Rodgers wants out

[Yoop]

I mean the offense sputtered in 2015. The offense sputtered in 2016 until Jared Cook came back for that final run. The offense honestly sputtered in 2017 (I remember that Bengals game...yikes). The offense sputtered in 2018, but it finally was able to come full reality because we didn't have bail out hail mary plays (hello 2015 and 2016) and didn't have Rodgers out for 12 games with giant comebacks to hide that the Packers were struggling (hello 2017).

The 2016 offense was quite talented and had safety blankets with Nelson and Rodgers really liked Cook in December and January. So our 3rd and long bailout plays were still a thing with the "come back to Aaron on the Back shoulder throw" and move the chains.

I don't think Rodgers intentionally stunk in 2018 to get a coach fired, but instead our offense was figured out in 2015 and neither Rodgers or McCoach changed their play designs/play style.

None of that change happened until 2020.

why now would it be up to Rodgers to reinvent the offense? right, it was known way back in 015 that minus the talent at wr McCarthy's iso vertical routes didn't have the previous success, changes where needed, took 4 years for that to convince the people in charge to finally do something.

[go pak go]

Something I find off is that if Rodgers was really so against Mcarthy and his schemes, why did he insist on keeping so much of them in 2019? Remember the whole debate on whether they would run Rodgers O or Lafleurs O and they seemed to create a compromise week to week?

(side note, Rodgers insistence on keeping some of Mcarthys stuff and not going full Lafleur conversion is probably a reason Love got drafted...Any coach wants to implement their stuff and have a QB that will run it)

But doesnt that just show that although there was plenty of stuff Rodgers may not have liked, it wasnt all hate. He couldnt let some of it go, for a while, or until someone was behind them that would run exactly what Lafleur wants to run.

I agree with you. And I think a lot of this Rodgers hates MM stuff is more fan generated than reality.

[Yoop]

Words matter Yoop. When you say things like, "I believe Rodgers purposely played poorly to get McCarthy fired.

I don't remember saying it quite this way, I do remember saying he purposely wouldn't use some of the plays McCarthy had called, and wouldn't throw to the check downs to get McCarthy fired, which is how it appeared.

also think he liked the big chunk pass routes, likes being able to score with the least amount of plays, and I think thats what he wanted add into what Lafluer brought, as we saw last year it's possible to do both, in fact Lafluers schemes force defenses to play heavy box and single high coverage which makes the deeper routes easier

[Yoop]

Something I find off is that if Rodgers was really so against Mcarthy and his schemes, why did he insist on keeping so much of them in 2019? Remember the whole debate on whether they would run Rodgers O or Lafleurs O and they seemed to create a compromise week to week?

(side note, Rodgers insistence on keeping some of Mcarthys stuff and not going full Lafleur conversion is probably a reason Love got drafted...Any coach wants to implement their stuff and have a QB that will run it)

But doesnt that just show that although there was plenty of stuff Rodgers may not have liked, it wasnt all hate. He couldnt let some of it go, for a while, or until someone was behind them that would run exactly what Lafleur wants to run.

I agree with you. And I think a lot of this Rodgers hates MM stuff is more fan generated than reality.

I suppose you'll lay that on me too, actually, I don't remember anyone actually saying that either, being upset, or not agreeing with someone, doesn't translate to HATE, thats another internet thing people get wrong.

[Drj820]

Something I find off is that if Rodgers was really so against Mcarthy and his schemes, why did he insist on keeping so much of them in 2019? Remember the whole debate on whether they would run Rodgers O or Lafleurs O and they seemed to create a compromise week to week?

(side note, Rodgers insistence on keeping some of Mcarthys stuff and not going full Lafleur conversion is probably a reason Love got drafted...Any coach wants to implement their stuff and have a QB that will run it)

But doesnt that just show that although there was plenty of stuff Rodgers may not have liked, it wasnt all hate. He couldnt let some of it go, for a while, or until someone was behind them that would run exactly what Lafleur wants to run.

I agree with you. And I think a lot of this Rodgers hates MM stuff is more fan generated than reality.

Yeah, the relationship certainly may have gotten icy at the very end, but overall even when people were accusing Rodgers of hating MM, he still publically defended him and their relationship alot with his words. Body language may have spoke differently, but he only threw MM under the bus at the very end.

[salmar80]

I remember MM trying to adapt and tweak his scheme a bit during the decline. Implementing more pre-snap motions was one measure, and there were lesser tweaks that got quickly countered. But a totally new scheme was something he just didn't have in him.

I personally think AR didn't need to do anything to get him fired, MM's calcification, decline in WR corps, time and opponents figuring him out did it for him.

It's sorta ironic that a lot of the same people who are blaming the franchise for being too slow to move on from MM and TT are now blaming 'em for prepping to move on from AR too early. Tough to get those timings spot on, eh...

[lupedafiasco]

Something I find off is that if Rodgers was really so against Mcarthy and his schemes, why did he insist on keeping so much of them in 2019? Remember the whole debate on whether they would run Rodgers O or Lafleurs O and they seemed to create a compromise week to week?

