Rodgers wants out

From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.

Moderators: NCF, salmar80, BF004, APB, Packfntk

Where will Rodgers play next season?

Green Bay
21
62%
Cleveland
0
No votes
Las Vegas
1
3%
Miami
0
No votes
Indianapolis
0
No votes
Denver
11
32%
Seattle
0
No votes
Pittsburgh
1
3%
Houston
0
No votes
Washington
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 34

User avatar
go pak go
Reactions:
Posts: 12917
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 21:30

Post by go pak go »

NCF wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:41
YoHoChecko wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:36
Rodgers will be worth 2 first round picks any year where he is still playing. Any downfall in his play this year will be blamed by optimistic coaches and insatiable owners as a result of circumstances and displeasure. We learned clearly this offseason that there will always be those around the league who believe Rodgers is great and only fails as the result of others, and never because of himself.

Don't kvetch about it now. We got what we wanted/needed. Another year with him at the helm. The original plan can go back in place, only now it IS path-dependent and locked in; whereas before it was a set of options annually.
We need multiple teams to be calling. With reports that Aaron has, at least some, say in his next destination, that team isn't going to be bidding against itself. That actually could get really ugly, too. I think the Packers need to be prepared to accept some kind of discount compared to his true value. If like Denver, Washington, LV, and others are all in pushing strong, I'd set the floor at a 1st and 3rd, but expect we will do better than that.
Yup. This is the thing that makes me nervous too.

Rodgers could actually "decide who he wants to play for" and artificially drive the price down. And honestly, there is incentive for Rodgers to make the price as low as possible so he gets as many resources from his perspective for his final years.
Yoop wrote:
26 May 2021 11:22
could we get some moderation in here to get rid of conspiracy theory's, some in here are trying to have a adult conversation.
Image

User avatar
paco
Reactions:
Posts: 6713
Joined: 18 Mar 2020 15:29
Location: Janesville, WI

Post by paco »

Yoop wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:54
paco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:41
Yoop wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:31


those where always unrealistic expectations, teams are not going to hand over 1st round Rookies or highly talented young players, draft picks where our best chance for compensation, possibly 2 first, maybe 3 scattered over a few seasons and a 2nd rounder, but the idea that we could demand multiple players never made sense to me, I'd never give up the players.
The players never made sense to me either. Just from a cap perspective. But I do expect at least a few higher draft picks in exchange.
I think we'll get 2 first rounders, but if Rodgers plays even close to last season I think we'll get more, and the FO might just try and get him to stay and retire a Packer.

I brought up that stuff with Ron Wolf because if Love does look good we could trade him and just draft another QB and ride Rodgers as NO rode Bree's, the goal is to have the very best QB we possibly can, and Rodgers could easily be that player.
Bless your heart Yoop. Hang on to that hope. But Rodgers is not a Packer after this year.
Image
RIP JustJeff

User avatar
Pckfn23
Reactions:
Posts: 13740
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 22:13
Location: Western Wisconsin

Post by Pckfn23 »

paco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:45
wallyuwl wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:44
I keep hearing on the radio the Packers have made/will be making "concessions" to AR? Are they going to give him nachos and beer?
He doesn't eat cheese anymore, so the nachos are probably out.
He doesn't really drink beer, so that's out too. Probably scotch and Kwik Trip Sushi
Image
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."

User avatar
paco
Reactions:
Posts: 6713
Joined: 18 Mar 2020 15:29
Location: Janesville, WI

Post by paco »

go pak go wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:54
NCF wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:41
YoHoChecko wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:36
Rodgers will be worth 2 first round picks any year where he is still playing. Any downfall in his play this year will be blamed by optimistic coaches and insatiable owners as a result of circumstances and displeasure. We learned clearly this offseason that there will always be those around the league who believe Rodgers is great and only fails as the result of others, and never because of himself.

Don't kvetch about it now. We got what we wanted/needed. Another year with him at the helm. The original plan can go back in place, only now it IS path-dependent and locked in; whereas before it was a set of options annually.
We need multiple teams to be calling. With reports that Aaron has, at least some, say in his next destination, that team isn't going to be bidding against itself. That actually could get really ugly, too. I think the Packers need to be prepared to accept some kind of discount compared to his true value. If like Denver, Washington, LV, and others are all in pushing strong, I'd set the floor at a 1st and 3rd, but expect we will do better than that.
Yup. This is the thing that makes me nervous too.

