Adams Contract Talks Halt

[go pak go]

No way in hell 2022 will be as doom and gloom as GPG predicts if Rodgers is on the roster. It will just be like most of his career here...decent roster with some major holes that he elevates to “playoff team that will be defeated in the playoffs”.

A healthy Rodgers led team with coach Lafleur ain’t going 6-11.

Yeah I said 11-6 but...

So if that's your version of doom and gloom....

[salmar80]

So sad many here seem to have written off #12 beyond '22. The dude could play 5 more years on MVP level, and statistics tell me it is virtually impossible to aquire three HoF QBs in a row. Bait AR to stay by extending Adams.

There are three scenarios:

1) Do cap magic to keep AR and maybe Adams and as much of the core as you can, but the price of all-in is that you simply won't have space for everything. So the overall rosters of upcoming years won't be as good and deep as this one, unless you draft and develop with exceptional success.

2) Try and build the best team ever after a couple of down years: Trade AR and every high priced older vet you can, keep the young core, clean out the cap, draft well with high draft capital, and IF Love develops into a star, even after having to extend him, you will have money for vets and could have a truly league -dominating roster for a while. Or it can all end in shambles.

3) Don't follow fan ideas and do your own thing, one that we can't foresee.

It was statistically nigh impossible to have two back-to-back HoF QBs. Only the insiders know whether Love is tracking in the right direction.

I'm sure as hell gonna enjoy the ride of this season, and the off-season sure won't be like in some TT years.

[lupedafiasco]

Keeping Rodgers and Adams would be completely possible. You just had to not screw up the 2018 and 2020 draft as badly as we did.

[go pak go]

1) Do cap magic to keep AR and maybe Adams and as much of the core as you can, but the price of all-in is that you simply won't have space for everything. So the overall rosters of upcoming years won't be as good and deep as this one, unless you draft and develop with exceptional success.

I was thinking about this. So right now we are likely going to be that $22 - $29 million over the cap depending on where it lands, in season contract performance incentives, etc.

So if we try and keep Rodgers and Adams together, it means we can't save on Rodgers and must find what...$10 million of cap for a 2022 Adams (this means we are still deferring a lot of his salary).

Like I just don't think people get how much of a bind this would put the Packers in. With some rough numbers, we could be looking at about $10 million in cap to the good. Let's just assume we end up at $25 million over the cap after the end of the season (SpoTrac currently says we are $30 million over the cap based on 2022 contracts, 6 million in rollover from 2021 and the cap ceiling of $208 million)

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But here is what we don't see:
1. We have about 30 players under contract with that cap hit....meaning we need money to pay another 30 players. That leaves about $350k per player. Not enough money.

2. We can' resign Tonyan or De'Vondre Campbell. Even if they come at a relative bargain because we simply can't do it.

3. Our entire defense is essentially rookie contract players except Clark, Alexander and Amos.

[Yoop]

but the expecations for 2022 will be very different than it is for 2021. A 6 loss season in 2022 will be a success - no mater who is QB because of what we will need to sacrifice from the 2020 and 2021 "all in". I'd rather keep as much of the clan together.

for the average Packer fan the expectations wont change, most fans only care about one thing, Winning, and they don't care about salary cap, or what it cost to keep stars like Rodgers or Adams, etc.

the smartest thing Guty could do concerning his own job security is to get AR to do a extension, actually just keep kicking the can down the road, resign every player possible and worry about the cap 2 or 3 years from now.

believe me GPG your in a small minority of people that want to right the cap issue by trading away all these stars and start over with Love, hell I don't know anyone that actually agree's with you other then several in this forum.

If anyone comes with a solution to keep the gang together I am all ears.

It's just that nobody has provided one yet.

well several of the beat writers have talked about it, if ya do a 4 year extension and turn a bunch of the money into a signing bonus it can lower his cap # and spread the bonus money out over the length of the contract, there are ways to do this, seriously you seem deaf to any alternative other then this clear the cap at all cost and start over after this season.

