Here's Johnny!! (Crying over spilt OBJ Bowl) SEA Wk10

[Yoop]

We all watch the action around the ball because it is all the broadcast will allow us to see.

thats BS and you know it.

No, actually it's legitimate fact. The broadcast only shows the whole field on rare occasions, so it is impossible to watch anything but the action around the ball.

no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.

you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here

[go pak go]

thats BS and you know it.

No, actually it's legitimate fact. The broadcast only shows the whole field on rare occasions, so it is impossible to watch anything but the action around the ball.

no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.

you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here

I'm sorry yoop. What position are we and Packfn23 trying to push here?

This was brought up all because of a question of why Stokes was so far behind King when Stokes had an absolutely unbelievable game. And all I did was respond, "you know why...the INT"

And now you are a picking a fight about PFF and then take it another step about pushing an agenda.

So what exactly is wrong with us questioning some PFF grades? Because that is literally all we did.

Every player in that secondary played awesome. Every one of them. It was literally Wilson's worst performance of his career. It was just questioned why Stokes, who played all the snaps and didn't allow anything was graded so far below King who played 20 snaps.

Savage got beat once but the pressure bailed him out and Wilson had to throw the ball deeper and higher which allowed Savage to make a play on the ball. King got beat once by Metcalf but again the pressure bailed him out.

[Yoop]

No, actually it's legitimate fact. The broadcast only shows the whole field on rare occasions, so it is impossible to watch anything but the action around the ball.

no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.

you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here

I'm sorry yoop. What position are we and Packfn23 trying to push here?

This was brought up all because of a question of why Stokes was so far behind King when Stokes had an absolutely unbelievable game. And all I did was respond, "you know why...the INT"

And now you are a picking a fight about PFF and then take it another step about pushing an agenda.

So what exactly is wrong with us questioning some PFF grades? Because that is literally all we did.

Every player in that secondary played awesome. Every one of them. It was literally Wilson's worst performance of his career. It was just questioned why Stokes, who played all the snaps and didn't allow anything was graded so far below King who played 20 snaps.

Savage got beat once but the pressure bailed him out and Wilson had to throw the ball deeper and higher which allowed Savage to make a play on the ball. King got beat once by Metcalf but again the pressure bailed him out.

When a grading system grades players on the same scale as I do based on watching LIVE and fan emotion, that is not a good grading system. After more review, Stokes was the best CB yesterday by far.

as I said, YOU DONT KNOW THIS, and as I said PFF has a grader for just about every player, you watch 22 players at one time, they grade 1 or 2, again I said they may be off a little on a player here and there, but not by much.

[Pckfn23]

thats BS and you know it.

No, actually it's legitimate fact. The broadcast only shows the whole field on rare occasions, so it is impossible to watch anything but the action around the ball.

no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.

you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here

Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.

I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.

[Yoop]

No, actually it's legitimate fact. The broadcast only shows the whole field on rare occasions, so it is impossible to watch anything but the action around the ball.

no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.

you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here

Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.

I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.

are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.

[Pckfn23]

no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.

you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here

Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.

I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.

are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.

[Yoop]

Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.

I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.

are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.

when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.

when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.

[Pckfn23]

are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.

when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.

when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.

Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.

No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/

PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.

[Yoop]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.

when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.

when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.

Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.

No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/

PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.

PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.

last post.

[Pckfn23]

So you are just making up a scenario without any sort of evidence at all...

[go pak go]

when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.

when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.

Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.

No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/

PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.

PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.

last post.

I think a prudent individual would aggregate all graders and personal watch to form a conclusion rather than just blindly follow one grading system.

I'm not about knocking any particular system. But instead accept this stuff is subjective and also realize that PFF releases their grades INCREDIBLY fast which means there is holes in their review and also likely limited video due to a emphasis on getting grades out quick rather than what they did in prior years.

All of this started based on a question of why Kevin King is rated at Elite but Eric Stokes, who played probably the best overall game by a CB this season, graded at just above average.

I think that is a fair question.

[Yoop]

Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.

No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/

PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.

PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.

last post.

I think a prudent individual would aggregate all graders and personal watch to form a conclusion rather than just blindly follow one grading system.

I'm not about knocking any particular system. But instead accept this stuff is subjective and also realize that PFF releases their grades INCREDIBLY fast which means there is holes in their review and also likely limited video due to a emphasis on getting grades out quick rather than what they did in prior years.

All of this started based on a question of why Kevin King is rated at Elite but Eric Stokes, who played probably the best overall game by a CB this season, graded at just above average.

I think that is a fair question.

you or someone else answered your question, the reason King was graded higher had to do with difficulty of assignments and that he also had a pick ( this is so narrow minded of you to say Stokes had the best game by a CB all season, why even add something as inconclusive to this convo)

I say Rookies start regularly, you say, RARELY, Stokes is proof that rookies start and play well regularly, dunk that in your morning coffee

no one would pay PFF for inacurate grades, not as inacurate as you and others here think they are.

[go pak go]

PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.

last post.

I think a prudent individual would aggregate all graders and personal watch to form a conclusion rather than just blindly follow one grading system.

