Whose Side Are You On?

[Drj820]

We would have to outbid everyone by millions like we did with Turner, the smiths, and Amos. The cap is in trouble bc we overpaid those guys while still paying Rodgers so much

Except they aren't overpaid. They are playing up to those contracts with the exception of Preston last year. Turner seemed way overpaid and is now a discount starting OT in the league. Amos is outplaying his contract honestly. Za'Darius is right in line with his paycheck. The narrative that our cap trouble is due to "overpayments" is weak. It's due to having too many really good players.

I was gonna write the same. I mean, yes, UFAs aren't cheap, not even beyond the 1st silly money tier (and none of our 2019 signings got top tier money that year).

I bet if one were to compare our 2019 FA haul to any team, we'd look REAL good overall. Probably a good topic for a thread on a slow day.

I said the correct term at first and the wrong term after that. They are not “overpaid” but they ALL said they came to GB bc we “overbid” for their services by millions. Now, I understand this must be done to secure the FAs services sometimes, but it is a good way to get in cap trouble that doesn’t have anything to do with Rodgers contract.

[YoHoChecko]

I said the correct term at first and the wrong term after that. They are not “overpaid” but they ALL said they came to GB bc we “overbid” for their services by millions. Now, I understand this must be done to secure the FAs services sometimes, but it is a good way to get in cap trouble that doesn’t have anything to do with Rodgers contract.

I mean, ok. But we're in cap trouble for two reasons, though.

1) The salary cap went down during the peak of our championship window run, and
2) Aaron Rodgers has the highest cap number in the league in 2021 by $5 million (look it up if you want). And in 2022 he's currently listed as the 4th highest, though I'd bet Desean Watson won't remain ahead of him.

It's silly to blame our cap troubles on a $16 M/year deal for a pro bowl edge player and a $9M/year deal for one of the most reliable starting safeties in the league when we have a $37 million cap figure on a player at a position where the next highest figure is $32M.

Aaron Rodgers' cap number is only $3.5 million below Adams, Za'Darius, and Bakhtiari's cap numbers combined in 2021.

Though of course that's in large part because we renegotiated to push those numbers up into '22, where Z jumps to a whopping $28M. That'll have to be changed, as well. But there isn't a lot of wasted money. People like to sniff around the margins on players like Preston and Lowry, but that barely moves the register.

[Drj820]

I said the correct term at first and the wrong term after that. They are not “overpaid” but they ALL said they came to GB bc we “overbid” for their services by millions. Now, I understand this must be done to secure the FAs services sometimes, but it is a good way to get in cap trouble that doesn’t have anything to do with Rodgers contract.

I mean, ok. But we're in cap trouble for two reasons, though.

1) The salary cap went down during the peak of our championship window run, and
2) Aaron Rodgers has the highest cap number in the league in 2021 by $5 million (look it up if you want). And in 2022 he's currently listed as the 4th highest, though I'd bet Desean Watson won't remain ahead of him.

It's silly to blame our cap troubles on a $16 M/year deal for a pro bowl edge player and a $9M/year deal for one of the most reliable starting safeties in the league when we have a $37 million cap figure on a player at a position where the next highest figure is $32M.

Aaron Rodgers' cap number is only $3.5 million below Adams, Za'Darius, and Bakhtiari's cap numbers combined in 2021.

Though of course that's in large part because we renegotiated to push those numbers up into '22, where Z jumps to a whopping $28M. That'll have to be changed, as well. But there isn't a lot of wasted money. People like to sniff around the margins on players like Preston and Lowry, but that barely moves the register.

My original comment was to a post that said Rodgers cap number is a reason the team would be looking to move on. I agree this could be a reason. I just listed other reasons. They include poor drafts that caused us to spend 100 million in free agency. When you do that, a few years down the line you are going to have cap trouble most likely. You then deal with the trouble. I suggest you trim fat in other places than moving on from the MVP QB. If Rodgers wasn’t mad at the team, I bet this years cap number would have been dealt with, like all the other guys cap number gets dealt with. Russ Ball is “allegedly” a genius. You also get cap trouble when you buy those FAs plus pay top dollar for a Bahk and Kenny and soon to be Jaire.

My point is that I think you harped on my point about the free agents. I don’t think it’s that hot of a take that teams that splurge in free agency usually have cap issues a few years down the line. Now, I do agree that Rodgers cap number hurts the team...I just think you deal with that bc he is the MVP and trim fat in other areas. We all think Bahk is great, his number is just as painful as Rodgers for his position yet no one complains.

