Rodgers wants out

[Yoop]

Perhaps you should look at your post on the previous page - time stamped July 10 at 16:28 - for the answer.

whoops, I glanced back but missed it, I suppose I thought it was deleted because GPG acts as though he didn't read it.

Perhaps next time you suspect the Mods are conspiring to throw a debate against you, you'll send a message in a PM for clarification rather than making a public accusation.

I can do that, which one of you do I send it to?

[go pak go]

Perhaps you should look at your post on the previous page - time stamped July 10 at 16:28 - for the answer.

whoops, I glanced back but missed it, I suppose I thought it was deleted because GPG acts as though he didn't read it.

Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.

I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.

Ultimately, I think there are three main parties to blame.

1. Packers have had instances where they did not live up their end. Particularly decisions from 2013 - 2015....TT made some really poor decisions.

2. Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers were not good leaders when it mattered most. Honestly, MLF wasn't either. When the game was on the line, he was a poor leader and didn't feed AJ the ball. He took the scared way out and trusted #12 when he should have trusted #28. MM made critical errors. I would actually even elevate that to the Packers leaders in general (I'm looking at you Davante, Jones and Z). Our highest paid players always play smaller when we need them to play bigger (outside of Jaire and Clark)

3. Luck. The Packers have about as bad of luck as I can remember any team over a 20 year span.

But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.

Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decisions.

I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.

Our primary difference is you're an incredibly emotional dude and tremendous homer. Which means you will defend everyone and everything when it suits you and pull no daggers back to defend your position or chosen party of the day...even if it means if you attack somethin else you love in its place.

I mean one day you attack our talentless stooges WRs when it suits why Rodgers sucks or the next day you will defend our amazing and fast WRs when you feel someone is bashing WRs who play for the team you love. You do the same for coaches such as MM, MLF, Capers, TT, Gute. You also use really strong language like "carry the team on back, laughing stock, three stooges, etc." The language you use most definitely puts you in the group that the supporting cast, coaching staff and front office are a bunch of talentless idiots since 2010.

The only thing you will never deter from though, based on my observation of your posts for forever, is you will talk about the "idea" of saying Rodgers isn't perfect. But will never actually pin him on part of the blame.

So we basically get, "how do you expect the coaches to coach well when there is no talent" to "how do you expect the talent to come out when the coaches can't coach"...etc.

[Yoop]

why your so intent on narrowing it done to this play or that player makes no sense when multiple plays and players each make mistakes,

I quit reading after this because I realized you didn't read my post.

But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.

Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decsisions.

I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.

now I think we are on the same page, little early to blame MLF of the same fails as McCarthy in big games, he was severly handicapped with Jones and Bak injured, sure we can blame him for not running more, but the Bucs scoring 14 points to finish the first and start the second half will get a Coach to over thinking himself, and worrying about playing catch up ball, losing Jones short ball ability really hurt, no real slot receiver, and no time for Rodgers to throw, I brought up Adams before, his stats are a tail of the tape 11 receptions for a measly 65 yrds, the only receiver to do well was MVS, what 4 catches for a buck something 2 TD's ( I think), yes Matt should have stuck to the run more, but as you said our best players didn't play up to ability, still end the end it seemed like Matt didn't do his best work either.

[YoHoChecko]

The 2021 Packers are designed to be a running football team. I think Jones and Dillon regardless will be more of the offensive workhorse like the 2019 Packers were.

Yes, agreed. But I also think that Jones and Dillon will be more effective if opposing teams have the legend of Aaron Rodgers to contend with rather than the allure of messing with an inexperienced first-time starter.

Rodgers makes this team eons better simply by his known reputation and ability to throw a football; actually throwing it well and making good decisions obviously enhances that. But on defensive scheming alone, we can do more with him than without him.

And the team has successfully waited out his grieving experience long enough for there to be no other appealing options. So I expect a resolution.

[go pak go]

why your so intent on narrowing it done to this play or that player makes no sense when multiple plays and players each make mistakes,

I quit reading after this because I realized you didn't read my post.

But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.

Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decsisions.

