Mandatory Minicamp

[RingoCStarrQB]

Glad to see Bortles wearing #9.

[YoHoChecko]

Little cutup of some minicamp action

[YoHoChecko]

HIGHLY recommend any Packer fan watching both of these press conferences. The leadership and demeanor and attitudes of both of these guys just... I don't know, exactly, what to say; it just makes me feel good about rooting for them. Really appreciated both guys' perspectives, points of view, ambition, drive, ability to compartmentalize....

The headlines I'm seeing about these pressers are quips like "Packers teammates support Rodgers" and they definitely both did; and that makes some sense to report to a national audience. But that is by no means the primary takeaway I get while watching them as a fan of the team.

[YoHoChecko]

Funchess seems like a really weird dude. I can't put my finger on it. He's extremely confident and by all accounts of his prior stops around the league, is a hard worker (Davante also called him 'a dog'). But he also seems to truly believe that things just come naturally and won't suffer from a looootttt of time off. And the tongue was an interesting touch. I did enjoy when he answered a Rodgers question by practially begging the media to stop caring so much about it

[Drj820]

He didn't have accuracy issues in college. I'm ok with some misses early on.

I'd be more worried if he was making bad or slow decisions.

I'm not a believer in Love because too many times in college he threw the same pick over and over. Hopefully that was the HS scheme they ran (his senior year) rather than anything intrinsic to Love.

Right. These are the exact issues you get when your footwork isn't clean.

We all said he's not ready. I sure as heck didn't expect a good day. We just need to make sure (or hope) they can GET him ready within the next two months, or more preferably, that Rodgers comes back.

This is good growth and development time, though. And that's really all this is. I will not have a fully formed opinion on Jordan Love until the end of the 2022 season at the earliest.

He’s been playing football for many years, I was hoping he could hit wide open WRs in 2 minute drill.

[YoHoChecko]

He’s been playing football for many years, I was hoping he could hit wide open WRs in 2 minute drill.

You ever try to change a golf swing, or your shooting form, or anything that you've been doing for a long time?

Like I bowl in this stupid, straight-ahead underhanded fashion. I'm fine with it. It works for me. I can go bowling with my friends over some beers and come in second place and have a good time.

But if I want to get BETTER and I want to reach my ceiling, I have to CHANGE the way I do comfortable things. When you do that, you get worse first. Because you're not doing the thing that that you've always done. You're doing a NEW process.

That's why it takes time for young QBs who have a lot to clean up. You have to UNlearn. And then you have to learn new things. And you have to practice it the new way until you get it down pat, become comfortable, and can put it back together. That's why so many QBs who succeed early in their careers plateau, because they never took the time to change their comfort level. They don't get worse for a little while, and that looks good as far as making an early impact. But if they ever want to truly excel, they need to go through that process at some point. It's best to get it done with to START your career.

That is why I think the better look at whether or not you should sit a QB as a rookie is not how they play in year one, but how they're playing in years 3, 5, 7... That's why even though VERY few QBs sit out their first years in the league, those who DO sit out their first years in the league include like 5 of the 7 current first ballot hall of famers. Because when you deconstruct first, then reconstruct, you have a much better chance at eventually reaching your ceiling.

If your young QB looks like a baller right away, he either came into the league with really really good mechanics, or you're failing to correct his bad habits for short term gain that will cost the player and team some small level of success as their career progresses. That's why we think there's a QB shortage in the league. Only like 5 teams bother to use the right process. I am stoked we are one of those teams, consistently, for like 30 years.

[YoHoChecko]

Honestly, what's really frustrating about these conversations is that, well,

1) I just posted a bunch of pressers and some commentary about what I think are my takeaways and it gets immediately partially drowned by the same conversation we're having everywhere else, but more so; much more so...

