Plant Your Flag

[NCF]

I also want to say, and I know others will disagree....

If Rodgers was a team's day one starter as a rookie, I doubt he ever makes a Pro Bowl, let alone sniffs the Hall of Fame. I truly believe that. This is how firmly I believe in the power of development and easing a player into the most difficult position in football. Rodgers' legacy could just as easily be that of David Carr, the "can't-miss sure-fire" top pick who got crushed by the ineptitude of his supporting cast and never recovered.

I agree completely.

[YoHoChecko]

well I don't know about, just look what the gunslinger Favre was able to do with baptism under fire, it's hard to say, the thing that I I saw with Rodgers in 06 PS was that he didn't seem to get raddled under pressure, he still needed to work on his progressions and the natural tunnel vision that most rookies have, but he had a calm about him that sets rookies apart.

I agree the pro game is soooo much faster then college, every rookie QB would be best served to sit at least one season, and thats why I don't want to see Love start this year, in fact If we lose Rodgers, I'd want Guty to go get a vet, I know we did with Bortles but he seems to act like he's in a comma, I think we could do better.

getting back to bust rate first round QB's even minus day one starters the success rate is terrible, so till Love proves me wrong I don't have a lot of confidence.

Favre spent his rookie year as a 3rd stringer who got into the games in blowouts and such only enough to go 0 for 5 with 2 INTs.

He was not given a baptism by fire. He sat for a year, learned, nearly drank himself out of the league, and then got traded to a place that took his coaching and development more seriously.

Favre, too, had he not been traded to a place with a fresh start and a QB guru or three on staff, would never have been a Hall of Famer. He may never have played. Ron Wolf didn't just save the Packers by trading for Favre. He saved Favre. This is a guy who would have Ryan Leafed himself by the end of his rookie contract had the Falcons not found someone to take him off their hands. (Though Leaf was a top 3 pick and Favre a 2nd rounder)

[Yoop]

2006 comes along, Rodgers looks a little better in 2006 preseason but then looks terrible vs his only snaps of the season vs New England before tearing his ACL. And I mean he looked terrible. MM praised Rodgers and his "QB school" but that was perceived as just coach talk at the time. Again people thought, "should we have kept Nall instead?" This was a legit conversation of why the Packers spent a 1st rounder on Rodgers when they already had the developmental quarterback who was less than 50% completion in 30 pass attempts and tore his ACL after playing like 1.5 quarters (remember we were used to ironman Favre)

2007 training camp rolls around after the 2nd QB school and then everyone is like "oh. okay" That is the first time you start hearing from coaches and the like that this kid is legit. Admittedly there had to be some 1265 love on Rodgers because there was rumors of Raiders wanting to trade Moss for Rodgers but that didn't happen. Of course that could also be that the trade market was a lot lower than Oakland thought as they only got a 4th rounder for Moss.

who said this stuff, I don't remember anyone thinking Craig Nall was better then Rodgers ever, not in 06 or later, and Sherman had NO say in anything when Rodgers was drafted, in fact almost everyone I new figured 06 was Shermans last year, which it was, I also never remember any talk of trading Rodgers for Moss (ever) hell Ted wouldn't even part witha 3rd round pick to get Moss, he sure as hell wasn't going to part with Rodgers for him.

whether you or anyone else here want to accept it, Rodgers could have stepped in and done pretty well as a rookie, he was far more ready to do so then Love was last year.

[Gunzaan]

I voted no - I just don’t think he can be very good, even with extended development.

I hope I’m wrong.

