Jordan Love Discussion

[TheSkeptic]

IMO, he needs to play. If he has to play a lot this year, the Packers are not going to the SB. He is not going to win 2 playoff games if he has to start in them due to Rodgers getting hurt.

The problem now is that he will probably still need to play a year from now. So the Packers won't be going to the SB in the 2022/23 season either. He won't have the experience he needs.

If the Packers make it to the SB this year with Rodgers, they they made the right choice in not trading him. If not, they delayed Love's maturation for a year. Also, they do not have the 1st round draft pick that could be on the team now had they traded him, and who knows what they will get next spring.

We will see. Maybe the Packers will be better this year in the playoffs. Maybe it was the right decision - but I would prefer if it had gone the other way, because Love will be the real deal.

[go pak go]

IMO, he needs to play. If he has to play a lot this year, the Packers are not going to the SB. He is not going to win 2 playoff games if he has to start in them due to Rodgers getting hurt.

The problem now is that he will probably still need to play a year from now. So the Packers won't be going to the SB in the 2022/23 season either. He won't have the experience he needs.

If the Packers make it to the SB this year with Rodgers, they they made the right choice in not trading him. If not, they delayed Love's maturation for a year. Also, they do not have the 1st round draft pick that could be on the team now had they traded him, and who knows what they will get next spring.

We will see. Maybe the Packers will be better this year in the playoffs. Maybe it was the right decision - but I would prefer if it had gone the other way, because Love will be the real deal.

Don't underestimate the power of being a backup quarterback and needing to research defenses and contribute in the game plan for Rodgers. Watching the defense during the game and contributing that knowledge to Rodgers.

There is a lot of value being QB2 that Love will get this year that he didn't get last year. I am really glad we have Rodgers here.

[Yoop]

IMO, he needs to play. If he has to play a lot this year, the Packers are not going to the SB. He is not going to win 2 playoff games if he has to start in them due to Rodgers getting hurt.

The problem now is that he will probably still need to play a year from now. So the Packers won't be going to the SB in the 2022/23 season either. He won't have the experience he needs.

If the Packers make it to the SB this year with Rodgers, they they made the right choice in not trading him. If not, they delayed Love's maturation for a year. Also, they do not have the 1st round draft pick that could be on the team now had they traded him, and who knows what they will get next spring.

We will see. Maybe the Packers will be better this year in the playoffs. Maybe it was the right decision - but I would prefer if it had gone the other way, because Love will be the real deal.

the best thing for Love is to not have to play, you saw how not ready he was when under pressure he threw up a lame duck for easy pickings, and the one to high from the 20 into the EZ, that could have been picked too, Love is not ready for prime time, his name is not Lawrence, players like Love who are forced to play to soon are the majority of the QB's that bust, even a QB as ready as Lawrence is would benefit from sitting a season, yep I think Love might be the real deal, but he aint that now, and all you'll do is make it harder for him to become a good QB by playing him, one of the best assets a great QB has is confidence in himself, one of the worst trait is lack of it, and that develops and grows every time they screw up as Love did about 3 or 4 times the other night.

the greatest thing us fans had happen so far this season is that Rodgers came to his senses and stuck around and playing for us another season.

[Drj820]

IMO, he needs to play. If he has to play a lot this year, the Packers are not going to the SB. He is not going to win 2 playoff games if he has to start in them due to Rodgers getting hurt.

The problem now is that he will probably still need to play a year from now. So the Packers won't be going to the SB in the 2022/23 season either. He won't have the experience he needs.

If the Packers make it to the SB this year with Rodgers, they they made the right choice in not trading him. If not, they delayed Love's maturation for a year. Also, they do not have the 1st round draft pick that could be on the team now had they traded him, and who knows what they will get next spring.

