From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
I was actually just looking up his GF before I hopped on here. My hot take: she is hotter than Rodgers' GF. And by default, almost certainly less crazy.
Speaking of creepy…
this isnt exactly creepy, but i swear when Buck pointed out Jordans mom and said "and the girlfriend" (he didnt say, and Jordans girlfriend, just..jordans mom and the girlfriend"
I thought Buck was saying she was jordans moms girlfriend and my first thought was "hmm..shes done pretty well for herself"
Edit: now i see the graphic says "jordan Loves girlfriend and mother", but i didnt notice the graphic at the time
Some people still wonder about stuff ... creepy or not.
THat JT O Sullivan video is purely click bait. This is also obvious when he speaks about 'Woke' throws etc Guy is a flop and always has been.
Nearly no positives. Makes comments about some play design also being bad, says sometimes Love made right decision but missed throw. Ultimately the video shows how bad Love was. His comments are like "yeah a first round pick makes that throw" "yeah he should've done this".
Missed throws, didn't fix protection, didn't make the right throws.
Bad take. Don't know if you watched the whole video or not, but here are my takeaways.
1.) Yes, he detracts from his own video with the "woke" comments and other socio-political non-sense that had nothing to do with his, otherwise, very good video breakdown.
2.) Yes, he missed throws. I know he has had some accuracy issues, but I attribute this more to nerves and the situation of the day more than ability. We have already seen many of the throws he missed on film.
3.) Didn't fix protection and should not have had to. In a lot of those clips, O'Sullivan illustrated how the Packers were in position to block up the pressure and failed to, either mentally or physically.
4.) He threw some 50-50 balls and some he definitely should not have thrown, but to his credit, he got away with them. Many of the other misses, including the INT were, in fact, the right throw. For the record, I had no problem with the late throw to Cobb. Needed a spark and made it happen. If that is picked, at least it's well down the field. Worth the risk, there. The two AJ Dillon ones were the ones he needed to avoid.
There is no reason to think Love's performances to date shows he is going to be good to great. At this point he seems to be a replacement level Bares QB. But he is a #1 pick that cost an extra pick. He is going to get multiple chances to fail because of that perceived value. So unless some GM had some insane desire for him he is going to be here for awhile. He will get time to show what he really is.
And frankly if he ever made it to the level of 08 Rodgers I'd be ecstatic. The reason 08 was a failure was the D giving up 6 more pts a game not the O dropping 1pt per game from the year before. AR's numbers are easily comparable to Favre's 07 ones. 100 yard passing difference. Same TDs, 2 less ints, 2 pt difference in QB rating. He had a great year all the while enduring the pressure of being attacked by a ton of Favre fans and the media.
There is no reason to think Love's performances to date shows he is going to be good to great. At this point he seems to be a replacement level Bares QB. But he is a #1 pick that cost an extra pick. He is going to get multiple chances to fail because of that perceived value. So unless some GM had some insane desire for him he is going to be here for awhile. He will get time to show what he really is.
And frankly if he ever made it to the level of 08 Rodgers I'd be ecstatic. The reason 08 was a failure was the D giving up 6 more pts a game not the O dropping 1pt per game from the year before. AR's numbers are easily comparable to Favre's 07 ones. 100 yard passing difference. Same TDs, 2 less ints, 2 pt difference in QB rating. He had a great year all the while enduring the pressure of being attacked by a ton of Favre fans and the media.
Absolutely. Rodgers was great in 2008. And that will be similar to Love being great in 2024/2025 based on development time.
Like we are so young in Jordan's career compared to Rodgers.
It is kinda unfair to say if Love isn't the second coming of Rodgers he's a colossal flop. AR is a generational HOF talent. If Love can become good enough not to be a liability he'll be fine. We've seen other teams win the SB with pretty average first round QBs in the past.
It is kinda unfair to say if Love isn't the second coming of Rodgers he's a colossal flop. AR is a generational HOF talent. If Love can become good enough not to be a liability he'll be fine. We've seen other teams win the SB with pretty average first round QBs in the past.
