Rodgers wants out

[Pckfn23]

[Captain_Ben]

I hope Love has a kick ass training camp.

[Captain_Ben]

see I think ya have as good a chance in the 2nd and later as ya do taking one later then the first couple in round one, the problem is imo that teams wont devote the time or money for a top notch QB Guru to coach up these later round players, and Holmgren and staff where very good at it.

McCarthy did it with Matt Flynn. The problem is not that coaches can't coach anymore but rather the CBA prevents coaches from coaching these QB's anymore to the level and with the amount of time needed. You absolutely never know, but I highly doubt that Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers if he was drafted post-2011. That is also where this notion that if you draft a QB they have to play must stop. Love needs all the time possible to get ready. All these guys do. None of them are getting it. For every Justin Herbert that is thrown into the fire and has some early success there is a Mitch Trubisky on the other side. Learning on the job is great, in theory, but it is destroying a lot of these really, really talented prospects.

Absolutely THIS.

If there is one beef I have with the CBA, it is that the players can't be with the team or coaches enough. MM prided himself in his QB school and you could see the dividends it produced. I mean how many times we hear McCoach talk about footwork? Like that's all they did in the spring.


We all know the 2005 Aaron Rodgers story and just how terrible he was. We then saw the progression of 2006 and especially 2007 and I can't help but link that with MM's QB school. There is just no time to develop QBs anymore. It's not that teams don't emphasize it. It's that the vets don't want to be around team facilities and want to train on their own. The consequence is, especially young QBs, can't develop and grow by being around veteran QBs and coaching staffs.

I remember much hype around MM and his "great" QB school. Not saying it wasn't great but I think the jury never really came to a decision on that. Rodgers was never terrible. He was raw af at one point, but never terrible per se.

Aside from Rodgers and Flynn, who really saw tangible improvement that proved material to the team's success?

[Yoop]

We all know the 2005 Aaron Rodgers story and just how terrible he was. We then saw the progression of 2006 and especially 2007 and I can't help but link that with MM's QB school. There is just no time to develop QBs anymore. It's not that teams don't emphasize it. It's that the vets don't want to be around team facilities and want to train on their own. The consequence is, especially young QBs, can't develop and grow by being around veteran QBs and coaching staffs.

you've said Rodgers was terrible as a rookie and I disagree, watching this vid of 2005 PS games will show, you'll see a player that processes quickly, and for the most part makes the right decisions, ( run or pass) and throws a pretty accurate ball, Rodgers would have been ready to start in 05 had we not had Favre.

Rodgers was just as ready to play back then as most that do end up starting as rookies now, I'am hearing a concerted effort by you and others to compare Love as a rookie to Rodgers as a rookie, and I think your selling Rodgers short, to somehow elevate LOve

[Crazylegs Starks]

Aside from Rodgers and Flynn, who really saw tangible improvement that proved material to the team's success?

No one comes to mind.

Graham Harrell improved but that's not saying much, and the one time he played, he fumbled the game away.

Brett Hundley improved his footwork but it didn't translate to wins.

Tolzein and Kizer might have actually gotten worse.

[go pak go]

McCarthy did it with Matt Flynn. The problem is not that coaches can't coach anymore but rather the CBA prevents coaches from coaching these QB's anymore to the level and with the amount of time needed. You absolutely never know, but I highly doubt that Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers if he was drafted post-2011. That is also where this notion that if you draft a QB they have to play must stop. Love needs all the time possible to get ready. All these guys do. None of them are getting it. For every Justin Herbert that is thrown into the fire and has some early success there is a Mitch Trubisky on the other side. Learning on the job is great, in theory, but it is destroying a lot of these really, really talented prospects.

Absolutely THIS.

If there is one beef I have with the CBA, it is that the players can't be with the team or coaches enough. MM prided himself in his QB school and you could see the dividends it produced. I mean how many times we hear McCoach talk about footwork? Like that's all they did in the spring.


We all know the 2005 Aaron Rodgers story and just how terrible he was. We then saw the progression of 2006 and especially 2007 and I can't help but link that with MM's QB school. There is just no time to develop QBs anymore. It's not that teams don't emphasize it. It's that the vets don't want to be around team facilities and want to train on their own. The consequence is, especially young QBs, can't develop and grow by being around veteran QBs and coaching staffs.

I remember much hype around MM and his "great" QB school. Not saying it wasn't great but I think the jury never really came to a decision on that. Rodgers was never terrible. He was raw af at one point, but never terrible per se.

Aside from Rodgers and Flynn, who really saw tangible improvement that proved material to the team's success?

The QB school had to go away after the 2010 season because of the new CBA. MM talked about how he lamented not being able to have the in depth QB school under the bargaining agreement like he had from 2006 - 2010.

