Rodgers wants out

[texas]

I'm happy that Rodgers did a 180 on his usual passive-aggressiveness. That was quite an up front press conference and I can't remember a player of his stature showing up to play, actually apparently being a team player (often they show up in situations like this and pout instead), and yet being so open about his gripes in front of all parties. <snip>

He must have been hitting the squat rack this past offseason again just like last offseason.

[Pckfn23]

https://stathead.com/tiny/KBJKd

Let me enlighten here a bit on actually drafting a successful QB and just look at draft position. I am going to set good QB career at 40 Career Approximate Value. It's kind of arbitrary, but does seem to be a good line with the vast majority of good QBs above that line. That means there are 111 QBs drafted since 1970 we will look at:

54 of the 111 were 1st round picks.
44 of the 111 were taken before pick 15.
51 of the 111 were taken before pick 27.

Trying to say Jordan Love is already likely to fail simply by pigeon holing him due to his draft position is crazy. While most draft picks don't live up to expectations regardless of position or draft slot. Almost a majority of successful QBs comes from the 1st round.

I wanted to expand on this a bit more. Let's add all the players drafted since 1970 with a career AV of 30 or great. That adds 24 guys in the 30s.

We have 135 QBs, drafted since 1970 with a career AV of 30 or great.

69 of the 135 were drafted in the 1st round.
55 of the 135 were drafted before pick 15.
65 of the 135 were drafted before pick 27.

Here is the illustrious list of players in the 30s:


There are a fair few Pro Bowlers in there (10), but once you get into the 20s the only Pro Bowlers are Tom Tupa and Derek Anderson. There is not a single Pro Bowler in the 10s and we don't come to another Pro Bowler until Mike Boryla at Career AV of 8. He is the last Pro Bowler on the list. I have no clue who the hell that is. I think 30 Career AV might be a good cut off for a QB considered to have had a "good" career.

[NCF]

There are a fair few Pro Bowlers in there (10), but once you get into the 20s the only Pro Bowlers are Tom Tupa and Derek Anderson.

Tom Tupa made the Pro Bowl as a Punter.

[Pckfn23]

There are a fair few Pro Bowlers in there (10), but once you get into the 20s the only Pro Bowlers are Tom Tupa and Derek Anderson.

Tom Tupa made the Pro Bowl as a Punter.

So only Derek Anderson then! Until you just typed that I forgot Tupa was a punter.

[lupedafiasco]

Im very happy with Rodgers presser. It was way more open and honest than I expected. I thought he would give team talk the entire time. Just some takeaways.

He said why he is upset and what he thinks of management. To be clear, Ive said it before, you cant let players make personnel decisions. Its a conflict of interest. That being said, perception is everything. You need to make it look as if Rodgers has some input. Take his opinions into consideration and if you disagree have a discussion with him. Explain your reasoning to dismiss his input.

Say what you want but Rodgers has been the foundation of the Packers for a decade plus. That deserves some type of input and its insane the Packers havent seemed to care. It only looks worse when Brady goes to TB and makes requests that were granted. You can make the excuse about the difference in pay between Rodgers and Brady but again perception is everything.

It is very clear to me that Rodgers was unhappy with what he was working with at WR. The biggest sign is that it seems the only real "concession" made to bring him back was acquiring Cobb. It seems Rodgers really pushed for that. He also said he felt like he wanted input on decision that affect how he does his job, or something like that. To me he was taking shots at the dog &%$@ that has been supplied to him at WR and he isnt wrong. This management has done an awful job trying to support that group and I think Rodgers got sick of it.

[Drj820]

Im very happy with Rodgers presser. It was way more open and honest than I expected. I thought he would give team talk the entire time. Just some takeaways.

He said why he is upset and what he thinks of management. To be clear, Ive said it before, you cant let players make personnel decisions. Its a conflict of interest. That being said, perception is everything. You need to make it look as if Rodgers has some input. Take his opinions into consideration and if you disagree have a discussion with him. Explain your reasoning to dismiss his input.

Say what you want but Rodgers has been the foundation of the Packers for a decade plus. That deserves some type of input and its insane the Packers havent seemed to care. It only looks worse when Brady goes to TB and makes requests that were granted. You can make the excuse about the difference in pay between Rodgers and Brady but again perception is everything.