Rodgers could actually "decide who he wants to play for" and artificially drive the price down. And honestly, there is incentive for Rodgers to make the price as low as possible so he gets as many resources from his perspective for his final years.
Its why the Packers have to insist on a list from Rodgers of places he's willing to play. And they need to have that list now, not the end of the year. If they give him complete say in his destination, we get screwed.
Image
RIP JustJeff

User avatar
go pak go
Reactions:
Posts: 12917
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 21:30

Post by go pak go »

BF004 wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:45
I have said too, if we do trade him, I'd be very content getting more future picks than immediate.

A) The team trading for Aaron will clearly be going all in, will probably not want to give a lot of immediate potential in terms of players or even current draft picks.

B) If we are playing the long game, let Jordan develop and when its time for him to get a 2nd contract, I'd rather some more guys on rookie contracts as long as possible.

C) Knowing the team acquiring Aaron will likely be good (1st rounders 25+, we can use that to as for more, vs. getting a top 15 pick from Denver in the '22 draft)


I feel like an ideal trade would be like a 2nd rounder in 2022, 1st round and 3rd in 2023, 1st and 3rd in 2024.

Should net us a decent 2nd round pick next year, then a few bad 1st and 3rd rounders in upcoming years.

I guess I like that more than 2022 1st and 2023 1st and 3rd, or something like that.
I like your line of thinking.

Though when we look at it, a top 10 2nd round 2022 pick vs a likely late 20's 1st round and 3rd round in 2024....from a draft value perspective, we may be able to demand a bit more.

I can see positives for both sides. A benefit of a good 2022 pick is they are ready to "contribute" in 2023 when we likely we want/need that person to start stepping in.
Yoop wrote:
26 May 2021 11:22
could we get some moderation in here to get rid of conspiracy theory's, some in here are trying to have a adult conversation.
Image

User avatar
lupedafiasco
Reactions:
Posts: 4892
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 17:17

Post by lupedafiasco »

paco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:56
Yoop wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:54
paco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:41


The players never made sense to me either. Just from a cap perspective. But I do expect at least a few higher draft picks in exchange.
I think we'll get 2 first rounders, but if Rodgers plays even close to last season I think we'll get more, and the FO might just try and get him to stay and retire a Packer.

I brought up that stuff with Ron Wolf because if Love does look good we could trade him and just draft another QB and ride Rodgers as NO rode Bree's, the goal is to have the very best QB we possibly can, and Rodgers could easily be that player.
Bless your heart Yoop. Hang on to that hope. But Rodgers is not a Packer after this year.
Yeah it’s over. This is the last hurrah. No trust on Rodgers end for the organization to stick with him and no trust on the Packers end that he just calls it quits because he’s unhappy.

I am interested to see how it turns out. There will be no in between. Either Love is a good QB and this end up being a great decision or Love is not and this ends up being probably the worst decision in Packers, possibly league, history. Time will tell.
Cancelled by the forum elites.

User avatar
lupedafiasco
Reactions:
Posts: 4892
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 17:17

Post by lupedafiasco »

Also with this seeming to be a handshake type deal between Rodgers and the Packers and probably having an exclusive list the two sides agree on I think it shrinks the compensation immensely. I would be surprised with multiple 1st round picks as compensation.
Cancelled by the forum elites.

YoHoChecko
Reactions:
Posts: 9631
Joined: 26 Mar 2020 11:34

Post by YoHoChecko »

The benefit of trading Rodgers next offseason before the draft is that we know what the pick will be. Extending out the "good" picks to future years takes that certainty away.

Where-as once the draft was over this year, we'd be looking at Rodgers playing for another team before we got their pick--this scenario of getting him back this year and then moving on means we get the pick before Rodgers plays for them. [mention]BF004[/mention]'s plan would eliminate that benefit entirely, so I can't get on board with it.

I'd be looking to get a top ten pick for Rodgers. Some team that had a stroke of bad luck that left a good roster with a bad pick. LV and Denver were on his list THIS year (as was San Fran), but the list may be entirely different next year. But Den and SF were both fairly high picks this year, so the notion that Rodgers wouldn't go to a team with a high draft pick shouldn't enter the conversation.

So yeah, a 2022 top-12 pick is a must for me. What more we can get, we take. But the top-end talent, for me, is a must.

Got my eyes on a DT from Texas A&M with that pick already, honestly.

wallyuwl
Reactions:
Posts: 5850
Joined: 25 Mar 2020 20:39

Post by wallyuwl »

paco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:45
wallyuwl wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:44
I keep hearing on the radio the Packers have made/will be making "concessions" to AR? Are they going to give him nachos and beer?
He doesn't eat cheese anymore, so the nachos are probably out.
Maybe burgers and beer? Popcorn? Trying to figure out what these "concessions" are, on the radio they don't say.