MM revitalized Favre's career. Developed Rodgers into an all time greatest QB and developed Matt Flynn from a 7t rounder into a top end backup/low level starter.

Brian Brohm was his miss during that stretch. But I would say in that span when the QB existed, it was a pretty darned good ride.

[go pak go]

I honestly have no idea how you can watch that 2005 tape, where i think he scored on one drive in 4 games? and be like,

"oh yeah. that's gonna be a player"

That is using the luxury of hindsight to the extreme.

[Pckfn23]

I honestly have no idea how you can watch that 2005 tape, where i think he scored on one drive in 4 games? and be like,

"oh yeah. that's gonna be a player"

I have NO idea how one looks at that objectively and is convinced that is a Hall of Famer player... That was a clinic of bad decisions and poor accuracy, it just was.

[Yoop]

I honestly have no idea how you can watch that 2005 tape, where i think he scored on one drive in 4 games? and be like,

"oh yeah. that's gonna be a player"

I have NO idea how one looks at that objectively and is convinced that is a Hall of Famer player... That was a clinic of bad decisions and poor accuracy, it just was.

I said ready to start and also saw a bunch of drops in that video, at least be a ready to play backup, he improved with each game.

[go pak go]

I honestly have no idea how you can watch that 2005 tape, where i think he scored on one drive in 4 games? and be like,

"oh yeah. that's gonna be a player"

I have NO idea how one looks at that objectively and is convinced that is a Hall of Famer player... That was a clinic of bad decisions and poor accuracy, it just was.

I said ready to start and also saw a bunch of drops in that video.

If that tape is "ready to start" material, I think Jordan Love no matter how he plays is going to blow your socks off.

[go pak go]

If you compare Rodgers rookie preseason to Brett Hundley's rookie season tape....tell me which one you believe will end up the HOFer.

Let's just say one looked more "pro ready" than the other.

[Pckfn23]

I honestly have no idea how you can watch that 2005 tape, where i think he scored on one drive in 4 games? and be like,

"oh yeah. that's gonna be a player"

I have NO idea how one looks at that objectively and is convinced that is a Hall of Famer player... That was a clinic of bad decisions and poor accuracy, it just was.

I said ready to start and also saw a bunch of drops in that video.

That didn't even remotely look like ready to start in the NFL... Regardless of the drops.

[Captain_Ben]

Absolutely THIS.

If there is one beef I have with the CBA, it is that the players can't be with the team or coaches enough. MM prided himself in his QB school and you could see the dividends it produced. I mean how many times we hear McCoach talk about footwork? Like that's all they did in the spring.


We all know the 2005 Aaron Rodgers story and just how terrible he was. We then saw the progression of 2006 and especially 2007 and I can't help but link that with MM's QB school. There is just no time to develop QBs anymore. It's not that teams don't emphasize it. It's that the vets don't want to be around team facilities and want to train on their own. The consequence is, especially young QBs, can't develop and grow by being around veteran QBs and coaching staffs.

I remember much hype around MM and his "great" QB school. Not saying it wasn't great but I think the jury never really came to a decision on that. Rodgers was never terrible. He was raw af at one point, but never terrible per se.

Aside from Rodgers and Flynn, who really saw tangible improvement that proved material to the team's success?

The QB school had to go away after the 2010 season because of the new CBA. MM talked about how he lamented not being able to have the in depth QB school under the bargaining agreement like he had from 2006 - 2010.

MM revitalized Favre's career. Developed Rodgers into an all time greatest QB and developed Matt Flynn from a 7t rounder into a top end backup/low level starter.

Brian Brohm was his miss during that stretch. But I would say in that span when the QB existed, it was a pretty darned good ride.

Favre-- HOF Talent
Rodgers-- HOF Talent
Flynn-- threw 5 TD's (or 6?) against Detroit with what was objectively one of the most prolific offenses of all time from a talent perspective. Got hurt in 2013 but was pretty much unremarkable prior to injury.

The Favre rejuvenation was the most impressive accomplishment of the QB school. Overall I'm just not sure anyone should be breathing real heavy over MM School of Quarterbacking.

[bud fox]

What does first year of the extension years have to do with anything? Why is that even remotely important? FYI when a player signs an "extension" it is simply ripping up the old contract and signing a new one.

So all players who hold out are doing it because they feel "disrespected?" That's the standard here? Man, I thought standard was that they wanted more money... I can't even think of many players at all who broke contract because they felt "disrespected" by a draft pick.

Because I am sure if he knew that during those extension years packers would use there top personnel assets to get a third string qb, rb, fb/te - that he would have thought differently about signing it. New years are always good to use especially when comparing contracts.

The way you put it makes is sound even more respectful. A guy who is not caring about money but standing up for the right thing - not many people at all would ever do that. Commendable.

