Rodgers wants out

[paco]

Jones continuing to say he expects him to be back. But a question still remains. Does he have that idea because Rodgers said he probably would? Or is it because he believes the Packers will end up doing what Rodgers wants to get him to come back? The wait continues.

[YoHoChecko]

McCarthy did it with Matt Flynn. The problem is not that coaches can't coach anymore but rather the CBA prevents coaches from coaching these QB's anymore to the level and with the amount of time needed. You absolutely never know, but I highly doubt that Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers if he was drafted post-2011. That is also where this notion that if you draft a QB they have to play must stop. Love needs all the time possible to get ready. All these guys do. None of them are getting it. For every Justin Herbert that is thrown into the fire and has some early success there is a Mitch Trubisky on the other side. Learning on the job is great, in theory, but it is destroying a lot of these really, really talented prospects.

I couldn't give you two lombardi reacts, so I had to give you a lombardi emoji

[go pak go]

Ron Wolf totally spoiled us and got us all thinking that you could take a 4th rounder (Aaron Brooks), a 5th rounder (Mark Brunell), 6th rounder (Matt Hasselbeck), coach 'em up with the right staff, and they'll develop into starting-quality trade assets. I believed it myself, strongly, for a long time. That kind of success story is few and far between, though.

If you look around the league, starters that arise from outside of the first round are the exception. Off the top of my head, I can think of Tom Brady (6th round), Dak Prescott (4th round), Russell Wilson (3rd round), Jimmy G (2nd round--though soon to be replaced by a 1st), Jalen Hurts (2nd round)... not sure who to count for Houston, but I guess Tyrod Taylor (6th round)

...so that's 6 out of 32? If I missed one or two, we're still at least at 75-80% first rounders.

see I think ya have as good a chance in the 2nd and later as ya do taking one later then the first couple in round one, the problem is imo that teams wont devote the time or money for a top notch QB Guru to coach up these later round players, and Holmgren and staff where very good at it.

McCarthy did it with Matt Flynn. The problem is not that coaches can't coach anymore but rather the CBA prevents coaches from coaching these QB's anymore to the level and with the amount of time needed. You absolutely never know, but I highly doubt that Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers if he was drafted post-2011. That is also where this notion that if you draft a QB they have to play must stop. Love needs all the time possible to get ready. All these guys do. None of them are getting it. For every Justin Herbert that is thrown into the fire and has some early success there is a Mitch Trubisky on the other side. Learning on the job is great, in theory, but it is destroying a lot of these really, really talented prospects.

Absolutely THIS.

If there is one beef I have with the CBA, it is that the players can't be with the team or coaches enough. MM prided himself in his QB school and you could see the dividends it produced. I mean how many times we hear McCoach talk about footwork? Like that's all they did in the spring.


We all know the 2005 Aaron Rodgers story and just how terrible he was. We then saw the progression of 2006 and especially 2007 and I can't help but link that with MM's QB school. There is just no time to develop QBs anymore. It's not that teams don't emphasize it. It's that the vets don't want to be around team facilities and want to train on their own. The consequence is, especially young QBs, can't develop and grow by being around veteran QBs and coaching staffs.

[Drj820]

The Green Bay Packers and the Milwaukee Bucks have been in very similar situations the last couple of years. That is tremendous regular season success, and massive playoff disappointments.

The Bucks cut some fat, got rid of some good players that weren’t good enough (guys like Dean Lowry and Kevin King) and used that money to acquire some tough minded defensive specialists who could help the team (pj Tucker, Jrue Holiday). The Bucks star had a chance to leave, but signed up to come back and try again. He succeeded and now currently stands as the king of Wisconsin.

Rodgers, in the same situation as the king of Wisconsin was last year, experienced a playoff defeat and instead of rallying the troops to give it another go, is quitting. Taking his ball and going home.

Exact situations...one resigns, gets to work, puts the team first and wins the title...one threatens to never come back.

[NCF]

It's that the vets don't want to be around team facilities and want to train on their own. The consequence is, especially young QBs, can't develop and grow by being around veteran QBs and coaching staffs.

I think it is also partially the vets don't want the young guys to have the time to develop and take their jobs. To me, the solution is simple, offseason time should be largely voluntary, but absolutely not required. If the young guys want the coaching they should have access to it. I know the issue became the vets felt pressured to be there, almost as if it were mandatory. I don't know how to solve that, but still, don't screw the young guys because of it.

[Yoop]

see I think ya have as good a chance in the 2nd and later as ya do taking one later then the first couple in round one, the problem is imo that teams wont devote the time or money for a top notch QB Guru to coach up these later round players, and Holmgren and staff where very good at it.