[go pak go]

2006 comes along, Rodgers looks a little better in 2006 preseason but then looks terrible vs his only snaps of the season vs New England before tearing his ACL. And I mean he looked terrible. MM praised Rodgers and his "QB school" but that was perceived as just coach talk at the time. Again people thought, "should we have kept Nall instead?" This was a legit conversation of why the Packers spent a 1st rounder on Rodgers when they already had the developmental quarterback who was less than 50% completion in 30 pass attempts and tore his ACL after playing like 1.5 quarters (remember we were used to ironman Favre)

2007 training camp rolls around after the 2nd QB school and then everyone is like "oh. okay" That is the first time you start hearing from coaches and the like that this kid is legit. Admittedly there had to be some 1265 love on Rodgers because there was rumors of Raiders wanting to trade Moss for Rodgers but that didn't happen. Of course that could also be that the trade market was a lot lower than Oakland thought as they only got a 4th rounder for Moss.

who said this stuff, I don't remember anyone thinking Craig Nall was better then Rodgers ever, not in 06 or later, and Sherman had NO say in anything when Rodgers was drafted, in fact almost everyone I new figured 06 was Shermans last year, which it was, I also never remember any talk of trading Rodgers for Moss (ever) hell Ted wouldn't even part witha 3rd round pick to get Moss, he sure as hell wasn't going to part with Rodgers for him.

No offense yoop, but I'm not too concerned as using your memory being authoritative guidance here. Especially when Sherman's last year was 2005. Not 2006.

[YoHoChecko]

Ok, so here's a roster prediction from the 2005 preseason:

Backup QB: Not knowing how much longer Brett Favre will continue to play the Packers addressed their future needs at the position by drafting Aaron Rodgers with the 24th pick in the 2004 draft. Rodgers appears to be an exceptional value having fallen from the potential first pick in the draft to the Packers. Rodgers has a strong arm, good accuracy and could potentially take over next year as the Packers trigger man. Despite his long-term potential, it was apparent in training camp that Rodgers isn't ready for prime time yet. As a result, Craig Nall will once again serve as Favre's game day backup.

Here's a packers.com item about the depth chart in 2005 training camp:

Favre's durability is well-documented as he has started an NFL-record 205 consecutive games, but if he does get hurt, training camp likely will determine his backups. Craig Nall, entering his fourth year with the Packers, has the advantage of knowing the offense, and Head Coach Mike Sherman has him slated as Favre's backup. J.T. O'Sullivan and first-round draft pick Aaron Rodgers are third and fourth on the depth chart, respectively. Rodgers impressed during the first OTA, but additional plays offered during the second OTA bogged him down and affected his mechanics.

Here's an ESPN report about Rodgers entering training camp:

Rodgers, 21, will have to vie with veterans Craig Nall and J.T. O'Sullivan for the No. 2 job behind Favre this year. Rodgers was said to have been inconsistent in mini-camps.

And here's your buddy Bob McGinn talking about Nall a couple years later:

QB CRAIG NALL: He actually outplayed Aaron Rodgers in 2005, his fourth season in Green Bay, but was declared No. 3 behind Brett Favre and Rodgers.

[go pak go]

the thing that I I saw with Rodgers in 06 PS was that he didn't seem to get raddled under pressure, he still needed to work on his progressions and the natural tunnel vision that most rookies have, but he had a calm about him that sets rookies apart.

We don't have to go by memory. His stats stunk. His video stunk.

If Jordan Love did what Rodgers did prior to 2007, people would be calling for his head. There isn't much video, but there is some. This is 2006. The first play should have been a pick 6.

[Yoop]

well I don't know about, just look what the gunslinger Favre was able to do with baptism under fire, it's hard to say, the thing that I I saw with Rodgers in 06 PS was that he didn't seem to get raddled under pressure, he still needed to work on his progressions and the natural tunnel vision that most rookies have, but he had a calm about him that sets rookies apart.

I agree the pro game is soooo much faster then college, every rookie QB would be best served to sit at least one season, and thats why I don't want to see Love start this year, in fact If we lose Rodgers, I'd want Guty to go get a vet, I know we did with Bortles but he seems to act like he's in a comma, I think we could do better.

getting back to bust rate first round QB's even minus day one starters the success rate is terrible, so till Love proves me wrong I don't have a lot of confidence.

Favre spent his rookie year as a 3rd stringer who got into the games in blowouts and such only enough to go 0 for 5 with 2 INTs.