[Yoop]

If you compare Rodgers rookie preseason to Brett Hundley's rookie season tape....tell me which one you believe will end up the HOFer.

Let's just say one looked more "pro ready" than the other.

not even close, and I didn't even bother to look it up, Hundley in his 3 or 4 years never looked near as composed as Rodgers did his rookie year, and certainly not in year two.

and it's not just about stats, it's how he reacts to pressure and his ability escape it, as I said there where a lot of drops, and yes he did throw some inacurate passes, but then most rookies do.

[go pak go]

I remember much hype around MM and his "great" QB school. Not saying it wasn't great but I think the jury never really came to a decision on that. Rodgers was never terrible. He was raw af at one point, but never terrible per se.

Aside from Rodgers and Flynn, who really saw tangible improvement that proved material to the team's success?

The QB school had to go away after the 2010 season because of the new CBA. MM talked about how he lamented not being able to have the in depth QB school under the bargaining agreement like he had from 2006 - 2010.

MM revitalized Favre's career. Developed Rodgers into an all time greatest QB and developed Matt Flynn from a 7t rounder into a top end backup/low level starter.

Brian Brohm was his miss during that stretch. But I would say in that span when the QB existed, it was a pretty darned good ride.

Favre-- HOF Talent
Rodgers-- HOF Talent
Flynn-- threw 5 TD's (or 6?) against Detroit with what was objectively one of the most prolific offenses of all time from a talent perspective. Got hurt in 2013 but was pretty much unremarkable prior to injury.

The Favre rejuvenation was the most impressive accomplishment of the QB school. Overall I'm just not sure anyone should be breathing real heavy over MM School of Quarterbacking.

5 years of QB school. 1failure and 3 large successes. And yes. I consider what came of Matt Flynn based on his draft status to be a very large success.
You don't call that a resounding success?

Goodness. High standards over in your neck of the woods Ben.

[go pak go]

If you compare Rodgers rookie preseason to Brett Hundley's rookie season tape....tell me which one you believe will end up the HOFer.

Let's just say one looked more "pro ready" than the other.

not even close, and I didn't even bother to look it up

Yup. That makes sense.

[Pckfn23]

Because I am sure if he knew that during those extension years packers would use there top personnel assets to get a third string qb, rb, fb/te - that he would have thought differently about signing it. New years are always good to use especially when comparing contracts.

The way you put it makes is sound even more respectful. A guy who is not caring about money but standing up for the right thing - not many people at all would ever do that. Commendable.

Years? You mean 1 year? You mean the 2020 draft only is the reason that he feels so disrespected? He feels so disrespected because we drafted a RB in round 2 as our top 2 runningbacks were going to be free agents? He feels so disrespected because we drafted an H-back because we didn't have a dynamic TE yet, or have a fullback? So basically he just feels disrespected because we drafted a QB after 2 years of average play from our current aging and expensive QB and Rodgers didn't want a competition that he could easily beat out.

Standing up for the right thing? What is the right thing that he is standing up for? The team can only acquire players or let go of players he approves of? The team can't have competition to improve?

New years means nothing in the situation and we aren't comparing contracts, so even more useless. It is trying to be said that there was some mythical plan to resign Rodgers and then draft a replacement within a years time. This is patently ridiculous.

[Yoop]

I remember much hype around MM and his "great" QB school. Not saying it wasn't great but I think the jury never really came to a decision on that. Rodgers was never terrible. He was raw af at one point, but never terrible per se.

Aside from Rodgers and Flynn, who really saw tangible improvement that proved material to the team's success?

The QB school had to go away after the 2010 season because of the new CBA. MM talked about how he lamented not being able to have the in depth QB school under the bargaining agreement like he had from 2006 - 2010.

MM revitalized Favre's career. Developed Rodgers into an all time greatest QB and developed Matt Flynn from a 7t rounder into a top end backup/low level starter.

Brian Brohm was his miss during that stretch. But I would say in that span when the QB existed, it was a pretty darned good ride.

Favre-- HOF Talent
Rodgers-- HOF Talent
Flynn-- threw 5 TD's (or 6?) against Detroit with what was objectively one of the most prolific offenses of all time from a talent perspective. Got hurt in 2013 but was pretty much unremarkable prior to injury.

The Favre rejuvenation was the most impressive accomplishment of the QB school. Overall I'm just not sure anyone should be breathing real heavy over MM School of Quarterbacking.

he helped another old pro I forget his name, but agree, I think Mike was a bit overrated as a QB Guru, some like to think Minus McCarthy Rodgers would have bust out

[Pckfn23]

If you compare Rodgers rookie preseason to Brett Hundley's rookie season tape....tell me which one you believe will end up the HOFer.

Let's just say one looked more "pro ready" than the other.

not even close, and I didn't even bother to look it up

Yup. That makes sense.