YoHoChecko
Reactions:
Posts: 9631
Joined: 26 Mar 2020 11:34

Post by YoHoChecko »

lupedafiasco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:07
Also with this seeming to be a handshake type deal between Rodgers and the Packers and probably having an exclusive list the two sides agree on I think it shrinks the compensation immensely. I would be surprised with multiple 1st round picks as compensation.
I don't think it'll be a "handshake." I think it'll be a no-trade clause which means he can't be traded without his agreement. It doesn't shrink his compensation at all unless multiple teams that Rodgers would like to play for don't also want Rodgers. As it is, teams already wouldn't trade for a moody QB who doesn't want to be there.

User avatar
paco
Reactions:
Posts: 6713
Joined: 18 Mar 2020 15:29
Location: Janesville, WI

Post by paco »

wallyuwl wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:09
paco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:45
wallyuwl wrote:
27 Jul 2021 10:44
I keep hearing on the radio the Packers have made/will be making "concessions" to AR? Are they going to give him nachos and beer?
He doesn't eat cheese anymore, so the nachos are probably out.
Maybe burgers and beer? Popcorn? Trying to figure out what these "concessions" are, on the radio they don't say.
I think it is mostly that he's out after this year and has a bit of say in where he ends up. Then add in the questionable Cobb business. There are probably a few other inside things we'll never know about. But guessing this is mainly it.
Image
RIP JustJeff

User avatar
Pckfn23
Reactions:
Posts: 13740
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 22:13
Location: Western Wisconsin

Post by Pckfn23 »

Aaron Rodgers is a Packer for 2021. Water is under the bridge. We will cross any other roads when we need to. GO PACK GO!
Image
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."

YoHoChecko
Reactions:
Posts: 9631
Joined: 26 Mar 2020 11:34

Post by YoHoChecko »

Not to mirror Florio's take too closely, but the only reason it's being reported that the Packers made concessions is because after being in Rodgers' camp all offseason, the national media doesn't want to report that he caved.

The concessions are literally what they were willing to give all along. The plan is now exactly what Rodgers was allegedly attempting to protest "play one more year, then you're out." The restructure of the deal creates the cap space the Packers wanted. The voiding of 2023 basically means that the Packers have to move Rodgers next offseason or let him walk without compensation, so Rodgers gets the assurance that the Packers will do exactly what he "feared" they would do to him.

This is an unmitigated win for the Packers org in terms of how the showdown could resolve. The showdown itself was lose-lose, in that it took options away from both sides. But Rodgers held out and made a stink all offseason just to come back in and get traded next offseason--just like we all figured.

User avatar
go pak go
Reactions:
Posts: 12917
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 21:30

Post by go pak go »

lupedafiasco wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:04

I am interested to see how it turns out. There will be no in between. Either Love is a good QB and this end up being a great decision or Love is not and this ends up being probably the worst decision in Packers, possibly league, history. Time will tell.
There is absolutely room for middle ground and I honestly think it is quite likely.

Rodgers goes to his new team and they finish top 4/top 8 for the next 3 seasons.

Love turns out to be a decent prospect and with MLF's system, we end up being a perennial contender for the division and playoffs from 2023 - 2025.

It is a very likely situation that a "middle ground" is likely. Of course, it also depends on what you call middle ground. We are so caught up in SB or Bust the last 5 years that middle ground is NFC Title game material.
Yoop wrote:
26 May 2021 11:22
could we get some moderation in here to get rid of conspiracy theory's, some in here are trying to have a adult conversation.
Image

User avatar
Yoop
Reactions:
Posts: 11913
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 09:23

Post by Yoop »

YoHoChecko wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:07
So yeah, a 2022 top-12 pick is a must for me. What more we can get, we take. But the top-end talent, for me, is a must.
very doubtful he'll go to a team with a record that gives them the 12th pick, he'll want to go a team that gives him a chance to win, and win quickly, he wont go to a team that needs a bunch of players to win it all, why would he do that? and most of the teams like that play well enough to give us a pick that high, thats why we need maybe a 1st and a 2nd year one and another first the following year, or something more reasonable like that.