We will see. Maybe the Packers will be better this year in the playoffs. Maybe it was the right decision - but I would prefer if it had gone the other way, because Love will be the real deal.

the best thing for Love is to not have to play, you saw how not ready he was when under pressure he threw up a lame duck for easy pickings, and the one to high from the 20 into the EZ, that could have been picked too, Love is not ready for prime time, his name is not Lawrence, players like Love who are forced to play to soon are the majority of the QB's that bust, even a QB as ready as Lawrence is would benefit from sitting a season, yep I think Love might be the real deal, but he aint that now, and all you'll do is make it harder for him to become a good QB by playing him, one of the best assets a great QB has is confidence in himself, one of the worst trait is lack of it, and that develops and grows every time they screw up as Love did about 3 or 4 times the other night.

the greatest thing us fans had happen so far this season is that Rodgers came to his senses and stuck around and playing for us another season.

Many QBs have started week one as rookies and done well. Many QBs have sat for half a season and then come off the bench and done well. Many have set a full season and started in year two and done well.

Many QBs have started week one as rookies and were busts. Many QBs have sat for half a season and then come off the bench and were busts. Many have set a full season and started in year two and were busts.

Correlation is not Causation. Giving a first round pick 3 years before he sees meaning time is one route to grooming the future of your franchise. It is also an extreme luxury. It is not necessary for most. If Love needs a full three years before he is playable, he probably should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick. Players can struggle at first, and then take massive leaps as the game slows down for them. Often, they need those fast game reps because game speed can not be simulated at practice. Sitting another year behind Rodgers and learning will certainly be an advantage for Love, I just dont buy the causation behind your stat about guys that start early bust out over guys that sit. Most guys thrown in the fire early go to dumpster franchises and are thrown to the wolves. Jordan Love needs to get himself ready to perform by next year, sitting behind Rodgers should help him do that. If he didnt have that luxury, as a first round pick, he would also be expected to be ready to play by year 3. Sitting for multiple seasons isnt a magic formula.

[NCF]

[paco]

[Yoop]

Many QBs have started week one as rookies and done well. Many QBs have sat for half a season and then come off the bench and done well. Many have set a full season and started in year two and done wel

please produce names of the many that started day one and done well, I don't think many have, and everyone that did would have been even better sitting and learning a while.

no where did I say a QB has to sit 3 seasons, what I did say is that if they have tech issues or thinking issues that it's better to expose them in meaningless games and there not allowed to become ingrained which would happen if allowed to continue.

game action is a great way to perfect good technique, not a place to learn it, player perfect bad technique in live game action, specially so for QB's, and when fail is compounded by repeated failure it gets into a players head, quickest way to ruin a player is playing them to quickly, to soon, we just spent slot 26 on a QB that needs time to learn, we'd be fools not to allow him the time needed to be coached up and confident in his ability's to succeed under adverse conditions.

Love had a 115 rating with a clean pocket and 2.5 count to release the ball, minus that he was not near as good, threw a few terrible passes and several very low % passes, under real game conditions those mistakes could cost us games, and repeated performances like that will chip away at his mental defenses, I'am glad we don't have to force Love into action now, and hop0efully not all except in clean up duty, we need our offense to cause some blow out wins so we can get him in a few times this season.

[go pak go]

Many QBs have started week one as rookies and done well. Many QBs have sat for half a season and then come off the bench and done well. Many have set a full season and started in year two and done wel

please produce names of the many that started day one and done well, I don't think many have, and everyone that did would have been even better sitting and learning a while.

Peyton Manning, Ben Rothlesburger, Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Matthew Ryan, Cam Newton, Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Kyler Murray just off the top of my head.

Some of those names tailed off, but still produced very good seasons and careers.

Either way can be successful but I agree with you yoop. I know if had my pick, I would rather go the route the Packers are doing with Love. I think there is a lot of value of a person getting to know multiple jobs in an organization to appreciate each role. Love is going to get that.

I too am being recruited by a company to be the eventual CFO but before I go to that level, we are talking about me having various roles in the company for 3 years or so in order that I have a solid understanding of the company and get to learn under a great professional currently in that role before it happens. And honestly that is situation I definitely want. I think the same can be and should be said for Love.

[go pak go]

Correlation is not Causation. Giving a first round pick 3 years before he sees meaning time is one route to grooming the future of your franchise. It is also an extreme luxury. It is not necessary for most. If Love needs a full three years before he is playable, he probably should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I think the bigger thing is if you look at correlation, drafting a QB in Round 3 will simply mean it doesn't necessarily take that QB longer to develop, but instead that QB will just always suck and be out of the league in 3 - 4 years once the league has realized that QB's actual ceiling.