2) Like I listen to the coaches' pressers; I always have. I like them. My Dad was a sportswriter so I've sat in on some before and maybe that's why. Or because I think that most beat writers are bad at their jobs (compared to my Dad, obvi), so I watch the press conferences myself to get a truer feel for how the players and coaches are talking. And they TELL us this. Like they describe QB play. MM talked about it. MLF talks about it. Hackett talks about it. Getsy talks about it. Andy Reid talked about it. Alex Van Pelt talked about it.

This whole footwork thing--this whole muscle memory thing and making the alignment between the footwork and your progressions natural, automatic, muscle memory... it's been said by QB gurus in various offensive schemes by all of them. I'm not making anything up. No one is making excuses. This isn't about Jordan Love. They ALL say it. Frequently. All the time. But I still have to come in here and have these repetitive arguments with people who say things like "I'd think a guy who played football a long time could hit an open receiver" over and over again without any effort to understand what they're watching.

I like you, [mention]Drj820[/mention]. You're a good poster and community member. You're not mean to people; you're patient with people. You're civil in your disagreements. But GOODNESS it's frustrating to have to respond to something so trite as "he's played football a long time. He should be able to throw a pass to an open receiver"

[Drj820]

Honestly, what's really frustrating about these conversations is that, well,

1) I just posted a bunch of pressers and some commentary about what I think are my takeaways and it gets immediately partially drowned by the same conversation we're having everywhere else, but more so; much more so...

2) Like I listen to the coaches' pressers; I always have. I like them. My Dad was a sportswriter so I've sat in on some before and maybe that's why. Or because I think that most beat writers are bad at their jobs (compared to my Dad, obvi), so I watch the press conferences myself to get a truer feel for how the players and coaches are talking. And they TELL us this. Like they describe QB play. MM talked about it. MLF talks about it. Hackett talks about it. Getsy talks about it. Andy Reid talked about it. Alex Van Pelt talked about it.

This whole footwork thing--this whole muscle memory thing and making the alignment between the footwork and your progressions natural, automatic, muscle memory... it's been said by QB gurus in various offensive schemes by all of them. I'm not making anything up. No one is making excuses. This isn't about Jordan Love. They ALL say it. Frequently. All the time. But I still have to come in here and have these repetitive arguments with people who say things like "I'd think a guy who played football a long time could hit an open receiver" over and over again without any effort to understand what they're watching.

I like you, @Drj820. You're a good poster and community member. You're not mean to people; you're patient with people. You're civil in your disagreements. But GOODNESS it's frustrating to have to respond to something so trite as "he's played football a long time. He should be able to throw a pass to an open receiver"

I understand what you are saying and didn’t mean to be contrarian. I just honesty feel like it was a bad first showing for Love at mini camp today, and I don’t feel like I should have to wait years to say that. This kid could be 3 months away from starting in front of 70k people, he’s played quarterback for a while and can toss the ball, I hope he can get wide open WRs. They rarely are wide open, gotta hit em when they are.

I agree with your footwork stuff, and trust me...I value your insight and think you are extremely smart when it comes to this stuff...I am just of the opinion that a first rounder in year two should hit wide open guys. Now, I know he won’t always, and that’s expected. But when asked Im not gonna say...well I’l give him a few more months to miss open guys, I’m just gonna say “dang he really needs to learn how to hit that pass, and quick”

[Drj820]

He’s been playing football for many years, I was hoping he could hit wide open WRs in 2 minute drill.

You ever try to change a golf swing, or your shooting form, or anything that you've been doing for a long time?

Like I bowl in this stupid, straight-ahead underhanded fashion. I'm fine with it. It works for me. I can go bowling with my friends over some beers and come in second place and have a good time.

But if I want to get BETTER and I want to reach my ceiling, I have to CHANGE the way I do comfortable things. When you do that, you get worse first. Because you're not doing the thing that that you've always done. You're doing a NEW process.

