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The NFL has gotten rid of its Gruden problem. It has not gotten rid of Gruden-ism: regressive sensibilities that stand foursquare against diversity, inclusion and tolerance.
Gruden’s trip to the gallows began Friday when The Wall Street Journal reported that the 58-year-old coach used a racist trope in a 2011 email to then-Washington Redskins team president Bruce Allen to describe DeMaurice Smith, the NFL Players Association executive director. At the time, Gruden was the lead analyst for ESPN’s Monday Night Football. The leaked emails were part of an NFL investigation into workplace conditions inside the Washington Football Team organization. The investigation was concluded last summer.
What we don’t know is how Allen replied to Gruden. Was he sympathetic? Did he chastise Gruden? Did he respond with a LOL? Depending on his response, Allen, who was fired in 2019, should never again be allowed to work in the NFL.
As it pores through 650,000 emails, the NFL should round up the recipients of Gruden’s rants and out them as well. Tell us who they are. Did they know that Gruden held these views? Did they pass them off, as Donald Trump did during his presidential campaign, as “locker room talk”? People like Gruden need an audience. They thrive on friends and cronies who laugh at the racist jokes, who egg them on, who provide aid and comfort.
...We need to know who these people are. How do we flush them out?
...As for the 10 years that have passed since the recovered emails were revealed, in the war on racism, there is no statute of limitations. War criminals should be sought out and punished.
Jon Gruden is gone. Now the NFL should go after his enablers.
As taken from the linked column above, there are those that not only wanted Gruden gone, they want anybody connected to the emails gone, as well. There is a very strong possibility this could get reeeaaaallllly ugly.
This is a serious problem of the NFL. They are looking back at emails from TEN years ago and I’m sure a few that are more recent.
How are you guys gonna feel with any employer who looks at EVERY personal comment of any nature for the duration of your employment, and maybe even further back? This is entirely not appropriate of the NFL or any other employer. Trouble is, there are too many employers doing similar. This is about the thought police.
Sure, Gruden wrote some things that were likely inappropriate. But now, when there was NOT a clear standard of behavior against him or anyone else in 2011, it’s being held against them anyhow. And his working days in the NFL are now limited because he’ll be wearing a scarlet letter. (Oops, can’t say that one either!)
The main problem here isn’t how Gruden had loose lips or insensitivities. (Those are probably real enough but not uncommon.) The main issue is the corporate NFL acting like they can censor all behavior.
It’d be different if they actually employed Gruden back then and had a specific policy about public discourse. They didn’t. How many people are going to fail the same litmus test? The vast majority. Alas, the head hunting has begun.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
How are you guys gonna feel with any employer who looks at EVERY personal comment of any nature for the duration of your employment, and maybe even further back?
My employer must keep everything for 7 years.
Sure, Gruden wrote some things that were likely inappropriate.
Gruden didn't just write things that were likely inappropriate. He wrote things that were bigoted and despicable.
How many people are going to fail the same litmus test? The vast majority.
Ya... no.
There are some very shady things about all of this, but Gruden being forced to resign is not one of them.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
How many people are going to fail the same litmus test? The vast majority.
Ya... no.
I get the sense you may have been living in rural Wisconsin too long. Language like Gruden used is not all that uncommon online or in larger communities.
Hell, give Dave Chappelle's new Netflix special a watch. Gruden looks like a saint compared to the things said - and laughed at by the audience - by Chappelle.
Yes, it's apples to oranges as far as context is concerned but the reality is, in private, everyday people still communicate and respond in ways that would very likely be considered inappropriate by today's woke standard. That the NFL, and public opinion, are applying today's public standard to year's past private communications between individuals is a slippery slope that will likely get very ugly.
How many people are going to fail the same litmus test? The vast majority.
Ya... no.
I get the sense you may have been living in rural Wisconsin too long. Language like Gruden used is not all that uncommon online or in larger communities.
Hell, give Dave Chappelle's new Netflix special a watch. Gruden looks like a saint compared to the things said - and laughed at by the audience - by Chappelle.
Yes, it's apples to oranges as far as context is concerned but the reality is, in private, everyday people still communicate and respond in ways that would very likely be considered inappropriate by today's woke standard. That the NFL, and public opinion, are applying today's public standard to year's past private communications between individuals is a slippery slope that will likely get very ugly.
First rule in communicating online, nothing is private.
None of what you just typed addresses that statement that the vast majority of people have done what Gruden did. Most people have moral standards and would never do what Gruden did. There is a large minority population that has done that and doesn't believe what Gruden did was wrong or think his actions were just "inappropriate." This is generally the same population that just blames his resignation on cancel culture or some misguided understanding of "wokeness." Bigotry is wrong, period. Actions have consequences. Everyone is entitled to their 1st amendment rights, but that does not mean they are free of consequences.