There was a draft chart going around a few weeks ago that showed bust rate at position for each round relative to bust rates in that round as a whole.

QB's taken in Rd 3 has like the highest bust rate (just ask Vikings fans about Kellon Mond who is terrible) of any position taken in the draft.

Drafting players later doesn't really mean they will take longer to develop. It generally just means they will have a higher likelihood of never playing, having a lower ceiling and/or contributing meaningful snaps in the league. Obviously you have your outliers, but overall later draft picks just don't last in the league longer than 3 to 4 years. And that's why they were drafted later.

[Drj820]

Correlation is not Causation. Giving a first round pick 3 years before he sees meaning time is one route to grooming the future of your franchise. It is also an extreme luxury. It is not necessary for most. If Love needs a full three years before he is playable, he probably should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I think the bigger thing is if you look at correlation, drafting a QB in Round 3 will simply mean it doesn't necessarily take that QB longer to develop, but instead that QB will just always suck and be out of the league in 3 - 4 years once the league has realized that QB's actual ceiling.

There was a draft chart going around a few weeks ago that showed bust rate at position for each round relative to bust rates in that round as a whole.

QB's taken in Rd 3 has like the highest bust rate (just ask Vikings fans about Kellon Mond who is terrible) of any position taken in the draft.

Drafting players later doesn't really mean they will take longer to develop. It generally just means they will have a higher likelihood of never playing, having a lower ceiling and/or contributing meaningful snaps in the league. Obviously you have your outliers, but overall later draft picks just don't last in the league longer than 3 to 4 years. And that's why they were drafted later.

No dispute at all with what you say. My dispute with Yoop was just that there are tons of QBs who come in and succeed tons of different ways, including starting day one. It all has to do with the situation they are put in, their coach...and they themselves. I am fine with the plan for Love, but no matter how many years we hold him back before we unleash him on real gamedays, there is going to be an adjustment period for when he sees the game in game speed in real time from behind center. I do feel like many have seriously low expectations for the guy at this point. I am of the position that drafting him has created tons of drama, and he needs to start showing that he is worth the drama. I havent quite seen that yet, but thats okay. I certainly see talent and potential, and he has time to get right.

[go pak go]

Correlation is not Causation. Giving a first round pick 3 years before he sees meaning time is one route to grooming the future of your franchise. It is also an extreme luxury. It is not necessary for most. If Love needs a full three years before he is playable, he probably should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I think the bigger thing is if you look at correlation, drafting a QB in Round 3 will simply mean it doesn't necessarily take that QB longer to develop, but instead that QB will just always suck and be out of the league in 3 - 4 years once the league has realized that QB's actual ceiling.

There was a draft chart going around a few weeks ago that showed bust rate at position for each round relative to bust rates in that round as a whole.

QB's taken in Rd 3 has like the highest bust rate (just ask Vikings fans about Kellon Mond who is terrible) of any position taken in the draft.

Drafting players later doesn't really mean they will take longer to develop. It generally just means they will have a higher likelihood of never playing, having a lower ceiling and/or contributing meaningful snaps in the league. Obviously you have your outliers, but overall later draft picks just don't last in the league longer than 3 to 4 years. And that's why they were drafted later.

No dispute at all with what you say. My dispute with Yoop was just that there are tons of QBs who come in and succeed tons of different ways, including starting day one. It all has to do with the situation they are put in, their coach...and they themselves. I am fine with the plan for Love, but no matter how many years we hold him back before we unleash him on real gamedays, there is going to be an adjustment period for when he sees the game in game speed in real time from behind center. I do feel like many have seriously low expectations for the guy at this point. I am of the position that drafting him has created tons of drama, and he needs to start showing that he is worth the drama. I havent quite seen that yet, but thats okay. I certainly see talent and potential, and he has time to get right.

I guess outside of three throws, I just didn't know what else he could show me in 4 quarters of play with backup receivers and Oline that would make me any more excited.

