Plant Your Flag

[salmar80]

I was in the press box in Baltimore for what I think was Rodgers' first extended playing time.

If I remember right, he threw 2 INTs and fumbled twice, losing one.

The visiting team management was also in the press box (the press box and team management boxes were the same box without even having a divider in there--dunno if that's changed). I was maybe 15 feet from Ted Thompson. The poor guy sat there looking like he'd seen a ghost the whole time (I mean, the Packers lost 40 something to single digits; it wasn't just Rodgers). But it was fascinating getting to see TT react to his new draft pick in real time.

Anyway, the national media reaction to Rodgers' struggles in years one and two were no more tame than they would be/will be when/if Love has some hiccups and bumps in the road. It was brutal back then. Absolutely brutal.

I was in GB in 2008 for training camp. That poor guy went through so much sh*t. They actually had to have security around him because he received death threats.

Rodgers went through a LOT.

Packersplanet was the place to be back in those 2005-2006 years, and Rodgers got a shellacking from that crowd after looking bad in those first two years. Anyone even remotely supporting or trying to understand TT or the Rodgers pick was called a TTard. I was one, but I wish I could see what exactly I thought back then... There were websites for firing TT. Fun times.

I also would've LOVED to record the bar talk when GB traded a 1st rounder for Favre, a guy with the most horrific stat line of any QB ever at that point.

[Yoop]

under pressure from one of the best defenses in the league, sure, he still had stuff to learn, the next throw to driver was where only Driver could catch it.

we'll see how Love does,

Yes. New England's defense was great that year.

It was still an absolute horrible throw and decision. Which also shows that Rodgers was not able to step in and perform well like you stated he could. Because when he did, he was like 15 of 31 for like 110 yards and 3 turnovers in about 3 quarters of play. That's about as bad as it gets.

Yes. Rodgers had LOT to learn. And the thing is he did. He turned into what we know today.

That is our point. Rodgers was able to stew and brew which led to a lot of his success. It is why I want Jordan to get the same benefit.

well then call Guty and tell him to bow to whatever Rodgers wants and you'll get your wish.

and every vet QB throws terrible passes at times, and 50% passing to, even the best seasoned QB's do that, I don't even have to watch that whole vid to see that NE's pass rush was destroying any on schedule passing for Rodgers, and it may have been just about as bad if Favre had been playing. my point was and still is that Rodgers had looked better that season at different times, and you bunch of yokels just voted that Love will be a successful QB and you aint seen nothing, nada, accept he can hit a freaking net at 10 yrds 7 out of 10 times

[NCF]

and you bunch of yokels just voted that Love will be a successful QB and you aint seen nothing, nada, accept he can hit a freaking net at 10 yrds 7 out of 10 times

I saw a lot of 2018. That's what I see. That happened and it happened in a manner that is very translatable to the NFL. 2019 obviously didn't go nearly as well and you're right, I have nothing in 2020 to base any opinion on, but I saw all I needed to in his 2018 film to believe he can do it.

[go pak go]

well then call Guty and tell him to bow to whatever Rodgers wants and you'll get your wish.

My wish is Rodgers realizes he has a great opportunity for 2021 and comes back. I don't want the Packers to bend for Rodgers when we are already giving him a great contract and team around him for 2021.

and every vet QB throws terrible passes at times, and 50% passing to, even the best seasoned QB's do that,

yeah if the seasoned vets you are referring to are Chase Daniels or other seasoned backup vets. Rodgers stats which I have brought up and YoHo have brought up are TERRIBLE. 15 of 31. No TDs. Multiple turnovers. 111 yards.

I don't even have to watch that whole vid to see that NE's pass rush was destroying any on schedule passing for Rodgers, and it may have been just about as bad if Favre had been playing. my point was and still is that Rodgers had looked better that season at different times, and you bunch of yokels just voted that Love will be a successful QB and you aint seen nothing, nada, accept he can hit a freaking net at 10 yrds 7 out of 10 times

And this is in a nutshell why people have a hard time getting along with you on this forum. In your head you are always right but provide no support outside of a quick Yahoo article search but primarily your "memory"

Meanwhile we have a whole page of people who devoted time and research to not only bring stats, but also bring very hard to find articles, opinions, op eds, PERSONAL STORIES WHEN IN THE SAME FREAKING ROOM AS TED THOMPSON and writer summaries of Rodgers AND even film of Rodgers and you don't even bother to watch or read any of it but instead stick to your guns of, "like I said...I am right. Rodgers looked better at other times that season (even though he broke his foot in that New England game and went on IR...but okay) I always knew Rodgers was great yada yada yada."

