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Rodgers was fed up with McCarthy long before it became obvious to us, I bet he was upset when McCarthy was given that one year contract, and he acted like that the whole season, rarely using called plays, and I don't think he talked to McCarthy during games at all, my impression is that it became so futile a situation Murphy stepped in and fired McCarthy
Once again. Believe and live by what you just wrote early today.
common sense, and simply believing in events as they transpired, and not listening to made up drama points and conspiracy BS paints a fairly clear picture.
What we know is that Ted Mike reached the end of their line. We also know that Mac was fired after playoff chances were all but eliminated and he was fired because the team stunk and lost a lot of games. I never viewed the Mac firing because of the relationship with Rodgers. He was fired because the Packers were losers and had been trending as losers for anywhere from 3 - 5 years. It likely ended two years too late but that's usually what happens with legends. They get the benefit of the doubt and have their reign extended. This is even happening with Rodgers. Just look at the ire because the Packers drafted a QB two years earlier than people wanted.
Rodgers was fed up with McCarthy long before it became obvious to us, I bet he was upset when McCarthy was given that one year contract, and he acted like that the whole season, rarely using called plays, and I don't think he talked to McCarthy during games at all, my impression is that it became so futile a situation Murphy stepped in and fired McCarthy
Once again. Believe and live by what you just wrote early today.
common sense, and simply believing in events as they transpired, and not listening to made up drama points and conspiracy BS paints a fairly clear picture.
What we know is that Ted Mike reached the end of their line. We also know that Mac was fired after playoff chances were all but eliminated and he was fired because the team stunk and lost a lot of games. I never viewed the Mac firing because of the relationship with Rodgers. He was fired because the Packers were losers and had been trending as losers for anywhere from 3 - 5 years. It likely ended two years too late but that's usually what happens with legends. They get the benefit of the doubt and have their reign extended. This is even happening with Rodgers. Just look at the ire because the Packers drafted a QB two years earlier than people wanted.
you act as though where not suppose to read between the lines, and look at why stuff happens, only that it does happen, and all 3 of Ted, McCarthy and Capers where in there jobs 3 years to long, that you want to accept that as hard to get rid of Legends might be acceptable to you, but why would you think that would be acceptable to a QB on the last leg of a HOF career? Rodgers wanted change, instead he got McCarthy for another year, what a disapointment that must have been, and we saw it play out every week.
You know we've spent 93 pages so for on what might happen.
well we fell off pace there a couple weeks back, or we probably would have hit the 100 page mark in under two months, which might possibly be a thread speed record for most pages in the shortest amount of time
Ultimately the packers management just made a bad selfish move.
The irony.
How dare they prepare for the future rather than putting all their eggs into the basket of a 35 year old who demands to be the highest paid QB in the league for the next 6 years and was missing in action in the playoffs. How dare they draft a probable replacement.
Also to your last point - don't sign him to an extension to be the starting QB to the end of 2023. Offer a 1 yr or a 2 year or don't offer anything. Ultimately the packers management just made a bad selfish move. Gute, La Fleur and the new group wanted and still want to build there team. Every management group wants to have there team. To do that they need a new QB. They couldn't move on that whilst Rodgers was GOAT level but after 2019 they thought he was dropping to a level where it could be substantiated in moving to that new direction. They were majorly wrong. They could have kept building with with the best QB of all time but instead jumped the gun.
I think you're reading too much into their plans., You're assuming that in August 2018, the GM and team had already decided to draft a QB in 2020. I presume you don't believe they had already decided on Love, but you must be assuming they had decided on A.N.Quarterback in the first round.
I don't believe they did. They drafted Love IMO because he was available and because they believe that he might be the next great QB. It's not a selfish move, or if it is selfish, then so be it - it is important that the GM does his best for the team even if that isn't the best for the current QB. Was it selfish and wrong to pay a 1st rounder for Favre when we had Majkowski? Was it selfish and wrong to draft Rodgers when we had Favre? If not, why is it selfish and wrong to draft Love when we had Rodgers?
