Packers signing Devin Funchess

[Yoop]

Lazard is slow, with faulty tech, he got Aarons attention last year because everyone else outside of Adams and Graham where worse, if thats our answer for the #2 or 3 receiver slot then Guty should be fired the day after the draft, this is border line insanity now, look what happened the last couple seasons relying on basically jags to become better, over and over year after year, we do this draft and develop approach at WR, and what do we have to show for it, inability to sustain drives, tons of mis comunication between Rodgers and receivers, lack of group chemistry, this has become a joke now, we have to improve this position with a better prospect, screw this crap with waiting or thinking any of Lazard, MVS, EQ, can elevate there game, cause NO one has before them in recent years, get some real talent.

[Pckfn23]

Doesn't have good catching technique, can't reliably catch contested passes, and doesn't create enough separation.

I mean what else are you looking for in a WR?

The only one there, I personally, have noticed people being able to improve on is separation by running better routes and getting tougher at the LOS, but isn't common, in my humble stoic opinion.

Catch technique can DEFINITELY be improved on. All you have to do is ask Mr. Davante Adams! Tony Gonzalez is another good example. I think you can find his story from his Hall of Fame speech/interviews. Lazard can't reliably catch contested passes, not sure that can be said, but as an extension of his catching technique I will agree his low drop rate may not stay low if he does not improve.

Now, you say MVS and ESB have the tools, but Lazard doesn't. What do they possess that he does not?

ESB:
Height: 6046
Weight: 214
40 Yard Dash (ET): 4.48
40 Yard Dash (HH): 4.45
20 Yard (ET): 2.59
20 Yard (HH): 2.45
10 Yard (ET): 1.54
10 Yard (HH): 1.52 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 34 1/2
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle:
3-Cone Drill:
Hand: 09 3/4
Arm: 33
Wingspan: 78 7/8

MVS:
Height: 6040
Weight: 206
40 Yard Dash (ET): 4.37
40 Yard Dash (HH): 4.37
20 Yard (ET): 2.58
20 Yard (HH): 2.44
10 Yard (ET): 1.55
10 Yard (HH): 1.55
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15
Vertical Jump: 30 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.17
3-Cone Drill: 6.85
Hand: 10
Arm: 32 1/4
Wingspan: 79 3/8

Lazard:
eight: 6045
Weight: 227
40 Yard Dash (ET): 4.55
40 Yard Dash (HH): 4.56
20 Yard (ET): 2.63
20 Yard (HH): 2.57
10 Yard (ET): 1.58
10 Yard (HH): 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 38
Broad Jump: 10'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.33
3-Cone Drill: 7.11
Hand: 09 3/4
Arm: 32 1/4
Wingspan: 78 3/4

Simply trying to understand what exactly about Lazard is giving pause and would lead one to believe he can't really improve on some of his shortcomings. Maybe I am missing something. I will say, I believe he Lazard definitely got faster this past season.

[Pckfn23]

Lazard is slow, with faulty tech

Not true, especially the first. He needs some catch technique improvements.

That faulty tech reasoning is always an interesting one as it is SO broad. Personally I think it is just an easy thing to throw out there because it isn't very provable as it is so broad.

[Pckfn23]

if thats our answer for the #2 or 3 receiver slot then Guty should be fired the day after the draft, this is border line insanity now, look what happened the last couple seasons relying on basically jags to become better, over and over year after year, we do this draft and develop approach at WR, and what do we have to show for it, inability to sustain drives, tons of mis comunication between Rodgers and receivers, lack of group chemistry, this has become a joke now, we have to improve this position with a better prospect, screw this crap with waiting or thinking any of Lazard, MVS, EQ, can elevate there game, cause NO one has before them in recent years, get some real talent.

This conversation is about Lazard's potential or lack there of, not your pet topic of how Gutekunst and Thompson has screwed over Rodgers with subpar receivers...

[NCF]

If we go up a level, I think we added depth to our team and essentially replaced Jimmy Graham's role in the offense with a minimum contract, so you can't beat that.

Between Lazard and Funchess, I think one will be used a little bit more as a move TE/big slot. Call it whatever you want to call it, but I think we are still heading into the draft looking for plenty of help at WR.

[Pckfn23]

Call it whatever you want to call it, but I think we are still heading into the draft looking for plenty of help at WR.

100% agree. I think we will definitely be looking at WR in the first 2 rounds.

[Captain_Ben]

The 4.7 second 40 yard dash is why I'm not particularly excited about the Funchess signing. Is he known to play faster? Hopefully he just had a bad combine or something.

I see him as a solid middle-of-the-depth chart WR, but we need something more to get this offense to the next level.

[NCF]

The 4.7 second 40 yard dash is why I'm not particularly excited about the Funchess signing. Is he known to play faster? Hopefully he just had a bad combine or something.

I see him as a solid middle-of-the-depth chart WR, but we need something more to get this offense to the next level.

I think his game speed is faster than that 40, but he's not a speed receiver. He's a big-bodied possession receiver, so it is what it is.

[salmar80]

The 4.7 second 40 yard dash is why I'm not particularly excited about the Funchess signing. Is he known to play faster? Hopefully he just had a bad combine or something.