Agreed. OK, let's leave the actual superbowl out of it because Brady skews the stats. But since Favre QB'd the Packers to consecutive NFC titles, the 23 NFC Championships have been won by the following (in alphabetical order):
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Chris Chandler
Kerry Collins
Jake Delhomme
Jimmy Garoppolo
Jared Goff
Rex Grossman
Matt Hasselback
Brad Johnson
Colin Kaepernick
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning (twice)
Cam Newton
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner (three times)
Carson Wentz
Russell Wilson (twice)
Yes, there's some very good ones in there; there are some pretty average ones too. (And there's Rex Grossman. ) You can win it all without a great QB. (Well, you can win the NFC anyway.)
As an aside, it's interesting that the most successful NFC quarterback on the list had a draft value even lower than the AFC's most successful quarterback!
I pretty much agree with NCF’s assessment. I’d add a couple of things.
1. We don’t really know how “structured” a plan that MLF gave to Love. For all we know, he stuck to it pretty well, or didn’t. But it’s a very real variable that we need to know before we judge.
2. Love didn’t fork over the game. Even his one interception was a contested ball to Adams. Yeah, he could’ve thrown it higher. But fact is that Davante got one hand solidly on that ball before it was taken from him. Meanwhile, Love didn’t give more turnovers. We forget how many QBs, young and old, give the ball away too much.
3. Love actually showed poise and presence in feeling the pass rush. I was impressed how he would take a step back or two to avoid the pressure. The only problem with that is that it likely affected his accuracy.
4. Yeah, his accuracy was off, at least during the first two quarters plus. Write that up to nerves. No doubt.
5. The team that played around him, at least on OLine and STs, was more like week 1 than any other week this year so far. That must be taken into consideration. The only thing he could’ve done to help was call the protections at the LOS better. I don’t really have high expectations for a first-start QB in that area.
I am actually confident that whenever he gets another opportunity, he will improve. I see more to like than not like. And what I didn’t like, is coachable.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
There is no reason to think Love's performances to date shows he is going to be good to great. At this point he seems to be a replacement level Bares QB. But he is a #1 pick that cost an extra pick. He is going to get multiple chances to fail because of that perceived value. So unless some GM had some insane desire for him he is going to be here for awhile. He will get time to show what he really is.
And frankly if he ever made it to the level of 08 Rodgers I'd be ecstatic. The reason 08 was a failure was the D giving up 6 more pts a game not the O dropping 1pt per game from the year before. AR's numbers are easily comparable to Favre's 07 ones. 100 yard passing difference. Same TDs, 2 less ints, 2 pt difference in QB rating. He had a great year all the while enduring the pressure of being attacked by a ton of Favre fans and the media.
Absolutely. Rodgers was great in 2008. And that will be similar to Love being great in 2024/2025 based on development time.
Like we are so young in Jordan's career compared to Rodgers.
Why are we expecting Loves career arch and timeline to look anything like Aaron Rodgers?
There is no reason to think Love's performances to date shows he is going to be good to great. At this point he seems to be a replacement level Bares QB. But he is a #1 pick that cost an extra pick. He is going to get multiple chances to fail because of that perceived value. So unless some GM had some insane desire for him he is going to be here for awhile. He will get time to show what he really is.
And frankly if he ever made it to the level of 08 Rodgers I'd be ecstatic. The reason 08 was a failure was the D giving up 6 more pts a game not the O dropping 1pt per game from the year before. AR's numbers are easily comparable to Favre's 07 ones. 100 yard passing difference. Same TDs, 2 less ints, 2 pt difference in QB rating. He had a great year all the while enduring the pressure of being attacked by a ton of Favre fans and the media.
Absolutely. Rodgers was great in 2008. And that will be similar to Love being great in 2024/2025 based on development time.
Like we are so young in Jordan's career compared to Rodgers.
Why are we expecting Loves career arch and timeline to look anything like Aaron Rodgers?
Who said I am?
