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this is so spot on, when your dealing with a defense that can get pressure in a 2 count, who ya gonna depend on to be open? smooth long striding Lazard, or Randall Cobb who's known to separate in a phone booth? easy answer.
What? That's not Cobb's game at all. It briefly was early in his career, but his strength later on was being in the right place when the play breaks down. And always he was great with the ball in his hands. But getting it to that point was not his strength. Most fans were not sad to see Cobb walk because the guy just couldn't get open early in a play; every play turned into run around background ball.
I think a lot of that had to do with MMs offense. Lafleur will scheme Cobb open and get him looks. I was happy to see Cobb leave because he couldnt stay on the field.
Waldo made a good point though, I did actually mean the younger Cobb, but I also agree that Lafluer (vrable)will use Cobb ( or even more so Amari) or any slot receiver better then McCarthy did once Robinson the receivers coach left town after we won the SB
McCarthy liked to think he could take any assistant, give him a 101 class on any position that needed a coach and walla they would become a great WR coach, Edgar Bennet was a very good RB, not so much a WR coach, go routes, he was a tactician when it came to go routes
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Kind of smack dab in the middle. Indy at 65% and Arizona at 35%. We look to be right at 50%. I need to come back to this to see how he is grading this.
I would like to see what 2016-2019 looks like instead of 2017-2020. Or even a 4 year rolling average for the last 12 years. That would be interesting.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Seems about right. Just below Mid pack at drafting, further propelled by some of teds draft picks, further propelled by some well purchased FAs, further propelled by a HOF QB = team outperforms its draft success and becomes a contender.
Unfortunately for Gutey...Teds players are aging out, the HOF QB could be on his way out after this season, and the FAs are close to being ready for new money.
All meaning that draft success will be less hidden and coming into deeper focus very soon.
Seems about right. Just below Mid pack at drafting, further propelled by some of teds draft picks, further propelled by some well purchased FAs, further propelled by a HOF QB = team outperforms its draft success and becomes a contender.
Unfortunately for Gutey...Teds players are aging out, the HOF QB could be on his way out after this season, and the FAs are close to being ready for new money.
All meaning that draft success will be less hidden and coming into deeper focus very soon.
I struggle to see it this way.
The first draft in this dataset is TT"s final draft which opened with Kevin King, Josh Jones, Montravius Adams and Vince Beigel, before finally breaking through with Jamal Williams and Aaron Jones. Everyone else completely washed out of the league, but those two. And pretty immediately, too.
TT's draft in this dataset assuredly brings the drafting average down, not up.
Meanwhile, Gutey's year one brought us a pro bowler by his 3rd season (Jaire) and some role players (mostly MVS, but also underwhelming STers).
His second draft got us a pro bowler by his second season (Jenkins), and significant role players who are still ascending in Gary and Savage, not to mention lesser role players like Keke and however you want to categorize Sterny and Ty Summers.
We'll see what his third draft got us this yeah, as everyone was pretty much a redshirt.
But if we keep going on a pace where each draft produces a pro bowler on a rookie contract, as well as some other starters and role players, we're going to have to stop nitpicking about which pro bowlers we didn't take.
Gutey's tenure and its rating will be entirely dependent upon whether or not Jordan Love becomes a legitimate franchise QB. That isn't fair, but it is what it is. Or as a student of mine once said: It be what it are.
As for the Colts:
2017-2018 --- 4 wins
2018 --- 10 wins
2019 --- 7 wins
2020 -- 11 wins
They are essentially a .500 team. Ballard was hired in January of 2017.
we need interior lineman that do more then plug a hole, and this Kid seems able to do more then that, after talking about Simmons for a week, I'am sorta stuck on the biggy bigs
I brought the whole article cause JS online is subscriber only site.
At 330 pounds, T.J. Slaton looming large
Fifth-round pick T.J. Slaton is looking like he has a chance to contribute as a rookie. The Packers suit up either four or five defensive linemen on game days, and Slaton so far in camp has flashed enough ability to think he has a good shot at being at least the No. 5 defensive lineman. It’s not that Slaton has been a dominating presence, but on most days he has made a play or two in team drills and one-on-one pass rush that at least draw notice. And with Kingsley Keke (ankle) still on the NFI list and Kenny Clark (groin) missing the last two practices, Slaton has been working with the starters in the base defense alongside Dean Lowry and Ty Lancaster.