I see him as a solid middle-of-the-depth chart WR, but we need something more to get this offense to the next level.

Didn't see him outrun folks in his highlights. Seems more like a big, strong WR, large catch radius, who uses his body well as a shield to get into a position for catches and is a load for CBs to take down.

Not sure if poor catch % per attempted pass is more due to drops or him getting thrown a lotta prayer 50/50 passes... Could be both.

I agree, more of a utility WR 3 or 4, who can be used as a red zone threat and as a favorable matchup vs certain secondaries. No way a locked-in WR2 - that guy hopefully comes from the draft.

[Buck]

Lazard is slow, with faulty tech, he got Aarons attention last year because everyone else outside of Adams and Graham where worse, if thats our answer for the #2 or 3 receiver slot then Guty should be fired the day after the draft, this is border line insanity now, look what happened the last couple seasons relying on basically jags to become better, over and over year after year, we do this draft and develop approach at WR, and what do we have to show for it, inability to sustain drives, tons of mis comunication between Rodgers and receivers, lack of group chemistry, this has become a joke now, we have to improve this position with a better prospect, screw this crap with waiting or thinking any of Lazard, MVS, EQ, can elevate there game, cause NO one has before them in recent years, get some real talent.

This.

We came into this offseason knowing this was one of our biggest (if not the biggest) flaws, and today it still is. I expect Gutey to take a WR early but I'm still really disappointed with how this has been addressed. Unless there is a trade coming but I don't see that happening. If Funchess can stay healthy, great. He's better than Kumerow, Alison, MVS, but he is not a #2. Better hope whichever rookie they take and/or EQ is a stud.

[salmar80]

Lazard is slow, with faulty tech, he got Aarons attention last year because everyone else outside of Adams and Graham where worse, if thats our answer for the #2 or 3 receiver slot then Guty should be fired the day after the draft, this is border line insanity now, look what happened the last couple seasons relying on basically jags to become better, over and over year after year, we do this draft and develop approach at WR, and what do we have to show for it, inability to sustain drives, tons of mis comunication between Rodgers and receivers, lack of group chemistry, this has become a joke now, we have to improve this position with a better prospect, screw this crap with waiting or thinking any of Lazard, MVS, EQ, can elevate there game, cause NO one has before them in recent years, get some real talent.

This.

We came into this offseason knowing this was one of our biggest (if not the biggest) flaws, and today it still is. I expect Gutey to take a WR early but I'm still really disappointed with how this has been addressed. Unless there is a trade coming but I don't see that happening. If Funchess can stay healthy, great. He's better than Kumerow, Alison, MVS, but he is not a #2. Better hope whichever rookie they take and/or EQ is a stud.

I fully get why you'd think that. The position WAS dismal last season apart from Adams. I was kinda hoping for a surefire weapon, too.

One smart thing that was mentioned in the packersnews.com article about the Funchess signing: Even if it's a fantastic WR draft class, coronavirus looks to wipe out most or all of the off-season practices. Any rookie will have a tough time to come in and start in week 1. This may be why Gutey got one veteran option per dire need position (WR, ILB & OT).

Gutey entered this off-season without much spending room, and decided to spread it instead of spending all on a top-tier guy at one need position. Kirksey, Wagner and Funchess combined will cost veeeery close to the 11.4M cap saving that Gutey freed by re-working Aaron Rodgers' contract. And none of them affect compensatory picks coming our way in 2021.

[go pak go]

I swear the consenss on this board two months ago was Lazard is a fine WR #3 option but we need improvement at #2.

Now Lazard isn't even a #3 option?

As for Funches....he is faster than Allison. Cheaper than Allison. Bigger than Allison. Better draft pedigree than Allison.

I would say our WR group is already better than it was a year ago.

[NCF]

I would say our WR group is already better than it was a year ago.

And I would say we don't even know how much that is true, but I agree completely.

[wallyuwl]

Should perform better in GB than CAR. Cam wasn't very accurate. Then again, AR isn't very accurate anymore either.

[TheSkeptic]

The idea that Lazard is slow is absurd. Guess what folks, look at Davonte Adams' 40 time. Is he slow? How is that that 2 players with identical 40 times, 1 is a top 5 receiver in the NFL and the other is too slow to be a WR2 ?

Anyone who looks at the measurables should see that all 3, ESB, MVS and Lazard all meet the requirements for WR2. But measurables alone do not determine that a WR will be great.

Most important is Good Hands. This is a combination of soft hands, the ability to pluck the ball as opposed to body catching and hand-eye coordination (ball tracking). It is difficult to argue that Lazard and Kumerow don't have good hands, they clearly do. Probably ESB does also. Probably MVS and Fuchness do not.

In the Packers scheme, WR has to block well. And he has to have rapport with Rodgers. Does anyone claim that Lazard does not?

