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Agree Waldo Jones was special. But in 2020 if Jones goes down I back LeFleur to use some combo of Dillion, Jamaal, Dexter and Ervin (combined with Rodgers) to score some points.
If Bak goes down I don't see how we replace him, or how Rodgers has time to throw (he needs it) and so our season is likely done.
Oh give me a break, LT is important but not that important. He's not the lynchpin to a functioning offense. This isn't Mac's offense.
And the argument that player X is more important because his backups suck has never been a good reason to inflate the value of player X. By that logic we should be talking Sternberger here soon.
Went bak. I know he had a down year but he is really important to this team. If he went down its bad news. I get the jones vote but it would hurt way more if we lost bak over jones.
Did you see our offense with Williams as the lead back? Yikes. 3 plays and a punt, over and over.
Y'all are seriously downplaying how much Jones made GB's offense go. This isn't like 2011 where you could drop in any back, not bothering to run or needing any production from the back.
Jones is a special back. In 2019 there was a huge hit when he wasn't on the field.
Jones is special no doubt. Special at a position the is the easiest replaced in football. Hes more then likely gone next year and the pack will move on. They just invested a 2nd round pick on a back so he will get his shot. This is not knocking jones I love the talent but again if bak goes down we are screwed. Jones not so much
Williams averaged over 4 yards a carry and had 5 receiving tds. 45 targets and 39 rec. Thats not bad work for a back up
Agree Waldo Jones was special. But in 2020 if Jones goes down I back LeFleur to use some combo of Dillion, Jamaal, Dexter and Ervin (combined with Rodgers) to score some points.
If Bak goes down I don't see how we replace him, or how Rodgers has time to throw (he needs it) and so our season is likely done.
Oh give me a break, LT is important but not that important. He's not the lynchpin to a functioning offense. This isn't Mac's offense.
And the argument that player X is more important because his backups suck has never been a good reason to inflate the value of player X. By that logic we should be talking Sternberger here soon.
Bak has been considered one of the best LT in the league for awhile. LTs get paid bc of their importance. Backs have struggled to get fair value. The league like me disagree with your logic
Went bak. I know he had a down year but he is really important to this team. If he went down its bad news. I get the jones vote but it would hurt way more if we lost bak over jones.
Did you see our offense with Williams as the lead back? Yikes. 3 plays and a punt, over and over.
Y'all are seriously downplaying how much Jones made GB's offense go. This isn't like 2011 where you could drop in any back, not bothering to run or needing any production from the back.
Jones is a special back. In 2019 there was a huge hit when he wasn't on the field.
Jones is special no doubt. Special at a position the is the easiest replaced in football. Hes more then likely gone next year and the pack will move on. They just invested a 2nd round pick on a back so he will get his shot. This is not knocking jones I love the talent but again if bak goes down we are screwed. Jones not so much
Williams averaged over 4 yards a carry and had 5 receiving tds. 45 targets and 39 rec. Thats not bad work for a back up
Packer fans should know as good as any that plus production from a RB is absolutely NOT the easiest thing to replace. Despite trying regularly, we got 2 years of plus production from Lacy SINCE Green in 2004, a nearly 15 year gap in plus production from a RB. Mac could make his offense go without it (flood the field with talented receivers). That isn't the case anymore. Especially when you consider the rise of running on elite teams in the last few years.
The Packers have run 603 offensive snaps with him on the field. Those snaps have added 90.4 expected points to Green Bay’s offensive output, or 0.15 expected points per play. Only two offenses in football generated more than 0.15 EPA per play this season -- the Ravens and Chiefs. With Jones on the field, the Packers are the third-most dominant offense in football.
Without Jones, they aren’t the same. When Jamaal Williams has replaced Jones in the lineup, the Packers have generated minus-24.33 EPA across 337 snaps, or minus-0.07 EPA per play. The Williams version of the Green Bay offense ranks 29th in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers’ QBR drops from 67.7 with Jones on the field to 28.7 with Williams in the lineup instead.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Agree Waldo Jones was special. But in 2020 if Jones goes down I back LeFleur to use some combo of Dillion, Jamaal, Dexter and Ervin (combined with Rodgers) to score some points.