On Tuesday, Slaton’s best play in team drills came on a pass rush against the starting offense when he got decent push and then knocked down Aaron Rodgers’ pass. Slaton also had a pressure on Rodgers on the first play of a red-zone period. In one-on-ones Slaton went 1-1 against starting guard Lucas Patrick. Slaton is no Clark as an inside rusher, but he has shown a little more rush than you might expect from a 330-pounder. His teammates recently saw a display of his explosiveness when he dunked a basketball on the hoop in the defensive meeting room. “Everybody was 'whoa, whoa, did he just do that?'” Slaton said of the dunk. “So they were just asking me to do it again.”
Packers rookie defensive tackle T.J. Slaton (93) could provide much-needed depth.
One NFL scout I talked to after the draft described Slaton’s play at Florida as a mix of an eye-catching pass rush or run stack against a good player such as Alabama center Landon Dickerson, who was an early second-round pick by Philadelphia, and the disappointments, where he’d get pushed around by a subpar player. That’s why Slaton was available in the fifth round. But he’s off to a good enough start in camp to think he might help the Packers as a rookie through the course of a long, 17-game season.
If these opinion pieces are to long feel free to delete them, but there to good not to share, this one about our OL evolution through the years captures the importance we put on taking care of our QB's,
anyway I liked it so here it is.
Packers' offensive linemen share a standard forged by protecting MVP quarterbacks
Tom Silverstein
Packers News
GREEN BAY - When Billy Turner joined the Green Bay Packers in 2019, David Bakhtiari, Bryan Bulaga, Corey Linsley and Lane Taylor shared with him a standard nearly three decades in the making: to play on the Packers’ offensive line, you must protect the franchise.
In the same way that standard was passed onto Turner, Bakhtiari and the others came to understand it from Bulaga, T.J. Lang and Josh Sitton, who in turn carried it on from Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera and Mike Flanagan.
Before them it was Earl Dotson, Frank Winters, Adam Timmerman and Aaron Taylor.
The responsibility of blocking for an MVP and eventual Hall of Fame quarterback wasn’t taken lightly when Brett Favre was under center and it isn’t taken lightly with Aaron Rodgers doing the same. When the latest group of draft picks and free agents walked into the offensive line room, they became instantly aware of their responsibility.
“The Green Bay Packers, there's a standard for offensive line play and all the older guys in the room let the younger guys know that from day one,” Turner said. “As soon as they walk into this building and walk into that room, there is a standard.
“And that's one of the biggest things that (the coaches) harp on, especially with the younger crowd is, ‘Look man, there's a standard like we're one of the best of the best year in and year out. That is the standard. We are not (expletive) players. So, you need to figure your stuff out.’”
The Packers have a mostly established offensive line going into the 2021 season with Bakhtiari at left tackle (once he’s cleared after undergoing ACL surgery in January), Elgton Jenkins at left guard, Lucas Patrick at right guard and Turner at right tackle. But they replaced Linsley with second-round pick Josh Myers and have six rookies, three second-year pros and a group of young free agents all fighting to find a permanent place in the offensive line room
Coach Matt LaFleur has already tabbed Myers as a starter at center, but practically everybody else is competing at multiple spots, which is a more recent development in the established standard. To play on the Packers’ offensive line, you must be versatile even if playing multiple positions doesn’t allow you the benefit of playing exclusively at your best position.
That trend started with former offensive line coach James Campen and has continued with his successor Adam Stenavich, who played for Campen.
But it’s not just that you’re expected to be able to practice at multiple positions, it’s that if you’re on the regular-season roster you'd better be ready to play wherever and whenever they need you.
Jon Runyan, a sixth-round draft pick in 2020, played at right tackle his final three seasons at Michigan and was moved to guard during training camp last year, where he got mostly reps with the second and third team. The transition to a new position takes time, but during the season opener against Minnesota, Turner was out with a knee injury, Lane Taylor tore his ACL and Patrick was knocked out with a shoulder injury.
Just like that, Runyan was in at left guard.
“Going into that game, there kind of had to be a lot of stuff to happen for me to be put in that scenario,” he said. “And unfortunately losing two guys in that game and being thrown in in the fourth quarter, it’s the first game I've ever dressed for in the NFL.
“It is pretty scary, but I was ready. It was a lot of fun to get out there and experience it. And I think that really helped me going forward.”
For the better part of three months, Runyan had heard the same thing over and again, most often from Bakhtiari, who was thrown into the same fire his rookie season when he became a starter in 2013. Just as Sitton and Lang let Bakhtiari know his mistakes would not be excused because he was a rookie, young players such as Runyan, Myers and draft picks Royce Newman and Cole Van Lanen got the message right away.
“We're about our business, that’s the most important thing,” Bakhtiari said. “I love having fun. I will continue to have fun, as long as I'm taking care of my business. The moment that my business isn’t being taken care of, my phone goes out the window. That's what I learned early on.
