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Packers @ Saints GDT - 9/12/2021 3:25 CST
Moderators: NCF, salmar80, BF004, APB, Packfntk
RIP JustJeff
And a thasoreus.
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which dinosaur family does the thasoreus come from, and how would he prepare me to do the game day thread ? are u yanking my leg now
Packers analysis: Listless defense, lack of run game provide recipe for rout vs. Saints
Eric Baranczyk and Pete Dougherty
GREEN BAY - So much for Joe Barry’s energy.
The Green Bay Packers’ new defensive coordinator has won the praises of his players and bosses for the enthusiasm he exudes in his job, but his side of the ball showed none of that energy in the team’s shocking 38-3 loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sunday.
To be fair, the Packers weren’t ready to play on either side of the ball. Sometimes X's and O's matter, but other times it’s about mentality, and in this game, it was all about the teams’ psychological states. The Saints were hungry and active and played fast. The Packers were not and did none of those things.
It’s easy to pin the Packers’ listless and mistake-prone performance on coach Matt LaFleur’s decision to sit almost all his starters for all three preseason games. But while that can’t be dismissed as a factor, the Los Angeles Rams, coached by LaFleur mentor Sean McVay, also had 30-plus inactives for those games even though he was breaking in a new quarterback, and the Rams opened with a dominating 34-14 win over the Chicago Bears.
The Packers’ flat performance falls on the entire coaching staff — it’s LaFleur and staff’s job to keep the players grounded. But it was most obvious on the defensive side of the ball, where everyone in the front seven except Kenny Clark too often played like their feet were in concrete. The secondary got caught flat-footed and too often was a step slow as well.
Really, the Packers’ run defense looked no better than the liability it was the last two seasons under former coordinator Mike Pettine. Saints running backs Alvin Kamara and Tony Jones Jr. combined for 133 yards rushing on 31 carries (a 4.3-yard average). That was a huge factor in the Saints putting together long drives that kept Aaron Rodgers and the Packers’ offense off the field in the first half, when the Saints built their 17-3 lead.
New Orleans Saints running back Alvin Kamara (41) carries the ball as Green Bay Packers nose tackle Kenny Clark (97) defends in the second quarter Sept. 12, 2021 at TIAA Bank Field.
If Pettine’s defense occasionally appeared unsound because linemen shot gaps, Barry’s defense Sunday simply got pushed around up front. Defensive end Dean Lowry, for instance, was often matched with one of the game’s best right tackles, Ryan Ramczyk, and got worked over. Another defensive end, Kingsley Keke, looked good at times, but at others got his feet too close together, and without a solid, wide base was too easily washed out of the point of attack.
On the Saints’ 7½-minute, 15-play touchdown drive in the second quarter, for instance, Jones picked up 6 yards when guard Andrus Peat created a big hole by moving Keke over one gap, and a few plays later Kamara picked up 8 yards running behind Ramczyk against Lowry.
Among the issues against the pass was Rashan Gary twice losing outside contain as a pass rusher and allowing Saints quarterback Jameis Winston to escape the pocket for big scrambles: an 11-yarder on the game’s third play, and later in the first quarter on a third-and-8 that allowed Winston to scramble around the edge for a 10-yard gain that kept a touchdown drive alive.
Inside linebacker De’Vondre Campbell looked good at times, but he appeared primarily responsible for the 1-yard touchdown pass to tight end Juwan Johnson by biting hard on a run fake. That left Johnson uncovered in the back of the end zone, and though safety Adrian Amos was a little slow to react and help out, the coverage still was Campbell’s responsibility.
Then there were communication issues and slow reactions in the secondary.
Safety Henry Black was slow to rotate over the top to help Kevin King on a signature call in Barry’s defense that left Deonte Harris open downfield for a 55-yard touchdown pass in the fourth quarter.
One of the staples of Barry’s Brandon Staley defense is lining up as often as possible with two deep safeties but then rotating them into other looks just as the ball is snapped to make things harder on the quarterback. King looked bad on that long touchdown, but the responsibility lies with Black. He had to be faster rotating over to help when the safety on that side (Amos) rotated to coverage underneath. If the Packers can’t execute that, they’re going to have a hard time playing the Staley defense that LaFleur hired Barry to run.
King and Chandon Sullivan also showed a lack of awareness when they collided on a pick play that left Johnson uncovered for an 8-yard touchdown pass early in the fourth quarter.
Bakhtiari's absence sorely felt
The Packers missed injured left tackle David Bakhtiari, but not for the reason you might suspect.
