Do we even want Rodgers back?

[texas]

The narrative I subscribe to isn't really a question of whether he is clutch or not- it's more like he gets into what others have termed "hero" mode, and when he does that he is easy to defend. We all know Hero Mode- it's when he refuses to throw to all but a couple guys and he likes them to get open like 30 yards downfield after the play breaks down and they all scramble around. This results in him being indecisive and he takes the sack. We often go 3 and out.

One way that teams have historically been able to turn his brain into Hero mode is by dropping a lot of guys into coverage so that none of our guys are obviously open. Rodgers' mental switch isn't always triggered by this, but it often is.

Rodgers is wired not to take risks, that's just how his brain is. So when defenses can trigger him to start playing on subconscious instincts like that, he automatically becomes indecisive and doesn't want to throw it. He can definitely consciously overrule his own tendencies but he has to devote his focus to that in the moment or else he slips back into habit. At this point, it is unlikely he will change his stripes because this tendency is sort of baked into the cake. What works against normal defenses in warm or moderate weather (his primal aversion to certain risks) does not work against tough defenses in the cold.

I remember MM talking about Rodgers' favored plays in 2007 when comparing them with Favre's. MM said that for Favre, their offense included a lot of slants because he liked those a lot. But with Aaron, MM said they drew up an offense with a lot of out routes to the sidelines, I guess because Aaron is less comfortable with risk.

At this point it is too late in his career to rewire his brain to make him embrace the discomfort of risks. This doesn't mean that we can't win the SB with him, but it does mean that "playoff Rodgers" almost certainly is always going to show up in January. That's another reason I'd like it if he had more designed runs. Deliberately exposing yourself to risk (in that case, getting hit) can be very effective at combating fear and discomfort. Treating your QB like an untouchable statue has psychological effects that probably make risk aversion worse.

[Raptorman]

why are you arguing something any simple minded school kid knows, anyone that doesn't know that a successful offense makes the job of a defense easier, should give up football and take up croque

Really? Exactly how? How has Rodgers made the Packers defense better the last 10 years? Why haven't they been as good as New Englands? Rodgers is a better QB than Brady. Hands down.

could it be that NE had better personal? or that Belichick is one of the best defensive minded coaches in NFL history.

the only thing that could be considered to hamper a defense is that the Packers with Rodgers have been a quick strike offense, so the defense doesn't get a chance to rest, even so, all is asked of them is to protect a lead, our issues on defense has been the lack of depth, almost every season from around 2016 on we have lost near complete position groups of adequate starters, that is the biggest reason our defenses have sucked until 2020.

for anyone to think having a good offense doesn't rub off to making the job easier for the defense makes no sense to me.

Wait, you just supported my point. Nothing you said answers my question. And just about everything you said supports it.

Oh, with the time of possession. That was tried. Go back and look at TOP over the years, it's not any great amount from year to year or even game to game.

[Raptorman]

You can't win if your HOF QB is gobbling up a huge chuck of your salary cap. He can't do it alone.

He also can’t do it when he has a great defense, a true #1 WR and a solid running game.

That leads me to believe that Rodgers just isn’t as good as people (me included) think he is. He needs an ELITE team to win.

I pointed to this a few posts up, but I think the core issue is that he's not able to rise up to that Elite level when it counts. Aside from a few epic moments (no denying those), he mostly has not been good in big games and/or clutch situations.

You all sound like Viking fans talking about Cousins. Who has something in common with Rodgers this year? They will both be watching the Super Bowl from the stands.


AS far as doing it with a great defense. He did it once, the year they won the Super Bowl. But he hasn't had a defense like that since. The two top Defenses for the Packers since 1992 were the years Favre and Rodgers won the Super Bowls. 13.1 ppg and 15.0 ppg. The best Defense Rodgers has had since then is 18.6 ppg. The following is a list of Packer teams since 92 sorted by PPG on defense. Notice which two seasons are on top?