[NCF]

for the average Packer fan the expectations wont change, most fans only care about one thing, Winning, and they don't care about salary cap, or what it cost to keep stars like Rodgers or Adams, etc.

the smartest thing Guty could do concerning his own job security is to get AR to do a extension, actually just keep kicking the can down the road, resign every player possible and worry about the cap 2 or 3 years from now.

believe me GPG your in a small minority of people that want to right the cap issue by trading away all these stars and start over with Love, hell I don't know anyone that actually agree's with you other then several in this forum.

If anyone comes with a solution to keep the gang together I am all ears.

It's just that nobody has provided one yet.

well several of the beat writers have talked about it, if ya do a 4 year extension and turn a bunch of the money into a signing bonus it can lower his cap # and spread the bonus money out over the length of the contract, there are ways to do this, seriously you seem deaf to any alternative other then this clear the cap at all cost and start over after this season.

Do the math. It's not impossible, but it certainly puts you in a bind.

Rodgers is making this a really difficult decision and that's a good thing. It's tough to let go. The organization cannot get stuck in no man's land, though, and I think that is committing to Rodgers and gutting the team. I just don't think that is the team he will want to play on next year, anyway, but we'll see.

Financially, moving on from Rodgers is the smart thing to do. Not only the cap savings, but the assets you likely get back in a trade. Every other aspect of moving on from Rodgers is far more difficult. We should be conflicted. I sure am. I get Path A and I get Path B. I just don't want to be lumped in to the Love or bust pile. This is far more complicated than that.

Best news... we don't have to worry about it, yet. Just enjoy the damn season and let's $%@# go.

[lupedafiasco]

People have forgotten what it looks like to not have a QB.

[NCF]

People have forgotten what it looks like to not have a QB.

Yep. All because the organization made the decision to move on from a legend. Can you imagine where we would be if Brett pushed Aaron back to the bench in 2008?

[salmar80]

Keeping Rodgers and Adams would be completely possible. You just had to not screw up the 2018 and 2020 draft as badly as we did.

On the flip side, hitting the 2019 and 2021 drafts, and the cheap players those bring, is the thing that's making even entertaining continued success with AR possible.

And if we choose the "extend AR" -route, Love is definitely a tradeable asset (tho not an ideal pick in any sense).

[NCF]

And if we choose the "extend AR" -route, Love is definitely a tradeable asset (tho not an ideal pick in any sense).

I suspect a discounted tradeable asset. I'll never say never to this, but I just don't see the stars aligning.

[go pak go]

for the average Packer fan the expectations wont change, most fans only care about one thing, Winning, and they don't care about salary cap, or what it cost to keep stars like Rodgers or Adams, etc.

the smartest thing Guty could do concerning his own job security is to get AR to do a extension, actually just keep kicking the can down the road, resign every player possible and worry about the cap 2 or 3 years from now.

believe me GPG your in a small minority of people that want to right the cap issue by trading away all these stars and start over with Love, hell I don't know anyone that actually agree's with you other then several in this forum.

If anyone comes with a solution to keep the gang together I am all ears.

It's just that nobody has provided one yet.

well several of the beat writers have talked about it, if ya do a 4 year extension and turn a bunch of the money into a signing bonus it can lower his cap # and spread the bonus money out over the length of the contract, there are ways to do this, seriously you seem deaf to any alternative other then this clear the cap at all cost and start over after this season.

How much are the beat writers actually saying can be cleared up? I believe Rodgers has a base salary of $26 million in 2022.

So if you "extend him" for 3 years (contract ends in 2024) you can save what...roughly $15 million?

Yes. You could in theory have Rodgers and Adams back. But you then have only $25 million to sign 30 more players based on my illustration above.

That's pretty bare bones. And you would have to figure out 2023 because a lot of people see BIG spikes (think Adams) in compensation in 2023.

I am in the camp of "why hire a really expensive professional driver if you can't provide him a race car to drive"

[go pak go]

Also, this is an Adams thread.

My primary point about Adams is you can maybe have one or the other. Getting both back is basically impossible and honestly really stupid unless they both take significant financial cuts on their contracts.

And we all know they won't do that because their message on that is very clear.