That's why it takes time for young QBs who have a lot to clean up. You have to UNlearn. And then you have to learn new things. And you have to practice it the new way until you get it down pat, become comfortable, and can put it back together. That's why so many QBs who succeed early in their careers plateau, because they never took the time to change their comfort level. They don't get worse for a little while, and that looks good as far as making an early impact. But if they ever want to truly excel, they need to go through that process at some point. It's best to get it done with to START your career.

That is why I think the better look at whether or not you should sit a QB as a rookie is not how they play in year one, but how they're playing in years 3, 5, 7... That's why even though VERY few QBs sit out their first years in the league, those who DO sit out their first years in the league include like 5 of the 7 current first ballot hall of famers. Because when you deconstruct first, then reconstruct, you have a much better chance at eventually reaching your ceiling.

If your young QB looks like a baller right away, he either came into the league with really really good mechanics, or you're failing to correct his bad habits for short term gain that will cost the player and team some small level of success as their career progresses. That's why we think there's a QB shortage in the league. Only like 5 teams bother to use the right process. I am stoked we are one of those teams, consistently, for like 30 years.

I agree with what you are saying here and i should have written this out earlier today when I was describing how the transition in year one of Lafleur for Rodgers was as tough as expected, and he actually handled it very well. Because the process you described a lot of what 12 went through last year.

I have no arguments with your points, I’m just gonna take Love missing wide open guys as a bad sign for what is to come in three months. I am not declaring he can never improve. Just saying “yikes”.

I do think this is the divide between my position and others, and I have said it many times before...I feel like Love has been in the system and with Lafleur for over a calendar year now. He should be working on this stuff way more than just at practice. He should be doing drills daily and working on his foot work. It was day one of mini camp...he missed some passes...no biggie. BUT, I don’t like pretending this was his first Packers practice ever. He’s been in the system for over a year, I was hoping the footwork would be ready to hit the wide open guy. It wasn’t, no worries.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Honestly, what's really frustrating about these conversations is that, well,

1) I just posted a bunch of pressers and some commentary about what I think are my takeaways and it gets immediately partially drowned by the same conversation we're having everywhere else, but more so; much more so...

2) Like I listen to the coaches' pressers; I always have. I like them. My Dad was a sportswriter so I've sat in on some before and maybe that's why. Or because I think that most beat writers are bad at their jobs (compared to my Dad, obvi), so I watch the press conferences myself to get a truer feel for how the players and coaches are talking. And they TELL us this. Like they describe QB play. MM talked about it. MLF talks about it. Hackett talks about it. Getsy talks about it. Andy Reid talked about it. Alex Van Pelt talked about it.

This whole footwork thing--this whole muscle memory thing and making the alignment between the footwork and your progressions natural, automatic, muscle memory... it's been said by QB gurus in various offensive schemes by all of them. I'm not making anything up. No one is making excuses. This isn't about Jordan Love. They ALL say it. Frequently. All the time. But I still have to come in here and have these repetitive arguments with people who say things like "I'd think a guy who played football a long time could hit an open receiver" over and over again without any effort to understand what they're watching.

I like you, @Drj820. You're a good poster and community member. You're not mean to people; you're patient with people. You're civil in your disagreements. But GOODNESS it's frustrating to have to respond to something so trite as "he's played football a long time. He should be able to throw a pass to an open receiver"

I understand what you are saying and didn’t mean to be contrarian. I just honesty feel like it was a bad first showing for Love at mini camp today, and I don’t feel like I should have to wait years to say that. This kid could be 3 months away from starting in front of 70k people, he’s played quarterback for a while and can toss the ball, I hope he can get wide open WRs. They rarely are wide open, gotta hit em when they are.

I agree with your footwork stuff, and trust me...I value your insight and think you are extremely smart when it comes to this stuff...I am just of the opinion that a first rounder in year two should hit wide open guys. Now, I know he won’t always, and that’s expected. But when asked Im not gonna say...well I’l give him a few more months to miss open guys, I’m just gonna say “dang he really needs to learn how to hit that pass, and quick”

Now I'm reminded of McNabb's pass incompletions sometimes .....

