Topic Split: Gruden Resigns

[paco]

For all the Fire TT -kinda webpages, the Raiders one got their wish

http://isgrudengoneyet.com/

The real problem there was Mayocks stupid ass.

I am legitimately shocked with how bad Mayock has been. But many have said it was Gruden pulling the strings. I'd be curious to see a Mayock draft or 2 without Gruden around and see if it gets better.

[APB]

Wow, Raiders canning Gruden effective immediately, citing inappropriate emails.

I doubt this ends with Gruden. It appears hunting season just opened.

https://theundefeated.com/features/grud ... abled-him/

The NFL has gotten rid of its Gruden problem. It has not gotten rid of Gruden-ism: regressive sensibilities that stand foursquare against diversity, inclusion and tolerance.

Gruden’s trip to the gallows began Friday when The Wall Street Journal reported that the 58-year-old coach used a racist trope in a 2011 email to then-Washington Redskins team president Bruce Allen to describe DeMaurice Smith, the NFL Players Association executive director. At the time, Gruden was the lead analyst for ESPN’s Monday Night Football. The leaked emails were part of an NFL investigation into workplace conditions inside the Washington Football Team organization. The investigation was concluded last summer.

What we don’t know is how Allen replied to Gruden. Was he sympathetic? Did he chastise Gruden? Did he respond with a LOL? Depending on his response, Allen, who was fired in 2019, should never again be allowed to work in the NFL.

As it pores through 650,000 emails, the NFL should round up the recipients of Gruden’s rants and out them as well. Tell us who they are. Did they know that Gruden held these views? Did they pass them off, as Donald Trump did during his presidential campaign, as “locker room talk”? People like Gruden need an audience. They thrive on friends and cronies who laugh at the racist jokes, who egg them on, who provide aid and comfort.

...We need to know who these people are. How do we flush them out?

...As for the 10 years that have passed since the recovered emails were revealed, in the war on racism, there is no statute of limitations. War criminals should be sought out and punished.

Jon Gruden is gone. Now the NFL should go after his enablers.

As taken from the linked column above, there are those that not only wanted Gruden gone, they want anybody connected to the emails gone, as well. There is a very strong possibility this could get reeeaaaallllly ugly.

[Captain_Ben]

So Gruden is making a sh*t load of money right? And by and large you could say the Raiders way hasn't been successful to this point being in Year 4 of his 10 year deal.

Is this also a way for the Davis family to get out of his large contract and save some money?

Also I haven't read the emails. I probably won't read the emails.

A good question. If I owned a team I would start implementing contract clauses that allow for recompense in these types of events, if possible. With searching someone's online footprint from 10+ years ago becoming the norm, it would be the prudent thing to do.

[go pak go]

So Gruden is making a sh*t load of money right? And by and large you could say the Raiders way hasn't been successful to this point being in Year 4 of his 10 year deal.

Is this also a way for the Davis family to get out of his large contract and save some money?

Also I haven't read the emails. I probably won't read the emails.

A good question. If I owned a team I would start implementing contract clauses that allow for recompense in these types of events, if possible. With searching someone's online footprint from 10+ years ago becoming the norm, it would be the prudent thing to do.

Usually if you fire someone for cause (like something really bad and unethical), you don't have to pay. The only time you have to fully guarantee a contract is firing prematurely for non-performance (where you the team basically buy the coach's contract out)

In this situation he "resigned" which likely also means the Raiders won't have to pay for games he doesn't coach since it was Gruden's decision to leave. Otherwise Gruden could have quit Year 1 and make $100 million to do nothing.

[Captain_Ben]

I feel bad for Raider Nation. I thought Carr was maximizing his talent under Gruden and the team was generally on the right path. The organization had momentum with the move to LV and the fan base was excited. This will likely be a serious step back for them, unfortunately.

Me too. I wonder if the players, or even the fans, should have a say in the decision?

[Raptorman]

This was a hit job on Gruene. Someone wanted him gone. 650,000 emails and only his are leaked? If I'm him, I sue the NFL.. only a limited group of people would have access to those emails. And the NFL knows who they are. Dan Snyder can have cheerleaders posing top less. Where is his punishment?

[APB]

This was a hit job on Gruene. Someone wanted him gone. 650,000 emails and only his are leaked? If I'm him, I sue the NFL.. only a limited group of people would have access to those emails. And the NFL knows who they are. Dan Snyder can have cheerleaders posing top less. Where is his punishment?