My best guess is Rodgers and Adams are on the same team in 2022 and it is not in Green Bay. My next best guess is Adams is a Packer and Rodgers is elsewhere.

[Yoop]

Best news... we don't have to worry about it, yet. Just enjoy the damn season and let's $%@# go.

yep, enjoy the ride

this team is soooooo close, granted we still have plenty of challenges, but we've played with backups at a half doz or more positions and done so admirably, Rodgers and the offense over came those limitations, and the passing game has hardly clicked yet, I look forward to the day we have all 5 starters on the line, MVS catching half the balls thrown his way and freezing the high safety as Tae, Lazard, Tonyan, Cobb and Amari find space underneath, along with Jones and Dillon I could see this offense scoring big numbers on any defense.

Same with our defense, been missing key starters most of the last 5 games, our best edge rusher for all of them, yet we have been able to dial up pressure with backups, same with coverage, hoping we get all the wounded healthy, in the mean time our backups have gained valuable playing time and they'll be more ready should we need them later, love the way Guty is bringing in established vets ti fix weak positions versus UDFA, they can pick up on a new scheme much faster, heck this new CB is already playing, same with Smith, I imagine we'll see Mercilus subbing in at some stage Sunday, Guty has been impressive, we get a break or two ( some decent freaking officials) and this team could certainly win it all.

[APB]

My primary point about Adams is you can maybe have one or the other. Getting both back is basically impossible and honestly really stupid unless they both take significant financial cuts on their contracts.

Without quoting too much of the past couple pages worth of convo, I think your previous breakdown on the numbers was pretty basic. There are extensions, restructures, resignings, and yes cuts the Packers can make to get both back next year. Yes, there would be some can-kicking to future years when we all expect the cap to grow significantly but, if nothing else, Gutey has shown himself to be not as averse to that strategy as TT was.

Put simply, it's not an easy thing but I also don't think it's quite as dire as you portray things.

[Yoop]

Also, this is an Adams thread.

My primary point about Adams is you can maybe have one or the other. Getting both back is basically impossible and honestly really stupid unless they both take significant financial cuts on their contracts.

And we all know they won't do that because their message on that is very clear.

My best guess is Rodgers and Adams are on the same team in 2022 and it is not in Green Bay. My next best guess is Adams is a Packer and Rodgers is elsewhere.

I think it was Demosky, he said extend Rodgers four years, which will make his contract 5 more seasons, something about back loading contract with 50 mil. as signing bonus, so he only counts about 10 mil next year, I think he said we wouldn't be able to keep Adams.
obviously I'd think if thats the case we'd use a high pick on a WR, maybe a high and mid rounder since we might lose Lazard or MVS, it's time to rebuild that position anyway no matter what happens with Rodgers.

just my opinion, Guty like Thompson, like Wolf are not into rebuilding, hell Ted would not have moved on with Farve to Rodgers that season, in fact they did just about anything to appease Favre, it'll be the same with Rodgers, if Rodgers decides to stay Guty will do whatever he has to to make it happen, but we'll see what happens, hell if we win a SB Rodgers just might retire

[go pak go]

My primary point about Adams is you can maybe have one or the other. Getting both back is basically impossible and honestly really stupid unless they both take significant financial cuts on their contracts.

Without quoting too much of the past couple pages worth of convo, I think your previous breakdown on the numbers was pretty basic. There are extensions, restructures, resignings, and yes cuts the Packers can make to get both back next year. Yes, there would be some can-kicking to future years when we all expect the cap to grow significantly but, if nothing else, Gutey has shown himself to be not as averse to that strategy as TT was.

Put simply, it's not an easy thing but I also don't think it's quite as dire as you portray things.

I knew this would get brought up.

Money and math are things we can make up to a degree. Accounting is a thing you can manipulate to a point.

It is impossible for anyone to predict in the future of what the Packers or players will do/want, etc. Of course my simple illustration is not the final answer. But my illustration is very important in showing that margins are really tight and they are tight because the Packers already went heavy in 2019 - 2021. Our rosters are loaded and we have been the best team in the league for this long for a reason. We are paying for it. We have pushed expenses into future years and 2022 is really the first year we have invoices come due.

