Rodgers future

[Labrev]

When he had Driver, Jennings, Jones, Jordy we won the superbowl. The next year with Cobb, Finley he had the greatest year of any QB.

Yeah, and you know what else? Rodgers was playing on a modest deal, so we could actually AFFORD a deep receiver corps. *and* a defense with enough talent to win (barely, two injuries to starters and it went from good to worst-ever because there was no depth).

Now, he's not playing for modest. He's playing on an elite QB contract, so he does not get the luxury of 2010-11 WR depth.

i.e. he has to do what elite QBs are supposed to do, win with less. Brady did it in 2018 with Edelman (who is way less of a threat than Adams) and a bunch of scrubs, Gronk on IR. Why can't Rodgers do that?

'Greatest year of any QB didn't win us a SuperBowl. It's almost like you need a *balanced* team to win or something, not just 7 all-pro receivers.

[/quote]2014 he had 2 receivers. Rookie Adams was not good. Those two receivers Cobb got 1300 yards and 12 tds and Nelson 1500 and 13 tds. He shared it between them.[/quote]

So MVS is not good and Rookie Adams was not good, but Jordy was "good" back in 2010 when his career-high was just 1 yard more than what MVS did as a rookie. Jordy and for that matter Jones both had a bad case of the dropsies early into their pro careers.

Oh and old man Driver who by 2010 was also producing less than MVS and Lazard. Wow, such a difference-maker.

This is so dumb

[texas]

This idea that we need to upgrade WR2 with guys like Odell Beckham, Justin Jefferson, or whoever our fans are clamoring for... disregards the reality that Rodgers simply does not look for anyone but his "go-to guy" the vast majority of the time.

So like, sure, maybe if WR2 was someone more explosive than Lazard, then those catches might result in more yardage than otherwise, but I have seen enough of how Rodgers plays to greatly doubt that he would target WR2 appreciably more enough to materially change anything. No, he would just lock onto Adams or whoever the WR1 is (like always).

In 2014, he had prime Cobb and a rookie Adams, then-solid WR3, to go with WR1 Jordy... and yet, that was still not enough for him. I'm not against this general exercise of: "If we had/done ___, we would have won" (*ahem* ST-COORD) but sorry, WR2 just ain't the issue.


That throw to double-covered Adams sums it up. If he is going to miss WIDE open guys -- indeed, literally every other eligible receiver -- to force-feed his WR1... what's even the point of a JJ, OBJ, or whoever else?

Was reading all the posts and was going to post this exact thing but you did so now I don;t have to.

But yeah, we sign Odell, and guess what happens against SF? 1 catch, 6 yards.

This was a problem early on for Rodgers too. I think I recall him even acknowledging it back when he was humble and didn't know it all. I want to say it was either Jermichael Finley or Ruvell Martin going down that caused him to spread it around a lot more, and when he did that I want to say he mentioned noticing that the offense did a lot better. But since that was a decade ago, he has probably forgotten. It's 100% his subconscious tendency though, just like it is his subconscious tendency to need to feel a relatively high amount of reassurance (when compared to his peers) before uncorking it when the pressure is on. When the pressure is on we revert to our tendencies more. And he happens to have some tendencies that make us lose. You can override your tendencies, but you have to focus on overriding them specifically.

[Labrev]

How can a receiver be on fire if he is not getting the ball lol.

Imagine acting dense about a game we all watched just last year lol.

MVS had 115 yards on only 4 catches on 6 targets (average 28.8 yards per catch), while Adams was targetted 15 times for 9 receptions averaging 7.4 yards. I thought you said Rodgers was great at spreading the ball around?

IS the argument really now moving to Rodgers being a bad QB?

That's more your position than mine.

What I actually said was he over-targets his WR1 (see above), not unlike a lot of bad QBs (not that he *is* a bad QB -- reading comprehension does not seem to be your strong suit), and that he actually plays best when he *doesn't* have a star receiver to throw to because then he actually goes through his progressions more efficiently.

Meanwhile, you insist that Rodgers does not have enough help unless he has at least four "good" (whatever that means) receivers like 2010 and 2011, even though we didn't actually win the SuperBowl one of those years or frankly even come close, and QBs on other teams win the SuperBowl with less pretty much every other year.

[bud fox]

When he had Driver, Jennings, Jones, Jordy we won the superbowl. The next year with Cobb, Finley he had the greatest year of any QB.

Yeah, and you know what else? Rodgers was playing on a modest deal, so we could actually AFFORD a deep receiver corps. *and* a defense with enough talent to win (barely, two injuries to starters and it went from good to worst-ever because there was no depth).