I’m saying Rodgers cap number should be learned to be lived with, not a reason for moving on while he is the MVP. It’s worth paying top dollar for a position as important as Qb.The anecdote to this problem is to draft players that can play competently while on rookie deals. Dont draft first rounders that don’t start until 3 years down the line.

[YoHoChecko]

But this notion that we’re a team that splurged in free agency because of one offseason is just tough to swallow.

We have four starters on our team acquired through free agency. Only Z is paid like a star. The vast majority of our expensive contracts come from home grown players… Rodgers, Bakh, Clark, Adams, Jones. Amos and Turner are not even remotely expensive NFL starters.

It doesn’t make sense to say we’re in cap trouble because of bad drafting that forced us to splurge in free agency when there was only one such splurge, and that kind of spending would be necessary even if you drafted well. To RETAIN your free agents. All four of those guys were drafted in 2015. If you wanted veterans of that caliber, you’d have to pay them whether you drafted them or someone else did. Even a hometown discount makes only marginal difference.

The reason we have cap problems is because we are paying 7 pro bowlers and five of them are past their rookie contracts. That’s the price of building a championship caliber team around Rodgers. We could have cap space, Rodgers, and go 7-9 again if you want to turn back the clock to 2018. We could go 10-6 every year like we did in 15 and 16.

The team committed to winning by adding four players. Four. If that’s too many free agents or a sign of bad drafting, there’s not a single good team in the league. We’ve even got future cap problems coming down the pile because of MORE good drafting. Because Jaire will be expensive. Because Jenkins will be expensive. Because Gary will be expensive.

For years everyone hated that we never added outside talent to the team, we do it ONE offseason and now it’s a problem? The problem is that our most expensive player apparently wants a raise AND a championship roster.

The team has placed one or two players on the all rookie team every year. This isn’t a problem of bad drafting or even bad management. It’s that the one offseason we made a big investment happened to come a year before a 15% drop in the salary cap. That’s it. And other teams used the flexibility of their lack of large QB contracts out the ability to restructure large QB contracts to make it work, but ours won’t do it.

[YoHoChecko]

Ya know what? I've been on a nice long (warm) walk, and I got to thinking.

Gutey for President.

This dude took over in 2018. What did he do?

Well, he drafted the best CB in the league (while maneuvering an extra first the next year). He signed Aaron Rodgers to a 6-year deal. And he drafted one of the league's 5 best deep threats in the 5th round.

The next offseason, he opened up a 4-year championship window as wide as you really can.

• Hired or took part in hiring MLF

• Signed a Pro Bowl edge rusher before he was a pro bowler

• signed a high-level starter at safety for less than the price of Earl Thomas, who washed out epically

• Signed two starting-level players in Preston and Turner

In this time period, in addition to Rodgers, he went about locking up all the Pro Bowl players on the roster:

• Adams

• Clark

• Bahtiari

• Jones

During this time period, he aggressively attacked our roster weaknesses:

• EDGE - 1st round and 2 FAs

• Safety - first round and a free agent

• TE - Tonyan, two 3rd rounders, and a free agent (Big Dog)

The plan, from 2019 on, is ABUNDANTLY clear. A 4-year window from 2019 - 2022 with Rodgers, MLF, and a stocked roster full of continuity with few glaring weaknesses (ILB and WR2 stand out). It was expensive. It comes with cap risks. And when the cap dropped in 2020, it made it all the more difficult, but they STILL lost only 2 (?) starters to free agency over the past 2 offseasons (Blake Martinez and Linsley, unless I'm forgetting someone or unless we're counting Kirksey)

And the first two years of that 4-year plan resulted in NFC Championship game losses by a team who had missed the playoffs two straight years prior.

And then the QB took his ball and went home halfway through.

Gutey built a wide open championship window, but y'all can't see it because your lord and savior is sad that the plan involved ONE DANGED PICK to plan for the future beyond that.

So yeah, I blame Aaron Rodgers for this. I don't even care what he's mad about when I think about it this way. The team went from rags to riches in no time flat. Went from moribond and directionless, searching for their identity to leading the league in Pro Bowl players in 2 years. Still has tons of ascending players who've proven they belong on rookie contracts (Jenkins, Gary, Savage, Dillon). And now we're wondering if we're a playoff team because the MVP who stunk two years ago had his feelings hurt.

