Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2021

[Drj820]

Isn’t the Gary thing pretty simple at this point? Like the simplest it’s ever been?

The Packers hardly ever pick 12th overall. We selected Gary with that pick. So far, he hasn’t come close to living up to that draft position. It would be an egregious error if Gutey whiffed on the opportunity to draft so high in the draft.

But guess what??? It’s year 3, it’s show time for Gary. All the talk of him being a bust can be put to bed in a just a few weeks! The selection can become a great pick in just a few weeks! He can become a monster in year 3, allow us to move on from Preston, sign a new deal in a couple years, and become a great selection as an elite defender for the next 4-6 years for the Packers.

It’s all up to him, and it’s put up or shut up time. Cant wait to see how it unfolds. In year 3, “being close” isn’t going to be good enough.

[Yoop]

But honestly yoop. You yourself even admitted you liked Josh Allen as your #1 literally a few posts ago. We signed the Smiths the first day of FA so it was a good nearly 7 to 8 weeks before the draft. Your arguments are just becoming so transactional. You pick fights to pick fights and you quickly dismiss something a week later to again just one up a current transactional fight.

ya, thats what we do, we look at players we like prior to the combine and UFA to see who we'd like to draft or buy, thats when I liked Allen and Burns etc.

no way Simmons was likely to last till slot 30, and as I said he rated the highest of any DT taken last year from that class.

your right this is redundent, you simply will not concede that Simmons was a better selection then Gary, even with all the data that proves it..

cheers.

[Pckfn23]

. PITTSBURGH STEELERS
The Steelers are coming off one of the best pass-rushing seasons we’ve seen since 2006, generating pressure on a whopping 45.1% of their pass-rushing snaps over the regular season.

It was a well-rounded effort, with Defensive Player of the Year hopeful T.J. Watt leading the way with 73 total pressures (third in the NFL) and both Stephon Tuitt (71 pressures) and Cameron Heyward (62 pressures) not far behind that mark. Having three of the top 10 pressure producers on the same defense is a remarkable feat, particularly considering Pittsburgh lost starting edge defender Bud Dupree midway through the seas

I brought the PFF link to this, it's somewhere in here.

I don't know where you got your data 23, but it's BS, and I made up nothing, the length you wont go to win a argument, that a 133 pressures from two interior lineman,, the year prior it was the Rams with Donald, if we had better production next to Clark so he would be doubled every snap, he could be in the 50 pressure range, but no we take a backup lber that has hardly done squat.

so deceiving of you to leave these two DT right out of the conversation, this is why I put you on ignore, wanna see a liar, take a look in the mirror.

Good for you. I am glad you used that article, but unfortunately that article only shows 3 players. You can not use that article to make up a statement like this:

in fact, lately, the best pass rushing teams get half there pressure from interior DL players.

The only reason the above statement was fabricated in the first place was to try and provide "evidence" for the Simmons over Gary narrative. That "evidence" is not reality. I brought Pro Football Reference pressure numbers because PFF is behind a huge pay wall and Pro Football Reference has readily available pressure stats. I also did not leave out Stephon Tuitt and Cameron Hayward. They were included in this:

The Pittsburgh Steelers from 2020 had 86 pressures from their 7 deffensive linemen.

So apparently understanding is lacking here, so I will spell it out and show that in fact defensive linemen do not get half of the best pass rushing teams' pressures. If you want to play along click on the above link, find the player, and scroll down to advanced defense.

Outside Linebackers:
T.J. Watt - 61
Bud Dupree - 28
Alex Highsmith - 12

Inside Linebackers:
Robert Spillane - 7
Vince Williams - 6
Devin Bush - 3
Avery Williamson - 2
Jayrone Elliott - 1

Defensive Backs:
Mike HIlton - 6
Terrell Edmunds - 2
Cameron Sutton - 2
Marcus Allen - 2

Defensive Linemen:
Cameron Hayward - 31
Stephon Tuitt - 36
Tyson Alualu - 8
Olasunkanmi Adeniyi - 4
Chris Wormley - 4
Henry Mondeaux - 2
Isaiah Buggs - 1

So let's recap this. 132 pressure from all other positions. 86 from the interior defensive line. That is 60.6% of all pressures came from all other positions and 39.4% of all pressures came the interior defensive line. So, unless you can bring the PFF pressure stats for the other 16 guys on that list, again I say:

PLEASE stop making things up.