Now, he's not playing for modest. He's playing on an elite QB contract, so he does not get the luxury of 2010-11 WR depth.

i.e. he has to do what elite QBs are supposed to do, win with less. Brady did it in 2018 with Edelman (who is way less of a threat than Adams) and a bunch of scrubs, Gronk on IR. Why can't Rodgers do that?

'Greatest year of any QB didn't win us a SuperBowl. It's almost like you need a *balanced* team to win or something, not just 7 all-pro receivers.

2014 he had 2 receivers. Rookie Adams was not good. Those two receivers Cobb got 1300 yards and 12 tds and Nelson 1500 and 13 tds. He shared it between them.[/quote]

So MVS is not good and Rookie Adams was not good, but Jordy was "good" back in 2010 when his career-high was just 1 yard more than what MVS did as a rookie. Jordy and for that matter Jones both had a bad case of the dropsies early into their pro careers.

Oh and old man Driver who by 2010 was also producing less than MVS and Lazard. Wow, such a difference-maker.

This is so dumb
[/quote]

Rodgers salary is Jimmy G plus Kevin King. Would you take the value of Rodgers over Jimmy G and Kevin King?

[bud fox]

How can a receiver be on fire if he is not getting the ball lol.

Imagine acting dense about a game we all watched just last year lol.

MVS had 115 yards on only 4 catches on 6 targets (average 28.8 yards per catch), while Adams was targetted 15 times for 9 receptions averaging 7.4 yards. I thought you said Rodgers was great at spreading the ball around?

IS the argument really now moving to Rodgers being a bad QB?

That's more your position than mine.

What I actually said was he over-targets his WR1 (see above), not unlike a lot of bad QBs (not that he *is* a bad QB -- reading comprehension does not seem to be your strong suit), and that he actually plays best when he *doesn't* have a star receiver to throw to because then he actually goes through his progressions more efficiently.

Meanwhile, you insist that Rodgers does not have enough help unless he has at least four "good" (whatever that means) receivers like 2010 and 2011, even though we didn't actually win the SuperBowl one of those years or frankly even come close, and QBs on other teams win the SuperBowl with less pretty much every other year.

If you get the most targets you are the number 1 lol show me a number 1 receiver that doesn't get the most targets in their team.

I am pretty sure you started this whole conversation about Rodgers not having enough help. He doesn't. He passed to 18 different players this year.

Jimmy G has Aiyuk, Deebo and Kittle
Mahomes has Hill, Kelce, Hardman,
stafford has Kupp, Odell, Woods, Van Jefferson
Burrow has Chase, Higgins, Boyd

We have decided against giving Rodgers support because he is good enough to not need as he is better than everyone else. But maybe we shouldve given him some help outside of Adams. Maybe a Tee Higgins instead of Jordan Love.

[go pak go]

How can a receiver be on fire if he is not getting the ball lol.

IS the argument really now moving to Rodgers being a bad QB? 4 time mvp, SB Winner, SB MVP, the highest QB rating single season ever, 3 of the top 5 highest seasons ever.

This forum has gone nuts.

Why is this always a defense?

Lots of really good players don't step up in the postseason.
Brett Favre is a 3 time MVP, SB Champ, multi Pro Bowl and All Pro, generational player and yet people don't have an issue talking about his playoff woes.

Peyton Manning. Dan Marino. John Elway before 1997. Davante Adams is insanely good yet dropped a gimme TD. Julius Peppers is a team leader and yet was an idiot telling Burnett to slide with 5 minutes to go. Aaron Jones is a stud yet fumbled has had some head scratching playoff plays.

Nobody is saying Rodgers is bad. And my gawd nobody but you is comparing him or scoring him against Jimmy G But he did have 3 golden opportunity seasons to win it all and is 0-3 in them.

And it's getting a little old changing the excuse from "no defense" to no running game to "no 2 - 4 WR" etc. Etc.

Especially on the WR end when he had MVS a few times last year and overthrew and had Lazard wide open a few times and didn't throw or check downs and didn't take them.

That's not a Packer roster issue. That's not making the play when the play is there to be made.

All playoff legends have their moment. Rodgers has had his opportunity at those moments and simply didn't execute.

It's incredibly disappointing. The opportunity is done I'm GB. Time to move on and keep this great defense in tact and moving forward.

[TheSkeptic]

How can a receiver be on fire if he is not getting the ball lol.

Imagine acting dense about a game we all watched just last year lol.