He was not given a baptism by fire. He sat for a year, learned, nearly drank himself out of the league, and then got traded to a place that took his coaching and development more seriously.

Favre, too, had he not been traded to a place with a fresh start and a QB guru or three on staff, would never have been a Hall of Famer. He may never have played. Ron Wolf didn't just save the Packers by trading for Favre. He saved Favre. This is a guy who would have Ryan Leafed himself by the end of his rookie contract had the Falcons not found someone to take him off their hands. (Though Leaf was a top 3 pick and Favre a 2nd rounder)

well that was partly my point, though I didn't express it well, still as Holmgren said Favre was only trainable to a point, he admitted a lot of what Brett could do ya didn't want to mess with, ya take the good with the bad to a point.

again you and others seem hell bent on saying that under great tutalege Love can be as good as these two, and I'am saying I'll believe that when I see it.

Ghost was spot on, throwing balls at the hoop at 10 or so yrds doesn't mean a hill of beans, I can go in my back yard and do that and hit it 8 out of 10 all day long.

as you said in 05 6 QB's where taken top 40 slotting, or something like that, so where do you think Rodgers would have ranked in that group? I also remember McCarthy saying if he had that draft to do over he would have pushed harder for the team to take Rodgers, hind sight being 20/20 obviously played into that, still look at how many others have said SF really pooched that pick.

[NCF]

The first play should have been a pick 6.

It literally doesn't get uglier than that play.

[go pak go]

again you and others seem hell bent on saying that under great tutalege Love can be as good as these two, and I'am saying I'll believe that when I see it.

I don't think anyone expecting Love to be at the level of top 5 to 10 greatest quarterbacks in NFL history.

I think the larger message from the "Love guys" is setting the reality and expectation that we need to give Love time and just because he doesn't look ready now doesn't mean isn't going to be good.

It just means he needs more time.

I agree with you that just based on data, the chances of Love being a below what we want is significantly greater than Love being better than what we want (which is what Rodgers ended up being). But I fear the guy won't be given a chance to ever become what he can become based on external circumstances.

It's why I want Rodgers to decide to come back this year really, really bad.

[go pak go]

The first play should have been a pick 6.

It literally doesn't get uglier than that play.

I know. I just think to myself, "would if Love came in and spelled Rodgers and did that?"

The reaction would be unreal from national media and Packers fans.

[Yoop]

the thing that I I saw with Rodgers in 06 PS was that he didn't seem to get raddled under pressure, he still needed to work on his progressions and the natural tunnel vision that most rookies have, but he had a calm about him that sets rookies apart.

We don't have to go by memory. His stats stunk. His video stunk.

If Jordan Love did what Rodgers did prior to 2007, people would be calling for his head. There isn't much video, but there is some. This is 2006. The first play should have been a pick 6.

under pressure from one of the best defenses in the league, sure, he still had stuff to learn, the next throw to driver was where only Driver could catch it.

we'll see how Love does,

[NCF]

again you and others seem hell bent on saying that under great tutalege Love can be as good as these two, and I'am saying I'll believe that when I see it.

I don't think anyone expecting Love to be at the level of top 5 to 10 greatest quarterbacks in NFL history.

I think the larger message from the "Love guys" is setting the reality and expectation that we need to give Love time and just because he doesn't look ready now doesn't mean isn't going to be good.

It just means he needs more time.

I agree with you that just based on data, the chances of Love being a below what we want is significantly greater than Love being better than what we want (which is what Rodgers ended up being). But I fear the guy won't be given a chance to ever become what he can become based on external circumstances.

It's why I want Rodgers to decide to come back this year really, really bad.

I mean, Favre/Rodgers level is absolutely what Love should be striving for. This is where the law of averages is against him... I think everyone clearly understands that. What I am hell bent on saying is that under great tutelage, Love can be good. Period. No qualifiers needed. No comparisons appropriate. Just good. That's enough for now. Everything else is gravy.