[Yoop]

heres the link, this article was not locked behind a pay wall,
I brought it a month ago, like I said 133 pressures from two interior lineman, nothing made up about it, you support PFF when it suits you, and Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats, either way, we could probably find a different pressure rate from any source we looked at, point is interior pressure is more successful then you think

call me a liar, when the freaking article points out specifically that Pitts. 2 interior guys had 133 total pressures, maybe they made this stuff up.
and the article goes on to name the ranking of every team.

heres the Rams rated 3rd with Aaron Donalds 98 total pressures, I didn't say every team gets pressure from interior rushers, just the best teams.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020 ... h-rankings

Defensive line rankings entering the 2021 NFL season

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-al ... 021-season

just look at the top defenses here, all get a lot of interior pressure, now look where we rank, we where a top 5 unit in 019 because Z led the league in pressures, but thats a tough job to repeat and he didn't last year, just maybe better interior pressure would have off set his decline.

[BF004]

the length you wont go to win a argument,

This coming from the guy who said ‘so he shoved her, what’s the big deal, it was her fault’ to at all costs stick to the Rashan Gary was a bad pick, narrative?



At least she’ll know not to mouth off next time, right?

How could Gute possibly not want to bring this guy into our locker room and community.

Spoiler

[NCF]

My position hasn't changed. Jeffrey Simmons was not worthy of being on our Draft board. I wish him well. I hope he has learned and continues to learn from his mistake, but just not a risk I am taking there.

The other thing is we had to sit there and watch NFL Teams take our Forum darlings 4 picks in row, from Hockenson, Oliver, Bush, and Jonah Williams. It doesn't matter in the slightest any more, but I would really, really love to know what the Packers would have done if any of those other four had been available.

Finally, the trade down. Could have traded down. Maybe. But, they picked Gary because they really liked Gary. End of story. Unless someone blew their socks off, it was never really an option.

[go pak go]

Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats,

Do you enjoy making things up? Is it an intentional thing to constantly say the couch is red when it is in fact blue?

Why say things that are so blatantly not true? Why spread misinformation when it takes 5 seconds to verify your information?

PFR Stats Table Below. Clearly has Hurries, Knockdowns, Sacks and total pressures.

image.png (16.8 KiB) Viewed 313 times

[Pckfn23]

heres the link, this article was not locked behind a pay wall,
I brought it a month ago, like I said 133 pressures from two interior lineman, nothing made up about it, you support PFF when it suits you, and Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats, either way, we could probably find a different pressure rate from any source we looked at, point is interior pressure is more successful then you think

call me a liar, when the freaking article points out specifically that Pitts. 2 interior guys had 133 total pressures, maybe they made this stuff up.
and the article goes on to name the ranking of every team.

heres the Rams rated 3rd with Aaron Donalds 98 total pressures, I didn't say every team gets pressure from interior rushers, just the best teams.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020 ... h-rankings

Defensive line rankings entering the 2021 NFL season

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-al ... 021-season

just look at the top defenses here, all get a lot of interior pressure, now look where we rank, we where a top 5 unit in 019 because Z led the league in pressures, but thats a tough job to repeat and he didn't last year, just maybe better interior pressure would have off set his decline.

I am not saying any of the above is made up. I am not saying your PFF numbers or articles are made up. I am saying this statement from you is made up:

in fact, lately, the best pass rushing teams get half there pressure from interior DL players.

I brought evidence to show it is fabricated. No one is arguing against good interior pass rushers being very valuable. That is the line you are now pivoting to which is not what you originally stated. It is being argued that you made up that the best teams have half their pressures coming from the interior defensive line. The reason you can not bring PFF to support that, is because you aren't bringing a complete data set. You brought an article that highlighted 3 players.