[bud fox]

He’s been playing football for many years, I was hoping he could hit wide open WRs in 2 minute drill.

You ever try to change a golf swing, or your shooting form, or anything that you've been doing for a long time?

Like I bowl in this stupid, straight-ahead underhanded fashion. I'm fine with it. It works for me. I can go bowling with my friends over some beers and come in second place and have a good time.

But if I want to get BETTER and I want to reach my ceiling, I have to CHANGE the way I do comfortable things. When you do that, you get worse first. Because you're not doing the thing that that you've always done. You're doing a NEW process.

That's why it takes time for young QBs who have a lot to clean up. You have to UNlearn. And then you have to learn new things. And you have to practice it the new way until you get it down pat, become comfortable, and can put it back together. That's why so many QBs who succeed early in their careers plateau, because they never took the time to change their comfort level. They don't get worse for a little while, and that looks good as far as making an early impact. But if they ever want to truly excel, they need to go through that process at some point. It's best to get it done with to START your career.

That is why I think the better look at whether or not you should sit a QB as a rookie is not how they play in year one, but how they're playing in years 3, 5, 7... That's why even though VERY few QBs sit out their first years in the league, those who DO sit out their first years in the league include like 5 of the 7 current first ballot hall of famers. Because when you deconstruct first, then reconstruct, you have a much better chance at eventually reaching your ceiling.

If your young QB looks like a baller right away, he either came into the league with really really good mechanics, or you're failing to correct his bad habits for short term gain that will cost the player and team some small level of success as their career progresses. That's why we think there's a QB shortage in the league. Only like 5 teams bother to use the right process. I am stoked we are one of those teams, consistently, for like 30 years.

Year 7 lol Gute is that you? Yoho generally I have felt you are quite a good poster but I think you are leaning so far in this Rodgers take you are losing it. 7 years? Possibly that was Brohm's MVP season.

[NCF]

1) I just posted a bunch of pressers and some commentary about what I think are my takeaways and it gets immediately partially drowned by the same conversation we're having everywhere else, but more so; much more so...

I mentioned as much when I listened to them live. I am 100% with you on this one. You mentioned takeaways, but then really didn't specify one. For me, it is that I think we can CLEARLY put to bed any fractured locker room stuff. The two biggest leaders on offense just basically came out and said yeah, we support Rodgers, but we are here to do our job and Adams even went out of his way to say, while here, I will support Jordan Love, as well.

Then, Funchess hops on and basically echoes his experiences, which included a Super Bowl run and major QB drama with Andrew Luck retiring, and said "You learn to concern yourself with the 11 you got." Simple, but not so subtle. Brilliant!!

[bud fox]

Also this crazy take if we sit a QB for years to develop they will become favre or Rodgers is nuts. If it was that easy every team would be doing it and getting there HOF QB consistently.

[BF004]

Also this crazy take if we sit a QB for years to develop they will become favre or Rodgers is nuts. If it was that easy every team would be doing it and getting there HOF QB consistently.

There is a huge difference in saying it is totally fine if he wasn’t ready as a rookie, especially last offseason of all offseasons, and if he sits for a long time he will be a HOF QB.

Is this really what you think you are reading here? Maybe focus on what people actually say and don’t make absurd extrapolations.

[Yoop]

f your young QB looks like a baller right away, he either came into the league with really really good mechanics, or you're failing to correct his bad habits for short term gain that will cost the player and team some small level of success as their career progresses. That's why we think there's a QB shortage in the league. Only like 5 teams bother to use the right process. I am stoked we are one of those teams, consistently, for like 30 years.