“That's what we're teaching these guys, we're going to joke around, we're going to have fun. If you don't know your play, if you mess up on your assignment, you have a bad game and you're out trying to joke around — no. There's a zero tolerance and I'm just going to say there's zero bull---- when it comes to that room.”
Protecting Rodgers can be tricky. There’s no such thing as block your guy for 2.5 seconds and prepare for the next play. Even at 37, Rodgers will hold the ball a long time, moving in, around and outside the pocket looking for an open receiver.
Linemen must learn that they’re going to get charged with allowing sacks on plays in which Rodgers happened to run into their area with no regard for which direction they were blocking their man. Sometimes he gets rid of the ball in time and sometimes he gets sacked.
Bakhtiari, Turner, Jenkins and Patrick know all about it and they aren’t afraid to share tips on how best to keep defenders off Rodgers.
“Dave's a very funny guy,” said Van Lanen, a Green Bay native and sixth-round pick out of Wisconsin . “He is a great mentor, though. He is one of those guys, he's not on the field now and because of that he's watching, especially left tackle, and I'm on the film a lot of left tackle.
“He really mentors me, puts me under his wing and teaches me some tips that really helped me. And a lot of those other guys in the room are really good mentors and really help us kind of do better. And that's what we're doing. I really like our group.”
Last year, injuries caused a lot of shuffling and thanks especially to the versatility of Jenkins and Turner, the Packers were overrun just once in the regular season. They played with five different line combinations and never had the same players starting in the same positions more than three straight weeks.
Despite it all, the Packers ranked fifth in sacks allowed per play, seventh in rushing yards per attempt and second in third-down efficiency. The loss of Bakhtiari before Week 17 was too much for them to overcome against a defense as good as eventual Super Bowl champion Tampa Bay, but they were in the NFC championship game until the end, nonetheless.
During the offseason, general manager Brian Gutekunst let Linsley go in free agency, didn’t re-sign Taylor and moved on from Rick Wagner. He kept tackle Yosh Nijman, guards Ben Braden and Zach Johnson and center Jake Hanson — each of whom has had a year or more to develop in the Packers' system — and then used draft picks on Myers (second), Royce Newman (fourth) and Van Lanen (sixth).
And then he signed undrafted free agents Jacob Capra, Jon Dietzen and Coy Cronk and just as camp was beginning signed veteran tackle Dennis Kelly.
LaFleur called this the deepest offensive line group he’s ever had and said the competition for nine or 10 roster spots was going to be fierce. As he often says, LaFleur will play the five best linemen come the season opener Sept. 13 at New Orleans.
There is uncertainty with Bakhtiari’s status, even though Myers has done enough to step in immediately for Linsley. There is so much position movement that it’s hard to say how decisions will be made on which linemen to keep, let alone who will start at guard on opening day.
Three preseason games will help in the evaluation process and then it will be up to Gutekunst to pick those who best meet the standard set well before he arrived in Green Bay.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Credit where it’s due, coach Lafleur has great schemes
Good point.
However, for this coming season, where do you see his production headed? Ascending or descending?
Don't get me wrong, I like Lazard and I think/hope he makes the roster. I also think it's very possible we've seen his best year from a production standpoint. With the additions to the WR/RB rooms and the focus seemingly headed toward more of a quick-hitter type passing game married to a strong running game, I doubt we see Lazard in anything more than a complimentary role going forward.
Credit where it’s due, coach Lafleur has great schemes
Good point.
However, for this coming season, where do you see his production headed? Ascending or descending?
Don't get me wrong, I like Lazard and I think/hope he makes the roster. I also think it's very possible we've seen his best year from a production standpoint. With the additions to the WR/RB rooms and the focus seemingly headed toward more of a quick-hitter type passing game married to a strong running game, I doubt we see Lazard in anything more than a complimentary role going forward.
Lazard's role, maybe his primary role is almost the same as Tonyan's was last year. To be available for a pass when Adams is double covered. To block on WR screens and to take out the safety after someone else makes the catch or Jones breaks through the line. To occasionally pick up 3rd and short not by getting wide open but by being a big target and out muscling the DB. He is the reason why Adams breaks a big gain on an 8 yard pass or why Jones doesn't get tackled for a 5 yard gain and instead gets a 25 yard TD. This next season I expect Tonyan to be the primary receiver more often and Lazard will be slogging away so that Tonyan gets extra yards on most receptions and occasionally breaks a big gain. Lazard makes everyone else better. It does not show in his stats but it shows on the scoreboard.