We saw him connect 25+ yard throw, find the second read (when the first read wasn't great), escape the pocket and run 10+ yards, make adjustments at the line, drive the length of the field in a two minute drill, force the defense to jump offsides a few times, connect on a challenging throw on a free play, not just do the big shot balls like many backups do....I mean my list going in was extensive and he pretty much covered them all.

The fact he was able to drive the ball on all 3 drives against the starters with his backup crew....it made me pleased. Next year, I am hoping for the Packers to compete in either a division title or wildcard spot and being in that 9 to 11 win range as the high end. Then hopefully 2023 - 2025 we hit our window.

Honestly similar path with what Rodgers and 2008 - 2011 Packers were.

[Drj820]

I think the bigger thing is if you look at correlation, drafting a QB in Round 3 will simply mean it doesn't necessarily take that QB longer to develop, but instead that QB will just always suck and be out of the league in 3 - 4 years once the league has realized that QB's actual ceiling.

There was a draft chart going around a few weeks ago that showed bust rate at position for each round relative to bust rates in that round as a whole.

QB's taken in Rd 3 has like the highest bust rate (just ask Vikings fans about Kellon Mond who is terrible) of any position taken in the draft.

Drafting players later doesn't really mean they will take longer to develop. It generally just means they will have a higher likelihood of never playing, having a lower ceiling and/or contributing meaningful snaps in the league. Obviously you have your outliers, but overall later draft picks just don't last in the league longer than 3 to 4 years. And that's why they were drafted later.

No dispute at all with what you say. My dispute with Yoop was just that there are tons of QBs who come in and succeed tons of different ways, including starting day one. It all has to do with the situation they are put in, their coach...and they themselves. I am fine with the plan for Love, but no matter how many years we hold him back before we unleash him on real gamedays, there is going to be an adjustment period for when he sees the game in game speed in real time from behind center. I do feel like many have seriously low expectations for the guy at this point. I am of the position that drafting him has created tons of drama, and he needs to start showing that he is worth the drama. I havent quite seen that yet, but thats okay. I certainly see talent and potential, and he has time to get right.

I guess outside of three throws, I just didn't know what else he could show me in 4 quarters of play with backup receivers and Oline that would make me any more excited.

The fact he was able to drive the ball on all 3 drives against the starters with his backup crew....it made me pleased. Next year, I am hoping for the Packers to compete in either a division title or wildcard spot and being in that 9 to 11 win range as the high end. Then hopefully 2023 - 2025 we hit our window.

Honestly similar path with what Rodgers and 2008 - 2011 Packers were.

Loves first quarter was really really good.

[Pckfn23]

Here is a list of rookie QBs over the last 20 seasons with 100+ attempts who had a QB Rating greater than 90.

image.png (16.23 KiB) Viewed 258 times

[Captain_Ben]

IMO, he needs to play. If he has to play a lot this year, the Packers are not going to the SB.

You probably are right but that conclusion cannot be drawn with certainty, especially considering the successes of younger QB's in recent years. Never underestimate the advantage that a talented, young QB has when opposing teams have little to no game tape to work with. Brady in his first season is the most obvious example. If the kid can ball out and opposing teams have limited information about his tendencies, then we could have a real weapon on our hands. I think he has real talent. I wouldn't count us out if he had to play for any extended amount of time.

[lulu]

I'm pretty encouraged by what I've seen. Keep in mind last years off season was a complete bust in terms of getting any real game experience to further his development.

Not necessarily this forum as I think we're all most level headed Packers fans (except on game day!) but Jordan has huge shoes to fill. There will be a contingent (read: LOUD) segment of the fanbase that will say he sucks because he's not as good as Rodgers. Newsflash, NOBODY is as good as Rodgers. I almost feel sorry for Jordan in a sense. Look at how long it took some fans to turn the page from Favre to Rodgers. Fans wishing Rodgers to get injured still doesn't sit well with me for a franchise and fanbase I generally adore.

[TheSkeptic]

IMO, he needs to play. If he has to play a lot this year, the Packers are not going to the SB.