I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.

now I think we are on the same page, little early to blame MLF of the same fails as McCarthy in big games, he was severly handicapped with Jones and Bak injured, sure we can blame him for not running more, but the Bucs scoring 14 points to finish the first and start the second half will get a Coach to over thinking himself, and worrying about playing catch up ball, losing Jones short ball ability really hurt, no real slot receiver, and no time for Rodgers to throw, I brought up Adams before, his stats are a tail of the tape 11 receptions for a measly 65 yrds, the only receiver to do well was MVS, what 4 catches for a buck something 2 TD's ( I think), yes Matt should have stuck to the run more, but as you said our best players didn't play up to ability, still end the end it seemed like Matt didn't do his best work either.

We said the same thing about McCarthy after 2014. I mean at that point, we knew we lost out on about 3 shots (2011, 2013 and 2014). But there were plenty of "excuses"

2011 - McCarthy can't catch the ball. McCarthy can't hold onto the football. His WRs and RBs need to be expected to make those basic football plays.
2013 - How can you expect to do it when Rodgers has a major injury injury?
2014 - McCarthy and the coaches told $%&# to get out of the way. McCarthy couldn't expect Rodgers to have a major knee injury that hurt him in the postseason.

There will always be those. I have doubts on MLF because Kyle S. in SF had his number completely in 2019 and MLF put his trust in #12 in the 2nd half of Tampa when he should have put his trust in #28 in the 2nd half of Tampa.

[YoHoChecko]

To answer the question of “Rodgers best chance to win”

I kind of agree with @bud fox that Rodgers can make many places he goes an instant contender. I would just say that place needs elite special teams, and to be a top 5 defense.

That said, How many of those championship level rosters actually had the things that most championship teams have?

That would be an elite qb (check, theyve had that), a reliable run game when it’s necessary, special teams that NEVER hurt the team...only help, and a what...top ten-ish defense (generally top 5)?

My question is: where did this criteria come from? You're literally just listing the things you don't like about the Packers and listing them as things championship teams have.

A reliable run game? The two Super Bowl teams last year both had middling-at-best run games.

A top 5-10 defense? You mean the Chiefs, last year's winners?

Special teams that NEVER hurt the team? You think that teams don't ever win the super bowl despite special teams mistakes?

This is totally unfounded logic. There is no magic formula for winning a Super Bowl. Elite QBs and middling QBs and good QBs have won. Elite offenses with bad defenses have won. Elite defenses with bad offenses have won. Teams have won with crap running games and teams have won because of their running games.

You can't just list the ways you specifically think the Packers have failed and then say no team can win the Super Bowl unless they have those things. That's not how evidence works.


The point we're making when we say Rodgers' best chance to win is with the Packers is that there are VERY few teams who have the ability to trade for new QBs right now.

I think Indy COULD trade for Rodgers even though they traded for Wentz--but it would definitely be difficult to pull off. (FWIW, Indy is my "if Rodgers wanted a ring, why isn't he trying to get traded to Indy" example). If they decided to go double QB trade in a single offseason, I think Indy might be among Rodgers' best chances at a ring.

Denver stinks. Like they've drafted a ton of offensive weapons lately, but they stink. They picked 10th last year for a lot more reasons than Drew Lock. A LOT more.

The Rams just took Goff dead money and Stafford salary and gave up multiple picks. They can't make the trade.

The Bucs, as you mentioned, wouldn't happen.

The Dolphins certainly are a well-coached team with a talented roster and good defense, but it's an awfully tough case to make that they are in better position to win a ring than the Packers. They COULD give up on Tua after a year to trade for Rodgers. Some could say they should. This is another team that Rodgers would prefer if he cared about winning.

The WFT is a great option. Fitzmagic is worth dumping for Rodgers, obviously, though there would be cap ramifications. But we should also mention now (even though it also applies earlier) that not even Rodgers seems to believe that he would be traded to an NFC team.

When we say "Rodgers' best chance to win a ring" we don't mean in a hypothetical, theoretcial, fantasy football league where you just place Rodgers onto a roster. We mean teams that would give up their starting QBs and significant trade capital to acquire Rodgers. We mean teams that he could actually, feasibly, start for.

The Packers have a scheme Rodgers knows, players Rodgers knows, back-to-back NFC Championship Game Appearances, a league-leading 7 players selected to the Pro Bowl last year, truly elite players at some of the most important positions: QB, LT, CB1, EDGE, WR1--universally ranked among the most important positions to have set.

