Plant Your Flag

[YoHoChecko]

I will say this... one of my main complaints with the Love pick -- that it was too early for a high pick at QB -- has not really survived the test of time. If this past offseason is the beginning of the "appropriate" time to look for a possible successor at QB, it really did not offer us a chance at a comparable talent at QB. The top QBs were gone very early; we would have needed to give up more than a 4th to get one, and half those guys were comparable or inferior talents.

This is a very good point. There was no one CLOSE to the talent level of Love available after pick 15 this year. Mac Jones is physically not in his league, though it will be interesting to see if mentally and mechanically makes up for that. Love is much closer to Trey Lance and Justin Fields than he is to Brady Quinn or Mac Jones.

McShay said that he had the same grade on Love as he did on Mac Jones, both a smidge behind Justin Fields. I have seen some other, similar types of analysis along the way but can't find them now. Kiper had Love between Trey Lance and Jalen Hurts, both lower than Mac Jones which is an opinion to have, I guess, but it also sounds like he was including the year one results in that opinion, rather than an at-the-time-of-the-draft assessment.

Some guy named Marc Ross who is an NFL network correspondent that used to be an "NFL executive" (quick bio search shows he worked for the Giants' personnel department for 11 years, so a legit scout) said that Love would be 3rd after Lawrence and Wilson in this class, ahead of Lance and Fields.

So the point is that no, this year, there was not a player comparable to Love available in the late first. The last one comparable to him went at 15, and the guys who went at 3 and 8 are not far from the same level of talent and experience from a scouting perspective.

Also Tyler Dunne had an NFL executive anonymously state that he liked Love ahead of Tua and Herbert coming out, so those are top ten players.

The point is that while there is a LOT of disagreement about exactly where Love's value goes, over the past two years he is universally in the top 9 QBs; he is seen as similar to players who exclusively went 15th or higher; and his ceiling is limitless, if he develops well and cleans up some sloppy inconsistencies. But ALSO, he's a guy who seemed to struggle under duress, and so getting his mechanics automatic, so they don't fall apart under stress, is all the more important to his development.

[Yoop]

The point is that while there is a LOT of disagreement about exactly where Love's value goes, over the past two years he is universally in the top 9 QBs; he is seen as similar to players who exclusively went 15th or higher; and his ceiling is limitless, if he develops well and cleans up some sloppy inconsistencies. But ALSO, he's a guy who seemed to struggle under duress, and so getting his mechanics automatic, so they don't fall apart under stress, is all the more important to his development.

the ability to quickly process is imo the toughest part to master, and why no matter what I hope we don't have to start Love this year, course I pray Rodgers comes back and we don't have to, but if not, and Bortles doesn't improve I'd go looking for some other vet QB to start and hope towards seasons end Love is more ready, we spent a lot now considering all this turmoil besides the draft expenditure to ruin Loves chances.

[YoHoChecko]

A look back at some pre-draft Love commentary from mock drafts:

Mel Kiper

19. Las Vegas Raiders (from CHI)
Jordan Love, QB, Utah State

I'm sticking with Love to the Raiders because I still think he's going to go somewhere in Round 1. Jon Gruden and Mike Mayock can get their young quarterback to build around.

Todd McShay

6. Los Angeles Chargers
Jordan Love, QB, Utah State

Yes, this is a bit of a reach, but the Chargers struck out in the Tom Brady sweepstakes, and they are looking for long-term answers under center. (They can live in the short term with Tyrod Taylor.) Could free agents Cam Newton or Jameis Winston be in play? Maybe. I'm told Los Angeles likes all four of the top quarterbacks in the draft class -- and this pick could end up being Oregon's Justin Herbert, too -- but Love has the arm to make NFL-caliber throws and should be available here at No. 6.

Peter King

• Teams that could take quarterback Jordan Love: Green Bay (62), Pittsburgh (49).

Daniel Jeremiah

PICK 30 Green Bay Packers

Brandon Aiyuk · WR
School: Arizona State | Year: Senior

This could be the spot for Jordan Love. If the Packers pass on him, though, Aiyuk is a perfect fit in their offense.