The primary point is people are placing more pressure on Love than they did with Rodgers (at this point) expecting performance to come sooner to justify a draft pick that was later. All we keep hearing about is "it's been 2 years, time to show it" which is super unfair. At this point (18 months in), Rodgers sucked. He definitely improved from 2005 and you could start seeing some hope, but there was still significant talk at this time of Craig Nall being the better pick for backup than Rodgers. Nall was the Tim Boyle of that time.
1. It's been 18 months. Not 2 years.
2. At this point in both careers, Rodgers had 8 preseason games and two full TC's as backup QB. Love essentially had 2 preseason games and 1 TC as backup QB.
3. Both sucked in their extended NFL debut. Actually Love outperformed Rodgers at this point in their NFL career.
BTW. I don't expect Love's career to mirror Rodgers. I don't expect many QB careers to mirror Rodgers.
Just like with the Rashan Gary angst. Just wait. Give it time. Far too early to make any concrete judgements yet and we have historical precedence showing that time can be kind to certain draft selections.
Last edited by go pak go on 14 Nov 2021 10:31, edited 1 time in total.
There is no reason to think Love's performances to date shows he is going to be good to great. At this point he seems to be a replacement level Bares QB. But he is a #1 pick that cost an extra pick. He is going to get multiple chances to fail because of that perceived value. So unless some GM had some insane desire for him he is going to be here for awhile. He will get time to show what he really is.
And frankly if he ever made it to the level of 08 Rodgers I'd be ecstatic. The reason 08 was a failure was the D giving up 6 more pts a game not the O dropping 1pt per game from the year before. AR's numbers are easily comparable to Favre's 07 ones. 100 yard passing difference. Same TDs, 2 less ints, 2 pt difference in QB rating. He had a great year all the while enduring the pressure of being attacked by a ton of Favre fans and the media.
Absolutely. Rodgers was great in 2008. And that will be similar to Love being great in 2024/2025 based on development time.
Like we are so young in Jordan's career compared to Rodgers.
Why are we expecting Loves career arch and timeline to look anything like Aaron Rodgers?
My guess is you know the answer to that. Hoping it was a rhetorical question.
Absolutely. Rodgers was great in 2008. And that will be similar to Love being great in 2024/2025 based on development time.
Like we are so young in Jordan's career compared to Rodgers.
Why are we expecting Loves career arch and timeline to look anything like Aaron Rodgers?
Who said I am?
The primary point is people are placing more pressure on Love than they did with Rodgers (at this point) expecting performance to come sooner to justify a draft pick that was later. All we keep hearing about is "it's been 2 years, time to show it" which is super unfair. At this point (18 months in), Rodgers sucked. He definitely improved from 2005 and you could start seeing some hope, but there was still significant talk at this time of Craig Nall being the better pick for backup than Rodgers. Nall was the Tim Boyle of that time.
1. It's been 18 months. Not 2 years.
2. At this point in both careers, Rodgers had 8 preseason games and two full TC's as backup QB. Love essentially had 2 preseason games and 1 TC as backup QB.
3. Both sucked in their extended NFL debut. Actually Love outperformed Rodgers at this point in their NFL career.
BTW. I don't expect Love's career to mirror Rodgers. I don't expect many QB careers to mirror Rodgers.
Just like with the Rashan Gary angst. Just wait. Give it time. Far too early to make any concrete judgements yet and we have historical precedence showing that time can be kind to certain draft selections.
Im just not sure how Rodgers arc almost 2 decades ago should even be relevant to Loves Arc and development. It is your prerogative, and nothing wrong with it, but you always defend Loves play by comparing it to the Rodgers timeline. So to me, that is implying that you expect their arch and timeline of development to be similar. I do not expect that at all, nor do even think they are worth comparing unless you expect Love to become anything like Rodgers.
Also, one thing that can be compared to the Rodgers situation is how the team had to believe in Rodgers by a certain point in order to punt of Favre.
That is similar to this. The team will need to believe in Love in order to punt of Rodgers.
Wonder if his Practice and game tape has given them the confidence to do that.
Andrew Brandt says the Rodgers GAME tape did not always give the team the confidence in him needed to punt of Favre, but the practice tape did. I wonder if Love is giving them that confidence in moments we do not see.
Guess we will see in the near future.