It is honestly disrespectful.

And I know for a fact you were part of the group that "Favre is going to take us to the SB and Rodgers will go nowhere but the Toilet Bowl" in Julie's world. And like whatever. None of us knew Rodgers would turn into what he is, but this whole 15 years later "I knew the guy would be awesome thing" is just wrong.

[Yoop]

well then call Guty and tell him to bow to whatever Rodgers wants and you'll get your wish.

My wish is Rodgers realizes he has a great opportunity for 2021 and comes back. I don't want the Packers to bend for Rodgers when we are already giving him a great contract and team around him for 2021.

and every vet QB throws terrible passes at times, and 50% passing to, even the best seasoned QB's do that,

yeah if the seasoned vets you are referring to are Chase Daniels or other seasoned backup vets. Rodgers stats which I have brought up and YoHo have brought up are TERRIBLE. 15 of 31. No TDs. Multiple turnovers. 111 yards.

I don't even have to watch that whole vid to see that NE's pass rush was destroying any on schedule passing for Rodgers, and it may have been just about as bad if Favre had been playing. my point was and still is that Rodgers had looked better that season at different times, and you bunch of yokels just voted that Love will be a successful QB and you aint seen nothing, nada, accept he can hit a freaking net at 10 yrds 7 out of 10 times

And this is in a nutshell why people have a hard time getting along with you on this forum. In your head you are always right but provide no support outside of a quick Yahoo article search but primarily your "memory"

Meanwhile we have a whole page of people who devoted time and research to not only bring stats, but also bring very hard to find articles, opinions, op eds, PERSONAL STORIES WHEN IN THE SAME FREAKING ROOM AS TED THOMPSON and writer summaries of Rodgers AND even film of Rodgers and you don't even bother to watch or read any of it but instead stick to your guns of, "like I said...I am right. Rodgers looked better at other times that season (even though he broke his foot in that New England game and went on IR...but okay) I always knew Rodgers was great yada yada yada."

It is honestly disrespectful.

And I know for a fact you were part of the group that "Favre is going to take us to the SB and Rodgers will go nowhere but the Toilet Bowl" in Julie's world. And like whatever. None of us knew Rodgers would turn into what he is, but this whole 15 years later "I knew the guy would be awesome thing" is just wrong.

Bull &%$@, I've listened and actually agree with a lot of whats been said, just not your point of view completely, and spare me the Jullieville reruns, I stuck by Favre because he was our best chance to win even though I felt Rodgers would be a competative replacement, I will always chose a position that affords the Packers a better chance to win as I'am now with Rodgers,.

plenty of us here wanted Favre over Rodgers in 08, and none of us that I remember thought Rodgers would not be a Good QB, just that Favre was the better option at the time.

I brought data backing up my claim that the odds are against Love, just as the odds where against Rodgers in 06 ( so I get my years mixed up, I'am almost 74 years old, wait and see how well your memory works when your my age ysap)

reality is this, the odds are against Love ever being more then a average starter, and average starters float from team to team, I don't think he's the same caliber of QB that Rodgers was as a rookie, but I'am hopeful to be wrong about that.

and the reason we don't get along, specially YOU, is that you paint my comments to the extreme just as you now did saying I new Rodgers would be awesome 15 or whatever many years ago, complete horse manure, never ever have I said that, I just felt that he would be a good QB, and obviously not Favre good in 08, you blow almost everything I say out of proportion.

If Rodgers doesn't come back one of us will eat crow, I'am fine with that, mostly because the odds are in my favor.

for christ sakes Just Jeff wanted Favre in 08, I bet Yoho did to, anyone with half a football brain would have, and none thought Rodgers sucked.

[Yoop]

My wish is Rodgers realizes he has a great opportunity for 2021 and comes back. I don't want the Packers to bend for Rodgers when we are already giving him a great contract and team around him for 2021.

more horse &%$@, the Packers better bend for Rodgers, and better get rid of this authoritarian mind set or this is really going to go bad, we wont be able to bring in choice UFA and we'll have draft picks leaving as soon as there rookie contracts are up, why would Adams or Alexander, or Gary etc hang around, heres something you and others should already know, players don't play for just the money.