Could we do creative accounting and generate more cap liabilities on the balance sheet rather than recognize the expense? Some (though not as much as I think people assume we can).

But just like in real life, at some point you can't defer anymore and you have to make decisions. The illustration I pointed out shows from a material standpoint, we will have to make decisions.

The Packers 2022 salary cap issue is down to one basic principal. A large portion of our 2022 cap is allocated for 2020 and 2021 player expenses that got pushed into 2022. You can't "restructure" that because it is expense that needs to recognized for money paid out two years ago.

I know there ways to increase my available 2022 cap number higher than $10 million (I mean vet minimum is like $800k so the Packers literally couldn't fill a team if they couldn't) but when I say the 2022 Packers has to significantly reduce name recognition, player value, and cost, my assertion there is right.

And I don't get how people reading my posts think I'm doom and gloom. I keep saying I think the 2022 Packers can be a 11-6 football team and compete for the North. If anything, the Packers winning in 2021 despite our below average air attack has made me even more bullish on the future Packers.

[go pak go]

Also, this is an Adams thread.

My primary point about Adams is you can maybe have one or the other. Getting both back is basically impossible and honestly really stupid unless they both take significant financial cuts on their contracts.

And we all know they won't do that because their message on that is very clear.

My best guess is Rodgers and Adams are on the same team in 2022 and it is not in Green Bay. My next best guess is Adams is a Packer and Rodgers is elsewhere.

I think it was Demosky, he said extend Rodgers four years, which will make his contract 5 more seasons, something about back loading contract with 50 mil. as signing bonus, so he only counts about 10 mil next year, I think he said we wouldn't be able to keep Adams.
obviously I'd think if thats the case we'd use a high pick on a WR, maybe a high and mid rounder since we might lose Lazard or MVS, it's time to rebuild that position anyway no matter what happens with Rodgers.

just my opinion, Guty like Thompson, like Wolf are not into rebuilding, hell Ted would not have moved on with Farve to Rodgers that season, in fact they did just about anything to appease Favre, it'll be the same with Rodgers, if Rodgers decides to stay Guty will do whatever he has to to make it happen, but we'll see what happens, hell if we win a SB Rodgers just might retire

Yeah so Bob Demovsky is saying the same thing i am. Can have either or but not both.

[Yoop]

And I don't get how people reading my posts think I'm doom and gloom. I keep saying I think the 2022 Packers can be a 11-6 football team and compete for the North. If anything, the Packers winning in 2021 despite our below average air attack has made me even more bullish on the future Packers.

well our below average areal attack has produced 12 TD's while we've run for 4, seems the run is moving the chains but Rodgers though struggling in the red zone is still a big part of the scoring, so to think LOve will still add enough with our run game to produce a 11-6 season is a tough bet for me.

[Drj820]

Rodgers is under contract in 2022. Adams is not under contract in 2022. Because we most likely do not have the salary cap space to keep both, I know who it makes more sense to let walk. Hint: the guy not under contract in 2022.

[Foosball]

Rodgers is under contract in 2022. Adams is not under contract in 2022. Because we most likely do not have the salary cap space to keep both, I know who it makes more sense to let walk. Hint: the guy not under contract in 2022.

Part of Rodgers staying with the Packers was trading for Cobb. What do you think Rodgers will do if they let Adams go?

It makes sense to trade AR if they could get 2 1st round picks and a 2nd (may have to give up a 4th). That leaves cap room to resign Adams, Campbell, and get Jaire a new contract. Plus a few other players.

The idea of trading Love is ludicrous. Gute went out on a limb to draft him. He will want to give Jordan a chance to develop and prove himself. They wouldn’t get much in a trade because he is not shown anything yet.

Or they could put bring everyone back and put themselves in cap hell. I don’t see Murphy letting that happen. Remember we’re not just dealing with Aaron Rodgers ego but Gute’s and Murphy’s too. I don’t think they were happy with the position AR put them in and do they want to go through that every year?

The writing on the wall reads that Rodgers is gone after this season.