FYI, Pro Football Reference pressures does include hurries. Their definition of QB Pressures is Hurries + Knockdowns + All Sack Plays (half & full for players). Might want to look into something before typing things. Also, I already explained why I brought the Pro Football Reference stats, did you not read my post? Pro Football Reference was used because it is the ONLY place that has readily available pressure stats for all players. PFF does not provide that. If you want to use a different pressure stat from a different site, it still needs to be complete.

[Labrev]

Its really freeing mentally to not care about players in the slightest until they have been drafted by the Packers. To come at it having formed no opinion on the players picked, or any other players picked by any other team for that matter..

I have been embracing this more and more every draft. I do look into it a little bit in the last few days before the draft to see if there are guys who fit what I want at a given position, so I can get excited if we get them, but for the most part, I don't really know who these guys are anymore and only find out on draft night.

I did know who Gary was though and I was/am a big proponent of that pick.

[go pak go]

Its really freeing mentally to not care about players in the slightest until they have been drafted by the Packers. To come at it having formed no opinion on the players picked, or any other players picked by any other team for that matter..

I have been embracing this more and more every draft. I do look into it a little bit in the last few days before the draft to see if there are guys who fit what I want at a given position, so I can get excited if we get them, but for the most part, I don't really know who these guys are anymore and only find out on draft night.

I did know who Gary was though and I was/am a big proponent of that pick.

I believe Kylin Hill was the only player I heard of before the Draft of our Day 3 Packers picks.

I think overall the Draft is more fun when you know the names going off the board. So that's why I do it.

[NCF]

I did know who Gary was though and I was/am a big proponent of that pick.

I remember. You were definitely one of the few on board before Draft night.

[Yoop]

My position hasn't changed. Jeffrey Simmons was not worthy of being on our Draft board. I wish him well. I hope he has learned and continues to learn from his mistake, but just not a risk I am taking there.

The other thing is we had to sit there and watch NFL Teams take our Forum darlings 4 picks in row, from Hockenson, Oliver, Bush, and Jonah Williams. It doesn't matter in the slightest any more, but I would really, really love to know what the Packers would have done if any of those other four had been available.

Finally, the trade down. Could have traded down. Maybe. But, they picked Gary because they really liked Gary. End of story. Unless someone blew their socks off, it was never really an option.

of course he was worthy, and has proved it ever since, a lot more then Gary has proven, your once guilty, always guilty, mind set is so typical in this country, and our FO, lis, it's probably why this defense has sucked for a decade, if he was never on our board that is the FO fault for not checking him out more.

I figured you and the rest of the homers here exactly right, you wont listen to reason no matter what evidence is brought to bare.

[NCF]

I figured you and the rest of the homers here exactly right, you wont listen to reason no matter what evidence is brought to bare.

Congratu-$%@#-lations.

[NCF]

of course he was worthy, and has proved it ever since

Yeah, hindsight is beautiful. I am just saying I wouldn't have taken that risk high in the 1st-round. So yeah, I take that back. Would have been fine with him in the 2nd and beyond, just the risk not worth the reward.

And while you continually point to this example, don't forget Tennessee tried to double-dip the following year. How has that worked out for them?

https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tenn ... s-timeline

[BF004]

How the hell does having hesitancy about adding a women beater to a team equate to being a homer? You are embarrassing yourself… again.

[Yoop]

Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats,

Do you enjoy making things up? Is it an intentional thing to constantly say the couch is red when it is in fact blue?

Why say things that are so blatantly not true? Why spread misinformation when it takes 5 seconds to verify your information?

PFR Stats Table Below. Clearly has Hurries, Knockdowns, Sacks and total pressures.

image.png

then why is there such a large difference between PFF and PFR stats? as I said PFF rated Pitt. the best pass rushing defense in 16 years, or ever since they started counting total pressures, and the reason is they have DT's that produce, we have 1, and he is doubled on every snap.

nothing was made up either, I'll stick with the PFF grades , and they show the top 5 or 6 best pass rush teams have two or more quality interior pass rushers, and thats the main reason they top the league.