Let alone the fact having a potential competent and high potential prospect at the most important position where our QB1 has been significantly injured in 2013, 2014, 2017 and 2018...
That's over the half seasons from 2013 - 2019 prior to when the Packers took Love that Rodgers suffered a significant injury. The Packers were idiots for not making backup QB a priority and now the Packers are idiots and selfish for making backup QB a priority.
Let alone the fact having a potential competent and high potential prospect at the most important position where our QB1 has been significantly injured in 2013, 2014, 2017 and 2018...
That's over the half seasons from 2013 - 2019 prior to when the Packers took Love that Rodgers suffered a significant injury. The Packers were idiots for not making backup QB a priority and now the Packers are idiots and selfish for making backup QB a priority.
When you put it that way, history would suggest that Rodgers is due for another injury, even if minor, so not the worst thing in the world that we have 2 #1 draft picks in camp currently to back him up if that happens.
In 2017, no QBs were selected between 12th and 52nd. Those QBs were Deshawn Watson at 12 and DeShone Kizer at 52.
In 2018 only 1 QB was selected between pick 10 and pick 76. At pick 10 was Josh Rosen; at pick 76 was Mason Rudolph. And the 32nd pick in the draft was a bet on a high-upside Lamar Jackson.
In 2019 no QBs were selected between 15th and 42nd. Those QBs were Dwayne Haskins at 15 and Drew Lock at 42.
In 2021 no QBs were selected between 15th and 64th. Those QBs were Mac Jones at 15 and Kyle Trask at 64.
I list these to point out that it is not every year that a QB with first round upside is available at 26 or 30. When a QB like that is available, it often comes with a gamble, such as Lamar Jackson who many thought couldn't play QB in the league, and for whom the Ravens totally revamped their offensive scheme to make him a success (good for them).
It's also to point out that in some years, guys like Mac Jones and Dwayne Haskins go 15th overall. And say what you will about Mac Jones' processing and mental awareness, don't try to tell me those guys have more TALENT than Jordan Love.
A better argument might be made (and will be made by yoop) that Love seems more like Lock and Kizer, who went in the middle of the second. I believe that Love is more talented than both; more accurate than both; but I understand his shortcomings in mental processing and decision-making draw some comparisons.
But the point is that
a) you CANNOT plan to draft a QB at 26 or at 30 in advance. It would be a dumb plan because there usually will not be one worth taking there. There's no way to expect one to be there. Usually, even in QB-heavy drafts, the scarcity element gets them off the board by the middle of the first round (see the 15th, 12th, 10th referenced above).
b) You can't just pick a QB in the late first round "any year" as some claim. The trend clearly shows that the "top" QBs generally go in the top half of the round, and after that, there's a big jump before you get to more longshot candidates like Lock and Kizer and Mason frickin Rudolph
c) I'd way rather have Jordan Love than Dwayne Haskins or Mac Jones, talent, upside, development-wise.
In 2017, no QBs were selected between 12th and 52nd. Those QBs were Deshawn Watson at 12 and DeShone Kizer at 52.
In 2018 only 1 QB was selected between pick 10 and pick 76. At pick 10 was Josh Rosen; at pick 76 was Mason Rudolph. And the 32nd pick in the draft was a bet on a high-upside Lamar Jackson.
In 2019 no QBs were selected between 15th and 42nd. Those QBs were Dwayne Haskins at 15 and Drew Lock at 42.
In 2021 no QBs were selected between 15th and 64th. Those QBs were Mac Jones at 15 and Kyle Trask at 64.
I list these to point out that it is not every year that a QB with first round upside is available at 26 or 30. When a QB like that is available, it often comes with a gamble, such as Lamar Jackson who many thought couldn't play QB in the league, and for whom the Ravens totally revamped their offensive scheme to make him a success (good for them).
It's also to point out that in some years, guys like Mac Jones and Dwayne Haskins go 15th overall. And say what you will about Mac Jones' processing and mental awareness, don't try to tell me those guys have more TALENT than Jordan Love.
