Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST

[go pak go]

Isn't this the definition of 'game manager'?

It literally is but people really really don't like that term I've learned. You are allowed to say "Rodgers managed the game well" but you are NOT allowed to say "Rodgers played the game manager role." Forbidden. Not worth it. Don't try.

I'd say about 10ish other QBs in the current NFL could have done what he did on Thursday. It was a good game, but not one that was peerless.

I could agree with that.

Generate 3 drives for 14 points and get 10 points with possession given of 1st and goal.

[YoHoChecko]

Great post! Totally agree with several, especially number 4

This is exactly what disappoints me...no bums me out.

I think the reference to #4 was more of a light-hearted jab at me and the pages and pages of debate about it, not the only thing DrJ cares about.

I think Scott's post and a couple of DrJ's posts were very comprehensive and discussed many things about the game that I also agree with and that several other people also posted about. They're both a little touchy on the notion of what it means to follow a game plan versus what it means to say someone performed like a game manager, but they did--unprompted--discuss the WHOLE game, not just the QB. Good posts, overall.

And let's not lie. My off-my-meds devotion to the topic was not particularly productive, either.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Haha, King and Douglas? I genuinely tried to think of good examples of when King might make more sense and couldn't... I think that ship has sailed. But I think they might alternate between like King and Henry Black based on the scenario.

I want King off the roster. Get a pass rusher or run stopper instead. Need to sink the ship now.

Everyday King is on the roster it is a reminder that if you suck at your job and $%@# up royally you will get another chance and a raise while you’re at it.

[Yoop]

Isn't this the definition of 'game manager'?

It literally is but people really really don't like that term I've learned. You are allowed to say "Rodgers managed the game well" but you are NOT allowed to say "Rodgers played the game manager role." Forbidden. Not worth it. Don't try.

I'd say about 10ish other QBs in the current NFL could have done what he did on Thursday. It was a good game, but not one that was peerless.

of course you'd say that, it supports the group thinking that you and a few others here have of Rodgers.

every QB is a game manager, I'am not sure if I've ever heard such a mis used word in my life, and most QB's will exert themselves well beyond just taking what the defense allows if they have a quality supporting cast, which Rodgers really hasn't had for years now, yet he makes Guy's like MVS, Lazard, and Tonyan household names for Packer fans, when neither would suit for a half doz teams in this league.

this whole convo started because several here decided to degrade Rodgers to the average level QB, and take the focus off of this crappy WR situation that several here like me bring up regularly, I don't know how any Packer fan can support the BS thats went on here the last 5 or so years, the only reason you can is due to the player you've dissed on all day yesterday, why do you think Rodgers threatened to leave?

[Drj820]

Great post! Totally agree with several, especially number 4

This is exactly what disappoints me...no bums me out.

I think the reference to #4 was more of a light-hearted jab at me and the pages and pages of debate about it, not the only thing DrJ cares about.

I think Scott's post and a couple of DrJ's posts were very comprehensive and discussed many things about the game that I also agree with and that several other people also posted about. They're both a little touchy on the notion of what it means to follow a game plan versus what it means to say someone performed like a game manager, but they did--unprompted--discuss the WHOLE game, not just the QB. Good posts, overall.

And let's not lie. My off-my-meds devotion to the topic was not particularly productive, either.

It was not a Jab, it was more of a “hey I found another Ally!”

I think we still just disagree, but that is cool. I enjoyed the debate.

[Scott4Pack]

Dump the “game manager” ideas. He had a plan and worked it very well.

Isn't this the definition of 'game manager'?

Depends on who you are talking with and their idea of it. Many use the term to speak down about a QB, like, “he’s nothing special, but just stays out of trouble enough that we can still win.” Rodgers did more than that. He played within the scheme and made very good choices for 60 minutes. Maybe one pass was a potential INT. And the time that he ran the ball toward the goal line, that was a special moment. We need more of those.

[Pckfn23]

It literally is but people really really don't like that term I've learned. You are allowed to say "Rodgers managed the game well" but you are NOT allowed to say "Rodgers played the game manager role." Forbidden. Not worth it. Don't try.

I'd say about 10ish other QBs in the current NFL could have done what he did on Thursday. It was a good game, but not one that was peerless.

of course you'd say that, it supports the group thinking that you and a few others here have of Rodgers.