[Pckfn23]

then why is there such a large difference between PFF and PFR stats?

Pro Football Reference is less liberal at assigning a hurry or knockdown..

nothing was made up either, I'll stick with the PFF grades , and they show the top 5 or 6 best pass rush teams have two or more quality interior pass rushers, and thats the main reason they top the league.

You are making more things up! Based on what? Based on 1 PFF article? That article doesn't have enough data to make such a statement. #3 Rams doesn't mention a 2nd iDL. #5 WFT doesn't mention a 2nd iDL. #6 Bills doesn't mention any iDL.

You can't be making up these statements based on this 1 article. PFF stats are behind a pay wall, they do not give a comprehensive picture. You are using these tiny snapshots to make overarching statements that you have no business making. You simply do not have the evidence to support your statements.

So this isn't twisted around, NO ONE is denying that good interior pass rush is very valuable. No one is denying that using hindsight Simmons has had the better career thus far.

[Yoop]

How the hell does having hesitancy about adding a women beater to a team equate to being a homer? You are embarrassing yourself… again.

cause 3 years had passed, he made restitution, and was a model player through out college, as I said earlier which you asked me if I was $%@# serious about was the ACL injury the reason teams passed on him, the articles I brought and read seemed to think that was the reason.

so ya, if you still hold that incident against him, and also think the FO did to, then ya, to me thats being overly cautious.

actually I think the FO fell in love with Gary, might have even been before they bought the Smiths, and thats a shame, they passed on a very good DT prospect, could have even slide back to get him, Gary will have to be fanominal for me to forget this idiocy.

[Yoop]

nothing was made up either, I'll stick with the PFF grades , and they show the top 5 or 6 best pass rush teams have two or more quality interior pass rushers, and thats the main reason they top the league.

You are making more things up! Based on what? Based on 1 PFF article? That article doesn't have enough data to make such a statement. #3 Rams doesn't mention a 2nd iDL. #5 WFT doesn't mention a 2nd iDL. #6 Bills doesn't mention any iDL.

You can't be making up these statements based on this 1 article.

So this isn't twisted around, NO ONE is denying that good interior pass rush is very valuable.

nothing made up, these teams do better then we do because they get interior pressure, how many PFF articles does it take. my point was we freaking Lack interior pass rush, we had a chance to take a interior pass rusher, instead we drafted a bench warming DE and last year dropped back to the middle of the league get pass pressure, thats it, doesn't matter which data site you use, those facts remain the same

and you've been denying our need of better pass pressure all along everytime you endorse the pick of Gary over Simmons, wtf of course you have this twisted.

[Pckfn23]

nothing was made up either, I'll stick with the PFF grades , and they show the top 5 or 6 best pass rush teams have two or more quality interior pass rushers, and thats the main reason they top the league.

You are making more things up! Based on what? Based on 1 PFF article? That article doesn't have enough data to make such a statement. #3 Rams doesn't mention a 2nd iDL. #5 WFT doesn't mention a 2nd iDL. #6 Bills doesn't mention any iDL.

You can't be making up these statements based on this 1 article.

So this isn't twisted around, NO ONE is denying that good interior pass rush is very valuable.

nothing made up, these teams do better then we do because they get interior pressure, how many PFF articles does it take. my point was we freaking Lack interior pass rush, we had a chance to take a interior pass rusher, instead we drafted a bench warming DE and last year dropped back to the middle of the league get pass pressure, thats it, doesn't matter which data site you use, those facts remain the same

and you've been denying our need of better pass pressure all along everytime you endorse the pick of Gary over Simmons, wtf of course you have this twisted.

How many PFF articles does it take? It doesn't take PFF articles, it takes PFF data...

I don't give a rats ass what you think your point is. You continue to make up statements to try and "support" your point. Please stop making things up.

I have denied our need for better pass pressure? Where? When? Yet more things you make up. Come on man!