General Packer News 2021

[BF004]

Hey all. If anyone knows where Jeff's stone is at Lambeau, let me know. I know it's been posted but couldn't find where.

North side of the stadium, between the atrium entrance and the will call ticket area.

I was to say like 3 panels away from that ticket thingy.

Knew you'd come through! Going to find it after lunch.

Well &%$@, I should pop down there and get a pint with you.

[Yoop]

Ranking of 2nd to 9th isn't a big deal and they aren't even talking about the same lot of players. And really don't think anyone cares the slightest bit if you ever liked the pick. We just care if he is good or not and yes, that determines our opinion of Gute's drafting ability. Pretty sure everyone here, at least who's opinions I care about, have stated from the beginning its stupid to grade or judge a pick too early.

If PFF is more lenient in the determination of a hurry, then that just likely means PFR's is more likely to record more 'impact' or 'obvious' pressures. So yeah, PFR still holds a lot of credibility in my opinion.

We know the Packers coaches do their own stats as well that sync up with neither.

Just as long as both are consistent in how they grade, the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. Neither should be taken as gospel and just one number of many to consider.

Obviously there will be some subjectivity as to whether a specific play is considered a pressure or not, but the disparity is too large for that to be the only difference, I mean we are talking almost half the totals less from PFR.

this stuff perked my interest when I noticed it in 2019 with Z, PFF gave him 95 pressures ( there about) first among edge rushers, PFR had him totaled about 30 less, or about the same as Gary this year, and they and out of the top 5, how can they possibly miss this many pressures? and this drops the player down, and even possibly out of performance money.

I know this doesn't mean much to us, hardly any affect, I guess it's a pet peve thats just rubbed me.

[paco]

North side of the stadium, between the atrium entrance and the will call ticket area.

I was to say like 3 panels away from that ticket thingy.

Knew you'd come through! Going to find it after lunch.

Well &%$@, I should pop down there and get a pint with you.

We just ordered but would be happy to have one with you! At 1919 of course.

[Pckfn23]

Z Smith had 50 PFR Pressures in 2019, NOT 30 or less... He was 5th that year with TJ Watt being 1st with 59.

Are you actually saying that PFR or PFF stats are written into contracts and would affect player pay?

Lastly, PFR is NOT missing pressures... They define and count pressures differently...

[NCF]

Do we really need to explain it for the 5th time...

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

[go pak go]

I took almost all week off but glad to still see nothing has changed.

Yoop bringing up how MM had a bad team when it is pointed out how effective MLF has been and how yoop recognized it for years

Yoop being totally interested in the PFF/PFR pressure disparity yet only due diligence he does to explain the difference is ask us on the forum why they are different for the 57th week in a row while accusing Pckfn23 of not being transparent on pressure stats when 23 literally provided both provider stats in the same post.

But I do like the new twist of contracts being "linked" with subjective statistics determined by a third party provider.

[Yoop]

Z Smith had 50 PFR Pressures in 2019, NOT 30 or less... He was 5th that year with TJ Watt being 1st with 59.

Are you actually saying that PFR or PFF stats are written into contracts and would affect player pay?

Lastly, PFR is NOT missing pressures... They define and count pressures differently...

Z had 95 PFF total pressures in 2019, so if PFR only gave him 50, then your right, it wasn't 30 pressure difference it was 45 pressure difference, even more of a descrepency.

we know that players have performance incentives written into contracts regularly, probably sacks over total pressures, but a edge ratting of 2nd in the league obviously is better then being rated 9th.

If PFR isn't missing a bunch of hurries then why do they omit them, just add all of em in the way PFF does.

[NCF]

If PFR isn't missing a bunch of hurries then why do they omit them, just add all of em in the way PFF does.

Because they choose to and because they can. It's their definition.

[Yoop]

I took almost all week off but glad to still see nothing has changed.

Yoop bringing up how MM had a bad team when it is pointed out how effective MLF has been and how yoop recognized it for years

Yoop being totally interested in the PFF/PFR pressure disparity yet only due diligence he does to explain the difference is ask us on the forum why they are different for the 57th week in a row while accusing Pckfn23 of not being transparent on pressure stats when 23 literally provided both provider stats in the same post.

But I do like the new twist of contracts being "linked" with subjective statistics determined by a third party provider.

and McCarthy couldn't or wouldn't recognize the need to change, now that he has we commend him.

and now that Gary is finally delivering on draft status I commend him to.

stats matter, when one service differs by almost half I take notice, why should I accept that Gary is rated 9th in the league in one and 2nd in the league in the other, there is nothing consistent between these two grading and stat keepers.

[Pckfn23]

Z Smith had 50 PFR Pressures in 2019, NOT 30 or less... He was 5th that year with TJ Watt being 1st with 59.