My main question tho is that by telling people not to make any judgements on Love based on the career of an extreme outlier, i am just wondering if you expect love to follow the path of that extreme outlier. I hope he does by the way.
Last edited by Drj820 on 14 Nov 2021 10:57, edited 1 time in total.
Also, one thing that can be compared to the Rodgers situation is how the team had to believe in Rodgers by a certain point in order to punt of Favre.
That is similar to this. The team will need to believe in Love in order to punt of Rodgers.
Wonder if his Practice and game tape has given them the confidence to do that.
Andrew Brandt says the Rodgers GAME tape did not always give the team the confidence in him needed to punt of Favre, but the practice tape did. I wonder if Love is giving them that confidence in moments we do not see.
Guess we will see in the near future.
This is really the only relevant thing in this discussion.
At the end of the day, a decision will need to be made. Having a nice performance would have been the warm fuzzies in everyone's hearts but even that is too small a sample size as we just don't know as fans.
I bring up the Rodgers stuff mainly because of the urge to be the first one to make the call; which is ridiculous as fans to make with the limited information we have.
Ultimately I am going to always lean towards going with Love because I am a "legit chance at SB or move on" kind of guy. History shows us a SB isn't possible in GB unless we have a top end defense. The only way I would be on board for a Rodgers return in 2022 is if the Packers are confident they can make it work to bring back Rodgers while keeping that defense as good as we are hoping they shape up to be this year.
Im just not sure how Rodgers arc almost 2 decades ago should even be relevant to Loves Arc and development. It is your prerogative, and nothing wrong with it, but you always defend Loves play by comparing it to the Rodgers timeline. So to me, that is implying that you expect their arch and timeline of development to be similar. I do not expect that at all, nor do even think they are worth comparing unless you expect Love to become anything like Rodgers.
I believe you are misinterpreting what I am saying and getting caught up in this Rodgers Arc; which is not what I am doing.
I am consistent on pretty much every top draft pick. Give. Them. Time. I use Rodgers as the example because it is a relevant example. He needed time. But notice I also used Gary as an example. Davante Adams and Jordy Nelson is another great example.
My primary thought process on draft picks is just make sure they are good players. I don't care if it takes 3 - 4 years to be it. Just draft good players. Whereas there is this battle on this forum that "early pick must = early contribution". Those are best case scenarios but certainly nothing I expect because it is just so rare to consistently have. I usually believe it is better for a team anyway to have a modest 2nd contract player reach their peak during the 2nd contract (think Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, David Bakhtiari) compared to a rookie contract player reach their peak, get paid insane dollars and then have a slow regression to the mean in performance (think Randall Cobb, Clay Matthews, Von Miller, Cam Newton, I think Mahommes has the potential to be this)
But what I will agree with you is the decision point is what is challenging here. All set aside, the Packers will have to make a decision on limited information. And the decision no doubt would have been significantly easier if Love threw 60% completion rate, 260 yards and 2 - 3 TDs in a 27 to 13 victory.
Now that being said, I think there are players who show right away they don't got it. I felt the first time I watched Amari Rodgers on Family Night that he did not have it. And he is continuing to cement that thought process. As for Love? He did show in the 4th quarter he may have it. His first 3 quarters he absolutely did not show anything. Yes the surroundings of him didn't help the situation, but those 1st three quarters were bad.
Just like with the Rashan Gary angst. Just wait. Give it time. Far too early to make any concrete judgements yet and we have historical precedence showing that time can be kind to certain draft selections.
lets see now, QB, easily the most demanding mental position by a mile, compared to edge rusher, where the mental IQ of a grass hopper could propel a player to the NFL HOF
doesn't mean I don't love me some edge rushers or lbers, one of my all time fav's ( Sam Huff) died last week, I just know that the learning curve for QB is ten times harder then that of a edge rusher.
I also think MLF pass schemes are more QB friendly, then the spread verticals of McCarthy's schemes which tend to force QB's to hold the ball longer.
either way Love wont get 3 years of PS games to prep for the real thing, he may have to start next fall.
) You can win it all without a great QB. (Well, you can win the NFC anyway.)