The roster is top 5 in the NFL. The familiarity is huge. And the list of teams who could feasibly acquire Rodgers in real life don't include any teams with rosters as good, or with the level of elite defense you claim would work for this. Indy, Miami, and WFT are the closest. Miami and WFT are young developing teams who would only jump to contenders with Rodgers if they also took massive leaps forward in that development plan (plausible, not ruling it out).

But when you say "best chance to win a ring" would be elsewhere, your criteria is flawed, your imagining of which teams that include is unrealistic, and your consideration for the importance of familiarity and continuity is underdeveloped. Rodgers' best chance to win a ring this year is with Green Bay. The MOST wiggle room I can give on that would be to say that Green Bay and Indy are the top 2 and they might be tied. Maybe. The rest all pale.

[Yoop]

Perhaps you should look at your post on the previous page - time stamped July 10 at 16:28 - for the answer.

whoops, I glanced back but missed it, I suppose I thought it was deleted because GPG acts as though he didn't read it.

Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.

I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.

Ultimately, I think there are three main parties to blame.

1. Packers have had instances where they did not live up their end. Particularly decisions from 2013 - 2015....TT made some really poor decisions.

2. Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers were not good leaders when it mattered most. Honestly, MLF wasn't either. When the game was on the line, he was a poor leader and didn't feed AJ the ball. He took the scared way out and trusted #12 when he should have trusted #28. MM made critical errors. I would actually even elevate that to the Packers leaders in general (I'm looking at you Davante, Jones and Z). Our highest paid players always play smaller when we need them to play bigger (outside of Jaire and Clark)

3. Luck. The Packers have about as bad of luck as I can remember any team over a 20 year span.

But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.

Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decisions.

I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.

Our primary difference is you're an incredibly emotional dude and tremendous homer. Which means you will defend everyone and everything when it suits you and pull no daggers back to defend your position or chosen party of the day...even if it means if you attack somethin else you love in its place.

I mean one day you attack our talentless stooges WRs when it suits why Rodgers sucks or the next day you will defend our amazing and fast WRs when you feel someone is bashing WRs who play for the team you love. You do the same for coaches such as MM, MLF, Capers, TT, Gute. You also use really strong language like "carry the team on back, laughing stock, three stooges, etc." The language you use most definitely puts you in the group that the supporting cast, coaching staff and front office are a bunch of talentless idiots since 2010.

The only thing you will never deter from though, based on my observation of your posts for forever, is you will talk about the "idea" of saying Rodgers isn't perfect. But will never actually pin him on part of the blame.

So we basically get, "how do you expect the coaches to coach well when there is no talent" to "how do you expect the talent to come out when the coaches can't coach"...etc.

what???? when we are talking about any certain subjects comments are bound to run over into others to formulate opinions, the reason I called you a 3rd street lawyer ( which was never meant to really insult you) is that you bring those comments back up with other subjects.

the reason I defend Rodgers is that you and others tend to over blame him for the team playing poorly, just as you tended to do with the 2011 loss or any other loss for that matter, when most of those losses can be blamed on others and poor coaching decisions, I said he was not perfect and also even the very best players make mistakes, as I said the teams that make the fewest mistakes usually win, and our QB tends to make very few.

I thought when I called them the 3 stooges it was funny, my point though was that Rodgers needed veteran receiver help or a more ready to play draft pick then those groomers, I say a lot of stuff hoping to get a laugh, instead I'am ridiculed or my comment is twisted into what it was never meant to be, such as third st lawyer, why you'd be insulted only you know.

Our primary difference is you're an incredibly emotional dude and tremendous homer.

thanks, I'am emotional about the Packers, as far as Homer I'am not so sure, obviously I love this team, but I often don't agree with the way it's run.

[YoHoChecko]

the reason I defend Rodgers is that you and others tend to over blame him for the team playing poorly, just as you tended to do with the 2011 loss or any other loss for that matter, when most of those losses can be blamed on others and poor coaching decisions, I said he was not perfect and also even the very best players make mistakes, as I said the teams that make the fewest mistakes usually win, and our QB tends to make very few.

We blame Rodgers when he is to blame. And we blame other players when they are to blame. It's called objectivity.

