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Nothing you say here even addresses my quoted statement.
ya, it actually does, you seem to think J should give Barry the chance to prove he's a lousy DC, when he told you his track record proceeded him and he expected Barry wouldn't be good, and according to what I saw J was right, Barry better get his act right or he wont last the season.
Not sure how he doesnt understand that, but he doest...Alas, i have moved on.
Because that is not what you originally said.
I am always happy to think Barry sucks
I find it odd that one would always think Joe Barry sucks as the Packers Defensive Coordinator before he even coached a game.
That kind of mentality really leads to confirmation bias more often than not. Spoiler
See Lupe and Turner.
Did he suck in game 1, absolutely. Will he suck as the Packers DC? Not sure yet, but week 1 didn't help his cause.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Nothing you say here even addresses my quoted statement.
ya, it actually does, you seem to think J should give Barry the chance to prove he's a lousy DC, when he told you his track record proceeded him and he expected Barry wouldn't be good, and according to what I saw J was right, Barry better get his act right or he wont last the season.
I agree that it sucks we essentially get the scrap heap pile and guy we don't initially want and end up sucking in our first outing.
I have been thinking a lot about how a Jim Leonard defense would look.
thing is it isn't just Barry, we hear all the time how Great Johnny Gray is, yet how long have we seen mass confusion in zone coverage, and not just from rookies or mid rounder, but from seasoned vets, I've always been a advocate for off man coverage, mostly because it supports better ability on play action defending the run, but so often it just doesn't, either it's poor tackling or our CB's flat out don't watch the play unfold, and imo thats coaching, to often our players act like Robots, afraid of making mistakes, and if thats in fact the case then we know why our players lack instincts, the two don't mix your not allowed to think during the course of the contest, the thinking has to happen prior to it, and imo to often thats not the case, hell ya can almost hear the gears grinding while watching our defenders.
If we have to change DC's next year I'd change all the assistants too, we've held some of these guys over twice now, and the only improvent is the talent level of some of the players brought in
ya, it actually does, you seem to think J should give Barry the chance to prove he's a lousy DC, when he told you his track record proceeded him and he expected Barry wouldn't be good, and according to what I saw J was right, Barry better get his act right or he wont last the season.
Not sure how he doesnt understand that, but he doest...Alas, i have moved on.
Because that is not what you originally said.
I am always happy to think Barry sucks
I find it odd that one would always think Joe Barry sucks as the Packers Defensive Coordinator before he even coached a game.
That kind of mentality really leads to confirmation bias more often than not. Spoiler
See Lupe and Turner.
Did he suck in game 1, absolutely. Will he suck as the Packers DC? Not sure yet, but week 1 didn't help his cause.
Why did you leave off the very next thing i said in my quote?
I literally said "I am always happy to think Barry sucks until he shows me otherwise (like tonyan once did when i thought he sucked pre2020), and I will continue to think Lowry sucks."
I then said: "My opinion on Barry is based on his career resume, with the addition of one game as DC for the Packers. I, like everyone here I assume, hope he has success that forces me to change my opinion. That would be great!"
This means my working mental model of Barry is that he sucks as a DC, based on his resume, until he proves me otherwise (like tonyan did). You are either intentionally being a pain in the a** arguing over word technicalities and semantics, or playing stupid. Either way, Im moving on.
Last edited by Drj820 on 14 Sep 2021 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
It would also be odd to assume Tonyan sucked. It would be like saying Davante Adams sucked or Aaron Rodgers sucked. Should we assume Jordan Love sucks? I just find it odd that someone would assume a player or coach sucks before they even get the chance to prove that they do or do not suck as a Packer.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 14 Sep 2021 15:18, edited 2 times in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It would also be odd to assume Tonyan sucked. It would be like saying Davante Adams sucked or Aaron Rodgers sucked. Should we assume Jordan Love sucks? I just find it odd that someone would assume a player or coach sucks before they even get the chance to prove that they do or not suck as a Packer.
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
It would also be odd to assume Tonyan sucked. It would be like saying Davante Adams sucked or Aaron Rodgers sucked. Should we assume Jordan Love sucks? I just find it odd that someone would assume a player or coach sucks before they even get the chance to prove that they do or not suck as a Packer.
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
So why not say unproven instead of sucks? Is it for shock value? If so, then why?
I will never understand the need for constant hyperbole from some.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Why did you leave off the very next thing i said in my quote?
haaaa, cause if he did that he wouldn't be able to nit pick your post
I guess third time wasn't the charm. above.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Not gonna lie. I went from "Packers are the best team in the league" to "Packers absolutely suck until they prove me otherwise" really fast.
I am dropping my expectations significantly. Primarily so I don't spend this final year disappointed.
If we win our next two and got 2-1 leaving SF I will likely start to change my mind.
More even keel for me. I would not surprised with a 2-2 or even 1-3 start. I won't like it one bit, but I could understand it. If we drop more than 1 out of the next 3, then I'll be closer to the edge.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It would also be odd to assume Tonyan sucked. It would be like saying Davante Adams sucked or Aaron Rodgers sucked. Should we assume Jordan Love sucks? I just find it odd that someone would assume a player or coach sucks before they even get the chance to prove that they do or not suck as a Packer.