Favre started, what? the 2nd or 3 game his first season with us,, Rodgers is the only QB in the currant era that sat for 3 years and thats because we had Favre, and Rodgers wants a trade because he doesn't trust Guty to allow him to finish his contract even if he is the best QB, and I bet he's right, the beyond stuff that Murphy said is so vague, why not just put some years to that remark, he doesn't because Rodgers is probably right, the plan was this year, and if LOve is ready to just manage a game Rodgers is traded, your loyalty to this FO is clouding your judgement, and while they want and would welcome Rodgers back, what they really want is trade value.

\just look at 019 draft, mostly futures picks, we may have planned to give Love a couple off seasons to prep up, and covid did destroy his first one, but this front office imo to start Love next year.

you make it sound as though this FO doesn't do anything wrong, when the last 5 years has been riddled bad decisions, Giving Rodgers the extension, allowing Ted, Mike, Capers, and the turnstyle of ST's coaches to languish in those Jobs was terrible management.

the changes finally made have been good for the roster, but this plan to prep rookie QB's for 3 seasons only came to fruition because Favre didn't leave sooner, and Rodgers was ready a year before he finally did leave, ya don't need to groom a rookie QB for 3 years, if it takes that long you made a poor choice.

[BF004]

I think the forum must have glitched again and had Mike quote [mention]bud fox[/mention] there instead of [mention]YoHoChecko[/mention] two posts up.

I’ll have the tech team dig into what could possibly be causing this.

[Yoop]

I think the forum must have glitched again and had Mike quote @bud fox there instead of @YoHoChecko two posts up.

I’ll have the tech team dig into what could possibly be causing this.

no, I just wrote you a nasty, ( joking) thought it over, and just snipped my post, the point of it was that Bud has no problem reading that I've noticed, and Yoho is so over board loyal to a FO that has blundered along for half a decade making one mistake after another, and now because of there authoritarian actions have pissed off the best player the team has had since Bart Starr, and this plan the team has for grooming rookie QB's is actually a slice of swiss cheese, one QB in the last 50 years was allowed to groom up, and only because Favre stuck around.

I delete almost as many that I post, so to save you the time of doing it.

[Drj820]

Yeah I fully understand Love will need time and this stuff takes time I just

1) think the calendar year he has been on the roster counts as time and

2) when looking to see if the arrow is pointing up or down for him would take overthrowing wide open guys multiple times as an arrow pointing down.

I think Rodgers is coming back, but if not...Love basically has 3 months bc this roster is ready to win and he’s not gonna have until 2025 to get ready while squandering the talent we have on the roster.

Not all QBs fail bc they didn’t get to sit a few years, they fail bc they walk into terrible situations with coaches that can’t develop them and awful rosters and dysfunction. That’s why those teams pick at the top of the drafts.

Love has a great roster, a great coach, and has already had a year to learn. The clocks ticking on him in my eyes.

[YoHoChecko]

I mentioned as much when I listened to them live. I am 100% with you on this one. You mentioned takeaways, but then really didn't specify one. For me, it is that I think we can CLEARLY put to bed any fractured locker room stuff. The two biggest leaders on offense just basically came out and said yeah, we support Rodgers, but we are here to do our job and Adams even went out of his way to say, while here, I will support Jordan Love, as well.

Then, Funchess hops on and basically echoes his experiences, which included a Super Bowl run and major QB drama with Andrew Luck retiring, and said "You learn to concern yourself with the 11 you got." Simple, but not so subtle. Brilliant!!

Yes. 100%

My takeaway as well. The locker room can handle this. They’re not divided or close to dividing. Adams comments about Love were extremely supportive as well. I was so nervous about Adams’ mindset this offseason based on some social media and contract rumors. But he’s here to grind and win for the Packers, regardless of the stuff outside his control.

[Yoop]

I think the forum must have glitched again and had Mike quote @bud fox there instead of @YoHoChecko two posts up.

I’ll have the tech team dig into what could possibly be causing this.

wow, your right, I didn't even notice Bud headed that post, that should have beenYoho, as is easy to see those are his words not Buds.

<snip>