Code: Select all

						Points						
Year	Tm                     	W	L	T		PF	PG	PA	PG	Dif		Passer
1996	Green Bay Packers*	13	3	0	Won SB	456	28.5	210	13.1	15.4		Favre
2010	Green Bay Packers*	10	6	0	Won SB	388	24.3	240	15.0	9.3		Rodgers
2001	Green Bay Packers*	12	4	0	Lost D	390	24.4	266	16.6	7.8		Favre
1997	Green Bay Packers*	13	3	0	Lost SB	422	26.4	282	17.6	8.8		Favre
1993	Green Bay Packers*	9	7	0	Lost D	340	21.3	282	17.6	3.6		Favre
1994	Green Bay Packers*	9	7	0	Lost D	382	23.9	287	17.9	5.9		Favre
2007	Green Bay Packers*	13	3	0	Lost C  435	27.2	291	18.2	9.0		Favre
1992	Green Bay Packers	9	7	0		276	17.3	296	18.5	-1.3		Favre
2009	Green Bay Packers*	11	5	0	Lost WC	461	28.8	297	18.6	10.3		Rodgers
2003	Green Bay Packers*	10	6	0	Lost D	442	27.6	307	19.2	8.4		Favre
2019	Green Bay Packers*	13	3	0	Lost C	376	23.5	313	19.6	3.9		Rodgers
1995	Green Bay Packers*	11	5	0	Lost C	404	25.3	314	19.6	5.6		Favre
1998	Green Bay Packers*	11	5	0	Lost WC	408	25.5	319	19.9	5.6		Favre
2015	Green Bay Packers*	10	6	0	Lost D	368	23.0	323	20.2	2.8		Rodgers
2000	Green Bay Packers	9	7	0		353	22.1	323	20.2	1.9		Favre
2002	Green Bay Packers*	12	4	0	Lost WC	398	24.9	328	20.5	4.4		Favre
2012	Green Bay Packers*	11	5	0	Lost D	433	27.1	336	21.0	6.1		Rodgers
1999	Green Bay Packers	8	8	0		357	22.3	341	21.3	1.0		Favre
2005	Green Bay Packers	4	12	0		298	18.6	344	21.5	-2.9		Favre
2014	Green Bay Packers*	12	4	0	Lost C	486	30.4	348	21.8	8.6		Rodgers
2021	Green Bay Packers	13	4	0		450	26.5	371	21.8	4.6		Rodgers
2011	Green Bay Packers*	15	1	0	Lost D	560	35.0	359	22.4	12.6		Rodgers
2006	Green Bay Packers	8	8	0		301	18.8	366	22.9	-4.1		Favre
2020	Green Bay Packers*	13	3	0	Lost C	509	31.8	369	23.1	8.8		Rodgers
2004	Green Bay Packers*	10	6	0	Lost WC	424	26.5	380	23.8	2.8		Favre
2008	Green Bay Packers	6	10	0		419	26.2	380	23.8	2.4		Rodgers
2017	Green Bay Packers	7	9	0		320	20.0	384	24.0	-4.0		Hundley
2016	Green Bay Packers*	10	6	0	Lost C	432	27.0	388	24.3	2.8		Rodgers
2018	Green Bay Packers	6	9	1		376	23.5	400	25.0	-1.5		Rodgers
2013	Green Bay Packers*	8	7	1	Lost WC	417	26.1	428	26.8	-0.7		Rodgers
							25.1		20.5	4.6		

[go pak go]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

[Foosball]

One thing that infuriated me, to the point of screaming at the tv, is Rodgers not throwing to the open short man on 1st and 2nd down and then on 3rd down he throws to the short man who can’t get to the sticks. Punt. Happened a few times during the game.

Second, I’ve notice he doesn’t hit receivers on the run. They have to stop, jump, or fall down to catch it. Say what you want about Garapolo, but he hits Samuel on the run most of the time (I live in Niner country).

Mahomes the same thing, he hits Hill on the run.

[Foosball]

Does anyone know the drop dead date for when Rodgers would need to be traded?

Just wondering how long we have to put up with the drama.

[go pak go]

Does anyone know the drop dead date for when Rodgers would need to be traded?

Just wondering how long we have to put up with the drama.

We will know by mid March of what is going on.

[wallyuwl]

I just hope it is kind of done behind the scenes, whatever the outcome. If he leaves the trade value is greatly diminished if he announces on McAfee, for example, he is done in GB before a trade is done.

[Pugger]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

But our not so Special Teams did us in. Our D gave up 6 points. That was championship caliber D. If we get that FG right before the half and they don't block that punt for a TD we are getting ready for the Rams this weekend.

[Pugger]

One thing that infuriated me, to the point of screaming at the tv, is Rodgers not throwing to the open short man on 1st and 2nd down and then on 3rd down he throws to the short man who can’t get to the sticks. Punt. Happened a few times during the game.

Second, I’ve notice he doesn’t hit receivers on the run. They have to stop, jump, or fall down to catch it. Say what you want about Garapolo, but he hits Samuel on the run most of the time (I live in Niner country).

Mahomes the same thing, he hits Hill on the run.

What makes one pull out your hair is during the regular season he did throw guys on the run.