Bob McGinn's Rankings based on What The Scouts Say PRE-DRAFT:

4. JORDAN LOVE, Utah State (6-3 ½, 224, 4.71, 1-2): Love is a fourth-year junior from Bakersfield, Calif. “He has the most physical upside of any of these guys,” said one scout. “The great ones make things look easy. He makes it look easy. He’s an effortless thrower. He played with nobody around him. This year he was just out there winging it trying to make plays to win games. Did he develop some bad habits? Yeah, of course he did. But you can rein that in. It’s (easier) to get guys that like to play it safe and check down and be chain-movers. It’s hard to get those guys that push the ball down the field. He’s the only quarterback I ever scouted who will throw into bigger windows as a pro than he did in college. Those guys did not get open for him. If he ends up outside the top 10 we could be saying, ‘How the heck did Jordan Love last that long?’ He’s just got that play-making ability.”

In 2018, his best season, his NFL passer rating was 110.7. Last year, with a depleted supporting cast, it was 82.8 for a career mark of 92.0. Career record was 21-11. “The body language was awful and the accuracy was worse,” another scout said. “He didn’t look like he knew what he was doing or that he wanted to play. There were numerous times he’s looking right at an open wideout or a tight end coming right in the middle and the two linebackers are on the hashes and there’s a receiver standing in the middle of the field and he doesn’t throw it to him. Or he throws it to him late. I don’t think he’s correctable.”

His vertical jump of 35 ½ inches tied Herbert for the best among the top quarterbacks. Cited for marijuana possession in December. “He’s a risk-reward guy,” a third scout said. “You question the makeup. He got (cited) for weed. You don’t want the face of your franchise getting (cited) for weed … (Editor’s note: Charges were ultimately dropped in January). It’s really going to take some time because the offense he played in is pretty simple. But a terrific athlete, quick release, plenty of arm, big hands (10 ½), great touch, accurate on the move. But poor decisions, question his focus, his vision, his accuracy against pressure. He’s soft-spoken and confident. Not great on the board. You know, good luck.” Love posted a Wonderlic of 27.

So both Daniel Jeremiah and Peter King mentioned the Packers and Love together--one for pick 30 and one for pick 62. Mel Kiper stuck him at pick 19 as the "quarterback to build around," and Todd McShay thought pick 6 to the Chargers was a toss-up between Justin Herbert (the actual pick) and Jordan Love, but leaned Love. Of the three scouts McGinn talked to, one said thought it's wacky that he might go past the top ten, one thought he was going to take some time, and one thought he was "not correctable." Just a wild range of opinions and outcomes, but plenty of verifiable, on the record, actual personnel scouting opinions as well as national pundits, who believed this guy was a first round pick with a limitless upside. That's not to ignore the detractors, but it certainly isn't the case that Love was a reach or untalented. Enough people were high enough on him that his draft status seems legitimate.

[NCF]

A look back at some pre-draft Love commentary from mock drafts:

Mel Kiper

19. Las Vegas Raiders (from CHI)
Jordan Love, QB, Utah State

I'm sticking with Love to the Raiders because I still think he's going to go somewhere in Round 1. Jon Gruden and Mike Mayock can get their young quarterback to build around.

Todd McShay

6. Los Angeles Chargers
Jordan Love, QB, Utah State

Yes, this is a bit of a reach, but the Chargers struck out in the Tom Brady sweepstakes, and they are looking for long-term answers under center. (They can live in the short term with Tyrod Taylor.) Could free agents Cam Newton or Jameis Winston be in play? Maybe. I'm told Los Angeles likes all four of the top quarterbacks in the draft class -- and this pick could end up being Oregon's Justin Herbert, too -- but Love has the arm to make NFL-caliber throws and should be available here at No. 6.

Peter King

• Teams that could take quarterback Jordan Love: Green Bay (62), Pittsburgh (49).

Daniel Jeremiah

PICK 30 Green Bay Packers

Brandon Aiyuk · WR
School: Arizona State | Year: Senior

This could be the spot for Jordan Love. If the Packers pass on him, though, Aiyuk is a perfect fit in their offense.

Bob McGinn's Rankings based on What The Scouts Say PRE-DRAFT:

4. JORDAN LOVE, Utah State (6-3 ½, 224, 4.71, 1-2): Love is a fourth-year junior from Bakersfield, Calif. “He has the most physical upside of any of these guys,” said one scout. “The great ones make things look easy. He makes it look easy. He’s an effortless thrower. He played with nobody around him. This year he was just out there winging it trying to make plays to win games. Did he develop some bad habits? Yeah, of course he did. But you can rein that in. It’s (easier) to get guys that like to play it safe and check down and be chain-movers. It’s hard to get those guys that push the ball down the field. He’s the only quarterback I ever scouted who will throw into bigger windows as a pro than he did in college. Those guys did not get open for him. If he ends up outside the top 10 we could be saying, ‘How the heck did Jordan Love last that long?’ He’s just got that play-making ability.”