A better argument might be made (and will be made by yoop) that Love seems more like Lock and Kizer, who went in the middle of the second. I believe that Love is more talented than both; more accurate than both; but I understand his shortcomings in mental processing and decision-making draw some comparisons.
But the point is that
a) you CANNOT plan to draft a QB at 26 or at 30 in advance. It would be a dumb plan because there usually will not be one worth taking there. There's no way to expect one to be there. Usually, even in QB-heavy drafts, the scarcity element gets them off the board by the middle of the first round (see the 15th, 12th, 10th referenced above).
b) You can't just pick a QB in the late first round "any year" as some claim. The trend clearly shows that the "top" QBs generally go in the top half of the round, and after that, there's a big jump before you get to more longshot candidates like Lock and Kizer and Mason frickin Rudolph
c) I'd way rather have Jordan Love than Dwayne Haskins or Mac Jones, talent, upside, development-wise.
YoHo, If I had a special award to give you, I'd give it to you. Because you have posted original content, after this thread has already gone on for, oh, maybe a gazillion pages. At least. But you somehow managed to post a new thought.
If you or somebody else had posted your thoughts above on an earlier page, I just missed it. That's entirely possible because I don't know how anybody could really know what has happened on NINETY-THREE actual pages.
So, I give you my hearty congratulations! Seriously!
:-)
Maybe after all of these posts by virtually everybody, the Pack and Aaron Rodgers will simmer down and get back to business.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
YoHo, If I had a special award to give you, I'd give it to you. Because you have posted original content, after this thread has already gone on for, oh, maybe a gazillion pages. At least. But you somehow managed to post a new thought.
If you or somebody else had posted your thoughts above on an earlier page, I just missed it. That's entirely possible because I don't know how anybody could really know what has happened on NINETY-THREE actual pages.
So, I give you my hearty congratulations! Seriously!
:-)
Maybe after all of these posts by virtually everybody, the Pack and Aaron Rodgers will simmer down and get back to business.
Go Pack Go has made similar arguments. Or maybe 23. I dunno. But I used bullet points and details, so thanks!
In 2017, no QBs were selected between 12th and 52nd. Those QBs were Deshawn Watson at 12 and DeShone Kizer at 52.
In 2018 only 1 QB was selected between pick 10 and pick 76. At pick 10 was Josh Rosen; at pick 76 was Mason Rudolph. And the 32nd pick in the draft was a bet on a high-upside Lamar Jackson.
In 2019 no QBs were selected between 15th and 42nd. Those QBs were Dwayne Haskins at 15 and Drew Lock at 42.
In 2021 no QBs were selected between 15th and 64th. Those QBs were Mac Jones at 15 and Kyle Trask at 64.
I list these to point out that it is not every year that a QB with first round upside is available at 26 or 30. When a QB like that is available, it often comes with a gamble, such as Lamar Jackson who many thought couldn't play QB in the league, and for whom the Ravens totally revamped their offensive scheme to make him a success (good for them).
It's also to point out that in some years, guys like Mac Jones and Dwayne Haskins go 15th overall. And say what you will about Mac Jones' processing and mental awareness, don't try to tell me those guys have more TALENT than Jordan Love.
A better argument might be made (and will be made by yoop) that Love seems more like Lock and Kizer, who went in the middle of the second. I believe that Love is more talented than both; more accurate than both; but I understand his shortcomings in mental processing and decision-making draw some comparisons.
But the point is that
a) you CANNOT plan to draft a QB at 26 or at 30 in advance. It would be a dumb plan because there usually will not be one worth taking there. There's no way to expect one to be there. Usually, even in QB-heavy drafts, the scarcity element gets them off the board by the middle of the first round (see the 15th, 12th, 10th referenced above).
b) You can't just pick a QB in the late first round "any year" as some claim. The trend clearly shows that the "top" QBs generally go in the top half of the round, and after that, there's a big jump before you get to more longshot candidates like Lock and Kizer and Mason frickin Rudolph
c) I'd way rather have Jordan Love than Dwayne Haskins or Mac Jones, talent, upside, development-wise.