If Bak goes down I don't see how we replace him, or how Rodgers has time to throw (he needs it) and so our season is likely done.
Oh give me a break, LT is important but not that important. He's not the lynchpin to a functioning offense. This isn't Mac's offense.
And the argument that player X is more important because his backups suck has never been a good reason to inflate the value of player X. By that logic we should be talking Sternberger here soon.
Bak has been considered one of the best LT in the league for awhile. LTs get paid bc of their importance. Backs have struggled to get fair value. The league like me disagree with your logic
This is a shelf life issue more than anything. Most backs have a 5 year peak tops then fall off a cliff, which is tough to swallow contract-wise with the way NFL contracts are structured. LT's last longer and don't nearly have as sharp a decline.
I think this philosophical shift towards an offense more geared to run the ball lessens the importance of a pass-protection first OT like Bakhtiari. Both Jones and Bak are due for new contracts after this season, so we will get our answer from the team in due process, but I am starting to lean more towards the thought that the team will prioritize Jones and finds him more valuable than Bak. So for me, Jones > Bak, at this point and given everything we know.
Now that I have said my peace on that, I still don't understand how so few are considering Adams, here. He's the one keeping Jones from seeing an 8-man box on every snap. As much discussion as the WR group has received, you'd think there would be a better appreciation for the one we actually have worth a damn.
I think this philosophical shift towards an offense more geared to run the ball lessens the importance of a pass-protection first OT like Bakhtiari. Both Jones and Bak are due for new contracts after this season, so we will get our answer from the team in due process, but I am starting to lean more towards the thought that the team will prioritize Jones and finds him more valuable than Bak. So for me, Jones > Bak, at this point and given everything we know.
Now that I have said my peace on that, I still don't understand how so few are considering Adams, here. He's the one keeping Jones from seeing an 8-man box on every snap. As much discussion as the WR group has received, you'd think there would be a better appreciation for the one we actually have worth a damn.
If you think this offseason is bad, can you imagine the meltdown in Packerland if a year after the front office (allegedly) starves Rodgers of WR talent it lets his pro-bowl LT walk in free agency to be replaced by Alex Light or some cheap journeyman. Hold on to your butts people!
Now that I have said my peace on that, I still don't understand how so few are considering Adams, here. He's the one keeping Jones from seeing an 8-man box on every snap. As much discussion as the WR group has received, you'd think there would be a better appreciation for the one we actually have worth a damn.
That's the thing tho. Jones isn't JUST a runner. He was GB's #2 receiver in attempts and completions, and #3 in yards (3 behind Lazard) and receiving TD's. The longest reception of the year went to Jones.
Jones as a receiver replaced a lot of Davante's production when he went out.
Weeks 5-8 when Davante was out, Jones had 22 receptions on 27 targets for 280 yds and 3 TD's. That's a 88 rec, 1120 yd, 12 TD pace yearly pace over those 4 games, which is #1 WR level production, and points to some of his undertapped potential.
He completely destroyed the Chiefs. As a receiver.
LIS, he has Marshall Faulk level receiving talent. He can track it like a WR. MLF learned it during the season and tried to integrate it as best he could, but I'm quite confident that going into 2020 that plan is going to be to throw it to Jones A LOT. If teams are going to stack the box against him, spread him wide and pass.
Last edited by Waldo on 30 Apr 2020 10:28, edited 1 time in total.
Agree Waldo Jones was special. But in 2020 if Jones goes down I back LeFleur to use some combo of Dillion, Jamaal, Dexter and Ervin (combined with Rodgers) to score some points.
If Bak goes down I don't see how we replace him, or how Rodgers has time to throw (he needs it) and so our season is likely done.
Oh give me a break, LT is important but not that important. He's not the lynchpin to a functioning offense. This isn't Mac's offense.
And the argument that player X is more important because his backups suck has never been a good reason to inflate the value of player X. By that logic we should be talking Sternberger here soon.