Rodgers doesn't want to play for just 2021 with us, how many different ways does this have to be said before that finally gets through to you???????

[YoHoChecko]

for christ sakes Just Jeff wanted Favre in 08, I bet Yoho did to, anyone with half a football brain would have, and none thought Rodgers sucked.

Come to think of it, I have no recollection as to how I felt that offseason.

What I do know:
- I was an early-adoptee of TT fandom. I definitely already liked him a lot by 2008
- I thought Rodgers was going to be a capable ball distributor on a well-stocked, well-coached MM offense whenever he got the chance.
- - - (I still remember this $%@# eagles fan arguing with me that Rodgers could be great, while I saw him as more of a good-enough system guy at the time of the draft in 2005)
- I am in favor of sitting QBs while they learn
- Rodgers contract was nearing the point where he had to play or else we'd never know what we had before having to move on or not
- Allowing Favre to return after publicly handing the reigns to Rodgers felt like assurance that Rodgers would sign elsewhere after his rookie contract.


So remembering th thoughts I know I had, I was probably #teamRodgers in 2008. But also that was probably only/mostly because Favre had officially retired and we had officially turned the page and the contract was running out soon.

I also remember being very nervous about the extension we gave Rodgers. We paid him like an above-average starting QB midway through his first season as a starter in which he looked pretty good, but couldn't get it done enough to win games. But that exact contract later served as a model to me of the best time to start playing and paying your young QBs because it allows you to have them locked into a reasonable contract during their early PRIME years rather than hoping to get wins and championships out of their developmental years.

[go pak go]

My wish is Rodgers realizes he has a great opportunity for 2021 and comes back. I don't want the Packers to bend for Rodgers when we are already giving him a great contract and team around him for 2021.

more horse &%$@, the Packers better bend for Rodgers, and better get rid of this authoritarian mind set or this is really going to go bad, we wont be able to bring in choice UFA and we'll have draft picks leaving as soon as there rookie contracts are up, why would Adams or Alexander, or Gary etc hang around, heres something you and others should already know, players don't play for just the money.

Rodgers doesn't want to play for just 2021 with us, how many different ways does this have to be said before that finally gets through to you???????

Except when I say "bend" I am talking about money.

If it's bending like, "oh yeah Aaron we will ask for your advice before we make a decision on WR #5 on cutdown day"

Like absolutely. Bend on stuff like that which doesn't matter. If it's an ego thing and feeling "involved" thing. Bend on that all day long. Bending on stuff that ultimately doesn't cost the team anything is simply good business and personnel management.

We use the joke around in our business field, "promotion by title" when you want to make someone feel good by giving a new title but nothing beyond that (like pay increase)

I don't want to give an extension which comes back to a money thing. That's what I mean by don't bend.

Another thing I wouldn't bend on is if Rodgers demands we trade Jordan Love.

[go pak go]

My heart was hoping Favre would come back and finish unfinished busienss from the 2007 season. I was a huge Favre fanboy.

But I moved on very quick. I bought my Rodgers jersey in 2006. I was all in for our new guy and it was pretty danged easy to get excited for Rodgers during preason 2008.

Those Packers teams from 2007 to 2010 were just so much fun.

[Yoop]

What I do know:
- I was an early-adoptee of TT fandom. I definitely already liked him a lot by 2008
- I thought Rodgers was going to be a capable ball distributor on a well-stocked, well-coached MM offense whenever he got the chance.
- - - (I still remember this $%@# eagles fan arguing with me that Rodgers could be great, while I saw him as more of a good-enough system guy)
- I am in favor of sitting QBs while they learn

Rodgers was throwing 70% completion ratio in 07, that his first two seasons in backup roll where much poorer, says to me the team wasn't very good either, that vid showed Rodgers under pressure on every snap against NE

sure what was not to like with Ted, we had just been through 5 years of Mike Sherman near ineptitude as a GM, Ted came in fixed the cap and got the offense back on track, Jennings and Grant, Ted was a very good GM, early years especially.