[Raptorman]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

You do know the other team has a defense as well? But I wouldn't blame this game on the Defense or Rodgers. I'd blame it on special, or in this case, "Not-so-special" teams. They are the ones that really blew the game. In the playoffs, one bad mistake can cost you the game, and a blocked kick that turns into a TD is a killer in a game like this. I'd go so far to say one play cost the game for the Packers.

[wallyuwl]

One thing that infuriated me, to the point of screaming at the tv, is Rodgers not throwing to the open short man on 1st and 2nd down and then on 3rd down he throws to the short man who can’t get to the sticks. Punt. Happened a few times during the game.

Second, I’ve notice he doesn’t hit receivers on the run. They have to stop, jump, or fall down to catch it. Say what you want about Garapolo, but he hits Samuel on the run most of the time (I live in Niner country).

Mahomes the same thing, he hits Hill on the run.

AR was not sharp on Saturday. He picked a bad time for his worst game since week 1. He saw the field poorly as you indicated. But I think the fumble really made him focus even more on Adams. He decided Adams was the only guy he could trust in that moment. Once SF doubled Adams, AR reverted to just holding the ball.

[Scott4Pack]

I just hope it is kind of done behind the scenes, whatever the outcome. If he leaves the trade value is greatly diminished if he announces on McAfee, for example, he is done in GB before a trade is done.

Rodgers had said on Sunday that he would make a decision about his future before Free Agency. That would be so much less dramatic than last year. Eish!

[TheSkeptic]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

Exactly. Last weekend the Packers had the best D in the league.

And the worst ST

And a below average O

[TheSkeptic]

The idea that Rodgers would want to come back is ludicrous. He has no chance at winning a SB and he would have to take less money than another team would give him - along with a legitimate chance at a SB.

The idea that the Packers want Rodgers back is ludicrous. Why? The cap is real. The Packers have to gut the rest of the team to keep Rodgers. There is no way the team will be as good next season as they were this season.

The idea that the Packers can't win with Love is ludicrous. He is unproven but he has all the physical qualities necessary to be a top 5 QB. Will he achieve that - probably not. But any average QB can be on a SB winning team if he does not ruin the cap and it is a very good team. Does anyone here seriously think that SF has an above average QB? The SF QB got picked and should have been picked 3 more times, once by Stokes and Stokes scores a TD if he had just looked at the ball instead of the receiver. And guess, what, folks, SF is going to the Championship game with a below average QB while a better team with the league MVP watches. QB's do not win SB's. Teams win SB's. An average team with the league's best QB can't even get to the SB - Rodgers has proved that (although this season's team was a lot more than average). The best team with an average QB can. It is that simple.

[go pak go]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

You do know the other team has a defense as well? But I wouldn't blame this game on the Defense or Rodgers. I'd blame it on special, or in this case, "Not-so-special" teams. They are the ones that really blew the game. In the playoffs, one bad mistake can cost you the game, and a blocked kick that turns into a TD is a killer in a game like this. I'd go so far to say one play cost the game for the Packers.

I mean anyone can see that and say that. I have no problem saying the STs blew this game. Like duh....the STs allowed a KR to the 50 (setting up a 49ers FG), the STs had our FG blocked, and the STs had a punt blocked.

Like we all watched the game. We all know how historically bad and unforgiveable that is. We have all talked about the historic level of poor STs all season. We all wanted Drayton to be fired weeks ago.

But we also watched a game where the offense got one drive. If you can't expect your MVP to give you even 14 points (2 TDs) (even against a 3rd ranked defense)....then don't have an MVP on your team because it's a waste of resources.

Absolutely, unequivocally it is a disappointment that the league's MVP could not even produce two TD drives. The expectation with a top offense, even against a great defense, is 24 points. And so often the offense in big playoff games since the SB win has come short of that number. That is a massive disappointment.

And I'm not just pointing at the QB here. I'm pointing at the "veteran" who fumbled the ball. I'm pointing at the star RB who had an apparent clear lane to the EZ but saw ghosts and did the stupidest run after the catch I have ever seen.

I saw stupidity and choking from our most solid and trusted players now 2 years in a row on the biggest stage (Adams dropping an easy TD last year).

That's why I keep saying I look at every player and coach on the GB Packers, for the exception of everyone on the defense not named Kevin King, as absolute losers. I can't get that out of my head. They are just as much losers and choke artists as Coach Dennis Green and Gary Anderson. People that Packers fans love to make fun of.

When the game was on the line, Jimmy G stepped up and got his team into FG range. When the game has been on the line the last two years, Rodgers can't move the chains. These are just the facts that honest Packers fans have to deal with. And it is very hard to swallow.