[Yoop]

Gutey built a wide open championship window, but y'all can't see it because your lord and savior is sad that the plan involved ONE DANGED PICK to plan for the future beyond that.

So yeah, I blame Aaron Rodgers for this. I don't even care what he's mad about when I think about it this way. The team went from rags to riches in no time flat. Went from moribond and directionless, searching for their identity to leading the league in Pro Bowl players in 2 years. Still has tons of ascending players who've proven they belong on rookie contracts (Jenkins, Gary, Savage, Dillon). And now we're wondering if we're a playoff team because the MVP who stunk two years ago had his feelings hurt.

1 he didn't sign Rodgers to that contract, Murphy did, and 2. we finally had a GM that did something in FA, # Gary is into year 3 and has not been voted to a PB, so he spent slot 12 on a pass rusher thats not even yet been named the starter, after he spent a 100 mil plus on two pass rushers, when we could have used a a DT that probably would have contributed his first year and helped us in the PO's when we couldn't stop the run

Guty's done a good job of pissing off some players most notably his very best player.

and where not blind to anything you just said, your acting as though your the only person that recognizes that Guty is doing stuff that Ted had neglected to do, to what, point out that Rodgers should bow down and kiss his feet, well if Rodgers sits, and Love fails, everything Guty did wont matter, all that will matter is the loss column, now Rodgers may be acting like a jerk, but according to the players the FO has been acting that way for years, so it goes both ways..

[YoHoChecko]

28-8.

[Yoop]

28-8.

thanks to Aaron Rodgers

[Raptorman]

Jordan Love looked terrible!
Jordan Love looked great!

Gotta get those views...

I'll wait until I see some actual plays from scrimmage.

No QB with only 4 letters in his name has ever won a Super Bowl.

Fran?

;-)

Last name. Besides his name was Francis.

[RingoCStarrQB]

No QB with only 4 letters in his name has ever won a Super Bowl.

Fran?

;-)

Last name. Besides his name was Francis.

Ryan and Goff are the other 2 .......... along with Kapp.

[bud fox]

Yoho is right on timing. Packers management has really stuffed up to put us in this situation. They have obviously caused significant damage with there treatment of the best player in the league and it has coincided with one of the worst cap periods of all time.

I don't think anyone can argue that Rodgers should be one of the highest paid in the league. A restructure would help from a cap perspective but given Rodgers current attitude towards the front office it would not benefit him at all. I assume Rodgers has restructured before throughout his career?

I guess the timing aspect is unlucky but just amplifies the problem caused by the front office.

[lupedafiasco]

Gutey built a wide open championship window, but y'all can't see it because your lord and savior is sad that the plan involved ONE DANGED PICK to plan for the future beyond that.

It was one god damn awful pick.

Ive said it before. The front office thought Rodgers was done because of their ego. "How could it be the Packers fault the team is struggling. It must be the QB." They didnt have the foresight to realize MM was the problem and they didnt give Rodgers the time necessary to learn LaFleurs system. Schemes almost always struggle year one. The Love pick sent a message to the QB and it was received. It said loud and clear we dont believe in you anymore. I wouldnt want to play for someone who lost faith in me.

[YoHoChecko]

It was one god damn awful pick.

Ive said it before. The front office thought Rodgers was done because of their ego. "How could it be the Packers fault the team is struggling. It must be the QB." They didnt have the foresight to realize MM was the problem and they didnt give Rodgers the time necessary to learn LaFleurs system. Schemes almost always struggle year one. The Love pick sent a message to the QB and it was received. It said loud and clear we dont believe in you anymore. I wouldnt want to play for someone who lost faith in me.

Yo. That’s a lot of interpretation and reading into things. No offense bro, but that feels like a you issue. That’s some projection. They just made a danged pick, man.

[Yoop]

the gall and insubordination, of that first ballot HOF QB to question our decision making, (Murphy to Gute game 7, 018 ) now look, he audibles out of every play Mike sends in, ehhh, we should probably have just fired Mike last year, that $%@# Rodgers, I'll stick it to that sob someday, he just couldn't stick to our plan, not a team player, etc, etc.

[texas]

Yeah it's like the pro-Rodgers crowd is living in a different reality than the rest of us. Not to say we're correct and they're wrong, but they just look at things totally differently.

[BF004]

Gutey built a wide open championship window, but y'all can't see it because your lord and savior is sad that the plan involved ONE DANGED PICK to plan for the future beyond that.