Elgton Jenkins was just fine as a pass blocker in Bakhtiari’s absence, but taking Jenkins out of his usual spot at left guard hurt the Packers’ run game. Jenkins is the Packers’ best run blocker, and his athleticism getting out to the linebacker level is a big help to the run game.
If the Packers are to be among the league’s best offenses again this year, they have to run the ball effectively. Their scheme is based on forcing teams to honor the run and keep them guessing whether a play is a run or pass, because the formations all look the same.
But LaFleur had almost no run game to speak of Sunday — the Packers averaged only 2.9 yards a carry on 15 runs, and their long run was 8 yards. Not having Jenkins at guard was a big factor, because his replacement, Lucas Patrick, isn’t nearly as athletic.
You also have to wonder why LaFleur didn’t stick with the hot hand when AJ Dillon picked up 12 yards on back-to-back carries early in the second quarter. But Aaron Rodgers was sacked on the next play — whether the pass was LaFleur’s call or a Rodgers audible isn’t clear — and the Packers ended up punting a couple of plays later. Then on the next series, Aaron Jones was back in the game. Dillon had but two more carries the rest of the day.
Extra points
* Rookie center Josh Myers fared OK but had a couple of plays where his inexperience showed. On a screen pass in the third quarter in which Rodgers had to backhand flip the ball to Jones because of pressure, Myers, in his haste to get out in front of Jones as a lead blocker, didn’t even get a piece of nose tackle Carl Granderson. That allowed Granderson to get in Rodgers’ face immediately and disrupt the timing of the play. If Myers had just made a little contact with Granderson and slowed him a step, the play had the makings of a big gain. A little later on the drive, Myers was late getting off a combo block with right guard Royce Newman and thus was unable to cut off linebacker Zack Baun on a Jones run up the middle. If Myers had blocked Baun, Jones could have bounced outside and possibly even scored a 12-yard touchdown instead of picking up only 3 yards. Rodgers threw an interception on the next play.
* The Packers probably shouldn’t have played outside linebacker Za’Darius Smith, who missed all but one practice of training camp and was held out of practice as recently as last Friday because of a back injury. He played 18 snaps but was mostly ineffective. He lost outside contain on an 11-yard run in the second quarter when he was neutralized by a tight end (Adam Trautman).
WE SUCKED
Eric Baranczyk and Pete Dougherty
GREEN BAY - So much for Joe Barry’s energy.
The Green Bay Packers’ new defensive coordinator has won the praises of his players and bosses for the enthusiasm he exudes in his job, but his side of the ball showed none of that energy in the team’s shocking 38-3 loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sunday.
To be fair, the Packers weren’t ready to play on either side of the ball. Sometimes X's and O's matter, but other times it’s about mentality, and in this game, it was all about the teams’ psychological states. The Saints were hungry and active and played fast. The Packers were not and did none of those things.
It’s easy to pin the Packers’ listless and mistake-prone performance on coach Matt LaFleur’s decision to sit almost all his starters for all three preseason games. But while that can’t be dismissed as a factor, the Los Angeles Rams, coached by LaFleur mentor Sean McVay, also had 30-plus inactives for those games even though he was breaking in a new quarterback, and the Rams opened with a dominating 34-14 win over the Chicago Bears.
The Packers’ flat performance falls on the entire coaching staff — it’s LaFleur and staff’s job to keep the players grounded. But it was most obvious on the defensive side of the ball, where everyone in the front seven except Kenny Clark too often played like their feet were in concrete. The secondary got caught flat-footed and too often was a step slow as well.
Really, the Packers’ run defense looked no better than the liability it was the last two seasons under former coordinator Mike Pettine. Saints running backs Alvin Kamara and Tony Jones Jr. combined for 133 yards rushing on 31 carries (a 4.3-yard average). That was a huge factor in the Saints putting together long drives that kept Aaron Rodgers and the Packers’ offense off the field in the first half, when the Saints built their 17-3 lead.
New Orleans Saints running back Alvin Kamara (41) carries the ball as Green Bay Packers nose tackle Kenny Clark (97) defends in the second quarter Sept. 12, 2021 at TIAA Bank Field.
If Pettine’s defense occasionally appeared unsound because linemen shot gaps, Barry’s defense Sunday simply got pushed around up front. Defensive end Dean Lowry, for instance, was often matched with one of the game’s best right tackles, Ryan Ramczyk, and got worked over. Another defensive end, Kingsley Keke, looked good at times, but at others got his feet too close together, and without a solid, wide base was too easily washed out of the point of attack.
On the Saints’ 7½-minute, 15-play touchdown drive in the second quarter, for instance, Jones picked up 6 yards when guard Andrus Peat created a big hole by moving Keke over one gap, and a few plays later Kamara picked up 8 yards running behind Ramczyk against Lowry.