YoHoChecko
Reactions:
Posts: 9631
Joined: 26 Mar 2020 11:34

Post by YoHoChecko »

Yoop wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:38
very doubtful he'll go to a team with a record that gives them the 12th pick, he'll want to go a team that gives him a chance to win, and win quickly, he wont go to a team that needs a bunch of players to win it all, why would he do that? and most of the teams like that play well enough to give us a pick that high, thats why we need maybe a 1st and a 2nd year one and another first the following year, or something more reasonable like that.
His list this year included teams who would have picked 9th, 12th, and 17th. I specifically addressed that in the same post.

User avatar
Pckfn23
Reactions:
Posts: 13740
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 22:13
Location: Western Wisconsin

Post by Pckfn23 »

Rodgers Returns, But What Did He Get?
Aaron, by all reports, wanted out of Green Bay, and had for some time. I am still not sure about the “wanting out” part of the reporting, but I do know he had issues there, yes. There appeared to be no one in the Packers front office for whom Aaron felt as a “point person,” someone he could shoot the breeze with about things beyond football and talk to openly and honestly. I have spoken before about the Packers’ tradition of “football guys” running the operation, with great talent in player evaluation but deficiencies in communication and people skills. Although I was clearly a minority in this thinking, I always believed the Packers should be more communicative publicly, as I have always seen them as somewhat of a public trust, but they are not. And I think that filters down to player communications.

Aaron is a person that gets set on something and it is hard to convince him otherwise. He can put people, as he phrased it to me many years ago, “on blast” and it appeared he had put the Packers front office “on blast.” It also appeared deeper than money; were it about money—adding future guarantees, bumping up his salary, etc.—it would have been resolved in a day. It seemed personal, an accumulation of disrespect—whether perceived or real was not really important —from the Packers. And face-to-face visits from the coach, general manager and the president of the team, which is the right response from the team, yielded no resolution.

When the Packers drafted Love, I said two things: 1) we had an expiration date on Aaron and the Packers (what I have always thought to be 2022); and 2) the Packers would have to manage this situation, as we did many years ago with Brett Favre in Aaron’s current role and Aaron in Love’s role, and that’s not easy. It is challenging managing a situation with no specific transfer point and competing interests on each side. And it appeared the Packers had not managed this well.

Aaron is not blameless here, but superstars like Aaron drive the product; they move the needle; they merit special treatment. The Packers seemed to be stuck in a pattern of treating everyone the same and not making special allowances for anyone, even Aaron, and that was coming home to roost. It is the world we live in; sports is a star-driven business and stars have to be treated with great care and attention. Adapt or die.

I have said for months that the Packers weren’t trading Aaron in 2021, that Aaron can’t trade himself, that he wouldn’t retire, that the Packers would make some kind of financial or other accommodation to have Aaron play this year and that he would be traded in 2022. I believe this is on track.

Deadlines spurred action (sound familiar) and after all the angst and breathless reporting of Aaron’s discontent, he is going to play this season for the Packers. There are reported “concessions” made to Aaron, with some information on them, although still awaiting the details.

In recent weeks and even as recently as Sunday, I advanced a potential resolution that both sides would hate, but often the most distasteful deals are the ones that get done. It would have had the Packers granting Aaron a void, an ability to get out of the contract—as the Patriots gave to Tom Brady a couple years back—after this season (2021). It would be distasteful to the Packers as they would get no trade compensation in 2022. It would be distasteful to Aaron because if he wanted out of Green Bay as bad as it seemed. But maybe, I posited, the mutual distaste could make it work. It was food for thought.

According to reports, there was a meeting of the minds between the Packers and Aaron in this way I advanced, with a void. But, surprisingly to me, the void is after 2022, not after 2021. Thus, the Packers would retain the ability to garner trade compensation for Aaron next year after riding his expected MVP-level play this year. To me, this seems like a win for the Packers. Their plan, in my mind, has always been to play Aaron this year and move to Love next year. My sense was that Aaron was not down with that and perhaps he even suggested to just move the calendar up a year and trade him now, which the Packers have resisted all along. But alas, the Packers will have their wish: Aaron as both MVP and placeholder for Jordan Love.

Another concession that was reported was some kind of review of the situation after this year, despite the void not being until after next year. What does that mean? Well, to me, that means Aaron will be traded and have major input into where he is traded. And according to reports the Packers, at Aaron’s request, will be bringing back Randall Cobb to the team; a step, although not a huge ask from the team.

Again, my strong sense is that the Packers plan was to move to Love in 2022, next year. And their plan is intact.