It is very clear to me that Rodgers was unhappy with what he was working with at WR. The biggest sign is that it seems the only real "concession" made to bring him back was acquiring Cobb. It seems Rodgers really pushed for that. He also said he felt like he wanted input on decision that affect how he does his job, or something like that. To me he was taking shots at the dog &%$@ that has been supplied to him at WR and he isnt wrong. This management has done an awful job trying to support that group and I think Rodgers got sick of it.

Adams is a great WR. He would be great without Rodgers, beyond that...most of the guys would struggle to make rosters without 12. I agree that Rodgers has carried the franchise..to the point that Mark Murphy May be out of a job without 12 over the last decade...yet Murphy seems to be the one insistent on Rodgers “staying in his lane”. Murphy wants to be the biggest ego in the room. I don’t think he likes sharing ego space with 12.

[go pak go]

Good points by all. I haven't gotten all of the presser but I listened to about half and like what he had to say.

There are some things where I think he really hashed on the "old way" of Packer blunders which I completely agree. The decisions made from 2012 - spring 2017 were real head scratchers.

I think Gutey f*'ed big on Nelson but it was his first year. I do think moving on from Matthews was the right move. I also think the 2019 Packers and beyond are a different team than the TT Packers.

Sounds like ultimately not knowing the future is what bothered Aaron the most. I don't blame him for that. I also don't blame the Packers for not committing to Rodgers beyond this season either.

Let's make 2021 a great finale.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Watched Gutey's presser. Reporters asked him everything. He did a good job responding, however I could sense a tinge of "I don't like what happened or is going on". Overall he understands he is in the spotlight..........goes with the territory of the job, etc. Gute has to play with a candle that's lit at about 4 ends. Not sure Gute is equally in charge as Ron Wolf was. Wolf would have been a better mentor than Ted.

Whatever........we've got some new blood on the roster. Thank you Gutey for doing something.

GO PACK GO !!

The Green Bay Packahs!

[Drj820]

JP will play for 3m to retire a packer? Just do it.

Peppers isn't really relevant in my opinion. He was basically done and he wanted to return to Carolina anyway. Maybe Woodson would be a better example?
[/quote]

Rodgers very well could have been using revisionist history, but was peppers really done with stats like these?

[go pak go]

Yeah. It's hard to defend the team on the veteran decisions like Wood, Peppers, Hyde, Casey and Nelson.

Casey and Hyde were just moronic "cap savings" moves and if the vets are willing to take a pay cut...I mean just think if we had Woodson back there instead of what's his name...McMillian? I don't even remember.

I thought Rodgers nailed his press conference. He did such a good job of also recognizing reality and that cap is a real thing.

I was just very impressed. I will wear my #12 jersey again this season proudly.

[Drj820]

Yeah. It's hard to defend the team on the veteran decisions like Wood, Peppers, Hyde, Casey and Nelson.

Casey and Hyde were just moronic "cap savings" moves and if the vets are willing to take a pay cut...I mean just think if we had Woodson back there instead of what's his name...McMillian? I don't even remember.

I thought Rodgers nailed his press conference. He did such a good job of also recognizing reality and that cap is a real thing.

I was just very impressed. I will wear my #12 jersey again this season proudly.

After sleeping on the presser and letting it digest...I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that was a historic press conference. Rodgers gave us more than we could have ever imagined, and he gave us more than ANY QB has ever given while about to start training camp with a team that still employs him. I mean the man brought a list of players that had been done wrong, and his bosses were probably 100 yards away in the same building haha.

Brady, Russ, mahommes May be the QBs good enough to get away with something like that...but we all know they just give us coach speak the whole time while keeping a tight lip. Rodgers aired it all out. Told us everything we ever wanted to know about the situation. That was bold, and unprecedented.

Now that hes back at camp, the pendelum has swung hard toward Rodgers for me. I understand his side. That presser was one to rewatch over and over.

[Yoop]

Yeah. It's hard to defend the team on the veteran decisions like Wood, Peppers, Hyde, Casey and Nelson.