But yes. I'm getting a little sick of the excuses for Rodgers "not having a top defense" and then changing the narrative to STs blowing it for him. Is it wrong for me to expect the MVP to help elevate and improve the odds of winning for his teammates rather than always wring your hands for the other way around?

If Jordan Love put on this performance last Sunday, he would be getting murdered right now. How do I know? Because literally the exact same thing happened this year vs the Chiefs. Love played a great Chiefs defense (seriously one of the best in the league in the 2nd half of the season), our defense played great and dropped an INT and the STs blew the game. And yet the large narrative is Love could only produce one TD drive; which is a valid point! But that same point needs to then be used here.

[TheSkeptic]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

You do know the other team has a defense as well? But I wouldn't blame this game on the Defense or Rodgers. I'd blame it on special, or in this case, "Not-so-special" teams. They are the ones that really blew the game. In the playoffs, one bad mistake can cost you the game, and a blocked kick that turns into a TD is a killer in a game like this. I'd go so far to say one play cost the game for the Packers.

I mean anyone can see that and say that. I have no problem saying the STs blew this game. Like duh....the STs allowed a KR to the 50 (setting up a 49ers FG), the STs had our FG blocked, and the STs had a punt blocked.

Like we all watched the game. We all know how historically bad and unforgiveable that is. We have all talked about the historic level of poor STs all season. We all wanted Drayton to be fired weeks ago.

But we also watched a game where the offense got one drive. If you can't expect your MVP to give you even 14 points (2 TDs) (even against a 3rd ranked defense)....then don't have an MVP on your team because it's a waste of resources.

Absolutely, unequivocally it is a disappointment that the league's MVP could not even produce two TD drives. The expectation with a top offense, even against a great defense, is 24 points. And so often the offense in big playoff games since the SB win has come short of that number. That is a massive disappointment.

And I'm not just pointing at the QB here. I'm pointing at the "veteran" who fumbled the ball. I'm pointing at the star RB who had an apparent clear lane to the EZ but saw ghosts and did the stupidest run after the catch I have ever seen.

I saw stupidity and choking from our most solid and trusted players now 2 years in a row on the biggest stage (Adams dropping an easy TD last year).

That's why I keep saying I look at every player and coach on the GB Packers, for the exception of everyone on the defense not named Kevin King, as absolute losers. I can't get that out of my head. They are just as much losers and choke artists as Coach Dennis Green and Gary Anderson. People that Packers fans love to make fun of.

When the game was on the line, Jimmy G stepped up and got his team into FG range. When the game has been on the line the last two years, Rodgers can't move the chains. These are just the facts that honest Packers fans have to deal with. And it is very hard to swallow.

But yes. I'm getting a little sick of the excuses for Rodgers "not having a top defense" and then changing the narrative to STs blowing it for him. Is it wrong for me to expect the MVP to help elevate and improve the odds of winning for his teammates rather than always wring your hands for the other way around?

If Jordan Love put on this performance last Sunday, he would be getting murdered right now. How do I know? Because literally the exact same thing happened this year vs the Chiefs. Love played a great Chiefs defense (seriously one of the best in the league in the 2nd half of the season), our defense played great and dropped an INT and the STs blew the game. And yet the large narrative is Love could only produce one TD drive; which is a valid point! But that same point needs to then be used here.

[Acrobat]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

You do know the other team has a defense as well? But I wouldn't blame this game on the Defense or Rodgers. I'd blame it on special, or in this case, "Not-so-special" teams. They are the ones that really blew the game. In the playoffs, one bad mistake can cost you the game, and a blocked kick that turns into a TD is a killer in a game like this. I'd go so far to say one play cost the game for the Packers.

I mean anyone can see that and say that. I have no problem saying the STs blew this game. Like duh....the STs allowed a KR to the 50 (setting up a 49ers FG), the STs had our FG blocked, and the STs had a punt blocked.

Like we all watched the game. We all know how historically bad and unforgiveable that is. We have all talked about the historic level of poor STs all season. We all wanted Drayton to be fired weeks ago.

But we also watched a game where the offense got one drive. If you can't expect your MVP to give you even 14 points (2 TDs) (even against a 3rd ranked defense)....then don't have an MVP on your team because it's a waste of resources.

Absolutely, unequivocally it is a disappointment that the league's MVP could not even produce two TD drives. The expectation with a top offense, even against a great defense, is 24 points. And so often the offense in big playoff games since the SB win has come short of that number. That is a massive disappointment.

And I'm not just pointing at the QB here. I'm pointing at the "veteran" who fumbled the ball. I'm pointing at the star RB who had an apparent clear lane to the EZ but saw ghosts and did the stupidest run after the catch I have ever seen.