Among the issues against the pass was Rashan Gary twice losing outside contain as a pass rusher and allowing Saints quarterback Jameis Winston to escape the pocket for big scrambles: an 11-yarder on the game’s third play, and later in the first quarter on a third-and-8 that allowed Winston to scramble around the edge for a 10-yard gain that kept a touchdown drive alive.
Inside linebacker De’Vondre Campbell looked good at times, but he appeared primarily responsible for the 1-yard touchdown pass to tight end Juwan Johnson by biting hard on a run fake. That left Johnson uncovered in the back of the end zone, and though safety Adrian Amos was a little slow to react and help out, the coverage still was Campbell’s responsibility.
Then there were communication issues and slow reactions in the secondary.
Safety Henry Black was slow to rotate over the top to help Kevin King on a signature call in Barry’s defense that left Deonte Harris open downfield for a 55-yard touchdown pass in the fourth quarter.
One of the staples of Barry’s Brandon Staley defense is lining up as often as possible with two deep safeties but then rotating them into other looks just as the ball is snapped to make things harder on the quarterback. King looked bad on that long touchdown, but the responsibility lies with Black. He had to be faster rotating over to help when the safety on that side (Amos) rotated to coverage underneath. If the Packers can’t execute that, they’re going to have a hard time playing the Staley defense that LaFleur hired Barry to run.
King and Chandon Sullivan also showed a lack of awareness when they collided on a pick play that left Johnson uncovered for an 8-yard touchdown pass early in the fourth quarter.
Bakhtiari's absence sorely felt
The Packers missed injured left tackle David Bakhtiari, but not for the reason you might suspect.
Elgton Jenkins was just fine as a pass blocker in Bakhtiari’s absence, but taking Jenkins out of his usual spot at left guard hurt the Packers’ run game. Jenkins is the Packers’ best run blocker, and his athleticism getting out to the linebacker level is a big help to the run game.
If the Packers are to be among the league’s best offenses again this year, they have to run the ball effectively. Their scheme is based on forcing teams to honor the run and keep them guessing whether a play is a run or pass, because the formations all look the same.
But LaFleur had almost no run game to speak of Sunday — the Packers averaged only 2.9 yards a carry on 15 runs, and their long run was 8 yards. Not having Jenkins at guard was a big factor, because his replacement, Lucas Patrick, isn’t nearly as athletic.
You also have to wonder why LaFleur didn’t stick with the hot hand when AJ Dillon picked up 12 yards on back-to-back carries early in the second quarter. But Aaron Rodgers was sacked on the next play — whether the pass was LaFleur’s call or a Rodgers audible isn’t clear — and the Packers ended up punting a couple of plays later. Then on the next series, Aaron Jones was back in the game. Dillon had but two more carries the rest of the day.
Extra points
* Rookie center Josh Myers fared OK but had a couple of plays where his inexperience showed. On a screen pass in the third quarter in which Rodgers had to backhand flip the ball to Jones because of pressure, Myers, in his haste to get out in front of Jones as a lead blocker, didn’t even get a piece of nose tackle Carl Granderson. That allowed Granderson to get in Rodgers’ face immediately and disrupt the timing of the play. If Myers had just made a little contact with Granderson and slowed him a step, the play had the makings of a big gain. A little later on the drive, Myers was late getting off a combo block with right guard Royce Newman and thus was unable to cut off linebacker Zack Baun on a Jones run up the middle. If Myers had blocked Baun, Jones could have bounced outside and possibly even scored a 12-yard touchdown instead of picking up only 3 yards. Rodgers threw an interception on the next play.
* The Packers probably shouldn’t have played outside linebacker Za’Darius Smith, who missed all but one practice of training camp and was held out of practice as recently as last Friday because of a back injury. He played 18 snaps but was mostly ineffective. He lost outside contain on an 11-yard run in the second quarter when he was neutralized by a tight end (Adam Trautman).
WE SUCKED
Not trying to start a fight, but why would you say this happened? You beat the drum all offseason that Rodgers and Cobb (slot receivers) were the solution to this problem that has existed since the LaFleur era began. Why didn't it work?
Maybe they still need some time to gel and I get everything looks bad when you have production like that, but to me Cobb and to the same extent Josiah Deguara, looked completely out of place in the offense. Like we just didn't know how to incorporate them.
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lupedafiasco
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I’m sure some will think this is over dramatic but I truly believe if we don’t see a turn around in defense this season it is a fireable offense for Gutenkunst.