Casey and Hyde were just moronic "cap savings" moves and if the vets are willing to take a pay cut...I mean just think if we had Woodson back there instead of what's his name...McMillian? I don't even remember.

I thought Rodgers nailed his press conference. He did such a good job of also recognizing reality and that cap is a real thing.

I was just very impressed. I will wear my #12 jersey again this season proudly.

Rodgers couldn't have made worse personal decisions then those, lis, Rodgers knows talent, he's not some dummy as some here have portrayed him to be, not naming names, actually I tend to think a lot of the backlash at him is actually directed at me for defending him.

[NCF]

He said why he is upset and what he thinks of management. To be clear, Ive said it before, you cant let players make personnel decisions. Its a conflict of interest. That being said, perception is everything. You need to make it look as if Rodgers has some input. Take his opinions into consideration and if you disagree have a discussion with him. Explain your reasoning to dismiss his input.

As always, the devil is in the details. I agree with you 100%, but it seems as though Aaron, maybe, still doesn't. If Aaron is demanding more than this, he is dead wrong. If Brian Gutekunst is refusing to do, at least, this, then he is dead wrong.

How have they had multiple face-to-face meetings and not found on common ground on this issue? As candid as Aaron seemingly was, and I do believe he was very sincere, I think there are still critical details that we did not learn yesterday.

[APB]

Yeah. It's hard to defend the team on the veteran decisions like Wood, Peppers, Hyde, Casey and Nelson.

Casey and Hyde were just moronic "cap savings" moves and if the vets are willing to take a pay cut...I mean just think if we had Woodson back there instead of what's his name...McMillian? I don't even remember.

I thought Rodgers nailed his press conference. He did such a good job of also recognizing reality and that cap is a real thing.

I was just very impressed. I will wear my #12 jersey again this season proudly.

Rodgers couldn't have made worse personal decisions then those, lis, Rodgers knows talent, he's not some dummy as some here have portrayed him to be, not naming names, actually I tend to think a lot of the backlash at him is actually directed at me for defending him.

[Drj820]

He said why he is upset and what he thinks of management. To be clear, Ive said it before, you cant let players make personnel decisions. Its a conflict of interest. That being said, perception is everything. You need to make it look as if Rodgers has some input. Take his opinions into consideration and if you disagree have a discussion with him. Explain your reasoning to dismiss his input.

As always, the devil is in the details. I agree with you 100%, but it seems as though Aaron, maybe, still doesn't. If Aaron is demanding more than this, he is dead wrong. If Brian Gutekunst is refusing to do, at least, this, then he is dead wrong.

How have they had multiple face-to-face meetings and not found on common ground on this issue? As candid as Aaron seemingly was, and I do believe he was very sincere, I think there are still critical details that we did not learn yesterday.

My working theory on this is simple: Gute probably would have no issue with these compromises...that is Gute on his own. However, I believe Gute is somewhat of a puppet for Murphy. I think Murphy wants Rodgers gone. I think Murphy doesn’t want someone else in the building that needs to be catered to, or have authority be surrendered to. I think Murphy is vying for a complete takeover and total control. He gets that when Rodgers exits the building. I think Murphy, through Gute, is giving Rodgers no concessions bc his only use for him is 2021 and then he still plans to ship him off even if he wins MVP again.

I can’t think of any other explanation for the very good question that you asked, unless the FO really does just want him gone, as soon as it contractually makes sense.

[paco]

He said why he is upset and what he thinks of management. To be clear, Ive said it before, you cant let players make personnel decisions. Its a conflict of interest. That being said, perception is everything. You need to make it look as if Rodgers has some input. Take his opinions into consideration and if you disagree have a discussion with him. Explain your reasoning to dismiss his input.

As always, the devil is in the details. I agree with you 100%, but it seems as though Aaron, maybe, still doesn't. If Aaron is demanding more than this, he is dead wrong. If Brian Gutekunst is refusing to do, at least, this, then he is dead wrong.

How have they had multiple face-to-face meetings and not found on common ground on this issue? As candid as Aaron seemingly was, and I do believe he was very sincere, I think there are still critical details that we did not learn yesterday.

I talked this out with my wife yesterday. Key thing we don't know is the process of communication between management and players.

