not have things go his way long before the team actually acted on that

well he was upset when Guty didn't move up for either Jefferson or Ayuik but moved up for his replacement.

I also don't buy into Gutys comment about taking LOve because all the receivers where gone, since he checked into taking Lock the draft prior and after Rodgers forced the front office to get rid of McCarthy, seems like Guty and Murphy where ready to move on from Rodgers then because he forced them to do there job, why check out a QB you'd have to sell the farm in a trade up to get? doesn't make sense unless you intend to dump Rodgers as soon as they have a ready to play replacement.

heres the thing, if Rodgers is so pissed with Guty that he wants him fired, then there has to be some truth that he favored taking Rodgers replacement versus trading up for a receiver, Rodgers has to know his best chance for a SB ring is here, but his distrust for Guty bothers him so much that he's willing to fore go it and move on.

In your own way I think you are describing something here that has merit. Murphy and his son Gutey want Guteys kids to sit down, shut up, and do their jobs. Rodgers was vocal about McCarthy being fired. Murphy and Gutey may have really resented how the narrative was that Rodgers got him fired instead of the org firing MM because it was the right thing to do. So, they started actively looking for who would come next, and not just passively. They hosted Locke on a visit, moved UP to get what now is proving to be a total project. There actions were screaming that they want silent children who play their roles and Rodgers was getting a little too much attention.

I have never bought the narrative that the deepest draft for WRs in history was out of WRs by the time we picked. Thats just what was offered and bought hook, line, and sinker by many. Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, and Shenault could all be useful for this team. Now maybe we didnt need them to be successful, that is probably true all the way up to the NFCCG, but to sell the narrative that they wanted a WR but there were none left so they moved up to draft the QB is just bogus spin to me. They moved up to get Love because they hope Love would be their faithful silent soldier and replace Rodgers when he is ready.

Rodgers may be prickly, but he is right about the orgs intentions. They want to control his destiny, and he wants to control his destiny. Thus, here we are.

[NCF]

there wasn't anything new that I didn't know about already, and commented such feelings.

[Acrobat]

there wasn't anything new that I didn't know about already, and commented such feelings.

It must be because I'm a fan of Jordan Love's potential!!!

[go pak go]

so then according to you Rodgers is responsible for the team losing the playoff games, I'am starting to hope he sits out, and forces a trade, see how you and others here deal with that.

Not even close to what I said.

sure it is, your insinuating that Rodgers makes no difference to the outcome of those games, quit beating around the bush

Yeah I can get behind what you said there on the quote I am quoting. I did say that because history shows that the statement you just made is true.

1-4 don't lie. That's a lot of data points. And the only win in that group came from an offense that scored 14 points and the defense scored 7 points for the Packers.

[Drj820]

Also, just another little thing i just thought of. Remember when MM was triggered how the org handled his firing. He said it "couldnt have been handled any worse". Apparently he wanted them to wait till the next day to announce it or something but Murphy marched down to his office as emotions were still hot and dropped the SB winning coach.

Not saying MM didnt deserved to get canned. He did. Just saying there seems to be a real theme of Murphy and Gute leaving horrible tastes in peoples mouths as they show them the door.

[YoHoChecko]

I have never bought the narrative that the deepest draft for WRs in history was out of WRs by the time we picked. Thats just what was offered and bought hook, line, and sinker by many. Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, and Shenault could all be useful for this team. Now maybe we didnt need them to be successful, that is probably true all the way up to the NFCCG, but to sell the narrative that they wanted a WR but there were none left so they moved up to draft the QB is just bogus spin to me. They moved up to get Love because they hope Love would be their faithful silent soldier and replace Rodgers when he is ready.

There is a HUGE difference between saying they were "out of WRs" and saying they didn't value the remaining WRs in the same amount as the other potential picks on the board. After Shenault's disappointing 40-time, I too would value Pittman, Higgins, and Shenault more as a mid-late round two prospects. I also had very little interest in Pittman or Higgins because they offered duplicative skillsets to the ones on the team. If you look at the guys the Packers actually WERE targeting--Ayoiuk, Reagor, and Jefferson last year; Bateman and Rodgers this year--you see that the 6'5" athletes who are more smooth than sudden are not high on the team's priority list. MLF has talked about putting a basketball team on the field. You can't be all power forwards.