I agree that NFL teams don't devote the proper resources and patience to developing QBs, but also that (just like the Packers staff in the 90s), it's hard to hold onto those guys. That's why the Kyle Shanahan staff has been scattered throughout the league, including to us.

sorry, I'am not following your thought here, hold on to who, the Gurus or the revolving door of coached up QB's? Ron makes it clear he wasn't interesting in keeping these QB's, rather to coach em up, trade them, and move on to the next one, remember when we had the conversation about how many QB's to carry on the roster? some said no more then two, now obviously Ron disagreed and we always carried 3 when he was GM.

basically this doesn't exactly jive with Guty's approach, except that he was sold on Love ( so he says) however Rodgers, even with all you've said about his perceived decline did not look washed up and still had 4 years remaining on his contract, I think Rons choice would have been to take a 2nd round or later QB in 018, 019, 020 rather then put all hopes in a late 1st round QB, again the bust rates are near identical, Ron alludes to this type approach, and I tend to agree.

[YoHoChecko]

I mean the gurus.

Like Holmgren's staff was great at it. Holgren left, Reid left, Mariucci left, Gruden left...

Jay Gruden's staff was great at it. Kyle Shanahan left, Sean McVay left, MLF left, the kid in Cincy left.

Once your coaching staff is labeled as expert in QB development, everyone even remotely attached to the process starts getting poached.

[Drj820]

There is still time to develop QBs. It happens all the time. All the guys have their own personal QB trainers/coaches anyways and the guys start getting ready for the Pros when they enter college. The college and the pro game used to not be such a seamless transition.

[NCF]

Jay Gruden's staff was great at it. Kyle Shanahan left, Sean McVay left, MLF left, the kid in Cincy left.

Jay Gruden was the replacement in Washington and comes from that Cincinnati tree. Mike Shanahan was in Washington with the talented staff. I guess Gruden was with his brother in Tampa, but I think this new wave of talent actually comes from Kyle Shanahan, not the old guard of Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, and even an Andy Reid.

[NCF]

There is still time to develop QBs. It happens all the time. All the guys have their own personal QB trainers/coaches anyways and the guys start getting ready for the Pros when they enter college. The college and the pro game used to not be such a seamless transition.

This is a fair point and there have been plenty of videos of Jordan Love working with his personal team, but I still, obviously, maintain it would be more valuable to work with his own coaches and the team.

[YoHoChecko]

Jay Gruden's staff was great at it. Kyle Shanahan left, Sean McVay left, MLF left, the kid in Cincy left.

Jay Gruden was the replacement in Washington and comes from that Cincinnati tree. Mike Shanahan was in Washington with the talented staff. I guess Gruden was with his brother in Tampa, but I think this new wave of talent actually comes from Kyle Shanahan, not the old guard of Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, and even an Andy Reid.

I agree it comes from Kyle Shanahan; but it always cracks me up that most of the best young head coaches in the league were on the same staff beneath a HC who actually is the least of them.

[lupedafiasco]

I thought after June 1st if Rodgers was still on the team that he would play for us this season. He will just be unhappy. Ive never felt he wouldnt play somewhere this season. I would be shocked if he sits out and skips out on good money.

[NCF]

I thought after June 1st if Rodgers was still on the team that he would play for us this season. He will just be unhappy. Ive never felt he wouldnt play somewhere this season. I would be shocked if he sits out and skips out on good money.

That seems to be consensus, but for how much later will he continue to pout? Will he be back next week or drag this out until September?

[Yoop]

Ron Wolf totally spoiled us and got us all thinking that you could take a 4th rounder (Aaron Brooks), a 5th rounder (Mark Brunell), 6th rounder (Matt Hasselbeck), coach 'em up with the right staff, and they'll develop into starting-quality trade assets. I believed it myself, strongly, for a long time. That kind of success story is few and far between, though.

If you look around the league, starters that arise from outside of the first round are the exception. Off the top of my head, I can think of Tom Brady (6th round), Dak Prescott (4th round), Russell Wilson (3rd round), Jimmy G (2nd round--though soon to be replaced by a 1st), Jalen Hurts (2nd round)... not sure who to count for Houston, but I guess Tyrod Taylor (6th round)

...so that's 6 out of 32? If I missed one or two, we're still at least at 75-80% first rounders.

see I think ya have as good a chance in the 2nd and later as ya do taking one later then the first couple in round one, the problem is imo that teams wont devote the time or money for a top notch QB Guru to coach up these later round players, and Holmgren and staff where very good at it.