This is year 3 for him and he’s done some good things here and there but he clearly is t the guy who can build a complete roster. Yet again we see the defensive line struggling with Dean looking bad. Yet again we see the linebackers just look atrocious and this has been a problem for over a decade now. Yet again we watch Kevin King stink it up and this is a guy we should have known was bad by now and we paid him 6 million.
This is the unit he decided to wrecked the future of our cap for? This is 3 straight DCs that can’t seem to stop the run well enough or cover. I thought Capers was fine and was given just a dog &%$@ unit at the end of his tenure which was absolutely the case. Pettine I didn’t think was bad either and again did the best with what he had. Barry I do think sucks. This guy has had his shot with other teams and has always sucked. That being said the talent given to him is the same old &%$@. Poor linebackers, poor lineman outside of Kenny.
I can see it now. Love goes on to be successful and it saves Gutey bum ass for far too long just like TT.
This is year 3 for him and he’s done some good things here and there but he clearly is t the guy who can build a complete roster. Yet again we see the defensive line struggling with Dean looking bad. Yet again we see the linebackers just look atrocious and this has been a problem for over a decade now. Yet again we watch Kevin King stink it up and this is a guy we should have known was bad by now and we paid him 6 million.
This is the unit he decided to wrecked the future of our cap for? This is 3 straight DCs that can’t seem to stop the run well enough or cover. I thought Capers was fine and was given just a dog &%$@ unit at the end of his tenure which was absolutely the case. Pettine I didn’t think was bad either and again did the best with what he had. Barry I do think sucks. This guy has had his shot with other teams and has always sucked. That being said the talent given to him is the same old &%$@. Poor linebackers, poor lineman outside of Kenny.
I can see it now. Love goes on to be successful and it saves Gutey bum ass for far too long just like TT.
Cancelled by the forum elites.
The DL needs help. No doubt about it after Week 1. Sign a guy off the street. They can manage it and they need to. The LB's I will still give a little leash too. So hard to blame them with what is in front of them.
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lupedafiasco
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There was no doubt about it after last season.
Cancelled by the forum elites.
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Pckfn23
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Stopping the run is more so a philosophy than a personnel issue. That said, Lowry needs to be off the field much more. Clark played 66%. Lowry played 61%. Keke played 50%. Lancaster played 46%. Slaton played 26%. The average defensive lineman on the field each snap was less than 2... For week 1, the blame should be squarely on Joe Barry for not stopping the run.
It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...
It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
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Pckfn23
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Looking back at it, I think Campbell's performance is getting swept under the rug a bit. 5 solo tackles, no missed tackle, 1 of 3 passes for 2 yards caught in his coverage. For as awful as the entire team was I think that would be what we want to see.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 14 Sep 2021 08:47, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I thought he looked fast and good.
Not sure Pettine got a pass, he got fired.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2021 08:37Stopping the run is more so a philosophy than a personnel issue. That said, Lowry needs to be off the field much more. Clark played 66%. Lowry played 61%. Keke played 50%. Lancaster played 46%. Slaton played 26%. The average defensive lineman on the field each snap was less than 2... For week 1, the blame should be squarely on Joe Barry for not stopping the run.
It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...
I am always happy to think Barry sucks until he shows me otherwise (like tonyan once did when i thought he sucked pre2020), and I will continue to think Lowry sucks.
I Do Not Hate Matt Lafleur
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Pckfn23
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6 posts above yours... Gets a pass. 
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Right now honestly I think the whole team besides Elgton Jenkins sucks.
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Pckfn23
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Pretty much, yep.
I find it odd that one would form a strong opinion either way without much relevant information.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
My opinion on Barry is based on his career resume, with the addition of one game as DC for the Packers. I, like everyone here I assume, hope he has success that forces me to change my opinion. That would be great!
I Do Not Hate Matt Lafleur
KJ Wright was available at LB for cheaper than Kevin King. Guys off the street have been getting scooped up for cheap one year deals throughout camp and there are still some available. It is just negligence at this point. I will never understand the belief in Lowry. No high quality DL would play a guy like Lowry 60% of the snaps. 15% as the starters needs a play or two off tops.
I Do Not Hate Matt Lafleur
That is basically all this forum does.
I should edit my post too. I don't think Jaire Alexander sucks.
And I will also say early signs of my preseason "doom and gloom" of Amari Rodgers may be misguided. He looked good
And I still can't stop thinking about that Jordan Love pass to Allan Lazard. My gawd that was a beautiful throw. Maybe and inch or 2 too high but man when he just "slings it" the dude is money.
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Pckfn23
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So as the Packers DC before he even coached a game it was the assumption that he sucked as the Packers DC. Odd.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."