When there are many factors that could be blamed--which is always true in a 60 minute football game but especially in close games where any number of individual changes to reality could have resulted in a win, we point out that, yes, EQSB should have caught that 2-point conversion but also yes, Rodgers missed two open TDs in the red zone in that game, and also yes, Rodgers missed throws on consecutive three-and-outs in a crucial portion of the second half. And yeah, Rodgers threw the ball away rather than making a play for the end zone on 3rd and goal from the 8 (even if he didn't make it, the team decision-making changes on 4th and goal from the 2, rather than from the 8)

It's fine to point out that there are other things. Adams dropped the TD. Jones fumbled. The coach didn't ride Dillon at all after Jones went out. Kevin King sucked all game. The FG down 8 (though I don't blame that at all; any option was a longshot option that required a defensive stop to occur. He picked one of several bad options). I personally blame Kevin King for this loss. He played like crap and he is capable of playing less like crap.

But I include Rodgers among the people who shoulder blame for losses when Rodgers deserves some of it. That you think Rodgers is good enough to get a free pass whenever he makes a mistake is a different mentality and mindset. GoPGo has been clear that he is of the mind that to win championships, your best players have to play their best at crucial moments. He thinks those who CAN play better need to play better. That has included Aaron Rodgers on several occasions, but has almost never exclusively fallen on him.

You and some others believe that players who can play better and usually do play better deserve a break. And it's the lesser players who need to either step up or be replaced in order to enable the best players. You think that the best players CAN'T step up without better players around them. I think the history of the league says differently. I think Tom Brady has proven differently, in fact, with his first run of Patriots teams that were cobbled together collections of other teams' castoffs, with fun stories like a slot receiver filling in in the secondary when they were shorthanded.

All we're saying is that when Rodgers misses throws or makes bad decisions, they are just as contributory to our losses as when other players make mistakes. Like you said, the team with the fewest mistakes tends to win. But interceptions and turnover plays aren't the only mistakes to be counted. And Rodgers had some costly mistakes in that game, as well. And so we mention them. They are part of the portrait of our loss. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Yoop]

We blame Rodgers when he is to blame. And we blame other players when they are to blame. It's called objectivity.

Rodgers makes far less mistakes in these PO losses then anyone else, thats why I defend him, and what you think is a errant throw could be the fault of the receiver, as to missing open receivers, he can't see 60 yrds wide, he can't see everyone with a split second prior to the pass rush arriving.

maybe I defend him a bit much because you guys defend 3rd rate receivers so much, I complained about the drafting of MVS< Brown and the other because Rodgers needed receiver talent not a bunch of groomers, just as a slot receiver would have helped us last year, seriously Yoho I can't for the life of me figure out why you or GPG can't see my point of view (maybe you do) if we are always building for tomorrow then it tends to leave us short handed of ready to play talent, D&D is great to a limit, but Rodgers needed more then the 3 stooges in 018

also I will never forgive Guty for taking Love and passing on one of those top 5 receivers, not ever, call me stubborn, but I know if he wanted one then he would have figured out how to get one, I don't buy that bunk he spouted about not finding a trade partner for a minute, he snubbed Rodgers, and it appeared personal, possibly has to do with the statement Rodgers is making now.

I defend Rodgers because it's probable he will be the best QB the Packers have had in my lifetime, and we should have never let the receiver group decline, 6 years of not drafting a receiver higher then round 4 is a travesty that should not have happened.
sure I too expect Rodgers back this year, agree, this is the best place for him to get a ring.

[YoHoChecko]

I complained about the drafting of MVS< Brown and the other because Rodgers needed receiver talent not a bunch of groomers, just as a slot receiver would have helped us last year, seriously Yoho I can't for the life of me figure out why you or GPG can't see my point of view (maybe you do) if we are always building for tomorrow then it tends to leave us short handed of ready to play talent, D&D is great to a limit, but Rodgers needed more then the 3 stooges in 018

I defend Rodgers because it's probable he will be the best QB the Packers have had in my lifetime, and we should have never let the receiver group decline, 6 years of not drafting a receiver higher then round 4 is a travesty that should not have happened.
sure I too expect Rodgers back this year, agree, this is the best place for him to get a ring.

I mean, that's the thing, though. We totally agree on almost all of this.

I personally LOVED EQSB going into the draft and the physical upside of both EQ and MVS are literally elite. But I, too, wanted receivers that were more ready-made those years. I have studied the top 2-3 rounds of WRs closely in every draft. And while I also LOVED TT and thought he was a great GM, I did complain about him, too. I think his inability to grasp/guestimate the market value of players left him underbidding far too often; and that even when he missed on high-level targets in free agency, he could have added low level bandaids more often. I think a team should be like 75% draft and develop and 25% other means of adding players. TT seemed to be more of a 90% D&D and 10% other means of acquisition.