Bak has been considered one of the best LT in the league for awhile. LTs get paid bc of their importance. Backs have struggled to get fair value. The league like me disagree with your logic
true, average RB's don't get paid like even average T's, I think thats where this debate ends though, there isn't anything average about Jones, we barely tapped into his receiving potential with 500 yrds, with a little better blocking and more up tempo passing Jones could easily eclipses 2 K production, in that sense he is worth more then a T.
I pick Jones of Bakhtiari here, but I full expect us to sign Bakhtiari over Jones. That said, we are talking 2020 only, so I am not factoring in who we keep after this season.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I pick Jones of Bakhtiari here, but I full expect us to sign Bakhtiari over Jones. That said, we are talking 2020 only, so I am not factoring in who we keep after this season.
My point was I believe the Packers value Jones over Bak, now. Simply my opinion.
I see the jones backing and I get it and dont disagree. The dude is special. I hope he does get 2000 yards. I think he could. I just feel if he goes down for a month we can cover his loss way easier then if bak goes down. I know waldo doesnt like that idea but it is true. Any back that goes down in this league a team can change their game plan attack and find a way. Of course it isnt going to be as good as rb1 in there but they will be ok.
Now if a top 5 tackle like bak goes down and the options behind him are junk at best thats hard to cover.....esp with a qb like AR. Hell lewis might be our best swing tackle
I see the jones backing and I get it and dont disagree. The dude is special. I hope he does get 2000 yards. I think he could. I just feel if he goes down for a month we can cover his loss way easier then if bak goes down. I know waldo doesnt like that idea but it is true. Any back that goes down in this league a team can change their game plan attack and find a way. Of course it isnt going to be as good as rb1 in there but they will be ok.
Now if a top 5 tackle like bak goes down and the options behind him are junk at best thats hard to cover.....esp with a qb like AR. Hell lewis might be our best swing tackle
Its a close tier for me of bak jones adams Clark.
cant agree with this, we where throwing at 60% a few years back, Bahk was hurt, we put a basically unknown over there and kept on throwing and winning, sure if William or the others get hurt you just stick in another RB, but we don't really have a replacement for what Jones brings
The Packers have run 603 offensive snaps with him on the field. Those snaps have added 90.4 expected points to Green Bay’s offensive output, or 0.15 expected points per play. Only two offenses in football generated more than 0.15 EPA per play this season -- the Ravens and Chiefs. With Jones on the field, the Packers are the third-most dominant offense in football.
Without Jones, they aren’t the same. When Jamaal Williams has replaced Jones in the lineup, the Packers have generated minus-24.33 EPA across 337 snaps, or minus-0.07 EPA per play. The Williams version of the Green Bay offense ranks 29th in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers’ QBR drops from 67.7 with Jones on the field to 28.7 with Williams in the lineup instead.
Hmmm you make good points about Jones, guys. I can be swayed, perhaps.
we all know successful running opens up the pass routes, forces defenses to think about more then just stopping the pass, which if anyone has tried to chew gum and march in time, well lets put it this way, screw that up and it's push up time
when a defender see's jones on the field it cause mental lapse, and to much thinking, thats the added extra with a runner like Jones
My vote was based upon last year’s performance and where I see this offense going this year. It’s apparent MLF is intent upon reducing our dependence on Rodgers and who do you think is going to get more of a load? You guessed it. And with Rodgers’ reduced role, Adams suffers also.
Not only that, I think Jones is still an ascending player both as a player overall and within this offense. He’s getting better, folks. That’s almost scary to think about.
Dillon may get some of those short yardage carries but my money says the Packers ride their soon-to-be FA like the stallion he is.
I pick Jones of Bakhtiari here, but I full expect us to sign Bakhtiari over Jones. That said, we are talking 2020 only, so I am not factoring in who we keep after this season.
My point was I believe the Packers value Jones over Bak, now. Simply my opinion.
Does going RB round 2 not point toward Jones being on his way out?
For the record, i would love the best 1 2 punch in the league and to have Dillon and Jones for a few seasons...i just see going rb at round 2 pointing toward Jones being out the door after this season. Could be wrong.
Does going RB round 2 not point toward Jones being on his way out?
I definitely don't think so. It is being prepared if that is the case. I think we will negotiate fairly with Jones. It would be awesome to get a deal done that pays him as like the 5th-10th best RB in the league.