McCarthy did it with Matt Flynn. The problem is not that coaches can't coach anymore but rather the CBA prevents coaches from coaching these QB's anymore to the level and with the amount of time needed. You absolutely never know, but I highly doubt that Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers if he was drafted post-2011. That is also where this notion that if you draft a QB they have to play must stop. Love needs all the time possible to get ready. All these guys do. None of them are getting it. For every Justin Herbert that is thrown into the fire and has some early success there is a Mitch Trubisky on the other side. Learning on the job is great, in theory, but it is destroying a lot of these really, really talented prospects.

the CBA doesn't limit how many QB's a team can carry, and they can receive traing the whole season, it's the owners who limit training and penalize players if they get hurt practicing among themselves, I remember Rodgers first couple seasons practicing with Jennings and Driver at his HS field in Cali.

teams chose to only carry 2 QB's so that 3rd spot could go to some roster filler for ST's we did it right here Till Rodgers was hurt and we didn't have a qualified backup and scrambled bringing in street FA's, it was insane and we had McCarthy, a known QB coach.
everyone blames the union, imo it's a owner issue to.

[NCF]

and they can receive traing the whole season

They literally cannot. Your point about roster volume is fair, but the CBA absolute denies these guys from being in team facilities during the offseason, at least compared to the way it used to be.

[Yoop]

and they can receive traing the whole season

They literally cannot. Your point about roster volume is fair, but the CBA absolute denies these guys from being in team facilities during the offseason, at least compared to the way it used to be.

the union can not force players not to train, what they can do is stop it from being manditory, which they have done.

again this goes right back to ownership saying if you hurt yourself outside of team facility's or non sanctioned practice we can void your contract, both sides seem at fault to me.

[go pak go]

see I think ya have as good a chance in the 2nd and later as ya do taking one later then the first couple in round one, the problem is imo that teams wont devote the time or money for a top notch QB Guru to coach up these later round players, and Holmgren and staff where very good at it.

McCarthy did it with Matt Flynn. The problem is not that coaches can't coach anymore but rather the CBA prevents coaches from coaching these QB's anymore to the level and with the amount of time needed. You absolutely never know, but I highly doubt that Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers if he was drafted post-2011. That is also where this notion that if you draft a QB they have to play must stop. Love needs all the time possible to get ready. All these guys do. None of them are getting it. For every Justin Herbert that is thrown into the fire and has some early success there is a Mitch Trubisky on the other side. Learning on the job is great, in theory, but it is destroying a lot of these really, really talented prospects.

the CBA doesn't limit how many QB's a team can carry, and they can receive traing the whole season, it's the owners who limit training and penalize players if they get hurt practicing among themselves, I remember Rodgers first couple seasons practicing with Jennings and Driver at his HS field in Cali.

This whole paragraph is incorrect.

Players do train with each other all the time still in the offseason. There is actual footage of EQSB and Jordan Love training together on a high school field this past offseason. The owners do not limit training in the offseason at all. They don't protect players if they get hurt outside of team facilities, but it was the players who specifically negotiated to reduce the offseason and not allow players at team facilities.

[go pak go]

and they can receive traing the whole season

They literally cannot. Your point about roster volume is fair, but the CBA absolute denies these guys from being in team facilities during the offseason, at least compared to the way it used to be.

the union can not force players not to train, what they can do is stop it from being manditory, which they have done.

again this goes right back to ownership saying if you hurt yourself outside of team facility's or non sanctioned practice we can void your contract, both sides seem at fault to me.

I mean I don't see what's so wrong about that. If a player is going to train, I would want them be trained at my facilities under my employee's supervision. The risk grows exponentially when you have 90 players under contract training and do whatever they want.

[Pugger]

Tuesday can't come soon enough so we will find out what AR's planning on doing this year.

[Yoop]

They literally cannot. Your point about roster volume is fair, but the CBA absolute denies these guys from being in team facilities during the offseason, at least compared to the way it used to be.

the union can not force players not to train, what they can do is stop it from being manditory, which they have done.

again this goes right back to ownership saying if you hurt yourself outside of team facility's or non sanctioned practice we can void your contract, both sides seem at fault to me.

I mean I don't see what's so wrong about that. If a player is going to train, I would want them be trained at my facilities under my employee's supervision. The risk grows exponentially when you have 90 players under contract training and do whatever they want.

your bouncing here, if the team will void there contract then if Love or EQ where hurt the team can cut and void those contracts, what incentive do players have to work out? that is a team issue that goes against a players ability to improve

and a team if so desires can carry 53 QB's, seriously, no team should ever carry less then 3.

Yoho: the college ranks are loaded with quality QB coaches, instead of allowing other teams to pilfer a excellent QB coach, simply give them something that will keep them around till there understudy is ready to take over, this sounds like a pay roll issue, the league is always short of QB talent and imo it's because they try and skimp on assistant coaches.