Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST

[go pak go]

That Tonyan throw is weird to me. Like it looks like an amazing throw because he had to have a throwing lane. But then when I keep seeing the replay I'm like, "did he make that unnecessarily harder than it needed to be?"

It was a great grab by Bobert.

[salmar80]

KInda makes sense also missing oline

So shouldn't it be more about the RBs then who actually produced the production?

When one recognizes the absolute importance of the QB position in the NFL, and how much it directly impacts wins and losses...it does not also diminish the contributions of other positions. Even on run plays, Aaron Rodgers played a role in whether it was going to be a run or not. Lafleur has even told us he gives Rodgers two plays and lets him choose. So yes, Rodgers had a positive impact on the run game last night.

And that does nothing to diminish the efforts of the running backs...just dont expect Aj Dillon who had 0 tds and under 100 yards to be in MVP conversations this afternoon. Just not how it works.

QBs who win get paid, QBs who lose become unemployed. Thats not always fair. QBs who win without a starting C, LT, 3 WRs, and TE1...wake up and get debated about for MVP throughout the week.

Just how it works.

That's why we have Here's Johnny instead of Here's MVP!

Would be the most boring competition ever.

[Drj820]

So shouldn't it be more about the RBs then who actually produced the production?

When one recognizes the absolute importance of the QB position in the NFL, and how much it directly impacts wins and losses...it does not also diminish the contributions of other positions. Even on run plays, Aaron Rodgers played a role in whether it was going to be a run or not. Lafleur has even told us he gives Rodgers two plays and lets him choose. So yes, Rodgers had a positive impact on the run game last night.

And that does nothing to diminish the efforts of the running backs...just dont expect Aj Dillon who had 0 tds and under 100 yards to be in MVP conversations this afternoon. Just not how it works.

QBs who win get paid, QBs who lose become unemployed. Thats not always fair. QBs who win without a starting C, LT, 3 WRs, and TE1...wake up and get debated about for MVP throughout the week.

Just how it works.

100% our RBS had a great game. But so did our QB - especially considering his line, wrs and the competition

exactly. Confidently stating that 90% of league Qbs lose the game last night does absolutely nothing to diminish the performance of the RBs. Its just that even with 3 WRs out, the cards respected the pass some BECAUSE of Aaron Rodgers at QB. Most defenses probably just put 9 in the box the entire game when facing a team with no WR1-3.

Thats the Aaron Rodgers Effect.

[Backthepack4ever]

Few things.

Sorry GPG I was mia today. Checking in just for you . (I also picked a packer win)

I dont want to hear our OL might be the worst in the league. What an awful take. I mean really?? They were way better then the 7-1 cards last night. With 2 starters missing they are still decent.

Great team win last night. The mental toughness of This group is top notch. They have 1 goal this year and they are as go as any to get that done.

D played great. Got pressure from all over. Mean Dean has been good the last month. Gary may have had his 1st down game and was still good. Getting 2 studs back will make this unit scary.

O had its struggles to be expected but man the backs went hard. They were the hammer. What an effort all around. Some mistakes but overall they did enough. AZ has held 4 teams under 20 this year. Packers controled the clock and trenches

The bucs are still the monster under the bed bc they are strong on both lines. We can beat them but thats our comp. No other team scares me..... Like at all

I still think GB can be a player before the trade deadline. I could see a wr or te added to the mix. Cooks would require some money moved around but wow him in this group would match TB threats.

[APB]

Just to be clear, myself and @go pak go are literally only knocking Rodgers down a peg to rebutt those who said he "played a great game" or "should be the frontrunner for MVP now"

I was just gonna let this side discussion go for the sake of enjoying the big win but you (and [mention]go pak go[/mention]) can't seem to stop talking about it. It's like you're trying to convince yourself of your own opinion.

And for the record, I (nor anybody else that I recall reading) are saying Rodgers "played a great game" or "should be MVP frontrunner after last night's performance" nonsense. What I did specifically refute is your characterization of Rodgers play as pedestrian, average, regular, etc. Forgive me, I no longer recall your exact term(s) and don't care enough to go back and look.

Rodgers executed a gameplan that admittedly focused away from the passing game. Nobody is refuting that. But he also was instrumental in getting guys lined up (or or at least trying to in some cases), he delivered some very timely and accurate balls to receivers at clutch times, he made calls at the line maximizing what the defense was giving, and he was the consummate leader.

This, mind you, working on a short week on the road with players he likely had zero practice reps with due to advanced Covid protocols and likely very few practice reps prior to this week. Malik Taylor? Juwan Winfree? Josiah Deguara? Even EQ? We're talking guys that maybe get a handful of 1st team reps on a good week. Already out his top 3 WRs, he then loses Tonyan in the 3rd quarter and still leads the offense to victory. I say led the offense to victory because I firmly believe that Jones TD was indeed a TD and the review officials had no business overturning it. But whatevs.