In 2018, his best season, his NFL passer rating was 110.7. Last year, with a depleted supporting cast, it was 82.8 for a career mark of 92.0. Career record was 21-11. “The body language was awful and the accuracy was worse,” another scout said. “He didn’t look like he knew what he was doing or that he wanted to play. There were numerous times he’s looking right at an open wideout or a tight end coming right in the middle and the two linebackers are on the hashes and there’s a receiver standing in the middle of the field and he doesn’t throw it to him. Or he throws it to him late. I don’t think he’s correctable.”

His vertical jump of 35 ½ inches tied Herbert for the best among the top quarterbacks. Cited for marijuana possession in December. “He’s a risk-reward guy,” a third scout said. “You question the makeup. He got (cited) for weed. You don’t want the face of your franchise getting (cited) for weed … (Editor’s note: Charges were ultimately dropped in January). It’s really going to take some time because the offense he played in is pretty simple. But a terrific athlete, quick release, plenty of arm, big hands (10 ½), great touch, accurate on the move. But poor decisions, question his focus, his vision, his accuracy against pressure. He’s soft-spoken and confident. Not great on the board. You know, good luck.” Love posted a Wonderlic of 27.

So both Daniel Jeremiah and Peter King mentioned the Packers and Love together--one for pick 30 and one for pick 62. Mel Kiper stuck him at pick 19 as the "quarterback to build around," and Todd McShay thought pick 6 to the Chargers was a toss-up between Justin Herbert (the actual pick) and Jordan Love, but leaned Love. Of the three scouts McGinn talked to, one said thought it's wacky that he might go past the top ten, one thought he was going to take some time, and one thought he was "not correctable." Just a wild range of opinions and outcomes, but plenty of verifiable, on the record, actual personnel scouting opinions as well as national pundits, who believed this guy was a first round pick with a limitless upside. That's not to ignore the detractors, but it certainly isn't the case that Love was a reach or untalented. Enough people were high enough on him that his draft status seems legitimate.

Yep, definitely a high-variance prospect. I know we had The Combine, but I cannot remember exactly how COVID impacted the lead up to The Draft. I remember some stories, after we picked Love, about how he was able to slide to the end of Round 1 because teams couldn't get enough information... whether that was Pro Day, visits, etc., I cannot remember.

[YoHoChecko]

Yep, definitely a high-variance prospect. I know we had The Combine, but I cannot remember exactly how COVID impacted the lead up to The Draft. I remember some stories, after we picked Love, about how he was able to slide to the end of Round 1 because teams couldn't get enough information... whether that was Pro Day, visits, etc., I cannot remember.

Honestly, given how many teams have a lot of "old school" mentalities (not to mention some casual racism, but let's not derail the whole chat with this), I bet the marijuana charge which I had forgotten about was a MUCH bigger deal in front offices than it is outside of them. So the whole "not getting enough info" on him, as a person, might really have played a role. When I was at the combine in 2005, there was this huge back and forth between Paul Hornung and some long-since-departed front office guy for the Packers about how much it mattered that Adrian McPhereson had passed bad checks a couple years earlier. SOME people really buy into the "face of the franchise needs to be clean" thing.

[Yoop]

Yep, definitely a high-variance prospect. I know we had The Combine, but I cannot remember exactly how COVID impacted the lead up to The Draft. I remember some stories, after we picked Love, about how he was able to slide to the end of Round 1 because teams couldn't get enough information... whether that was Pro Day, visits, etc., I cannot remember.

Honestly, given how many teams have a lot of "old school" mentalities (not to mention some casual racism, but let's not derail the whole chat with this), I bet the marijuana charge which I had forgotten about was a MUCH bigger deal in front offices than it is outside of them. So the whole "not getting enough info" on him, as a person, might really have played a role. When I was at the combine in 2005, there was this huge back and forth between Paul Hornung and some long-since-departed front office guy for the Packers about how much it mattered that Adrian McPhereson had passed bad checks a couple years earlier. SOME people really buy into the "face of the franchise needs to be clean" thing.

you mean Love likes wacky tobackie, ohhh say it aint so I'am so glad the NFL is finally lower there gastly opinion of players that relax with a little weed versus chugging booze, course they have had to protect themselves against our neanderthal government position concerning it.

[BF004]

Wasn’t sure where else to put this. But after a little Love showcasing today. Should the outcome end up we double down on Aaron and trade Love.