If I go back more to 2016, we have 1 QB selected between pick 2 (Carson Wentz) and pick 51 (Christian Hackenberg) and that was Paxton Lynch going 26th.
In 2015, no QBs were taken between pick 2 (Marcus Mariota) and pick 75 (Garrett Grayson?)
So in the 5 years before Love was drafted, only Lamar Jackson and Paxton Lynch were drafted between 15th and 42. Lamar Jackson was a high-upside gamble. Paxton Lynch was... I mean he was tall! Almost 6'7"!
The point is, it's pretty rare in this day and age to get a high-upside QB at the end of the first round. When the opportunity comes, taking it should not be considered outlandish.
In 2017, no QBs were selected between 12th and 52nd. Those QBs were Deshawn Watson at 12 and DeShone Kizer at 52.
In 2018 only 1 QB was selected between pick 10 and pick 76. At pick 10 was Josh Rosen; at pick 76 was Mason Rudolph. And the 32nd pick in the draft was a bet on a high-upside Lamar Jackson.
In 2019 no QBs were selected between 15th and 42nd. Those QBs were Dwayne Haskins at 15 and Drew Lock at 42.
In 2021 no QBs were selected between 15th and 64th. Those QBs were Mac Jones at 15 and Kyle Trask at 64.
I list these to point out that it is not every year that a QB with first round upside is available at 26 or 30. When a QB like that is available, it often comes with a gamble, such as Lamar Jackson who many thought couldn't play QB in the league, and for whom the Ravens totally revamped their offensive scheme to make him a success (good for them).
It's also to point out that in some years, guys like Mac Jones and Dwayne Haskins go 15th overall. And say what you will about Mac Jones' processing and mental awareness, don't try to tell me those guys have more TALENT than Jordan Love.
A better argument might be made (and will be made by yoop) that Love seems more like Lock and Kizer, who went in the middle of the second. I believe that Love is more talented than both; more accurate than both; but I understand his shortcomings in mental processing and decision-making draw some comparisons.
But the point is that
a) you CANNOT plan to draft a QB at 26 or at 30 in advance. It would be a dumb plan because there usually will not be one worth taking there. There's no way to expect one to be there. Usually, even in QB-heavy drafts, the scarcity element gets them off the board by the middle of the first round (see the 15th, 12th, 10th referenced above).
b) You can't just pick a QB in the late first round "any year" as some claim. The trend clearly shows that the "top" QBs generally go in the top half of the round, and after that, there's a big jump before you get to more longshot candidates like Lock and Kizer and Mason frickin Rudolph
c) I'd way rather have Jordan Love than Dwayne Haskins or Mac Jones, talent, upside, development-wise.
If I go back more to 2016, we have 1 QB selected between pick 2 (Carson Wentz) and pick 51 (Christian Hackenberg) and that was Paxton Lynch going 26th.
In 2015, no QBs were taken between pick 2 (Marcus Mariota) and pick 75 (Garrett Grayson?)
So in the 5 years before Love was drafted, only Lamar Jackson and Paxton Lynch were drafted between 15th and 42. Lamar Jackson was a high-upside gamble. Paxton Lynch was... I mean he was tall! Almost 6'7"!
The point is, it's pretty rare in this day and age to get a high-upside QB at the end of the first round. When the opportunity comes, taking it should not be considered outlandish.
In 2017, no QBs were selected between 12th and 52nd. Those QBs were Deshawn Watson at 12 and DeShone Kizer at 52.
In 2018 only 1 QB was selected between pick 10 and pick 76. At pick 10 was Josh Rosen; at pick 76 was Mason Rudolph. And the 32nd pick in the draft was a bet on a high-upside Lamar Jackson.
In 2019 no QBs were selected between 15th and 42nd. Those QBs were Dwayne Haskins at 15 and Drew Lock at 42.
In 2021 no QBs were selected between 15th and 64th. Those QBs were Mac Jones at 15 and Kyle Trask at 64.