I am left scratching my head as to what Aaron accomplished here but maybe it was the reporting, not Aaron’s discontent, that was over the top. Wasn’t Aaron, according to reports, “done with Green Bay”? And now he is committed there another year, perhaps even two, for getting a void in 2023 and Randall Cobb? Really?

I guess what all of this means is what I have said all along: There is a limit to player empowerment, even for the elite of the elite, in the NFL. Aaron is a true superstar, but in a sport still tilted towards management. He is not James Harden or Anthony Davis; this is not the NBA. The superstars have some power in the NFL, but the teams have more, a lot more. Heck, it took 20 years for Tom Brady to “get out” of New England and exert some level of power. As I say often, the only true driver of player power in team sports is free agency, and NFL teams prevent that well with long-term contracts (which Aaron had) and the franchise tag. NBA superstars always hit free agency; NFL superstars virtually never do.

Maybe one day we will have true player empowerment in the NFL, where A-listers like Aaron can truly force teams’ hands in a way that did not happen here. But that day is not today. As great as players like Aaron are, the winning side of the business of football is still the team side.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/07/27/break ... f-football
Image
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."

User avatar
go pak go
Reactions:
Posts: 12917
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 21:30

Post by go pak go »

Yoop wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:38
YoHoChecko wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:07
So yeah, a 2022 top-12 pick is a must for me. What more we can get, we take. But the top-end talent, for me, is a must.
very doubtful he'll go to a team with a record that gives them the 12th pick, he'll want to go a team that gives him a chance to win, and win quickly, he wont go to a team that needs a bunch of players to win it all, why would he do that? and most of the teams like that play well enough to give us a pick that high, thats why we need maybe a 1st and a 2nd year one and another first the following year, or something more reasonable like that.
Your top 15 picks are comprised of about a third of teams who are complete dumpster fires (think Houston. New York Jets). A third of teams who are trending down (think Chicago 2019 and 2020) and starting a rebuild, and a third of teams who are actually quite solid, maybe even young and talented (just unproven) with a hole at QB (think Washington. Denver. Carolina)

There are absolutely going to be teams that are top 10/15 that would make a ton of sense for Rodgers. Teams in that 20 plus range usually already have a solid QB in place. That's why they are picking in that 20 plus range.
Yoop wrote:
26 May 2021 11:22
could we get some moderation in here to get rid of conspiracy theory's, some in here are trying to have a adult conversation.
Image

User avatar
Pckfn23
Reactions:
Posts: 13740
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 22:13
Location: Western Wisconsin

Post by Pckfn23 »

YoHoChecko wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:42
Yoop wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:38
very doubtful he'll go to a team with a record that gives them the 12th pick, he'll want to go a team that gives him a chance to win, and win quickly, he wont go to a team that needs a bunch of players to win it all, why would he do that? and most of the teams like that play well enough to give us a pick that high, thats why we need maybe a 1st and a 2nd year one and another first the following year, or something more reasonable like that.
His list this year included teams who would have picked 9th, 12th, and 17th. I specifically addressed that in the same post.
Also teams that are drafting 20+, do not usually need a QB.
Image
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."

User avatar
Yoop
Reactions:
Posts: 11913
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 09:23

Post by Yoop »

YoHoChecko wrote:
27 Jul 2021 11:25
Not to mirror Florio's take too closely, but the only reason it's being reported that the Packers made concessions is because after being in Rodgers' camp all offseason, the national media doesn't want to report that he caved.

The concessions are literally what they were willing to give all along. The plan is now exactly what Rodgers was allegedly attempting to protest "play one more year, then you're out." The restructure of the deal creates the cap space the Packers wanted. The voiding of 2023 basically means that the Packers have to move Rodgers next offseason or let him walk without compensation, so Rodgers gets the assurance that the Packers will do exactly what he "feared" they would do to him.

This is an unmitigated win for the Packers org in terms of how the showdown could resolve. The showdown itself was lose-lose, in that it took options away from both sides. But Rodgers held out and made a stink all offseason just to come back in and get traded next offseason--just like we all figured.
well WE may have figured Rodgers would come back, play this year and get traded next off season, but thats not what the FO wanted to do, they wanted to keep Rodgers around for 2022 just in case Love didn't pan out, and even 2023 till sometime during PS to see if Love was ready then, thats why he got a 4 year extension, and he didn't want to be a one year at a time player.

I think as you've pointed out plenty that the team had the leverage, but now we are finding out that they would rather bend on that leverage then to count on Love this year, and from what we've heard they may want to do a longer term commitment after this season, Makes sense because whether people want to accept it or not Love is a 50/50 gamble.

Post Reply