But I don't want to or need to relitigate the TT years. He has not been the GM for 3.5 years now, he has not been with the team for 3 years now, and he has been dead now for several months. What happened from 2015 through 2018 is not at issue here. It just doesn't matter. I believe it is true that TT's 2015 and 2017 drafts were very poor, that replacing our secondary turned out poorly, and that MM was fired a year too late, even though I wasn't sure I would have fired him on time, myself. I also believe that Rodgers' play in that period became listless and undisciplined and less effective for reasons BEYOND those external factors, and that a true leader and competitor would not have let his frustration with the coaching staff wreck his play on the field.

But that said, NONE OF THAT MATTERS ANYMORE.

What we are saying is that Aaron Rodgers is not infallible and that he needs to play his best when we need him to. We feel this way, and have always felt this way, BECAUSE he is so great, not because we don't believe in his greatness. BECAUSE he can place a football nearly anywhere on the field that he wants to, I expect him to do so when we need it. BECAUSE he can read a defense and recall every single time he's ever seen that look before, I expect him to find the open guy and make the checkdown when it's the best option, rather than take a sack or throw it away.

It is these traits that I have seen in Brees and Brady which are mental and decision-based that I have always wanted and waited for Rodgers to fully embrace and develop. You just couldn't sack Brees. He ALWAYS got that ball out. Aaron Rodgers is the most TALENTED QB I've ever seen play football. He has ALL the ability. We are LUCKY to have him.

But he also has qualities that can still be improved. And MLF proved that by, well, improving him. Like Rodgers' play on the field LOOKS better and the results are better. Because MLF got buy in on the system and got Rodgers comfortable and shifted Rodgers' focus on each play from "make a big play but don't turn it over" to "complete the pass," which is literally what we needed.

So when we look at THIS management regime, and THIS coaching regime and THIS roster--not in the past--we say "what on earth is Rodgers complaining about?" or "the team management has given Rodgers his best shot at a ring in years" it's not a slight at Rodgers. It's recognizing his flaws and areas of improvement, understanding how vital MLF was to actually improving those things, and crediting the statistically verified top-notch OL, top-notch running game, and top 10 defense for their role in our team's success. It's not discrediting Rodgers' role in our team success. But when we talk about Rodgers "carrying a team" and base it on 2016 or earlier, it just has NO relevance to today.

Because in 2019 Rodgers played mediocre football and the team went 13-3 and lost in the NFC Championship game. And in 2020 Rodgers played MVP football and the team went 13-3 and lost in the NFCCG. hat's not to say there was no improvement. Obviously, the team was better and looked better in 2020 than 2019. The eye test can tell us that. The advanced stats can tell us that. But to deny that this team has what it takes around Rodgers only discredits the contributions of others that are absolutely, statistically and visually, undeniable. And to pretend that Rodgers' mistakes are more excusable than anyone else's mistakes simply because Rodgers often plays lights out doesn't make any sense. Davante Adams is the best WR in football and he still dropped that TD pass that cost us 4 points in a game we lost by 5 and missed a 2-point conversion. Davante Adams is great. But he should have caught that ball and it cost us.

It's not an argument about who cost us the most or the least. It's not the olympics of how we lost where we have to tally up everyone's scores and assign levels of blame. It's just that there is blame to go around. And the improvement of the team the past couple years has been undeniable, and Rodgers' improved play is EVIDENCE of that. If you are of the mind that Rodgers could have ALWAYS played this well, but just didn't because he was mad at the previous front office and coaching staff, you are making OUR point and not yours. The point is that Rodegrs has improved lately, which either means that the team around him improved, that Rodegrs always could have played this well and was simply checked out, or some combination of both. (I'm in a combination of both place, as I often am)

So if the team is getting better around him and if Rodgers' poor play in the past was a combination of the team and scheme around him and his listless uninspired play, then for the former problem, we are fixing it rapidly; and for the latter problem, he has only himself to blame, and deserves that blame. Either way, NOW is an awfully dumb time for him to be upset. Because everything is finally going well on the field.

That's why I think this has nothing to do with rings and nothing to do with the roster and nothing to do with first round WRs and everything to do with control.