(side note, Rodgers insistence on keeping some of Mcarthys stuff and not going full Lafleur conversion is probably a reason Love got drafted...Any coach wants to implement their stuff and have a QB that will run it)

But doesnt that just show that although there was plenty of stuff Rodgers may not have liked, it wasnt all hate. He couldnt let some of it go, for a while, or until someone was behind them that would run exactly what Lafleur wants to run.

I agree with you. And I think a lot of this Rodgers hates MM stuff is more fan generated than reality.

I think his disdain for MM was genuine. If it wasnt the case he doesnt call out the flow of the playcalling after shutting out the Bills that season.

Rodgers wanted to keep some of the MM stuff because familiarity and success. No one learns a new system overnight. Especially when you dont have the talent around you to bail you out like say a TB12 did in TB. MMs offense was also successful for a very long time but a lot of what he did was stale and predictable. What I dont know but suspect is Rodgers wanted to get the ball to where he had talent at which was really just Adams or if someone in particular was hot that day. I think MM wasnt doing that and it was ticking off Rodgers but Im speculating there.

It takes time to implement a scheme and for players to buy in. We saw that last season. Which is also why it was so stupid for the team to give up on its HOF QB after just one season in it.

[Drj820]

I remember some of the discussions about it, but cannot remember the outcome. Did MM want say in the personnel and it was denied? Or did he have some input? Or did he not desire for any input?

Because sure the schemes got figured out, but his problem with winning directly correlates with the talent on the roster. It took a nose dive in the years leading up to TTs dismissal, and the record showed that. Very possible his schemes always sucked, we just had the talent to make anything work...and then when the talent declined, the scheme got exposed. As well as, MM hardly had a defense to compensate for anything less than stellar Offense.

Injuries to AR, Tired schemes, Decline in talent, no wonder we needed to clean house. It makes sense.

[Acrobat]

I remember some of the discussions about it, but cannot remember the outcome. Did MM want say in the personnel and it was denied? Or did he have some input? Or did he not desire for any input?

Because sure the schemes got figured out, but his problem with winning directly correlates with the talent on the roster. It took a nose dive in the years leading up to TTs dismissal, and the record showed that. Very possible his schemes always sucked, we just had the talent to make anything work...and then when the talent declined, the scheme got exposed. As well as, MM hardly had a defense to compensate for anything less than stellar Offense.

Injuries to AR, Tired schemes, Decline in talent, no wonder we needed to clean house. It makes sense.

I always thought it was always his inability to adapt. I'm sure so many defenses studied the heck out of the Packers' scheme after the 2011 season, and then again after the 2014 season. So I think it was a bit of a blend of tired scheme, personnel decisions, and use of talent. Like the fact that Aaron Jones barely saw the ball in 2017-2018 was mind boggling, though I guess we can be thankful for the lack of wear and tear now.

[Drj820]

I remember some of the discussions about it, but cannot remember the outcome. Did MM want say in the personnel and it was denied? Or did he have some input? Or did he not desire for any input?

Because sure the schemes got figured out, but his problem with winning directly correlates with the talent on the roster. It took a nose dive in the years leading up to TTs dismissal, and the record showed that. Very possible his schemes always sucked, we just had the talent to make anything work...and then when the talent declined, the scheme got exposed. As well as, MM hardly had a defense to compensate for anything less than stellar Offense.

Injuries to AR, Tired schemes, Decline in talent, no wonder we needed to clean house. It makes sense.

I always thought it was always his inability to adapt. I'm sure so many defenses studied the heck out of the Packers' scheme after the 2011 season, and then again after the 2014 season. So I think it was a bit of a blend of tired scheme, personnel decisions, and use of talent. Like the fact that Aaron Jones barely saw the ball in 2017-2018 was mind boggling, though I guess we can be thankful for the lack of wear and tear now.

Good point. MM deserved to get fired for what he did to aaron jones for that reason alone. I will always remember almost throwing up when he degraded Jones about how running back is more than about running the ball. There are 3 parts to it etc etc (run, pass, block). I was like, ya you idiot but when one can run really really well, you let him do that and compensate/adjust to make up for his weaknesses.

Plus i will never believe that Jones couldnt catch, MM just hated the guy.

[go pak go]

I mean the biggest thing is McCoach was with GB for 13 seasons and his system and message got stale.

13 years is a really long time and his time was over. I guess that's how I looked at it at the time and how I look at it now.

Looking back, the Packers should have moved on earlier (say 2016), but it's hard to do that when you just went to the NFC Title game. (even though the Packers were not an NFC Title Game caliber team)

[Acrobat]

I remember some of the discussions about it, but cannot remember the outcome. Did MM want say in the personnel and it was denied? Or did he have some input? Or did he not desire for any input?

Because sure the schemes got figured out, but his problem with winning directly correlates with the talent on the roster. It took a nose dive in the years leading up to TTs dismissal, and the record showed that. Very possible his schemes always sucked, we just had the talent to make anything work...and then when the talent declined, the scheme got exposed. As well as, MM hardly had a defense to compensate for anything less than stellar Offense.