So when stacking the board FOR THE PACKERS, because individual team boards take account of what types of players, specifically, they are looking for--of course Pittman and Higgins were lower. And adding either of them likely wouldn't have been any different in years one or even 2 than having Lazard (Pittman) or MVS (Higgins) on the team. Having a guy with great separation and enough speed like Bateman or Jefferson would have created a different model for our #2 WR. Adding a slot/gadget like Ayiuk, Shenault, or Amari Rodgers would also add a different skillset.

So all of this is to say that if Shenault's injuries and/or speed scared them off from him, it's completely valid to say "after Ayiuk was gone, there were no remaining 1st round pick values at WR for them." I agree with that. Now, would I have traded back and targeted Shenault instead of trading up and targeting Love? I would have tried that, yes. That would have been my preference there. But they had a player high on their board and he was there and they knew they'd need a QB eventually--if only as a cheap backup to Rodgers in years 2-4 of the remaining contract who could then net them a deal in a trade OR become the heir.

The whole "there wasn't a WR worth the pick there" isn't a myth because there were other WRs. It just means those WRs were further down the Packers' board--by a lot--than Jordan Love and the WRs they targeted.

[YoHoChecko]

Also, just another little thing i just thought of. Remember when MM was triggered how the org handled his firing. He said it "couldnt have been handled any worse". Apparently he wanted them to wait till the next day to announce it or something but Murphy marched down to his office as emotions were still hot and dropped the SB winning coach.

Not saying MM didnt deserved to get canned. He did. Just saying there seems to be a real theme of Murphy and Gute leaving horrible tastes in peoples mouths as they show them the door.

This is very true, it's been a thing I dislike about the org for a while. I feel like it predated Gutey, even. There is just silence when you're going to let someone walk; and the cuts/firings/etc don't seem to be communicated well or handled gracefully.

I think the community development role, which was held for a long time (and maybe still is but I haven't checked in a while) by former player Rob Davis, should maybe have an expanded role in player relations, as he's sort of a player relations role already. The org should empower that role to work with the Front Office to better manage player communication and have a finger on the pulse of the team (which the head coach also has, but it's best not to put the coach in a dicey role of mediator like that when it's more important for the players to like the coaching staff)

[Drj820]

I have never bought the narrative that the deepest draft for WRs in history was out of WRs by the time we picked. Thats just what was offered and bought hook, line, and sinker by many. Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, and Shenault could all be useful for this team. Now maybe we didnt need them to be successful, that is probably true all the way up to the NFCCG, but to sell the narrative that they wanted a WR but there were none left so they moved up to draft the QB is just bogus spin to me. They moved up to get Love because they hope Love would be their faithful silent soldier and replace Rodgers when he is ready.

There is a HUGE difference between saying they were "out of WRs" and saying they didn't value the remaining WRs in the same amount as the other potential picks on the board. After Shenault's disappointing 40-time, I too would value Pittman, Higgins, and Shenault more as a mid-late round two prospects. I also had very little interest in Pittman or Higgins because they offered duplicative skillsets to the ones on the team. If you look at the guys the Packers actually WERE targeting--Ayoiuk, Reagor, and Jefferson last year; Bateman and Rodgers this year--you see that the 6'5" athletes who are more smooth than sudden are not high on the team's priority list. MLF has talked about putting a basketball team on the field. You can't be all power forwards.

So when stacking the board FOR THE PACKERS, because individual team boards take account of what types of players, specifically, they are looking for--of course Pittman and Higgins were lower. And adding either of them likely wouldn't have been any different in years one or even 2 than having Lazard (Pittman) or MVS (Higgins) on the team. Having a guy with great separation and enough speed like Bateman or Jefferson would have created a different model for our #2 WR. Adding a slot/gadget like Ayiuk, Shenault, or Amari Rodgers would also add a different skillset.