We talked all about where Aaron could go.

Where realistically could Love be traded? Who passed on him in 2019 who wouldn’t make a ton of sense.

My thoughts kind of immediately went to Pittsburgh and New Orleans.

Correct me if I am wrong, we trade up ahead of NO Pitt didn’t have a first rounders cause of Minkah Fitzpatrick? Or was that this past draft?

Oakland, Denver, Washington, Detroit, Atlanta all could be looking for a round QB. Washington already passed on him for Haskins and Detroit in division.

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Love had a good day, so I'll change to Yes.

The next bad day and I switch back to No.

[lupedafiasco]

Wasn’t sure where else to put this. But after a little Love showcasing today. Should the outcome end up we double down on Aaron and trade Love.

We talked all about where Aaron could go.

Where realistically could Love be traded? Who passed on him in 2019 who wouldn’t make a ton of sense.

My thoughts kind of immediately went to Pittsburgh and New Orleans.

Correct me if I am wrong, we trade up ahead of NO Pitt didn’t have a first rounders cause of Minkah Fitzpatrick? Or was that this past draft?

Oakland, Denver, Washington, Detroit, Atlanta all could be looking for a round QB. Washington already passed on him for Haskins and Detroit in division.

Most teams had an early 2nd round grade on Love as it is. A season later with no play time and leverage would be against the Packers I don’t think we get better than a 3rd. Probably would be a very Josh Rosen type trade I would think.

[YoHoChecko]

Most teams had an early 2nd round grade on Love as it is. A season later with no play time and leverage would be against the Packers I don’t think we get better than a 3rd. Probably would be a very Josh Rosen type trade I would think.

I mostly agree with this, which is why I wouldn't move him. I think plenty of teams had a late first round grade on him, though. No reason to speculate about it like that, especially with scout quotes on the record all over the place, but from top ten to late first to day two. No need to say "most teams" felt any way.

But yeah, a good day of practice isn't enhancing his trade value. And with no film, it's not any higher than his original draft value. A 2 is the best bet, a 3 is more likely. Rosen is my comparison as well.

The only team I could say might be high on him without us knowing is the Steelers, but there's no reason to trade for him before this season. He's not going to be anyone else's starter this year. They could wait to trade for him the same way we should wait to trade Rodgers if we do.

[Waldo]

The Packers gave a first for a guy just like Jordan Love is today.

It worked out alright.

[bud fox]

The Packers gave a first for a guy just like Jordan Love is today.

It worked out alright.

Jordan Love is just like Brett Favre? Is that what you are saying?

[BF004]

The Packers gave a first for a guy just like Jordan Love is today.

It worked out alright.

Jordan Love is just like Brett Favre? Is that what you are saying?

Must have been exactly what he meant. Excellent deciphering skills.

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Based on today's practice, I am moving to undecided.

[bud fox]

The Packers gave a first for a guy just like Jordan Love is today.

It worked out alright.

Jordan Love is just like Brett Favre? Is that what you are saying?

Must have been exactly what he meant. Excellent deciphering skills.

Still can't tell if you are being serious - I am assumed that was the inference albeit stupid but I know posters can make the strongest inference on here and then say that's not what I said - so I wanted the confirmation.

[NCF]

Listening right now, myself, but Andy Herman highly recommended this today. It’s the Move the Sticks podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

SPOTIFY:



GOOGLE:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... IBRAF&ep=6

[BF004]

Jordan Love is just like Brett Favre? Is that what you are saying?

Must have been exactly what he meant. Excellent deciphering skills.

Still can't tell if you are being serious - I am assumed that was the inference albeit stupid but I know posters can make the strongest inference on here and then say that's not what I said - so I wanted the confirmation.

Nobody in the history of the plant has, or will, say Jordan Love is just like Brett Favre because the Packers traded for Favre 30 years and we are having a discussion about the outside chance Love is traded, what possible options there may be.

[NCF]

Listening right now, myself, but Andy Herman highly recommended this today. It’s the Move the Sticks podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

SPOTIFY:



GOOGLE:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... IBRAF&ep=6

It was about an hour long. I enjoyed it, but can't say I really learned a ton about Love or our current situation that we haven't already discussed. Still worth the listen if you have time.

[YoHoChecko]

I think the podcast was definitely worthwhile for those who didn’t pay a lot of attention to the QBs predraft, especially. I think it was a really nice reset on Jordan Love expectations and opinions divorced from the current scenario