You mean reality.

every QB is a game manager, I'am not sure if I've ever heard such a mis used word in my life, and most QB's will exert themselves well beyond just taking what the defense allows if they have a quality supporting cast, which Rodgers really hasn't had for years now, yet he makes Guy's like MVS, Lazard, and Tonyan household names for Packer fans, when neither would suit for a half doz teams in this league.

this whole convo started because several here decided to degrade Rodgers to the average level QB, and take the focus off of this crappy WR situation that several here like me bring up regularly, I don't know how any Packer fan can support the BS thats went on here the last 5 or so years, the only reason you can is due to the player you've dissed on all day yesterday, why do you think Rodgers threatened to leave?

Ah, I see. This discussion only continues so that this tired and wildly uninformed narrative can infect yet another thread.

[Pckfn23]

Dump the “game manager” ideas. He had a plan and worked it very well.

Isn't this the definition of 'game manager'?

Depends on who you are talking with and their idea of it. Many use the term to speak down about a QB, like, “he’s nothing special, but just stays out of trouble enough that we can still win.” Rodgers did more than that. He played within the scheme and made very good choices for 60 minutes. Maybe one pass was a potential INT. And the time that he ran the ball toward the goal line, that was a special moment. We need more of those.

This is not a diss or bashing. Rodgers performance wasn't special. He played within the offense, rarely did anything to hurt the team, and made a handful of awesome plays. It was a good game by him. Given the personnel losses he played how he needed to play taking what the defense gave us. Calling that a game manager is not an insult.

[Yoop]

I'd say about 10ish other QBs in the current NFL could have done what he did on Thursday. It was a good game, but not one that was peerless.

of course you'd say that, it supports the group thinking that you and a few others here have of Rodgers.

You mean reality.

every QB is a game manager, I'am not sure if I've ever heard such a mis used word in my life, and most QB's will exert themselves well beyond just taking what the defense allows if they have a quality supporting cast, which Rodgers really hasn't had for years now, yet he makes Guy's like MVS, Lazard, and Tonyan household names for Packer fans, when neither would suit for a half doz teams in this league.

this whole convo started because several here decided to degrade Rodgers to the average level QB, and take the focus off of this crappy WR situation that several here like me bring up regularly, I don't know how any Packer fan can support the BS thats went on here the last 5 or so years, the only reason you can is due to the player you've dissed on all day yesterday, why do you think Rodgers threatened to leave?

Ah, I see. This discussion only continues so that this tired and wildly uninformed narrative can infect yet another thread.

you people are so funny, 5 or 6 pages back he was no more then a game manager and that was said to demote Rodgers ability, and was compared to a bunch of Jag QB's that have floated from team to team the last half dozen years, or about the time we last drafted a quality WR, Rodgers has done more with less to work with then any of the top half doz QB's in the league, basically carried this team that long as well.

you and others don't like him cause he told Guty he was a AH,

[go pak go]

of course you'd say that, it supports the group thinking that you and a few others here have of Rodgers.

You mean reality.

every QB is a game manager, I'am not sure if I've ever heard such a mis used word in my life, and most QB's will exert themselves well beyond just taking what the defense allows if they have a quality supporting cast, which Rodgers really hasn't had for years now, yet he makes Guy's like MVS, Lazard, and Tonyan household names for Packer fans, when neither would suit for a half doz teams in this league.

this whole convo started because several here decided to degrade Rodgers to the average level QB, and take the focus off of this crappy WR situation that several here like me bring up regularly, I don't know how any Packer fan can support the BS thats went on here the last 5 or so years, the only reason you can is due to the player you've dissed on all day yesterday, why do you think Rodgers threatened to leave?

Ah, I see. This discussion only continues so that this tired and wildly uninformed narrative can infect yet another thread.

you people are so funny, 5 or 6 pages back he was no more then a game manager and that was said to demote Rodgers ability, and was compared to a bunch of Jag QB's that have floated from team to team the last half dozen years, or about the time we last drafted a quality WR, Rodgers has done more with less to work with then any of the top half doz QB's in the league, basically carried this team that long as well.

you and others don't like him cause he told Guty he was a AH,

Really confused what any of this has to do with the Cardinals game.

[Pckfn23]

of course you'd say that, it supports the group thinking that you and a few others here have of Rodgers.