[Yoop]

if thats our answer for the #2 or 3 receiver slot then Guty should be fired the day after the draft, this is border line insanity now, look what happened the last couple seasons relying on basically jags to become better, over and over year after year, we do this draft and develop approach at WR, and what do we have to show for it, inability to sustain drives, tons of mis comunication between Rodgers and receivers, lack of group chemistry, this has become a joke now, we have to improve this position with a better prospect, screw this crap with waiting or thinking any of Lazard, MVS, EQ, can elevate there game, cause NO one has before them in recent years, get some real talent.

This conversation is about Lazard's potential or lack there of, not your pet topic of how Gutekunst and Thompson has screwed over Rodgers with subpar receivers...

sorry, I lost my control, I'am beyond fed up with this situation though, and have been for a few years.

Lazard is not fast (is that better) and does not play up to 4.55 speed, any video you look at will expose him, and he is easy to single cover, imho the reason you see him bobble throws is that AR is throwing the ball to a spot only he can compete for the catch.

Lazard, like a lot of players do well at the combine drills because they spend the time practicing the exercises, that stuff isn't transferable to how they play, just go watch Lazard and tell me he has 4.5 speed? you wont be able to because it's just not there.

will the lost weight make him quicker? only time on the field will show us, I hope it does, buy I wont hold my breath, in fact I really don't expect much of a leap from any of these guys.

[APB]

The idea that Lazard is slow is absurd. Guess what folks, look at Davonte Adams' 40 time. Is he slow? How is that that 2 players with identical 40 times, 1 is a top 5 receiver in the NFL and the other is too slow to be a WR2 ?

Anyone who looks at the measurables should see that all 3, ESB, MVS and Lazard all meet the requirements for WR2. But measurables alone do not determine that a WR will be great.

Most important is Good Hands. This is a combination of soft hands, the ability to pluck the ball as opposed to body catching and hand-eye coordination (ball tracking). It is difficult to argue that Lazard and Kumerow don't have good hands, they clearly do. Probably ESB does also. Probably MVS and Fuchness do not.

In the Packers scheme, WR has to block well. And he has to have rapport with Rodgers. Does anyone claim that Lazard does not?

I just love reading posts like this.

[NCF]

Most important is Good Hands. This is a combination of soft hands, the ability to pluck the ball as opposed to body catching and hand-eye coordination (ball tracking). It is difficult to argue that Lazard and Kumerow don't have good hands, they clearly do. Probably ESB does also. Probably MVS and Fuchness do not.

BF004 made the case against Lazard's hands here:

viewtopic.php?p=707#p707

I think he can get better, but I wouldn't necessarily put him in the "good hands" category. Too lazy to look up his stats, but I seem to remember he had his issues with drops, as well.

[YoHoChecko]

I'm not a big fan of this signing, but there isn't a lot of downside.

Not a fan:
Currently our WR group lacks speed. We have three WRs that are at least 6'5" with varying degrees of adequate "build-up" speed, but not much in terms of suddenness--be that shiftiness or acceleration. (EQSB, 4.48, Lazzard, 4.56, Funchess, 4.70)

Funchess replaces Allison with many of the same faults (consistently high drop rate, no speed), though his size is a bit of an upgrade in both height and weight

This fails to address some of the things we lacked at the position group--mostly speed and separation ability, but also positional versatility. Funchess isn't going to be doing jet sweeps (I know, Allison did, and they were awful) or taking snaps in the backfield ever. It's doubling (well, tripling) down on a WR archtype we clearly like, but already have. I'm not sure what Funchess adds that the return of EQSB wouldn't have. I have been passing over guys like Pittman and Tee Higgins, both of whom I like, in this draft class because I felt they were redundant to our current skillsets. MLF talked about the WR group like a basketball team. Right now he's got Adams and a bunch of Power Forwards

Fan:
The deal sounds cheap, he's experienced, he seems to try hard, and he's still young.

Conclusion:
This is fine; it certainly doesn't hurt us; it's certainly an adequate and cheap Allison replacement, but I've have much rather added someone more versatile or faster--Taylor Gabriel is my go-to budget WR addition this offseason, as he played in the system with Atlanta and could be used in a variety of ways... especially if we don't bring back Ervin, who remains a free agent.

[Pckfn23]

Lazard is not fast (is that better) and does not play up to 4.55 speed, any video you look at will expose him, and he is easy to single cover

Yes he does play to his 4.55 speed and he plays faster as he lost weight. How much faster is hard to say, but it was very evident he had enough speed to make it work. Now all he needs to do is improve on some things and he could be a decent #2.

Lazard, like a lot of players do well at the combine drills because they spend the time practicing the exercises, that stuff isn't transferable to how they play, just go watch Lazard and tell me he has 4.5 speed? you wont be able to because it's just not there.

It absolutely is there. There are plenty of examples of him playing as fast or slightly faster than his posted 40 time.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... the-clutch
Got behind Glover Quin who ran a 4.46 at the Combine. IF that isn't paying faster than your posted 40 time, I don't know what is.


Antoine Beathea who ran a 4.42 is not catching up to Lazard after the break.

will the lost weight make him quicker? only time on the field will show us, I hope it does, buy I wont hold my breath, in fact I really don't expect much of a leap from any of these guys.

The lost weight DID make him faster/quicker. We saw it on the field. He lost weight last offseason, not this offseason....

Let's see evidence he was playing slower.