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
hey leave Henry Black alone man, he didn't do anything
I had to read your comment twice, the way you worded it was terrible, lol sticking Aaron Rodgers in there like that was confusing
no one saw Tonyan coming, he went from mediocre to stardom almost over night, the others that 23 mention where drafted, Tonyan was UDFA, big diff.
It would also be odd to assume Tonyan sucked. It would be like saying Davante Adams sucked or Aaron Rodgers sucked. Should we assume Jordan Love sucks? I just find it odd that someone would assume a player or coach sucks before they even get the chance to prove that they do or not suck as a Packer.
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
hey leave Henry Black alone man, he didn't do anything
I had to read your comment twice, the way you worded it was terrible, lol sticking Aaron Rodgers in there like that was confusing
no one saw Tonyan coming, he went from mediocre to stardom almost over night, the others that 23 mention where drafted, Tonyan was UDFA, big diff.
So by that logic, undrafted automatically suck? Again, very odd way to look at it.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It would also be odd to assume Tonyan sucked. It would be like saying Davante Adams sucked or Aaron Rodgers sucked. Should we assume Jordan Love sucks? I just find it odd that someone would assume a player or coach sucks before they even get the chance to prove that they do or not suck as a Packer.
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
hey leave Henry Black alone man, he didn't do anything
I had to read your comment twice, the way you worded it was terrible, lol sticking Aaron Rodgers in there like that was confusing
no one saw Tonyan coming, he went from mediocre to stardom almost over night, the others that 23 mention where drafted, Tonyan was UDFA, big diff.
A. about Henry Black - that's the point.
B. I don't think the wording of Aaron Rodgers was terrible. I think it is more about you having an automatic pissed off trigger whenever you read "Aaron Rodgers" and it not immediately being followed by OUR HERO.
haaaa, cause if he did that he wouldn't be able to nit pick your post
I guess third time wasn't the charm. above.
you took J's comment out of context, it's what you do, and your telling me to read is YOU not wanting to own it.
As I said above, I left off the rest because it didn't change the statement. It's very odd to assume a Packers coach or a Packer player sucks without seeing them in action. Is this hyperbole? Then I would ask why?
I can see saying that I have my doubts Tonyan will turn into a good player or that due to Barry's past coaching stints he may not be a good DC for us. However, I can't see automatically assuming they suck.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 14 Sep 2021 15:43, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
hey leave Henry Black alone man, he didn't do anything
I had to read your comment twice, the way you worded it was terrible, lol sticking Aaron Rodgers in there like that was confusing
no one saw Tonyan coming, he went from mediocre to stardom almost over night, the others that 23 mention where drafted, Tonyan was UDFA, big diff.
So by that logic, undrafted automatically suck? Again, very odd way to look at it.
NO, and stop acting so childish for goodness sake, you know as well as anyone that the higher the picking comes higher expectations, your doing the same thing your accusing J of. mid or undrafted players often do suck, thats the nature of being mid round or undrafted, thats reality and you know it, we marvel at the few who don't suck, and those that do finally produce, but most don't, they always just suck, till there gone, and more go then stay.
you twisted his comment to make it seem worse then it was.
Most of that doesn't address what I said. If the reasoning behind saying Tonyan sucked was simply because he was an UDFA, then by that logic all undrafted players are assumed to suck. That's why I left that part out. It didn't change the former statement about Barry and just assuming he would suck as the Packers DC.
I didn't twist anything, I quoted it. It was what it was.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 14 Sep 2021 15:52, edited 2 times in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I guess I get the Tonyan sucking thing. I would attribute it more to a Henry Black over an Aaron Rodgers because both are undrafted and basically JAGs until proven otherwise. Tonyan proved otherwise (Black has yet to do that)
hey leave Henry Black alone man, he didn't do anything
I had to read your comment twice, the way you worded it was terrible, lol sticking Aaron Rodgers in there like that was confusing
no one saw Tonyan coming, he went from mediocre to stardom almost over night, the others that 23 mention where drafted, Tonyan was UDFA, big diff.
A. about Henry Black - that's the point.
B. I don't think the wording of Aaron Rodgers was terrible. I think it is more about you having an automatic pissed off trigger whenever you read "Aaron Rodgers" and it not immediately being followed by OUR HERO.
could be, I admit I was thinking about two things at the same time
Henry was stuck on slo mo on his safety coverage thats for sure, course that could be said for most of our defense, I expect we'll see vast improvement next week, course not sure it could be any worse, the only direction we can go is up
hey leave Henry Black alone man, he didn't do anything
I had to read your comment twice, the way you worded it was terrible, lol sticking Aaron Rodgers in there like that was confusing
no one saw Tonyan coming, he went from mediocre to stardom almost over night, the others that 23 mention where drafted, Tonyan was UDFA, big diff.
So by that logic, undrafted automatically suck? Again, very odd way to look at it.
NO, and stop acting so childish for goodness sake, you know as well as anyone that the higher the picking comes higher expectations, your doing the same thing your accusing J of. mid or undrafted players often do suck, thats the nature of being mid round or undrafted, thats reality and you know it, we marvel at the few who don't suck, and those that do finally produce, but most don't, they always just suck, till there gone, and more go then stay.
Can I keep this when you and I get into the draft spat of "earlier pick = quicker Pro Ready"?