Rodgers needed to sit just like Love needs to sit, I think thats true of every QB thats ever played

[YoHoChecko]

Rodgers was throwing 70% completion ratio in 07, that his first two seasons in backup roll where much poorer, says to me the team wasn't very good either, that vid showed Rodgers under pressure on every snap against NE

sure what was not to like with Ted, we had just been through 5 years of Mike Sherman near ineptitude as a GM, Ted came in fixed the cap and got the offense back on track, Jennings and Grant, Ted was a very good GM, early years especially.

Rodgers needed to sit just like Love needs to sit, I think thats true of every QB thats ever played

Oh, I don't think Rodgers' preseason clips, brief game moments, and early struggles have anything to do with the quality of the team for which he played. Watching him move, it's a whole different world. His dropbacks look so much more labored and sluggish. His release took longer. There's a clip in that preseason rookie highlights where he gets pressured and makes an off schedule throw from a different platform and it's the ONE moment where he looks like Rodgers to me. Even the moving around in the pocket, while yes he still did/does that when he was good, his escapes looked more panicked and less planned. I dunno, just my take.

But LOTS of people found PLENTY not to like about Ted Thompson.

Until Rodgers actually played, he was still viewed by many as a wasted pick. Until Nick Collins started catching interceptions, he was always viewed as a reach and/or a bad pick. Terrance Murphy looked like a solid young receiver for a half second and then ended his career. TT's whole first draft was hated for a good 2 years before most came around on him

I was lucky. I met him and the team in 2005 and so I had reason to like him, personally. It helped me see through some things. But I also liked Nick Collins before most people because a) I respected the hell out of Ozzie Newsome, who said he planned to take Nick Collins for the Ravens if we hadn't, and b) I was into advanced stats before a lot of people were, before Football Outsiders was a partnership with ESPN and PFF existed. And Nick Collins coverage stats were lit from day one.

So yeah, I liked TT in 2008. Most Packers fans didn't. Like really, MOST didn't. Even a 74-year old memory should be able to remember and accept that. People hated TT because they thought that drafting Rodgers was a move motivated by his ego to win his own way with his own team. Sticking with Rodgers when Favre wanted to return in 2008 was seen as a battle of arrogant egos, not as a rational decision-making process that was difficult to navigate.

It's all the same things now. I mean it's nearly exact in fan response. People saying Gutey has an ego and is trying to show Rodgers who's boss. People saying Gutey didn't want to win with Rodgers because it wasn't "his" guy. I don't know Gutey (I think he was there in 2005 but nothing stands out in my memory), but I take all that with a grain of salt because it is EXACTLY what people said about TT when I personally KNEW that wasn't true.

So ya know, haters gonna hate. People are gonna retcon their memories. Hindsight is gonna hindsight.

But from 2005 through 2008, TT was polarizing at best, hated at worst. Many loud and public calls (including websites) for his firing. Many death threats received. I'm not going to get caught up in what people think about these personalities because I see that there is a plan. And I know how much a QB's development and transition matters to his success. And while the whole league keeps spinning their danged wheels around how to find the next QB, a few teams, like us, know the formula and keep grinding. I don't know if we'll get 3 HoFers in a row. But I sure as heck agree with the old Ron Wolf cliche that the best time to get a QB is when you don't need one and the worst time to get a QB is when you need one.

Hopefully Love is an All Pro and some people FINALLY start learning lessons about how to handle the position... maybe like Joe Montana to Steve Young; like Favre to Rodgers; like Rodgers to Love. Maybe you do it early. And maybe you do a better job of managing the communication so your whiny little QB won't blow up the whole team at the very thought of being replaced.

If Rodgers wants to be like Brady, he could respond to Jordan Love's being drafted the way Brady responded to Jimmy G. Win two Super Bowls and let them trade the kid because you're too good. Worked out for everyone. Jimmy G is rich. The Pats won Super Bowls. The Pats got a good pick for Jimmy. And the 49ers got TO the Super Bowl with him. If Rodgers wasn't such a pissant, that could have been us. But if he's gonna refuse to play, cool. We'll Favre him instead of Jimmying Love.

[Yoop]

My heart was hoping Favre would come back and finish unfinished busienss from the 2007 season. I was a huge Favre fanboy.

But I moved on very quick. I bought my Rodgers jersey in 2006. I was all in for our new guy and it was pretty danged easy to get excited for Rodgers during preason 2008.

Those Packers teams from 2007 to 2010 were just so much fun.