It was one god damn awful pick.

Ive said it before. The front office thought Rodgers was done because of their ego. "How could it be the Packers fault the team is struggling. It must be the QB." They didnt have the foresight to realize MM was the problem and they didnt give Rodgers the time necessary to learn LaFleurs system. Schemes almost always struggle year one. The Love pick sent a message to the QB and it was received. It said loud and clear we dont believe in you anymore. I wouldnt want to play for someone who lost faith in me.

They didn’t believe in him because of ego, what? Like say that out loud and think about order of events. How can that possibly make sense in your head.

And the team was struggling? They were 13-3 and in the NFC Championship game.

They just made him the highest paid player in NFL history and restructured his contract year one kicking more potential dead money down the road.

Just sounds entirely like they saw someone they really like at by far the most important position in football.

I’m completely on team I didn’t like that pick, but yikes, embarrassing our side with that drivel. Do better, man. That made zero sense on any possible level.

[BF004]

Yeah it's like the pro-Rodgers crowd is living in a different reality than the rest of us. Not to say we're correct and they're wrong, but they just look at things totally differently.

And it seems like a competition on who can say the most asinine things or take something the furthest out of context.

[lupedafiasco]

Gutey built a wide open championship window, but y'all can't see it because your lord and savior is sad that the plan involved ONE DANGED PICK to plan for the future beyond that.

It was one god damn awful pick.

Ive said it before. The front office thought Rodgers was done because of their ego. "How could it be the Packers fault the team is struggling. It must be the QB." They didnt have the foresight to realize MM was the problem and they didnt give Rodgers the time necessary to learn LaFleurs system. Schemes almost always struggle year one. The Love pick sent a message to the QB and it was received. It said loud and clear we dont believe in you anymore. I wouldnt want to play for someone who lost faith in me.

They didn’t believe in him because of ego, what? Like say that out loud and think about order of events. How can that possibly make sense in your head.

And the team was struggling? They were 13-3 and in the NFC Championship game.

They just made him the highest paid player in NFL history and restructured his contract year one kicking more potential dead money down the road.

Just sounds entirely like they saw someone they really like at by far the most important position in football.

I’m completely on team I didn’t like that pick, but yikes, embarrassing our side with that drivel. Do better, man. That made zero sense on any possible level.

I mean if you think the Packers picked Love just because they liked him and not to push Rodgers out I can’t help you. You’re just naive.

This front office thought there was nothing wrong with them. Never mind MMs scheme sucked. Never mind the talent wasn’t there when LaFleur took over. They took 3 WRs and they all sucked. They signed Jimmy Graham to a big deal and he sucked. They were throwing &%$@ resources at Rodgers and wondered why he was struggling.

[YoHoChecko]

In 2018 the GM was replaced, Aaron Rodgers was signed to a six year deal that at the time set the NFL record for new money per new year ($34M x 4 years), and the head coach was fired.

Yet some want us to believe that the organization blamed Rodgers for the poor play in 2017 and 2018, rather than the coach and GM who got fired.

Think about how absurd that is.

The organization chose and prioritized Rodgers. They set about assembling a better team around him and extending a championship window over the course of his new contract that THEY signed him to. And the changes are clearly working.

[Yoop]

in 2018 the GM was FINALLY replaced, Rodgers was extended 4 more year, and was given the richest contract to date of any player, however minus guarantee's which the QB didn't fore see needing, the coach was given a lame duck season to show, who knows what, almost everything about his offensive game plans had not changed, our offense looked like the hardest to have success with as any offense in the league, Rodgers revolted and FINALLY McCarthy was fired, 019 Lafluer was hired, and his new schemes took a season to sink in for most of the players including the QB, however it showed how well everyone grasped it when minus almost any off season training the offense was hitting on all cylinders from the very first game of the 2020 season, about the only reason for it to stall during the season had to do with injury's to the OL, and major coverage issues at CB

the organization believed so much in Rodgers which I believe they did, why draft his replacement 5 years before the end of the extension they gave him, why not guarantee at least some of that contract beyond the signing bonus,

I think it's clear, they took Love in hopes that they could trade Rodgers after this season, covid it would appear has extended that time frame to after 2022, Rodgers would be 2 years older, and his attractiveness will probably diminish even if his skillset hasn't, just guessing now that that is a factor with his desire to be traded now, or the pressure to enhance his contract with some sort of guarantee's, and I don't blame him for that.