So all of this is to say that if Shenault's injuries and/or speed scared them off from him, it's completely valid to say "after Ayiuk was gone, there were no remaining 1st round pick values at WR for them." I agree with that. Now, would I have traded back and targeted Shenault instead of trading up and targeting Love? I would have tried that, yes. That would have been my preference there. But they had a player high on their board and he was there and they knew they'd need a QB eventually--if only as a cheap backup to Rodgers in years 2-4 of the remaining contract who could then net them a deal in a trade OR become the heir.

The whole "there wasn't a WR worth the pick there" isn't a myth because there were other WRs. It just means those WRs were further down the Packers' board--by a lot--than Jordan Love and the WRs they targeted.

I understand your take and value it. My point was really multi fold:
1 they could have moved back and grabbed any of those three that was available

2) I agree shenaulr was a mid 2, but Pittman in their original draft spot was not a reach to me. Put Pittman opposite adams and dump the rest of the projects
Lazard is not great. He’s adequate. Upgrading the position would have been cool. I see Pittman as a huge upgrade. Same for Tee over MVS. Massive upgrade.

3) my main point was that Love didn’t just fall in their lap. They went up to get him. Before drafting him they looked hard at drew locke...Love didn’t just fall from the sky so they grabbed him. They WANTED a qb, we’re searching for a qb, and moved up to grab one.

I’m just spitting at the narrative that 1) there wasn’t options for acquiring a wr and 2) love just fell in their lap so awe schucks guess we better take him.

That’s my take on it. I understand the rationale for not taking a WR there, and other than the NFCCG we didn’t need one. I’m just saying we grabbed a qb bc we wanted a qb. We were qb hunting.

[YoHoChecko]

That’s my take on it. I understand the rationale for not taking a WR there, and other than the NFCCG we didn’t need one. I’m just saying we grabbed a qb bc we wanted a qb. We were qb hunting.

Right, and for me, if sticking with the hunting analogy, I'm just saying that they went out hunting for deer (WRs), but we also had lifted the prohibition on bear (QB) hunting. And so when they saw a bear, they went ahead and hunted it even though they expected to come home with a buck in the truck, they were perfectly happy to come back with a bear. That we lifted the bear prohibition is noteworthy, but it doesn't mean we were determined to hunt bears. It just meant it was open season.

It's a subtle difference but one I am extremely confident in. If they wanted a high-end QB, there wouldn't be so many league sources with a strong impression that the team was after Justin Jefferson. The logic of not reaching for a need position and taking the best player prevailed there.

The trade up always bothered me, also, though. I'd prefer to wait until the bear was rushing you to shoot it. Instead they pulled an old school South Park, yelled "he's comin' right for us!" and let that justify their hunt. I agree that he did not fall into our laps. We decided, at some point, that getting a really big, talented bear was worth pursuing once we caught sight of it, rather than sat back and staying in our perch and letting it wander past while we examined the deer prospects.

I've never gone hunting in my life, so excuse me if this makes no sense.

[wallyuwl]

[Yoop]

there wasn't anything new that I didn't know about already, and commented such feelings.

It must be because I'm a fan of Jordan Love's potential!!!

MR, thats more like it, a little respect will usually get me to over look all sorts of mis leading comments, BUT NOT THIS ONE, you, me, and even Guty and Lafluer hardly know what LOve will become, less then 40% of first round picked QB's never see a second contract from the team that drafts them, so the odds are against Love, now obviously there are other issues in play for those small percentages, still, while we all hope Love beats the odds, we don't have anything tangible to say he will at this stage.

I am sorry if I came off a bit harsh Acrobat, my people skills are worse then both Guty and Murph put together

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Somewhere between hunting deer and basketball I lost the thread...

[bud fox]

The team should've drafted DK Metcalf - his workout footage was some of the best ever.

The team should've drafted Tee Higgins - great game tape and his rookie year backed it up.

The team now only has 1 wr (3rd round rookie) signed beyond this year. It is essentially the most complimentary position to a QB and for the packers it has had the least amount of resources spent on it (inside backer is less if being specific).

The pack have gone with the thought process that Rodgers is good enough to carry any receiver group.