Also a lot of online gaming communities are toxic. Racism is even a reason for banning. These kids think racism is funny. They don't pull that notion out of thin air.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
How many people are going to fail the same litmus test? The vast majority.
Ya... no.
I get the sense you may have been living in rural Wisconsin too long. Language like Gruden used is not all that uncommon online or in larger communities.
Hell, give Dave Chappelle's new Netflix special a watch. Gruden looks like a saint compared to the things said - and laughed at by the audience - by Chappelle.
Yes, it's apples to oranges as far as context is concerned but the reality is, in private, everyday people still communicate and respond in ways that would very likely be considered inappropriate by today's woke standard. That the NFL, and public opinion, are applying today's public standard to year's past private communications between individuals is a slippery slope that will likely get very ugly.
the problem is that it's wide spread and sloffed off as just locker room humor, the WFT is being investigated for the way staffers treat females employee's, misogyny runs rampent not just in sports but in every work place we know of, same with racism and other forms of bigotry, I hope it's all exposed, maybe it's time people quit communicating as though it's just locker room humor, cause it sure as hell aint that, the more Jon Grudens we cancel out the closer we are to unifying this country.
How many people are going to fail the same litmus test? The vast majority.
Ya... no.
I get the sense you may have been living in rural Wisconsin too long. Language like Gruden used is not all that uncommon online or in larger communities.
Hell, give Dave Chappelle's new Netflix special a watch. Gruden looks like a saint compared to the things said - and laughed at by the audience - by Chappelle.
Yes, it's apples to oranges as far as context is concerned but the reality is, in private, everyday people still communicate and respond in ways that would very likely be considered inappropriate by today's woke standard. That the NFL, and public opinion, are applying today's public standard to year's past private communications between individuals is a slippery slope that will likely get very ugly.
A lot of moving parts in this scenario. Chappelle is a comedian and should probably be held to a different standard than an NFL Head Coach. I am not "offended" by what Gruden wrote in those emails. I even kind of laughed at what he said about Goodell. Still, a grown man using the word "faggot" in an email to an NFL owner IMO is an indication of very poor judgement. It's a red flag to me, not because I think it's "bigoted" but because it was just stupid. Like 23 said, all email is public or can be made public.
My question is, why did his emails have to be made public? Why not just address it behind closed doors and let Gruden cite some other reason publicly for his resignation?
...
My question is, why did his emails have to be made public? Why not just address it behind closed doors and let Gruden cite some other reason publicly for his resignation?
They didn't "have to" be made public. The NFL says they didn't release any to the media, which means someone involved leaked them.
Yes, I know the NFL could be lying and they could have actually leaked them on purpose. I don't really see the motive though.
“We didn’t lose the game; we just ran out of time.”
- Vince Lombardi
...
My question is, why did his emails have to be made public? Why not just address it behind closed doors and let Gruden cite some other reason publicly for his resignation?
They didn't "have to" be made public. The NFL says they didn't release any to the media, which means someone involved leaked them.
Yes, I know the NFL could be lying and they could have actually leaked them on purpose. I don't really see the motive though.
Looking at Raiders forums, folks seem to think a certain owner had an interest in getting outta a 10 year contract (with 6 remaining) with a losing coach who has also failed as de-facto GM... An owner who was supposed to hire a Belichick, but got a Bears GM.
the problem is that it's wide spread and sloffed off as just locker room humor, the WFT is being investigated for the way staffers treat females employee's, misogyny runs rampent not just in sports but in every work place we know of, same with racism and other forms of bigotry, I hope it's all exposed, maybe it's time people quit communicating as though it's just locker room humor, cause it sure as hell aint that, the more Jon Grudens we cancel out the closer we are to unifying this country.
This kind of thinking is a delusion. All the people you "cancel" are not going to just disappear; they are just going to coalesce around their grievances and form a counter-movement.
They will double down and go to war with Wokeies -- likely getting co-opted by the right-wing/nationalist factions of the ruling class in the process -- creating further division among the country, not unity. The liberal faction of the ruling class will cynically use them as a threat to POCs and woke whites for why they need to keep canceling (but not them, not when *they* get caught being racist in the past or even present), and continue supporting their wing of the ruling class.
We will not shun/divide our way to unity, we will only get there by allying around our class interests and moving past class-based society. In this case, it means resisting this expansion of For Cause termination giving bosses yet more power.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
...
My question is, why did his emails have to be made public? Why not just address it behind closed doors and let Gruden cite some other reason publicly for his resignation?
