Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST

[YoHoChecko]

heres some PFF grades

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/packers-pf ... 30876.html

"Jenkins allowed only one pressure to All-Pro edge rusher Chandler Jones over 40 pass-blocking snaps."

"Runyan gave up three pressures, including the quarterback hit on Aaron Rodgers on his first touchdown pass. He was the lowest-graded pass-blocker."

Seems really strange to count a roughing the passer for a late hit on the QB as "giving up a QB hit" but ok

[Labrev]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

[go pak go]

I had 30 mins to sleep before work, finagled a short work day, got a nap in.

I'm still not fully settled down.

If you're an idiot, or have 5 seconds of time like the national media has on one game, you can make this sound so simple: Aaron Rodgers beat the Arizona Cardinals.

Dig not even an inch, but just a millimeter deep, about this much ".", and you'll find a team win. And Aaron Rodgers is a part of the team. Not the team.

National media just doesn't have the time to get into it, just as they only had time to mention Davante Adams as our important injuries -list.

Oh they have the time. They are just lazy and simply choose not to talk about it.

If even 2 of those insane plays I mentioned happened on defense and this game is not close...then the narrative starts to change because the national media knows the audience will see the top stat lines of low Cardinal points and less than 200 yards offense.

[Yoop]

Andy Herman made the argument that Jones's vision, slipperiness, and ability to get skinny make him a better candidate for goalline situations than Dillon and I figure LaFleur probably thinks similarly.

Andy and I usually agree on most subjects

[salmar80]

I don't blame AR for "wasting" the time outs this time. He had a high workload with this group players. Sacks and INTs do way more damage than wasted time outs.

[YoHoChecko]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and [mention]go pak go[/mention] are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning despite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for sticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

[YoHoChecko]

I don't blame AR for "wasting" the time outs this time. He had a high workload with this group players. Sacks and INTs do way more damage than wasted time outs.

Strong disagree. You take a timeout to avoid a delay of game in the 4th quarter of a close game, that is a major error. Like bigtime impact on your ability to win the game. MUCH more impactful than, say, 5 yards on 1st and 10, which is when one timeout was used.

[go pak go]

I don't blame AR for "wasting" the time outs this time. He had a high workload with this group players. Sacks and INTs do way more damage than wasted time outs.

Strong disagree. You take a timeout to avoid a delay of game in the 4th quarter of a close game, that is a major error. Like bigtime impact on your ability to win the game. MUCH more impactful than, say, 5 yards on 1st and 10, which is when one timeout was used.

I understood the first 2 TO's because they were on major 3rd downs. Plays that have to be converted to win. The last TO we took in the game came on 1st and 10 after a simple Aaron Jones run.

Literally zero excuse for that.

[go pak go]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning despite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for sticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

Yup. And I think our even larger point is this win should be about the Packers. Not about Rodgers.

And yet, as expected, the post game talk is about Rodgers which is really sad in my mind because this game was not about him.

[Yoop]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning desite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for ticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

who said Rodgers should be front running for MVP???? I have not seen that, at least not from any respectable source, and I disagree with you completely when it comes to Rodgers not playing a good game, lis your description of what went wrong on the delay is oblivious to what went on between Matt and Rodgers during the clock run down.


I came here hoping to celebrate a great team victory, what do I see, You again bitching about Rodgers.

[salmar80]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning desite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for ticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

If I had to hazard a guess, Here's Johnny was born out of games like this. Where the usual stars didn't shine so blindingly bright as to make most of the team background noise.

Where you needed those Rasuls, Dillons, Campbells, Lowrys in order to win. Where likes of Gary got no sacks, no fanfare, but a great running QB had 21 yards rushing and 2 INTs against us.

[go pak go]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning desite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for ticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

who said Rodgers should be front running for MVP???? I have not seen that, at least not from any respectable source, and I disagree with you completely when it comes to Rodgers not playing a good game, lis your description of what went wrong on the delay is oblivious to what went on between Matt and Rodgers during the clock run down.


I came here hoping to celebrate a great team victory, what do I see, You again bitching about Rodgers.

You didn't see it because you started reading our responses only this morning and didn't go back a few pages to see what we were responding to.

[Yoop]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning despite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for sticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

Yup. And I think our even larger point is this win should be about the Packers. Not about Rodgers.

And yet, as expected, the post game talk is about Rodgers which is really sad in my mind because this game was not about him.

come on wtf do you expect, seriously when isn't the talk about the winning QB? doesn't matter the team, and most of the time Rodgers deserves the adoration, get over it.

[go pak go]

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning despite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for sticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

Yup. And I think our even larger point is this win should be about the Packers. Not about Rodgers.

And yet, as expected, the post game talk is about Rodgers which is really sad in my mind because this game was not about him.

come on wtf do you expect, seriously when isn't the talk about the winning QB? doesn't matter the team, and most of the time Rodgers deserves the adoration, get over it.

but not today.

[YoHoChecko]

seriously when isn't the talk about the winning QB? doesn't matter the team

You're right. The talk almost always IS about the QBs. That is literally the dynamic we are complaining about. I am complaining about the way people typically respond, on a fan basis including posters here, and on a national news coverage basis, and I am using the specifics of a game like last night to indicate why it's so wrong-headed for the status quo of post-game reactions to be maintained. Like that's the POINT of these posts.