You mean reality.

every QB is a game manager, I'am not sure if I've ever heard such a mis used word in my life, and most QB's will exert themselves well beyond just taking what the defense allows if they have a quality supporting cast, which Rodgers really hasn't had for years now, yet he makes Guy's like MVS, Lazard, and Tonyan household names for Packer fans, when neither would suit for a half doz teams in this league.

this whole convo started because several here decided to degrade Rodgers to the average level QB, and take the focus off of this crappy WR situation that several here like me bring up regularly, I don't know how any Packer fan can support the BS thats went on here the last 5 or so years, the only reason you can is due to the player you've dissed on all day yesterday, why do you think Rodgers threatened to leave?

Ah, I see. This discussion only continues so that this tired and wildly uninformed narrative can infect yet another thread.

you people are so funny, 5 or 6 pages back he was no more then a game manager and that was said to demote Rodgers ability, and was compared to a bunch of Jag QB's that have floated from team to team the last half dozen years, or about the time we last drafted a quality WR, Rodgers has done more with less to work with then any of the top half doz QB's in the league, basically carried this team that long as well.

you and others don't like him cause he told Guty he was a AH,

A complete fabrication. No one "demoted" Rodgers. No is disliking Rodgers. No one bashed Rodgers. Live in reality. Read what people actually write. Stop trying to jam your agenda into every conversation.

[go pak go]

What a beast. All of AJ Dillon's carries.

[Scott4Pack]

Isn't this the definition of 'game manager'?

Depends on who you are talking with and their idea of it. Many use the term to speak down about a QB, like, “he’s nothing special, but just stays out of trouble enough that we can still win.” Rodgers did more than that. He played within the scheme and made very good choices for 60 minutes. Maybe one pass was a potential INT. And the time that he ran the ball toward the goal line, that was a special moment. We need more of those.

This is not a diss or bashing. Rodgers performance wasn't special. He played within the offense, rarely did anything to hurt the team, and made a handful of awesome plays. It was a good game by him. Given the personnel losses he played how he needed to play taking what the defense gave us. Calling that a game manager is not an insult.

Yup. Thanks for putting that into context of how you mean “game manager” in this discussion! You see, when we see you write that, then we understand that you don’t mean it in a negative way on Rodgers. That’s good communication!

Some others won’t mean it that way. They might mean it as if the QB has less talent and is barely getting by with what he has, or he’s in decline, or he’s limited in other ways. But here, we see how you mean it. Thanks.

[TheSkeptic]

What a beast. All of AJ Dillon's carries.

The perfect solution to a quick but small defense. He is using his blockers and picking the hole well, it is not just size and power.

[go pak go]

Depends on who you are talking with and their idea of it. Many use the term to speak down about a QB, like, “he’s nothing special, but just stays out of trouble enough that we can still win.” Rodgers did more than that. He played within the scheme and made very good choices for 60 minutes. Maybe one pass was a potential INT. And the time that he ran the ball toward the goal line, that was a special moment. We need more of those.

This is not a diss or bashing. Rodgers performance wasn't special. He played within the offense, rarely did anything to hurt the team, and made a handful of awesome plays. It was a good game by him. Given the personnel losses he played how he needed to play taking what the defense gave us. Calling that a game manager is not an insult.

Yup. Thanks for putting that into context of how you mean “game manager” in this discussion! You see, when we see you write that, then we understand that you don’t mean it in a negative way on Rodgers. That’s good communication!

Some others won’t mean it that way. They might mean it as if the QB has less talent and is barely getting by with what he has, or he’s in decline, or he’s limited in other ways. But here, we see how you mean it. Thanks.

This whole time I have been excited because the Packers were good enough where they didn't need Rodgers to be Rodgers. Honestly we only needed about 4 throws from him that were somewhat harder throws. The two Cobb TDs, the Tonyan adjustment on the right sideline and the EQSB 4th down play.

Otherwise, the Packers team was able to overcome the non-production from the passing game. We all know why the passing attack wasn't a variable in the game. But the exciting thing is it didn't matter.

I mean name me a last time the Packers defense bailed out Rodgers and the offense because they couldn't put a game away? (okay it actually happened a lot in 2019) but this was very much like a 2010 performance where the offense couldn't seal it and relied on the defense to do it instead.