Are you actually saying that PFR or PFF stats are written into contracts and would affect player pay?

Lastly, PFR is NOT missing pressures... They define and count pressures differently...

Z had 95 PFF total pressures in 2019, so if PFR only gave him 50, then your right, it wasn't 30 pressure difference it was 45 pressure difference, even more of a descrepency.

You did not say difference, you specifically said "totaled!" That was a bald faced one there.

Z, PFF gave him 95 pressures ( there about) first among edge rushers, PFR had him totaled about 30 less,

we know that players have performance incentives written into contracts regularly, probably sacks over total pressures, but a edge ratting of 2nd in the league obviously is better then being rated 9th.

Yes, official stats. Pressures is not an official stat used by the NFL. Do you have any examples of where an unofficial stat like pressures was written into a contract?

If PFR isn't missing a bunch of hurries then why do they omit them, just add all of em in the way PFF does.

They don't omit them... They define them differently. There is no intentional omission, they do not exist because of the difference in definition.

[Pckfn23]

Do we really need to explain it for the 5th time...

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

What would you like me to explain?

[Yoop]

If PFR isn't missing a bunch of hurries then why do they omit them, just add all of em in the way PFF does.

Because they choose to and because they can. It's their definition.

well no kidding, maybe I'am not making myself clear enough to you and everyone, my point is that my eyes have told me that Gary has been better then PFR is giving him credit for being, we/us have watched him get between 4 to 6 pressures a game, and PFR wants to give him 3, crips I don't need to see stats to know thats off, Stevie Wonder would know Gary is being low balled, we all know that PFR's stats are off.

yet I'am getting gruff for pointing it out.

[NCF]

Do we really need to explain it for the 5th time...

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

What would you like me to explain?

Nothing. You shouldn't have to. It has already been explained. That was my point. I was just honestly answering your question.

[Pckfn23]

It is all relative... All players are compared using the same definition. No one is being low balled. That the pressure number is smaller on one site does not mean the player is being said to have a worse season. PFR stats are no more off than PFF stats.

[Pckfn23]

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

What would you like me to explain?

Nothing. You shouldn't have to. It has already been explained. That was my point. I was just honestly answering your question.

Oh, I gotcha!

[Yoop]

Do we really need to explain it for the 5th time...

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

What would you like me to explain?

He didn't ask you now did he ? thing is there is no explanation given, and believe me I've tried, but maybe your better at getting a answer from PFR, they have not answered my emails, as I said, best guess is they count the first hurry and unless there is a hit or a sack thats all the hurry's they count.

imo that discards hurry's from other players on that play.

and your sarcasm is noted.

[Pckfn23]

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

What would you like me to explain?

He didn't ask you now did he ? thing is there is no explanation given, and believe me I've tried, but maybe your better at getting a answer from PFR, they have not answered my emails, as I said, best guess is they count the first hurry and unless there is a hit or a sack thats all the hurry's they count.

imo that discards hurry's from other players on that play.

and your sarcasm is noted.

Let me explain it to you once again:

QB Pressures = hurries + knockdowns + all sack plays (half and full for players, just full sacks for teams)
Hurries - QB threw the ball earlier than intended or chased out of the pocket
QB Knockdowns - QB hit the ground after the throw
Sack - Official since 1982, based on play-by-play, game film and other research since 1960

If a QB does not hit the ground before or after the throw and he did not throw it before PFR believes he intended to or he was not chased out of the pocket, then it would not be a pressure.

Can you tell me what PFF's definition of a pressure or even a hurry is?

[BF004]

Unless he was being rhetorical... I literally do. not. know.

What would you like me to explain?

He didn't ask you now did he ? thing is there is no explanation given, and believe me I've tried, but maybe your better at getting a answer from PFR, they have not answered my emails, as I said, best guess is they count the first hurry and unless there is a hit or a sack thats all the hurry's they count.

imo that discards hurry's from other players on that play.

and your sarcasm is noted.

Well don't bother asking PFR, they list right on their website exactly how they define them. But then they also note they get all of their statistics from SportsRadar. That's who you want to ask how they define/determine a hurry. PFR just presents the numbers they get and calculate.

I'll share this again, I know I have in the past.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... _stats.htm

image.png (49.57 KiB) Viewed 301 times

[Pckfn23]

Here it is directly from PFR: "I can't speak to what definition PFF uses for "pressure", but our pressures stat is the sum of hurries, QB knockdowns and sack plays. Hurries would be the most subjective variable there, and is described by our data provider, SportRadar, as "any play where the QB is induced to throw the ball earlier than intended or chased out of the pocket"."

[go pak go]

I can't wait until we get in depth on the PFF/PFR difference again during the bye week and then again before the combine, and them before FA when deciding what to do with the Smith boys, them again pre draft. Then again post draft.