I'm not about knocking any particular system. But instead accept this stuff is subjective and also realize that PFF releases their grades INCREDIBLY fast which means there is holes in their review and also likely limited video due to a emphasis on getting grades out quick rather than what they did in prior years.

All of this started based on a question of why Kevin King is rated at Elite but Eric Stokes, who played probably the best overall game by a CB this season, graded at just above average.

I think that is a fair question.

you or someone else answered your question, the reason King was graded higher had to do with difficulty of assignments and that he also had a pick ( this is so narrow minded of you to say Stokes had the best game by a CB all season, why even add something as inconclusive to this convo)

I say Rookies start regularly, you say, RARELY, Stokes is proof that rookies start and play well regularly, dunk that in your morning coffee

no one would pay PFF for inacurate grades, not as inacurate as you and others here think they are.

So Kevin King was only allowed to play when the "difficult assignments" were present? He played well. But he played only a third of the actual snaps.

Eric Stokes is in rare air right now. This dude's 2021 rookie season is the best the NFL has seen since 2017 when Marshawn Lattimore was drafted.

image.png (20.42 KiB) Viewed 364 times

[salmar80]

King only played 20 snaps?

I'm changing my vote to Stokes. 60 snaps without allowing anything is more impressive.

[paco]

King only played 20 snaps?

I'm changing my vote to Stokes. 60 snaps without allowing anything is more impressive.

Sal, can we get a count on where votes are? I'm thinking of changing mine from King as well.

Everyone should just vote Dillon anyway.

[salmar80]

King only played 20 snaps?

I'm changing my vote to Stokes. 60 snaps without allowing anything is more impressive.

Sal, can we get a count on where votes are? I'm thinking of changing mine from King as well.

Everyone should just vote Dillon anyway.

dillon 7
king 3
preston 2
stokes 1
amos 1

[Yoop]

King only played 20 snaps?

I'm changing my vote to Stokes. 60 snaps without allowing anything is more impressive.

I have to agree, didn't realize King only played 20 snaps.

this is some of the best secondary play we've had in years, and our safety's make that possible, it's a toss up for me between Amos, Stokes and Dillon.

I'll switch to Stokes.

[go pak go]

King only played 20 snaps?

I'm changing my vote to Stokes. 60 snaps without allowing anything is more impressive.

I have to agree, didn't realize King only played 20 snaps.

this is some of the best secondary play we've had in years, and our safety's make that possible, it's a toss up for me between Amos, Stokes and Dillon.

I'll switch to Stokes.

Like I said. All Packfn23 and I did was ask a question of why PFF graded the way they did.

To put Stokes at "above average" and King at Elite grading is strange. LIkely due to the high grade of the INT and low snap count. But when just looking at the grade and comparing it other players, it doesn't do the evaluation justice.

Nothing wrong with questioning grades and evaluations.

[salmar80]

King only played 20 snaps?

I'm changing my vote to Stokes. 60 snaps without allowing anything is more impressive.

I have to agree, didn't realize King only played 20 snaps.

this is some of the best secondary play we've had in years, and our safety's make that possible, it's a toss up for me between Amos, Stokes and Dillon.

I'll switch to Stokes.

Like I said. All Packfn23 and I did was ask a question of why PFF graded the way they did.

To put Stokes at "above average" and King at Elite grading is strange. LIkely due to the high grade of the INT and low snap count. But when just looking at the grade and comparing it other players, it doesn't do the evaluation justice.

Nothing wrong with questioning grades and evaluations.

Any idea whether they include STs snaps to those grades? If yes, could explain some grades that look weird when considering only O or D snaps.

I also think grading down to a decimal point is kinda hilarious. Patrick Taylor played a total of 4 snaps, 3 on O and one on STs. Getting a 62.9 grade sounds awfully specific for 4 snaps. I kinda imagine the grader going "Now that's a play worth -0.1 points!"

[go pak go]

I have to agree, didn't realize King only played 20 snaps.

this is some of the best secondary play we've had in years, and our safety's make that possible, it's a toss up for me between Amos, Stokes and Dillon.

I'll switch to Stokes.

Like I said. All Packfn23 and I did was ask a question of why PFF graded the way they did.

To put Stokes at "above average" and King at Elite grading is strange. LIkely due to the high grade of the INT and low snap count. But when just looking at the grade and comparing it other players, it doesn't do the evaluation justice.

Nothing wrong with questioning grades and evaluations.

Any idea whether they include STs snaps to those grades? If yes, could explain some grades that look weird when considering only O or D snaps.

I also think grading down to a decimal point is kinda hilarious. Patrick Taylor played a total of 4 snaps, 3 on O and one on STs. Getting a 62.9 grade sounds awfully specific for 4 snaps. I kinda imagine the grader going "Now that's a play worth -0.1 points!"

They do include ST's.

Their grading scale for each play I believe goes from a -2 to a +2 with 0 being a neutral.

So with King, he has limited snaps but likely got a 2.0 grade on the INT. He also had no negative plays or at the least would only have minor limited plays.

Therefore, he gets an elite grade because of the low snap count and game changing play. I wish PFF would somehow qualify that in their rankings.