You probably are right but that conclusion cannot be drawn with certainty, especially considering the successes of younger QB's in recent years. Never underestimate the advantage that a talented, young QB has when opposing teams have little to no game tape to work with. Brady in his first season is the most obvious example. If the kid can ball out and opposing teams have limited information about his tendencies, then we could have a real weapon on our hands. I think he has real talent. I wouldn't count us out if he had to play for any extended amount of time.

Correct. He is mobile and has an accurate cannon for an arm, that can be very hard for a defense to deal with. After 2 or 3 games opposing teams would have more film on him. The team might also rally around him and give 100% for 2 or 3 games. If the Oline gives him time and the receivers get a little more separation than normal, they could easily win a couple of games. I was referring to having to take over midseason, play 6 games and then maybe a wildcard playoff game, that I think would be too much for him this year. However if he had to take over in September, he would be a very different and much more mature QB in December.

[salmar80]

I'm pretty encouraged by what I've seen. Keep in mind last years off season was a complete bust in terms of getting any real game experience to further his development.

Not necessarily this forum as I think we're all most level headed Packers fans (except on game day!) but Jordan has huge shoes to fill. There will be a contingent (read: LOUD) segment of the fanbase that will say he sucks because he's not as good as Rodgers. Newsflash, NOBODY is as good as Rodgers. I almost feel sorry for Jordan in a sense. Look at how long it took some fans to turn the page from Favre to Rodgers. Fans wishing Rodgers to get injured still doesn't sit well with me for a franchise and fanbase I generally adore.

Those wishing for injury are not even at the bottom of the barrel of fans, they're under the barrel, banished from the barrel of fandom as far as I'm concerned. The bottom layer is made of those who want the player to fail, even if it hurts the Packers, just so that they get to say they were right with hating the Love pick... I don't handle malicious selfishness well.

Despite the wasted COVID year, Love does have many benefits few QBs get to enjoy. He will not have any excuse to suck, even to start real slow. But neither should the expectation be "instant GOAT or he's a bust".

[Waldo]

Don't underestimate the power of being a backup quarterback and needing to research defenses and contribute in the game plan for Rodgers. Watching the defense during the game and contributing that knowledge to Rodgers.

There is a lot of value being QB2 that Love will get this year that he didn't get last year. I am really glad we have Rodgers here.

Rodgers himself credits this in his own development.

Love is about to spend a year trying to beat our #1 D. Changing weekly into a completely different team, acting like a completely different QB. Learning the ins and outs of what makes the other teams tick on offense. Studying each and every one of our opponent's QB's in detail.

The starter has to focus on running the Packers offense.

This experience is super valuable for Love, especially since Rodgers knows its super valuable and can help Jordan get the most out of it (win-win since again, Rodgers behind the scenes was one of the key components of the '07 team).

[Yoop]

Here is a list of rookie QBs over the last 20 seasons with 100+ attempts who had a QB Rating greater than 90.

image.png

thanks, I think this pretty much makes my case, 13 Rookie QB's that started and actually helped there team for a whole season, I think if we made it 25 years it would include a few more, still I think sitting and letting the pro game slow down a bit while you develop a little chemistry with your receivers on the scout team each week would help any young QB.

[go pak go]

Here is a list of rookie QBs over the last 20 seasons with 100+ attempts who had a QB Rating greater than 90.

image.png

thanks, I think this pretty much makes my case, 13 Rookie QB's that started and actually helped there team for a whole season, I think if we made it 25 years it would include a few more, still I think sitting and letting the pro game slow down a bit while you develop a little chemistry with your receivers on the scout team each week would help any young QB.

I'm confused. This only proved rookie QBs in their rookie season.

Jordan Love wouldn't be on that list even if he started this whole season. Rookie QBs often play with poor teams too so it's hard for a rookie to be successful just from a team standpoint. That's why I think it's more beneficial to look at whether a QB, who started as a rookie, ended up having a successful career.

RG3 was a rookie phenom. But from a long view standpoint...who cares? It was a terrible draft trade and selection. Peyton Manning was terrible. Yet Manning is the greatest #1 selection in NFL history.