OK, if you want to take this tangent then please repost this in the Podium. Let's keep this Gruden convo related to football ramifications and directly relatable social impacts.

[Drj820]

Gruden was underachieving relative to his contract and the wheels were starting to fall off this year, like they fell off last year. Davis is lucky he is getting out of that contract. Wonder what will happen with Mayock. Team will be fine if they can make a good next hire.

[Labrev]

I seem to remember suggesting during the Rodgers controversy that maybe the unilateral power of the league's ownership class should maybe be offset a bit with more say by the players, though I think the only real response was some fear-mongering about players turning every team into a co-op (contrary to what they themselves would likely even want).

We seem to be confronted by the same problem (and solution).

[BSA]

I seem to remember suggesting during the Rodgers controversy that maybe the unilateral power of the league's ownership class should maybe be offset a bit with more say by the players

We seem to be confronted by the same problem (and solution).

And don't forget the fans...we are the under-represented group in all of this- despite the fact that all of their money comes from the fans.
Taxation without representation ? I seem to remember that was kind of a big deal at one point.
Time for the NFLFU, the fans union needs a seat at the table.

" If you don't have a seat at the table, it means you're on the menu"

I remember when I was younger, I used to think there was a "League" ; an independent org focused on the good of the game. And when the old-line owners were calling the shots, there was at least some semblance of a "League"

Then when Snyder, Jones, Kraft and the money grubbers took control, the quaint concept of a League went away and now its just a bunch of billionaires enriching themselves.

Andrew Brandt tweeted about it yesterday:

"Always remember a line from an NFL owner during the collective bargaining process, when I asked him about coaches not liking the reduced offseason workouts in the new CBA.

He said "Andrew, coaches don't make the rules here. We do."
.

[Labrev]

There's nothing ballsy, manly, or otherwise admirable about the stuff Gruden said. It was all garbage and should be treated like that.

I don't generally think employees should be fired for saying stupid things, though.

Personally, I am convinced these emails were leaked so that the Raiders could weasel out of the outrageous $100M+ contract they handed him. Raiders fans generally do not seem to think he is worth what they have been paying him (passable coach but holds this team back as a mediocre talent evaluator), so I am guessing the owners feel similarly. It will be interesting to see if they try to use this as an "out" for them not to pay whatever they are still on the hook for.

Compare the objections here to the allegations against Robert Kraft, who does not seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. This is the reality of Cancel Culture in our capitalist dystopia -- expendable employees get canceled by weaponized identity-politics, yet suddenly we must all learn the virtues of forgiveness and personal growth when business or political elites do the same or worse!

[texas]

Gruden's emails were shocking and offensive, and he deserved to be fired immediately for his actions because racism, sexism, and homophobia are serious issues in 2021, and because typed words are actually worse than physical violence.

jkjk

Idk, I read some of the quotes from the emails, and it mostly just seemed like locker room talk to me, locker room talk in some cases that probably a majority of NFL fans would agree with. I would say the two which jumped out to me as no bueno were when he apparently shared naked images of women and when he said DeMaurice Smith's lips were the size of Michelin tires, although in the latter case I could buy that he was supposedly referencing Smith's dishonesty as opposed to making a racial joke, but I'm dubious. I definitely thought that "rubber lips", as his supposed transgression was originally portrayed, was not racist at all, but saying that a guy's lips are the size of Michelin tires seems a bit more likely to be racial. But I wouldn't fire him as long as there's reasonable doubt. That being said, there could easily have been worse things said which have gone unreported.

But these are still merely words. His actions (which matter more than words) of which the public is aware don't contain any of these themes.

Also, I can see why his emails totally undermine all this bull crap that the NFL is pushing, with words in the end zones and lectures from people who are morally worse than the people being lectured, but $%@# the NFL. It makes sense though that they would want him fired.

Sorry, but I do not find these statements acceptable whatsoever. These were the type of moronic things said in high school or junior high school locker rooms back in my day (which was a long time ago). They were racist and bigoted then just as they are now and should never be condoned in any setting. Anyone stupid enough to put them in writing shows a complete lack of intelligence.