This game was about defense, our rushing attack and STs. This game was much closer to the 2001 Bears style of winning a game (where defense and STs contribute as many points as the offense) than the usual Packers way of winning. And that isn't a knock on Rodgers, but rather a major kudos to the Green Bay Packers.

Why is this really exciting? Because unlike the 2001 Bears or the 2019 Packers, there is serious hope that the 2021 Packers CAN return to that formidable passing attack that teams fear. A good Oline, Davante Adams, MVS and good spreading around the ball from Rodgers can make this offense score on every drive. The one thing we have seen missing in this 2021 offense is scoring from explosive plays and poor redzone performance.

I think we start seeing more explosive scoring plays in the 2nd half the season and therefore less redzone trips - meaning we only need to score from the redzone 2 times rather than 4 times because the other 2 scores were explosive play TDs (any other scores are just padding at that point). And the game is over by the 4th quarter.

People have been begging for the Packers to not hold Rodgers back for a decade. Well people, the 2021 Packers is the answer to your wants.

[go pak go]

Andrew Brandt said it.

This was a huge win for the Packers as an organization.

[go pak go]

[Yoop]

Guty has done a hell of a job bringing in vets to fill positions where we've lost starters rather then elevating some practice squad player with very little experience, I'am hoping he finds a way to bring in a TE and possibly another WR.

[Drj820]

Not sure how the coaches media availabilities have worked this week with the Thursday game and time off...has anyone asked Lafleur or Drayton about what instructions were given to Hill during the kickoff Return?

I will list what I am hoping to learn and then the corresponding consequence of the information received:

1) Hill was commanded to not take the ball out of the endzone if he finds himself 5 yards deep in the end zone catching the ball. (In this case, I would not fire Drayton while he is at the podium. I would just say Hill paid a horrific price for doing something dumb)

2) Hill was given the option to do what he thought was best, even if ball is kicked 5 yards deep into the endzone. (Drayton must be forced to resign. He can do it on his own time throughout the week, and no need to embarrass the guy)

3) Hill was told to return the kick no matter what. (Lafleur, Murphy, or Gute, should walk out to the podium as soon as Drayton answers the question and ask Drayton to remove all Packers gear, hand him a poncho to where while exiting the stage, and Drayton should be removed from building by police escort immediately. Fired)

Really hope we get some clarity on how this play went down. A tremendous punter provided by Gutey should not be enough to forgive some of the things we are witnessing.

[YoHoChecko]

Not sure how the coaches media availabilities have worked this week with the Thursday game and time off...has anyone asked Lafleur or Drayton about what instructions were given to Hill during the kickoff Return?

I will list what I am hoping to learn and then the corresponding consequence of the information received:

1) Hill was commanded to not take the ball out of the endzone if he finds himself 5 yards deep in the end zone catching the ball. (In this case, I would not fire Drayton while he is at the podium. I would just say Hill paid a horrific price for doing something dumb)

2) Hill was given the option to do what he thought was best, even if ball is kicked 5 yards deep into the endzone. (Drayton must be forced to resign. He can do it on his own time throughout the week, and no need to embarrass the guy)

3) Hill was told to return the kick no matter what. (Lafleur, Murphy, or Gute, should walk out to the podium as soon as Drayton answers the question and ask Drayton to remove all Packers gear, hand him a poncho to where while exiting the stage, and Drayton should be removed from building by police escort immediately. Fired)

Really hope we get some clarity on how this play went down. A tremendous punter provided by Gutey should not be enough to forgive some of the things we are witnessing.

I'm still really confused how this comes down on a ST coach aside from the things BESIDES this that we've witnessed.

Like, most returners have some discretion. Hill made a bad read--he doesn't usually. He hasn't had a bunch of "whoops, took it out and got tackled at the 15" incidents this year. Hill ran directly into a coverage guy at the 10 yard line. That's clearly not what the coaches want. The STs have had their major struggles this year, but this play has absolutely zero bearing on my evaluation of Mo Drayton. We're at the point now where we're taking routine things and making them momentous monstrosities because we're all wounded and scarred from previous mistakes.

If you take out the cumulative impact of mistakes and just look at this one terrible kickoff return, I'm not sure why you'd be mad at a coach. Kylin Hill made a bad decision, someone missed their block, and Hill made shockingly little effort to avoid the dude running straight at him. But we don't fire the WRs coach when Amari Rodgers runs the wrong route in the red zone, ya know?