They didn't "have to" be made public. The NFL says they didn't release any to the media, which means someone involved leaked them.
Yes, I know the NFL could be lying and they could have actually leaked them on purpose. I don't really see the motive though.
Looking at Raiders forums, folks seem to think a certain owner had an interest in getting outta a 10 year contract (with 6 remaining) with a losing coach who has also failed as de-facto GM... An owner who was supposed to hire a Belichick, but got a Bears GM.
Davis seemed to love Gruden. Cried when he hired the guy. Apparently the Gruden family and Al Davis go back pretty far. I could see why he would want out of the contract and how this would be how to do it, but he does not seem to be behaving like he is behind it. Just look at his comments from yesterday. He seems PISSED at the league and how they forced his hand.
What's interesting here is that the 1 (first ever) openly gay player in the league was playing for Gruden.
I don't want to assume there were no problems between them simply because none of us have heard anything, but we are five weeks into the regular season since Nassib came out. Very odd coincidence to be fired for (among other things) homophobia without anything of the sort arising organically out of that player-coach relationship.
Also, good call by whoever floated the idea that this was a power-play by DeMaurice Smith. That theory is quite plausible.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
What's interesting here is that the 1 (first ever) openly gay player in the league was playing for Gruden.
I don't want to assume there were no problems between them simply because none of us have heard anything, but we are five weeks into the regular season since Nassib came out. Very odd coincidence to be fired for (among other things) homophobia without anything of the sort arising organically out of that player-coach relationship.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
What's interesting here is that the 1 (first ever) openly gay player in the league was playing for Gruden.
I don't want to assume there were no problems between them simply because none of us have heard anything, but we are five weeks into the regular season since Nassib came out. Very odd coincidence to be fired for (among other things) homophobia without anything of the sort arising organically out of that player-coach relationship.
I know about that, but he's doing this as a reaction to what has come out (which is understandable, he is probably unnerved by knowing his former coach may have harbored views like this against people like him). What will be much more telling to me is if there are any examples he can point to of Gruden singling him out for adverse treatment with no explanation more plausible than his sexual orientation.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
the problem is that it's wide spread and sloffed off as just locker room humor, the WFT is being investigated for the way staffers treat females employee's, misogyny runs rampent not just in sports but in every work place we know of, same with racism and other forms of bigotry, I hope it's all exposed, maybe it's time people quit communicating as though it's just locker room humor, cause it sure as hell aint that, the more Jon Grudens we cancel out the closer we are to unifying this country.
This kind of thinking is a delusion. All the people you "cancel" are not going to just disappear; they are just going to coalesce around their grievances and form a counter-movement.
They will double down and go to war with Wokeies -- likely getting co-opted by the right-wing/nationalist factions of the ruling class in the process -- creating further division among the country, not unity. The liberal faction of the ruling class will cynically use them as a threat to POCs and woke whites for why they need to keep canceling (but not them, not when *they* get caught being racist in the past or even present), and continue supporting their wing of the ruling class.
We will not shun/divide our way to unity, we will only get there by allying around our class interests and moving past class-based society. In this case, it means resisting this expansion of For Cause termination giving bosses yet more power.
this isn't the forum for this, but it's the only one I'am allowed to participate in, but imho the only way to eliminate these type issues is to expose them, shame has been and is a great motivator for change, prior to 2008 these issues, (we all know what the issues are) where small scale and mostly went under the radar, we will never get rid of all people like Gruden exposed himself to be, the investigation of the WFT exposes how normal is was for female staff to receive abusive remarks, unless crap like this gets front page news it wont end.
and we both know why this country is divided, but that topic is reserved for the podium.
What's interesting here is that the 1 (first ever) openly gay player in the league was playing for Gruden.
I don't want to assume there were no problems between them simply because none of us have heard anything, but we are five weeks into the regular season since Nassib came out. Very odd coincidence to be fired for (among other things) homophobia without anything of the sort arising organically out of that player-coach relationship.
I know about that, but he's doing this as a reaction to what has come out (which is understandable, he is probably unnerved by knowing his former coach may have harbored views like this against people like him). What will be much more telling to me is if there are any examples he can point to of Gruden singling him out for adverse treatment with no explanation more plausible than his sexual orientation.
Ya, didn't know if you knew. Nothing more.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I do remember one instance where Gruden got a guy out of the league for his "personality" and not necessarily his play on the field. He would deny it had to do with actual "color", but it seemed to be that he didnt like the "culture" this player brought with him to the field...That would be the African American punter Marquette King. King was a punter of high quality, in my opinion was unfairly cut, and then went to Denver and got hurt. Cutting King was always suspect to me!