Did he make mistakes? Absolutely. Should we be focusing on praising him today? Absolutely not. But to say any ol' QB could have engineered that win last night - I believe you used Matty Ice and Tannehill as examples - is ludicrous. When have either of those two showed the fortitude to lead their teams to wins facing odds similar to last night?

Now this tangent isn't important enough for me to continue to ruin what should be celebratory discussion today. You believe any run-of-the-mill QB could've pulled off what Rodgers and the offense pulled off last night - I do not. Adamantly so.

[YoHoChecko]

He was a game manager.

You are completely wrong on this take.

Packers controlled this game because of Rodgers management.

I live in Maryland. A lot of my friends say they love Baltimore. I tell them they love cities, and Baltimore just happens to be the city in Maryland. But compared to other cities….

Y’all say you love Rodgers. And I’m telling you you love QBs and he is yours.

When one recognizes the absolute importance of the QB position in the NFL, and how much it directly impacts wins and losses...it does not also diminish the contributions of other positions.

I mean, you're making my point here. It's not that Rodgers was great, it's that QBs are always important. It's not that Rodgers was great, it's that he effectively managed a game in which the plan was to ask very little of the passing game.

It's the notion that so few other QBs could do what Rodgers did last night that bugs me. I genuinely find myself wondering if you guys watch teams play football with steady starting QBs or if you only watch elite guys and young guys trying to make things happen. I don't mean to be condescending; I don't. I'm just, like, flummoxed. I genuinely and truly see QBs dink and dunk and play conservative within a plan to run the ball and play defense *every week.* It is not unusual or spectacular. It is how you play QB, and it should be expected of any veteran starting QB with a good coach and a good plan.

[YoHoChecko]

for the record, I (nor anybody else that I recall reading) are saying Rodgers "played a great game" or "should be MVP frontrunner after last night's performance" nonsense. What I did specifically refute is your characterization of Rodgers play as pedestrian, average, regular, etc. Forgive me, I no longer recall your exact term(s) and don't care enough to go back and look.

...
Did he make mistakes? Absolutely. Should we be focusing on praising him today? Absolutely not. But to say any ol' QB could have engineered that win last night - I believe you used Matty Ice and Tannehill as examples - is ludicrous. When have either of those two showed the fortitude to lead their teams to wins facing odds similar to last night?

Now this tangent isn't important enough for me to continue to ruin what should be celebratory discussion today. You believe any run-of-the-mill QB could've pulled off what Rodgers and the offense pulled off last night - I do not. Adamantly so.

Ok, there's a post a page or two ago in which I quoted at least 3 or 4 board members discussing Rodgers' MVP case placing him at least 3rd, but some directly saying MVP; I also included tweets and videos from prominent NFL personalities and the league itself, with MVP references.

Like you said "should we be focusing on praising him today? Absolutely not." But several people focused on that, exactly. Both here on the board and around the media landscape. I found that frustrating, and I said as much. I continued the conversation precisely because people engaged on it, and routinely refuted it or intentionally distorted what we said.

And yeah, I see QBs complete 59% of their passes while being carried by a defense and running game all the time. ALL THE TIME. That's exactly what happened and I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this opinion.

[YoHoChecko]

The Packers had 34 runs and 38 passes last night.

The Packers averaged 4.4 yards per rush and 4.8 yards per pass.

The number one offense in the NFL scored only 21 points last night.

And when I say the QB was *only good* or was a *game manager*, people lose their mind. That is why the conversation continues.

[Drj820]

Fundamental disagreement. I confidently stand by my point that the Aaron Rodgers effect kept 9 guys out of the box all night, rodgers got bums lined up, rodgers put us in good positions, Rodgers impacts games in ways that could never show up on the state sheet, and 90% of league QBs lose that game last night without their WR1-3.

Also, none of the above discredits the great performances of Jones and Dillon.

[YoHoChecko]

Fundamental disagreement. I confidently stand by my point that the Aaron Rodgers effect kept 9 guys out of the box all night, rodgers got bums lined up, rodgers put us in good positions, Rodgers impacts games in ways that could never show up on the state sheet, and 90% of league QBs lose that game last night without their WR1-3.

Also, none of the above discredits the great performances of Jones and Dillon.

It's not THAT fundamental. We're actually close. I'm simply saying that the accomplishments you describe... "rodgers got bums lined up, rodgers put us in good positions, Rodgers impacts games in ways that could never show up on the state sheet" are fairly minimal expectations for a veteran NFL starting QB. Like, Rodgers did his job.

The primary difference is that y'all are so convinced that "no one else could have possibly done this" and that simply isn't an argument anyone can prove, but it also is very confusing given how many other QBs have won games with minimal contributions by making smart adjustments and handing the ball off and trusting the defense.