[lupedafiasco]

tl;dr.

There was one person to blame for this years championship loss and that was Kevin King. No way around that.

[Yoop]

Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.

I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.

the trials and tribulations of a relationship it's all good GPG. I try to not converse with people I don't respect or like, sorry for ever giving you the impression I lack either for you I read everything you post.

[YoHoChecko]

tl;dr.

There was one person to blame for this years championship loss and that was Kevin King. No way around that.

Yeah, boredom and brevity do not coexist well in my brain.

[go pak go]

Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.

I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.

the trials and tribulations of a relationship it's all good GPG. I try to not converse with people I don't respect or like, sorry for ever giving you the impression I lack either for you I read everything you post.

Hahaha. We have a complicated relationship yoop.

We yell at each other more than anyone here the last few years, but I agree. There is an underlying friendship and respect we do have. It's why we can't stop talking to each other about our favorite subject.

We both love the Packers and talking Packers. We love it a LOT. We are both emotional homers.

That's about the extent of our similarities. But it's enough for me.

[Yoop]

I also believe that Rodgers' play in that period became listless and undisciplined and less effective for reasons BEYOND those external factors, and that a true leader and competitor would not have let his frustration with the coaching staff wreck his play on the field.

so much in your last post here that is worthy of response as usual, I'll have to come back to it when I have a bit more time, I'am painting the spare bedroom today, have a ton of company coming in 2 weeks.

but this I think is explanable quickly, I think it's normal when a person isn't pushed to improve himself complacency naturally takes over, Rodgers even commented at some point of the 017 season that we needed to make changes, and we all new that too, McCarthy had hardly adjusted any with his offensive schemes, would increase run snaps either, even though he had Jones to do so with, again that leads to a player losing interest.

as to avoiding sacks, Bree's was content with throwing the ball away, Rodgers would rather take a beating then give up on a play, I'll take that attitude every day of the week over Bree's even though the danger is higher for injury, I think we won a few games because Rodgers wouldn't give up.

to be continued, again great post.

[bud fox]

Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.

He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.

In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.

Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.

[lupedafiasco]

Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.

He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.

In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.

Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.

I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.

I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.

[bud fox]

Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.

He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.

In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.

Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.

I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.

I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.

Talking about NFC game specifically - do you agree for that game? I don't know how anyone could see it differently for the THAT game

[lupedafiasco]

Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.

He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.

In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.

Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.

I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.

I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.

Talking about NFC game specifically - do you agree for that game? I don't know how anyone could see it differently for the THAT game

I mean you can’t go by that logic. The Packers had the better RBs. Jones didn’t play well in that game sure but I’m not going to go and trade him for Fournette because Fournette had one better game than Jones in a head to head. There’s their opposition to take into consideration as well. Jones was running into probably the best DT duo and LB duo in the NFL. Fournette and Ronald Jones were running into Clark and a bunch of bums. I guess Kirksey played well. The rest of those guy in the front 7 are trash at stopping the run. We knew this going in. So no &%$@ they outperformed our backs.

[Drj820]

I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.

I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.

Talking about NFC game specifically - do you agree for that game? I don't know how anyone could see it differently for the THAT game

I mean you can’t go by that logic. The Packers had the better RBs. Jones didn’t play well in that game sure but I’m not going to go and trade him for Fournette because Fournette had one better game than Jones in a head to head. There’s their opposition to take into consideration as well. Jones was running into probably the best DT duo and LB duo in the NFL. Fournette and Ronald Jones were running into Clark and a bunch of bums. I guess Kirksey played well. The rest of those guy in the front 7 are trash at stopping the run. We knew this going in. So no &%$@ they outperformed our backs.

The problem was we didn’t help one of the struggling OTs and leave the other alone, we hardly helped either of them. I remember play after playing wondering why Marcedes was going out for a pass instead of staying in and pass blocking. We went full insanity mode and did the same exact thing drive after drive from late 3rd quarter on, just hoping it would work better the next time. There was plenty to do to help slow the pass rush, we declined all options. Those options included bring in more pass blockers on the line (Brady’s Patriot teams were notorious for having like 7 guys blocking on the line), having a pass catching TE chip a DE before he goes out for a pass, throw very short passes (hard to do when jones is out of game and we didn’t have a real slot guy), or just do what was working...run the ball.