I list these to point out that it is not every year that a QB with first round upside is available at 26 or 30. When a QB like that is available, it often comes with a gamble, such as Lamar Jackson who many thought couldn't play QB in the league, and for whom the Ravens totally revamped their offensive scheme to make him a success (good for them).
It's also to point out that in some years, guys like Mac Jones and Dwayne Haskins go 15th overall. And say what you will about Mac Jones' processing and mental awareness, don't try to tell me those guys have more TALENT than Jordan Love.
A better argument might be made (and will be made by yoop) that Love seems more like Lock and Kizer, who went in the middle of the second. I believe that Love is more talented than both; more accurate than both; but I understand his shortcomings in mental processing and decision-making draw some comparisons.
But the point is that
a) you CANNOT plan to draft a QB at 26 or at 30 in advance. It would be a dumb plan because there usually will not be one worth taking there. There's no way to expect one to be there. Usually, even in QB-heavy drafts, the scarcity element gets them off the board by the middle of the first round (see the 15th, 12th, 10th referenced above).
b) You can't just pick a QB in the late first round "any year" as some claim. The trend clearly shows that the "top" QBs generally go in the top half of the round, and after that, there's a big jump before you get to more longshot candidates like Lock and Kizer and Mason frickin Rudolph
c) I'd way rather have Jordan Love than Dwayne Haskins or Mac Jones, talent, upside, development-wise.
I would say that what a QB does in college doesn't always insure that he will be a good pro QB, since the bust rate is so high, there all a gamble, so much has to do with coaching and scheme fit as well as receiver talent for it to work out.
we'll see where Love stands once he starts some pro games, either way Rodgers deserved a heads up.
YoHo, If I had a special award to give you, I'd give it to you. Because you have posted original content, after this thread has already gone on for, oh, maybe a gazillion pages. At least. But you somehow managed to post a new thought.
If you or somebody else had posted your thoughts above on an earlier page, I just missed it. That's entirely possible because I don't know how anybody could really know what has happened on NINETY-THREE actual pages.
So, I give you my hearty congratulations! Seriously!
:-)
Maybe after all of these posts by virtually everybody, the Pack and Aaron Rodgers will simmer down and get back to business.
Go Pack Go has made similar arguments. Or maybe 23. I dunno. But I used bullet points and details, so thanks!
You'd think by the amount of Management Reports I make that I'd learn to present the information via bullets!!
Your information was presented better. Your data by actually pulling prior year drafts were better.
This was discussed like 60 pages ago and honestly we went away from the "Packers drafting Jordan Love is why Rodgers should be mad (remember Antonio Brown?). But there is an obsession to defend Rodgers's actions and make the FO the bad guys that just can't go away. So we see a LOT of recycling here.
Did I like the pick at the time? No.
Do I think at some point rubber will need to meet the road and there will be a likely breakup because of actions the Front Office did? Yes.
Do I think regardless of that the Packers are in a clear WIN NOW window from 2019 - 2022 and Rodgers is unnecessarily fighting a battle that is 2 years premature and as a result hurting that current window? Absolutely. Case in point, I think the window closed already at minimum from 2022 to 2021 (one year less) because of Rodgers actions during this offseason. And if he doesn't shape up here in a month, the window will get closed by two years. And that's on him.
Do I think the Packers management should learn some things on how they conduct business? Absolutely. Opening lines of communication is easy and clearly a good thing they should do.
But if that is ultimately what we are looking at here, "The Packers should have told Corey we want you but can't afford you and told Rodgers we still love you immediately after drafting Love (or giving him warning before the draft beyond Gute publicly saying if one is available we could potentially take one)....does that deserve the star QB to turn his back on his HC, teammates, fans, city of Green Bay, etc?
That is ultimately where I am lost and why I just can't see a world where Rodgers isn't the starting QB of the Packers come the end of July.
If we are being fair and railing against the Packers for their poor communication, we gotta rail against Rodgers for doing all this just to prove a point. That's pretty poor communication too.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 28 Jun 2021 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I mean he was tall! Almost 6'7"!