Like we're literally describing Chad Pennington here, who never looked good, never threw deep, and kept leading mediocre teams like the Jets and Dolphins into playoff contention. Aaron Rodgers was healthy Chad Pennington last night. That's my official take. If you disagree, we have a fundamental disagreement. But if you can get behind healthy Chad Pennington, then we're in total agreement.

[Drj820]

Aaron Rodgers was healthy Chad Pennington last night. That's my official take

fundamental disagreement confirmed

[YoHoChecko]

Aaron Rodgers was healthy Chad Pennington last night. That's my official take

fundamental disagreement confirmed

Would you accept Alex Smith?

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Rodgers was missing his top 3 WRs, his best TE (in the second half), and had a makeshift OL, again. The Cards stacked the box all night, because everyone knew there was no threat over the top -- none whatsoever. Yet AR got rid of the ball in under 2.5 over and over and over. No turnovers from AR. When it wasn't there he didn't force it. He routinely changed plays to get into something that had a chance.

Does the head coach get credit? Of course he does. AR would have been killed if MM's slow developing "win your route" OFF was used. That doesn't detract from what AR was able to accomplish.

The notion that Andy Dalton or Kirk Cousins or Joe Flacco or Big Ben does this is absurd. Those guys would have all thrown multiple INTs and took sacks and most likely had QB ratings under 50.

AR took essentially street level WR talent, with little or no practice time together, and made them look NFL serviceable. The same thing he did with Boykin and so many other guys over the years. AR's 90 QB rating last night, given the conditions of the game, is really quite amazing. <snip>

[go pak go]

The Packers won 24 to 21 relying on the running attack to score on two long drives and got the other 10 points from a fumble recovery at the 3 and an interception that put the ball at like that 10.

Sounds like virtually every Bears victory the last 20 years.

And as much as I make fun of the Bears, I was always super jealous how they would get wins based on their defense and running attack.

It is why I am so excited for the rest of the season. *as long as Jaire returns and is effective*

I think Rodgers is playing significantly better than 2019. If the passing offense can start gelling with the Oline returning and get closer to 2020 form, our team is likely the most complete team in the Rodgers era. 2010 and 2009's defense was better, but the 2021 running offense is significantly better.

[Drj820]

Aaron Rodgers was healthy Chad Pennington last night. That's my official take

fundamental disagreement confirmed

Would you accept Alex Smith?

In Chad Penningtons second best record he went 11-6. That year he threw 17 Tds and 16 Ints. I found your comparison blasphemous haha

I greatly respect your opinion on majority of issues..but we way off on this one haha

[YoHoChecko]

AR took essentially street level WR talent, with little or no practice time together, and made them look NFL serviceable. The same thing he did with Boykin and so many other guys over the years. AR's 90 QB rating last night, given the conditions of the game, is really quite amazing. Anyone who says or implies otherwise is blinkered by his own need to show the rest of us how he can magically suck his own cock and talk football at the same time.

You think the receivers looked NFL serviceable last night?

[bud fox]

We saw what the MVP candidate on the Cardinals did against a Packers Def missing its two top CBS lol cheeky to include King I know.

Rodgers was better. He had no receivers. Missing LT and Centre. It's about winning the game and Rodgers did what needed to be done against the best team in the league to win.

Great performance by the team including Rodgers. Another thing is you have so many back up receivers running the wrong routes. Amari turning up when running that fat route ... Rodgers needed to manage turnovers. If he out there blazing the ball there would be turnovers because of route mishaps etc.

Rodgers played the game perfect.

[bud fox]

AR took essentially street level WR talent, with little or no practice time together, and made them look NFL serviceable. The same thing he did with Boykin and so many other guys over the years. AR's 90 QB rating last night, given the conditions of the game, is really quite amazing. Anyone who says or implies otherwise is blinkered by his own need to show the rest of us how he can magically suck his own cock and talk football at the same time.

You think the receivers looked NFL serviceable last night?

Yes lol come on man

[Yoop]

Fundamental disagreement. I confidently stand by my point that the Aaron Rodgers effect kept 9 guys out of the box all night, rodgers got bums lined up, rodgers put us in good positions, Rodgers impacts games in ways that could never show up on the state sheet, and 90% of league QBs lose that game last night without their WR1-3.

Also, none of the above discredits the great performances of Jones and Dillon.

agreed to think any ol QB would have gotten a win last night is far fetched imo to think a average QB could have sustained mistake free ball for those 7 minute drives is a tough sell for me, but thats what we had to do to win this game.

[go pak go]

AR took essentially street level WR talent, with little or no practice time together, and made them look NFL serviceable. The same thing he did with Boykin and so many other guys over the years. AR's 90 QB rating last night, given the conditions of the game, is really quite amazing. Anyone who says or implies otherwise is blinkered by his own need to show the rest of us how he can magically suck his own cock and talk football at the same time.

You think the receivers looked NFL serviceable last night?

God there were moments man....moments were JuWann Winfree looked legit. And then he got the ball in his hands.