[go pak go]

seriously when isn't the talk about the winning QB? doesn't matter the team

You're right. The talk almost always IS about the QBs. That is literally the dynamic we are complaining about. I am complaining about the way people typically respond, on a fan basis including posters here, and on a national news coverage basis, and I am using the specifics of a game like last night to indicate why it's so wrong-headed for the status quo of post-game reactions to be maintained. Like that's the POINT of these posts.

I'll add it one step further. What frustrates me is the "credit to winning QB" but then complete defense of legend QB when they lose and it's everyone elses's fault.

I understand some equity is built when you become a legend QB. But the fear of criticism and then the gang of defenders who jump on one who criticizes is ridiculous.

I get frustrated that the only time we talk about lesser positions and lesser players is when they don't play well enough and are part of the cause of costing a game. But when they do really well...like last night, there was the initial urge to by-pass that.

This is a DAMN good football team. And I just revel in how good this team can actually be once we get our Oline back (giving Rodgers time) and Jaw and Z back on defense.

I mean seriously. If this offense becomes efficient and starts scoring in bunches which then allows our pass rushers to get after the QB who then has to throw the ball quick to our DBs who are really good at contesting plays and making INTs...

...these are the ingredients of beating even good teams by more than 24 points and being like whoah...these guys are untouchable.

[Bogey]

Rick@Bogey , did he talk to you?!

Oddly enough, he didn’t. Maybe because I wasn’t in Phoenix. Yeah that’s it. I’m sure he’ll give me the talk now that he’s back in town.

[YoHoChecko]

This is a DAMN good football team. And I just revel in how good this team can actually be once we get our Oline back (giving Rodgers time) and Jaw and Z back on defense.

I mean seriously. If this offense becomes efficient and starts scoring in bunches which then allows our pass rushers to get after the QB who then has to throw the ball quick to our DBs who are really good at contesting plays and making INTs...

...these are the ingredients of beating even good teams by more than 24 points and being like whoah...these guys are untouchable.

Yeah, the "all in" year is great in that it has urgency on the annual scale--this YEAR has to be it...

...but in other ways it provides a lack of urgency to push early on. You take it one week at a time, but in terms of putting the TEAM together and building toward something, we are building TOWARD an endpoint. So we are getting through what we need to get through (and winning), while taking our time incorporating pieces into the mix little by little, a handful of Jaylon Smith snaps, a couple dozen Mercilus snaps, a PS signing of Rasul, a cautious approach to injured players like MVS and Bakhtiari.

Knowing we need the trophy this year while also winning at less than full strength, has allowed us to really ensure we are doing everything possible to set this team up to PEAK later in the year rather than earlier. It's been a joy to watch it unfold.

And heck, I'll say it.

HAIL Gutey. Like not good, but great GM. Sorry not sorry. His guys are crushing it out there. He brought us Jaire. He brought us Z. He brought us Gary. He brought us Dillon.

But he also brought us the depth that allowed us to endure those absences. He brought us Rasul. He brought us Mercilus. He gets only partial credit for Cobb, since that was a Rodgers move, but he also mended the Rodgers situation just enough to see Rodgers come back and have one demand acquiesced to.

[salmar80]

Rodgers's play definitely suffered from the subpar group of WRs we had to trot out there last night. Absolutely, no question.

But last night is the exception, not the norm.

Oh 100%

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

That's it. I am evaluating how last night went and how people are perceiving it. I am seeing a lot of credit going to Rodgers for "winning desite the adversity," and all I'm saying was that this game was won by SO MANY people and Rodgers' role was intentionally minimized because the coach correctly evaluated that it would be very difficult for Rodgers to do his normal job last night under the circumstances.

I'm simply not willing to give Rodgers extra credit for ticking to a gameplan that reduced the importance of his individual performance. That is literally how lesser QBs have to play their whole careers, because they're not good enough to do what Rodgers normally can do.

who said Rodgers should be front running for MVP???? I have not seen that, at least not from any respectable source, and I disagree with you completely when it comes to Rodgers not playing a good game, lis your description of what went wrong on the delay is oblivious to what went on between Matt and Rodgers during the clock run down.


I came here hoping to celebrate a great team victory, what do I see, You again bitching about Rodgers.

Then celebrate a great TEAM victory!

This wasn't AR's finest game. By any stretch. He didn't win it on his own. So celebrate the TEAM that won it, which includes him! I does no harm to recognize other Packers deserving of praise.

The overblown QB worship is SO disrespectful for all the players and the coaches on the rest of the team. I don't think [mention]Yoop[/mention] even realizes it, but he's indirectly dissing all the players who work hard and contribute so much.

Yoop, you wanna "come in to celebrate a great team victory". Then come in and celebrate a great team victory. Not a great Aaron Rodgers victory!

[Yoop]

seriously when isn't the talk about the winning QB? doesn't matter the team

You're right. The talk almost always IS about the QBs. That is literally the dynamic we are complaining about. I am complaining about the way people typically respond, on a fan basis including posters here, and on a national news coverage basis, and I am using the specifics of a game like last night to indicate why it's so wrong-headed for the status quo of post-game reactions to be maintained. Like that's the POINT of these posts.

Labrev is the only post I saw that said Rodgers may have jumped Murry for MVP ( and he out played Murry last night), so who are all these posters here bragging up Rodgers?

I rarely ever come in after a game and brag about Rodgers, most of the time I'am defending his play as you pick it apart as though he is some average QB, your just the opposite of the media.