Is Rodgers asking for a person to go to, to give his opinion on players, situations, etc? If he has that person now, is it that they just blow him off? Or is he wanting management to seek him out instead of the other way around?

What I assume has happened is Rodgers wants to have management come to him, run things past him so he can give his opinion. Management has told him a flat NOPE. You are a player, so just play. If you have an opinion feel free to express it and we'll listen, but we aren't coming to you as a potential decision maker or influencer.

I understand both sides in this. It's a slippery slope to open up. You start going to Rodgers, what about Adams, Bakh and others? What happens if you still don't go their way often on decisions? Will they be happy just having a voice? But I also believe, someone as special as Rodgers is an asset you should be taking more advantage of. He's got the ear of the entire league and he has proven to be more than just a player. But Mark/Gutey/Russ have spent millions of dollars putting together teams of professionals to run this team. How do all of the scouts, cap guys, etc start feeling when you start listening to Rodgers more than them?

If you are going to work something like this out, there has to be very strict and set rules and understanding by all sides. But I think management has put their foot down and said this is the way we do things, thus the discord. Again, understandable on both sides. But its led us to this, and will lead to a divorce after this season. Because as Rodgers eluded in the presser, at this point, its too little, too late.

Ok, sorry, I ended up talking out a lot of this last night and in my head over the last day. Guess I just had to type out some of it. I can't agree with 1 side more than the other at this point, and doubt I ever will. So I think this will be my final final post about this (unless one of you says something really dumb that I have to comment on ).

[NCF]

This is the problem with being passive aggressive. Both guys, Aaron and Gute, talking through their teeth a little bit. Truth probably somewhere more in the middle than the extremes either are suggesting.

[go pak go]

Why I appreciated Rodgers's press conference so much yesterday was because he was honest, blunt, thoughtful, rational, considerate of all sides involved.

I think there was communication breakdowns on all ends and thatis truly too bad.

[lupedafiasco]

Yeah. It's hard to defend the team on the veteran decisions like Wood, Peppers, Hyde, Casey and Nelson.

Casey and Hyde were just moronic "cap savings" moves and if the vets are willing to take a pay cut...I mean just think if we had Woodson back there instead of what's his name...McMillian? I don't even remember.

I thought Rodgers nailed his press conference. He did such a good job of also recognizing reality and that cap is a real thing.

I was just very impressed. I will wear my #12 jersey again this season proudly.

Hyde and Casey was a compound mistake by TT we are still paying for. He drafted Randall and Rollins specifically to replace them. They both sucked so we ended up getting King who also sucked. Then we took Jaire and Jackson and Jackson sucks and now we took Stokes.

[Packfntk]

Yeah, it was sincere and did not come off arrogant to me. Brutally honest.

Couple thoughts:

1- The Packers have moved on from numerous veterans over the years. Seems like in most cases, they are on the right side of moving on a year too soon rather than a year too late. I think his beef with it is how it is handled. Instead of telling them they are moving on and thanking them, etc, they simply do not offer a contract and just move.

2- Has Rodgers earned a right to have a say in personnel decisions? Man, I am torn on this. I don't think any player should be part of the decision making process, as they are short term employees in the grand scheme of things. Rodgers has been a fixture in GB for nearly two decades and is one of the best to do it. His gripe is to "be part of the conversation". If that is all it is, I say fine I guess, but it becomes a problem if he has huge issues with the decisions they make and his opinion isn't just good enough. Throwing ideas and opinions out are one thing, but having a say is another.

3- I think we will see a lot more QB's pulling this moving forward. Some may have earned it, some may not. But it will become more prevalent.

A guy called our local sports talk radio yesterday and put in a great analogy. He said he did not agree with the Packers bending for Rodgers, but he worked construction. He said that his boss and ownership often ask him what tools he needs to be more efficient and what they can do for him to get the job done the best he can. That makes a guy think. He is the one in the trenches doing the work, he knows exactly what he needs that can make things work. Maybe his boss won't get him certain tools because the company can't afford them, but at least they know what he thinks. I thought that was good stuff and understand the relation.

Hoping they can work together here, looks like the organization is opening it's mind to change. Would be great if in the end result it works for all.