Rodgers was 20 of 28 in 07 72% CPR why would anyone think he sucked? people that still wanted Favre had almost nothing to do with Rodgers play, Favre, like Rodgers now and probably still in 2022 or23 will still prefer Rodgers over Love, thats just how this stuff works out, when players are rookies or 2nd year players, they have to wow ya during minimum exposure, which rarely happens because it's to short a time frame for the player to adjust to the increased speed of the pro game, practice and even PS games dont duplicate actual games when every players is giving 100%.

whatever, I thought Rodgers was a excellent first round pick, when he was still there at slot 20 I wanted to trade up to get him, Favre had talked about retirement for a few seasons, I liked Favre as a QB, as a person, not so much.

another point of view concerning what these type players bring, Favre Brought a renovated Lambeau expansion, Rodgers brought everything surrounding it with lavish upgrades in and out, whats the price tag on that?

[Crazylegs Starks]

Ah, memories. Rodgers sucked in 2005 and 2006. I don't recall the 2007 preseason at all, but the Dallas game was when I thought "this guy could be the real deal".

Since we're reminiscing, remember when Holmgren and the assistant coaches were debating whether or not to bench Favre? What was it, late 1993 before Favre showed some consistency?

[YoHoChecko]

Since we're reminiscing, remember when Holmgren and the assistant coaches were debating whether or not to bench Favre? What was it, late 1993 before Favre showed some consistency?

Omg, yes. Was it Brunell they were thinking about or wa she later? I forgot about that stuff.

When I was at USC, Pete Carroll did this Monday Morning Quarterback meetings with high-value donors where he broke down what he was thinking during the most recent games and took questions. I worked with the athletic office and did food service for the meetings so I got to listen in.

Three games into Carson Palmer's Heisman season, the team was, I think, 1-2 and Carroll said he was thinking of pulling Palmer. The only reason he hadn't pulled the trigger is that neither Matt Cassell nor Matt Leinert had really taken a big step ahead of the other, and so he didn't feel like he could fairly decide which of the two guys to promote.

From that point on, Palmer went on a 6-game tear of epic proportions, won the Heisman, and was the first overall pick. And had Matt Cassell or Matt Leinert had a better week of practice during week 3 of the season, none of it would have ever happened. He'd be an afterthought. Just one of several big time USC QB recruits who disappointed in that era at the next level.

This is yet another reason why I am of the belief that there are SEVERAL more high-level QBs that we never get to see because somewhere along the way, their development got derailed or they picked the wrong school or the wrong team drafted them. There's a sense that anyone who deserves to make it big ultimately will, because their worthiness and hard work are the key ingredients to their ultimate success.

I'm more of a systems thinker. There are dozens and dozens of untapped QBs whose elite talent never found its way into the right spot and earned the right recognition because something went wrong or differently. But they only exist in counterfactual universes, and so such a thought can never be more than conjecture, unprovable and unknown.

[Yoop]

I was lucky. I met him and the team in 2005 and so I had reason to like him, personally. It helped me see through some things. But I also liked Nick Collins before most people because a) I respected the hell out of Ozzie Newsome, who said he planned to take Nick Collins for the Ravens if we hadn't, and b) I was into advanced stats before a lot of people were, before Football Outsiders was a partnership with ESPN and PFF existed. And Nick Collins coverage stats were lit from day one

see up here people liked Thompson right away, at least all the Packer fans I new, I mean it's not as though people hated Sherman, but his drafts sucked unless he was picking ol, and plenty of friends hated his in bed relationship with Favre, heck most I new where upset when Harlan and Wolf gave both titles to one man after telling Holmgren that the team wouldn't do that, I know it upset me, Mike Sherman wasn't a terrible coach so much as a terrible GM, we've had plenty of disfunction over the years, look at that fiasco with Rhodes

I met Ted while on a stadium tour with Karen Bengsten in 93 I believe, we where in the locker room and he was walking through, Karen introduced him, I was with family, Ted was just a scout back then so it just seemed like we where meeting no one of particuler, Ted was the same back then as he was later as GM, humble and polite.

Karen is married to Phil Bengstons son (Coach and DC of Packers during Lombardi years), my nephew coached her son in hockey, when she offered a free tour just after the expansion, we jumped on it, never thought I'd meet our future GM though, finished it off in Curly's pub, so much nostalgia with me and Lambeau, I played in the fields that Lambeau is built on as a boy,

[YoHoChecko]

Ok guys, screw the drama, [mention]Yoop[/mention] and I are just gonna get high and tell stories of Packers people we've met now.