[YoHoChecko]

I was in the press box in Baltimore for what I think was Rodgers' first extended playing time.

If I remember right, he threw 2 INTs and fumbled twice, losing one.

The visiting team management was also in the press box (the press box and team management boxes were the same box without even having a divider in there--dunno if that's changed). I was maybe 15 feet from Ted Thompson. The poor guy sat there looking like he'd seen a ghost the whole time (I mean, the Packers lost 40 something to single digits; it wasn't just Rodgers). But it was fascinating getting to see TT react to his new draft pick in real time.

Anyway, the national media reaction to Rodgers' struggles in years one and two were no more tame than they would be/will be when/if Love has some hiccups and bumps in the road. It was brutal back then. Absolutely brutal.

[go pak go]

under pressure from one of the best defenses in the league, sure, he still had stuff to learn, the next throw to driver was where only Driver could catch it.

we'll see how Love does,

Yes. New England's defense was great that year.

It was still an absolute horrible throw and decision. Which also shows that Rodgers was not able to step in and perform well like you stated he could. Because when he did, he was like 15 of 31 for like 110 yards and 3 turnovers in about 3 quarters of play. That's about as bad as it gets.

Yes. Rodgers had LOT to learn. And the thing is he did. He turned into what we know today.

That is our point. Rodgers was able to stew and brew which led to a lot of his success. It is why I want Jordan to get the same benefit.

[Pckfn23]

whether you or anyone else here want to accept it, Rodgers could have stepped in and done pretty well as a rookie, he was far more ready to do so then Love was last year.

No Rodgers could not have. He wasn't ready just as Jordan Love wasn't ready.

[go pak go]

I was in the press box in Baltimore for what I think was Rodgers' first extended playing time.

If I remember right, he threw 2 INTs and fumbled twice, losing one.

The visiting team management was also in the press box (the press box and team management boxes were the same box without even having a divider in there--dunno if that's changed). I was maybe 15 feet from Ted Thompson. The poor guy sat there looking like he'd seen a ghost the whole time (I mean, the Packers lost 40 something to single digits; it wasn't just Rodgers). But it was fascinating getting to see TT react to his new draft pick in real time.

Anyway, the national media reaction to Rodgers' struggles in years one and two were no more tame than they would be/will be when/if Love has some hiccups and bumps in the road. It was brutal back then. Absolutely brutal.

I was in GB in 2008 for training camp. That poor guy went through so much sh*t. They actually had to have security around him because he received death threats.

Rodgers went through a LOT.

[YoHoChecko]

whether you or anyone else here want to accept it, Rodgers could have stepped in and done pretty well as a rookie, he was far more ready to do so then Love was last year.

No Rodgers could not have. He wasn't ready just as Jordan Love wasn't ready.

In limited action over his first two seasons Rodgers appeared in 5 games.

Here's how that looked:

image.png (18.09 KiB) Viewed 423 times

He also tore his ACL and broke his foot in his first 3 seasons despite barely playing.

And fumbled 3 times

[NCF]

whether you or anyone else here want to accept it, Rodgers could have stepped in and done pretty well as a rookie, he was far more ready to do so then Love was last year.

No Rodgers could not have. He wasn't ready just as Jordan Love wasn't ready.

This is a highlight reel. No wow throws. No accuracy down the field. Lack of timing and anticipation. This is Aaron Rodgers. Almost impossible to believe, but this was him. He was NOT ready.

[go pak go]

whether you or anyone else here want to accept it, Rodgers could have stepped in and done pretty well as a rookie, he was far more ready to do so then Love was last year.

No Rodgers could not have. He wasn't ready just as Jordan Love wasn't ready.

This is a highlight reel. No wow throws. No accuracy down the field. Lack of timing and anticipation. This is Aaron Rodgers. Almost impossible to believe, but this was him. He was NOT ready.

Literally the top comments on this youtube video.

His throw is so disgusting. Love is miles ahead of Rodgers in terms of quick release.

image.png (59.07 KiB) Viewed 429 times