Yeah I mean if I had to pick whether to say them or not say those things, I would pick to not say them. But people need to get a grip. I believe that if we broke down the motivation for people wanting him fired, it would be a majority of: people smelling blood and wanting to jump on a cancel bandwagon, people wanting to virtue-signal (or actually class-signal) i.e. "look at me, I'm a good person because I can identify the cultural sins of others which I wouldn't have pointed out before it became popular to do so 5 years ago", and groupthink i.e. "this is bad because everyone says it's bad, so I oppose it". I think only a very small % of everyone's motivation is actual care for his supposed victims (because obviously the victims of his speech weren't victimized at all because these were words said in private). People smell blood and it's a good feeling to judge and condemn others, especially those who are in "power" who they can get away with criticizing without any pushback from popular culture.

So I guess I'm just mad at cancel culture in general

But yeah, I knew way back in 2012 to not put anything in writing that could lead to this. The gays have only been protected to the extent they are now for a few years, but even back then it was obvious that if you used those words in your emails, it might lead to issues down the road. So that was dumb of Gruden. Sharing pornographic images (which is the only one of the emails I saw which is wholly bad and for which there is no excuse) is also pretty stupid.

[paco]

I sense the Gruden thing will get a move to the Round Table within 24 hours. Should I just do it now, and save the hassle?

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[APB]

The Jon Gruden resignation topic has been split from the Cheese Curds - General NFL News thread. The Gruden discussion will continue in the main forum for now but please continue to be consistent with relating your discussion points to football relatable points.

As always, feel free to continue any non-football/social commentary discussion in the Podium.

[Realist]

Tyreek Hill admitted to beating the &%$@ out of his pregnant girlfriend. Luckily no emails found.

[Yoop]

Wow, Raiders canning Gruden effective immediately, citing inappropriate emails.

I doubt this ends with Gruden. It appears hunting season just opened.

https://theundefeated.com/features/grud ... abled-him/

The NFL has gotten rid of its Gruden problem. It has not gotten rid of Gruden-ism: regressive sensibilities that stand foursquare against diversity, inclusion and tolerance.

Gruden’s trip to the gallows began Friday when The Wall Street Journal reported that the 58-year-old coach used a racist trope in a 2011 email to then-Washington Redskins team president Bruce Allen to describe DeMaurice Smith, the NFL Players Association executive director. At the time, Gruden was the lead analyst for ESPN’s Monday Night Football. The leaked emails were part of an NFL investigation into workplace conditions inside the Washington Football Team organization. The investigation was concluded last summer.

What we don’t know is how Allen replied to Gruden. Was he sympathetic? Did he chastise Gruden? Did he respond with a LOL? Depending on his response, Allen, who was fired in 2019, should never again be allowed to work in the NFL.

As it pores through 650,000 emails, the NFL should round up the recipients of Gruden’s rants and out them as well. Tell us who they are. Did they know that Gruden held these views? Did they pass them off, as Donald Trump did during his presidential campaign, as “locker room talk”? People like Gruden need an audience. They thrive on friends and cronies who laugh at the racist jokes, who egg them on, who provide aid and comfort.

...We need to know who these people are. How do we flush them out?

...As for the 10 years that have passed since the recovered emails were revealed, in the war on racism, there is no statute of limitations. War criminals should be sought out and punished.

Jon Gruden is gone. Now the NFL should go after his enablers.

As taken from the linked column above, there are those that not only wanted Gruden gone, they want anybody connected to the emails gone, as well. There is a very strong possibility this could get reeeaaaallllly ugly.

imo it's been ugly for many years, just never to the point where it would smear the brand, the NFL now has to hang someone and it seems the Raiders have a ready made bigot to sacrifice, there are thousands of Jon Grudens in sports just as there are millions in society with the same attitudes.

this is another topic that has very little to do with football except the culprit is a nfl coach, most of it is a societal issue older then all of us, sad really.

[Pugger]

Evidently the Bucs removed Gruden from their Ring on Honor in Tampa!

[Drj820]

Evidently the Bucs removed Gruden from their Ring on Honor in Tampa!

Well now, men of such high character like Richard Sherman and Antonio Brown should not be subject to looking up and seeing the face of a cretin such as Jon Gruden.

[BF004]

Evidently the Bucs removed Gruden from their Ring on Honor in Tampa!

Well now, men of such high character like Richard Sherman and Antonio Brown should not be subject to looking up and seeing the face of a cretin such as Jon Gruden.

Or Joe Mixon, Tyreek Hill, Ben Roethlisberger or Jeffrey Simmons when they come to visit.

[TheSkeptic]

I am so sick of woke and pc. Its hard to quit being a Packer fan but I am no longer a fan of football or sports in general I watch less and less sports of any type.