Injuries to AR, Tired schemes, Decline in talent, no wonder we needed to clean house. It makes sense.

I always thought it was always his inability to adapt. I'm sure so many defenses studied the heck out of the Packers' scheme after the 2011 season, and then again after the 2014 season. So I think it was a bit of a blend of tired scheme, personnel decisions, and use of talent. Like the fact that Aaron Jones barely saw the ball in 2017-2018 was mind boggling, though I guess we can be thankful for the lack of wear and tear now.

Good point. MM deserved to get fired for what he did to aaron jones for that reason alone. I will always remember almost throwing up when he degraded Jones about how running back is more than about running the ball. There are 3 parts to it etc etc (run, pass, block). I was like, ya you idiot but when one can run really really well, you let him do that and compensate/adjust to make up for his weaknesses.

Plus i will never believe that Jones couldnt catch, MM just hated the guy.

Yeah and what was even more mind boggling is that MM should have known by then that after defenses figured his offense out, the best way to overcome it was a running game that opposing defenses had to respect. The 2014 resurgence wasn't by accident, it was because Lacy was a stud that year which opened so many possibilities in the passing game.

[Yoop]

as I said before, go back and rewatch the two games we lost in 2011, our passing game failed because we had nothing else on offense to compliment the deep passing, we couldn't run against KC and the Giants, and our defense couldn't slow down either offense, KC exposed our weakness, and NY copied them.

sure McCarthy's schemes where well known, but our receivers declined, or those same schemes would have kept producing, as long as we ran better, and played better on defense, imo it wasn't as much a scheme issue as it was lack of talent.

we saw that on defense, we fired Capers, retooled the defense with Talent, and walla the defense improved, last year it nose dived, so it wasn't as much coaching as it was lack of talent, same when we fired Bob Sanders, Ted Brought in a bunch of Talent for his New DC, and the defense was instantly better, yes coaches matter, however even the best coaches need quality talent to be successful.

McCarthy needed to make changes because he no longer had receivers required to make his schemes work, or Ted needed to do more then just drafting Adams, or as Rodgers mentioned we needed to improve the run game, as has been said, McCarthy allowed a very good RB sit on the bench because he didn't trust him to pick up a blitzer, players had to know every facet of there positional responsibility's or they didn't play, Cobb and every receiver dealt with that, people blamed Rodgers when in reality it was the overly cautious McCarthy, there is some good to that, mistakes can rob ya of victory same as poor play, but imho Mac over did it, you watch how quick Lafluer has Amari Rodgers up to full throttle, lis, and you can hold me to it, Rodgers will have the 2nd most receptions, and I say that based on scheme fit, he's perfect for what Matt does.

[dsr]

I just don’t see him being an intentional bum when he comes back just bc of how much he has to lose doing that. Firstly, his own legacy is at stake. 4 MVPs put him in the rarest of air, second: the team has a chance to be very good, if he’s on the field , why would he not sieze that opportunity, he knows what it would mean for his legacy. Third: He claims to love the guys in the locker room like Adams and Bahk, I doubt he’d sabotage their year, or they would allow him too. Finally, he claims he has no beef with the coach, why would he sabotage the good young coach? I think if he comes back, he’s all the way back...and his goal will be to win another MVP and make Gute look dumb as he tries to trade him.

All true.

And fifthly, if he has another MVP season he's more likely to get what he wants with a new club than if he has a season that looks like a QB in decline.

[TheSkeptic]

I just don’t see him being an intentional bum when he comes back just bc of how much he has to lose doing that. Firstly, his own legacy is at stake. 4 MVPs put him in the rarest of air, second: the team has a chance to be very good, if he’s on the field , why would he not sieze that opportunity, he knows what it would mean for his legacy. Third: He claims to love the guys in the locker room like Adams and Bahk, I doubt he’d sabotage their year, or they would allow him too. Finally, he claims he has no beef with the coach, why would he sabotage the good young coach? I think if he comes back, he’s all the way back...and his goal will be to win another MVP and make Gute look dumb as he tries to trade him.

All true.

And fifthly, if he has another MVP season he's more likely to get what he wants with a new club than if he has a season that looks like a QB in decline.

It is really tough to stay motivated when a person is not happy. Its not just for 3 hours on game day, it is watching film and not drifting off. It is offseason hours at the gym and keeping the arm in shape. Don't be surprised if AR cannot handle a normal number of passes in the preseason if he comes back, or gets a sore arm. Don't be surprised if he throws an easy interception to an opposing CB because he was not at 100% concentration on the previous Wednesday. He could use this as extra motivation and have a great year. Or he could be a give a &%$@ aging QB with a severe concentration problem.

It is pretty obvious that AR is not happy with playing in GB. He has a new lady as an added distraction. It could go either way.

[Acrobat]

[Labrev]

Maybe he forgot to cancel automatic billing! Or just more trollan...

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Ah, the joys of small town middle America.

Where everyone's nose is in your &%$@.

[Yoop]

Ah, the joys of small town middle America.

Where everyone's nose is in your &%$@.

[Pugger]

He really didn't have a lot of options. It was either sit out, retire or return for another season. We shall see...