I saw stupidity and choking from our most solid and trusted players now 2 years in a row on the biggest stage (Adams dropping an easy TD last year).

That's why I keep saying I look at every player and coach on the GB Packers, for the exception of everyone on the defense not named Kevin King, as absolute losers. I can't get that out of my head. They are just as much losers and choke artists as Coach Dennis Green and Gary Anderson. People that Packers fans love to make fun of.

When the game was on the line, Jimmy G stepped up and got his team into FG range. When the game has been on the line the last two years, Rodgers can't move the chains. These are just the facts that honest Packers fans have to deal with. And it is very hard to swallow.

But yes. I'm getting a little sick of the excuses for Rodgers "not having a top defense" and then changing the narrative to STs blowing it for him. Is it wrong for me to expect the MVP to help elevate and improve the odds of winning for his teammates rather than always wring your hands for the other way around?

If Jordan Love put on this performance last Sunday, he would be getting murdered right now. How do I know? Because literally the exact same thing happened this year vs the Chiefs. Love played a great Chiefs defense (seriously one of the best in the league in the 2nd half of the season), our defense played great and dropped an INT and the STs blew the game. And yet the large narrative is Love could only produce one TD drive; which is a valid point! But that same point needs to then be used here.

Thank you for saving me the time in responding to Raptor with this beautifully written post.

[Pugger]

From my perspective, the Packers had the best defense of the weekend and Rodgers couldn't get it done. That's all that matters. Not some numbers on a spreadsheet showing PPG to prove a point.

The defense showed up when they needed to show up.

You do know the other team has a defense as well? But I wouldn't blame this game on the Defense or Rodgers. I'd blame it on special, or in this case, "Not-so-special" teams. They are the ones that really blew the game. In the playoffs, one bad mistake can cost you the game, and a blocked kick that turns into a TD is a killer in a game like this. I'd go so far to say one play cost the game for the Packers.

I mean anyone can see that and say that. I have no problem saying the STs blew this game. Like duh....the STs allowed a KR to the 50 (setting up a 49ers FG), the STs had our FG blocked, and the STs had a punt blocked.

Like we all watched the game. We all know how historically bad and unforgiveable that is. We have all talked about the historic level of poor STs all season. We all wanted Drayton to be fired weeks ago.

But we also watched a game where the offense got one drive. If you can't expect your MVP to give you even 14 points (2 TDs) (even against a 3rd ranked defense)....then don't have an MVP on your team because it's a waste of resources.

Absolutely, unequivocally it is a disappointment that the league's MVP could not even produce two TD drives. The expectation with a top offense, even against a great defense, is 24 points. And so often the offense in big playoff games since the SB win has come short of that number. That is a massive disappointment.

And I'm not just pointing at the QB here. I'm pointing at the "veteran" who fumbled the ball. I'm pointing at the star RB who had an apparent clear lane to the EZ but saw ghosts and did the stupidest run after the catch I have ever seen.

I saw stupidity and choking from our most solid and trusted players now 2 years in a row on the biggest stage (Adams dropping an easy TD last year).

That's why I keep saying I look at every player and coach on the GB Packers, for the exception of everyone on the defense not named Kevin King, as absolute losers. I can't get that out of my head. They are just as much losers and choke artists as Coach Dennis Green and Gary Anderson. People that Packers fans love to make fun of.

When the game was on the line, Jimmy G stepped up and got his team into FG range. When the game has been on the line the last two years, Rodgers can't move the chains. These are just the facts that honest Packers fans have to deal with. And it is very hard to swallow.

But yes. I'm getting a little sick of the excuses for Rodgers "not having a top defense" and then changing the narrative to STs blowing it for him. Is it wrong for me to expect the MVP to help elevate and improve the odds of winning for his teammates rather than always wring your hands for the other way around?

If Jordan Love put on this performance last Sunday, he would be getting murdered right now. How do I know? Because literally the exact same thing happened this year vs the Chiefs. Love played a great Chiefs defense (seriously one of the best in the league in the 2nd half of the season), our defense played great and dropped an INT and the STs blew the game. And yet the large narrative is Love could only produce one TD drive; which is a valid point! But that same point needs to then be used here.

I suspect the reason we didn't excoriate Love after the Chief's game is because we didn't expect him to do much. But when the reigning (and most likely back to back) MVP plays like garbage for 3 quarters in an important playoff game at home again he is deserving of all of this A shrink would have a field day trying to figure out why Rodgers turns into Brett Hundley in the playoffs so often.

[go pak go]

I suspect the reason we didn't excoriate Love after the Chief's game is because we didn't expect him to do much.

I take it you haven't ventured on this forum much after the Chiefs game?