Did y'all know that Ron Wolf moved to Annapolis, MD after he retired? I sold his family a set of Cutco knives.

[go pak go]

Rodgers was 20 of 28 in 07 72% CPR why would anyone think he sucked? people that still wanted Favre had almost nothing to do with Rodgers play, Favre, like Rodgers now and probably still in 2022 or23 will still prefer Rodgers over Love, thats just how this stuff works out, when players are rookies or 2nd year players, they have to wow ya during minimum exposure.

Yeah. I guess it's just the personality type.

I'm always a planner, a forward looker. I'm an econ, finance and accounting major. Business consulting, working with business owners and CFO's, planning and forward looking is what I do.

So I guess when faced with a decision knowing full well it's going to likely be one or the other, I will take the younger guy.

I would have loved Favre in 2008. But if I was told that Rodgers would not be a Packer if Favre got the reigns in 2008...I'm taking Rodgers. Every single time. If I knew Rodgers would have been okay waiting one more...I'm going Brett for one more season.

My hope and wish was we would get Rodgers at minimum for 2021 and likely 2022. Honestly I never dreamed Rodgers being a Packer in 2021 would be a problem, but Rodgers decided to make a stink about this and threaten to take his ball and go home.

So now we are in a decision bind. If push comes to shove, I'm once again going with the young guy. But that is my personality. It ultimately comes down to I don't think the Packers can keep a roster as good as it had last year beyond this season. So I'd rather take my lumps with the young guy and start building for our next window.

I am just hoping Rodgers gives us one last Dance.

[YoHoChecko]

Yeah. I guess it's just the personality type.

I'm always a planner, a forward looker. I'm an econ, finance and accounting major. Business consulting, working with business owners and CFO's, planning and forward looking is what I do.

So I guess when faced with a decision knowing full well it's going to likely be one or the other, I will take the younger guy.

I would have loved Favre in 2008. But if I was told that Rodgers would not be a Packer if Favre got the reigns in 2008...I'm taking Rodgers. Every single time. If I knew Rodgers would have been okay waiting one more...I'm going Brett for one more season.

My hope and wish was we would get Rodgers at minimum for 2021 and likely 2022. Honestly I never dreamed Rodgers being a Packer in 2021 would be a problem, but Rodgers decided to make a stink about this and threaten to take his ball and go home.

So now we are in a decision bind. If push comes to shove, I'm once again going with the young guy. But that is my personality. It ultimately comes down to I don't think the Packers can keep a roster as good as it had last year beyond this season. So I'd rather take my lumps with the young guy and start building for our next window.

I am just hoping Rodgers gives us one last Dance.

Wait, screw the Packers People stories, this was a really good post.

[go pak go]

Ok guys, screw the drama, @Yoop and I are just gonna get high and tell stories of Packers people we've met now.

Did y'all know that Ron Wolf moved to Annapolis, MD after he retired? I sold his family a set of Cutco knives.

I did know that! I ate at Chick and Ruth's and got talking with the owner because I adored his crab cakes.

He started casually saying the name my friend "John Michael Dorsey" and finally I'm like....wait. wait. wait. "this doesn't happen to be John Dorsey GM of the Chiefs right? Because I'm a huge Packers nut and that's actually why we are here this weekend for the Packers Washington game"

Yeah! John Micahel Dorsey1 He then shows me pictures he has with Ron Wolf...it was pretty cool.

Seriously I love Annapolis so much. And I grew up a Maryland Terrapins fan so goTerps. Literally the only South Dakotan who was a Terps fan. Steve Blake grabbed my heart.

[YoHoChecko]

Seriously I love Annapolis so much. And I grew up a Maryland Terrapins fan so goTerps. Literally the only South Dakotan who was a Terps fan. Steve Blake grabbed my heart.

And see? I'm the only Annapolitan who loves South Dakota!

Absolutely one of my favorite states to visit on road trips, though it's only happened twice. I loaded up on it, though.

But yeah, if we're hosting a draft based on cities people have lived, we don't get far with players, but Annapolis could contribute John Dorsey, Ron Wolf (and Eliot Wolf), and Bill Belichick to the coaching and executive side.