MVS had 115 yards on only 4 catches on 6 targets (average 28.8 yards per catch), while Adams was targetted 15 times for 9 receptions averaging 7.4 yards. I thought you said Rodgers was great at spreading the ball around?

IS the argument really now moving to Rodgers being a bad QB?

That's more your position than mine.

What I actually said was he over-targets his WR1 (see above), not unlike a lot of bad QBs (not that he *is* a bad QB -- reading comprehension does not seem to be your strong suit), and that he actually plays best when he *doesn't* have a star receiver to throw to because then he actually goes through his progressions more efficiently.

Meanwhile, you insist that Rodgers does not have enough help unless he has at least four "good" (whatever that means) receivers like 2010 and 2011, even though we didn't actually win the SuperBowl one of those years or frankly even come close, and QBs on other teams win the SuperBowl with less pretty much every other year.

If you get the most targets you are the number 1 lol show me a number 1 receiver that doesn't get the most targets in their team.

I am pretty sure you started this whole conversation about Rodgers not having enough help. He doesn't. He passed to 18 different players this year.

Jimmy G has Aiyuk, Deebo and Kittle
Mahomes has Hill, Kelce, Hardman,
stafford has Kupp, Odell, Woods, Van Jefferson
Burrow has Chase, Higgins, Boyd

We have decided against giving Rodgers support because he is good enough to not need as he is better than everyone else. But maybe we shouldve given him some help outside of Adams. Maybe a Tee Higgins instead of Jordan Love.

It would not matter. Rodgers will still look great in the regular season and not show up ready, not lead and not perform in the playoffs.

If the Packers had not drafted Jordan Love, who will win a playoff game in the next few seasons? Because it sure as hell isn't going to be Rodgers.

[Yoop]

this is down right one of the stupidest arguments I ever heard.

1 great receiver equals double coverage.
2 great receivers equals over the top support for both, 2 high safety required
3 great receivers equals two high safety, some sort of cover 3 variant, or cover 4 quarters

whats beyond obvious is that a offense has a advantage over defense when adding more then ONE great receivers

it also helpes having more then one or even two because injury's happen, can people imagine how 2014 would have turned out ifr either of Cobb or Nelson would have had a season ending injury around the 5th game of the season, we probably wouldn't have even made the PO's, people that argue against the ability of Rodgers, and support this group of receivers we've had for the last 6 years are putting out a lot of effort trying to do so, I think the Packer FO owes you folks some sort of a award like maybe free Brats, or a pint, something

[TheSkeptic]

this is down right one of the stupidest arguments I ever heard.

1 great receiver equals double coverage.
2 great receivers equals over the top support for both, 2 high safety required
3 great receivers equals two high safety, some sort of cover 3 variant, or cover 4 quarters

whats beyond obvious is that a offense has a advantage over defense when adding more then ONE great receivers

it also helpes having more then one or even two because injury's happen, can people imagine how 2014 would have turned out ifr either of Cobb or Nelson would have had a season ending injury around the 5th game of the season, we probably wouldn't have even made the PO's, people that argue against the ability of Rodgers, and support this group of receivers we've had for the last 6 years are putting out a lot of effort trying to do so, I think the Packer FO owes you folks some sort of a award like maybe free Brats, or a pint, something

Nobody has 3 great receivers unless they put all their money into receivers and have a &%$@ Oline and D.

As to 2 great receivers, wait to see what MVS gets in FA and his stats next year before you decide that all the passes to him that were overthrown were his fault. A few seasons ago, he was dropping passes he should have caught, last season he caught what was catchable. A couple of seasons ago I was very critical of him but he fixed himself.

[go pak go]

it also helpes having more then one or even two because injury's happen, can people imagine how 2014 would have turned out ifr either of Cobb or Nelson would have had a season ending injury around the 5th game of the season, we probably wouldn't have even made the PO's

You mean like 2015 when we lost they receiver before week 1 and still made it to OT in the Divisional Round?

[Yoop]

2014, the ability of two go to receivers makes it easier for others to do well
Nelson 98 receptions, 1519 yrds
Cobb 91 rec. 1287 yrds
Adams 38 rec. 446 yrds
Quarless 29 rec. 323 yrds
Rick Rodgers 20 rec. 225 yrds

2015 shows that others did step up, and bringing james jones back was the biggest reason the loss of Nelson wasn't felt more

Cobb 79 rec. 829 yrds
James Jones 50 rec. 890 yrds
Adams 50 rec. 483 yrds
Rick Rodgers 58 rec. 510 yrds R ick was the super dooper out let guy it would seem

this refutes the opinion that Rodgers wont throw to a bunch of diff. receivers as long as the receivers get open and he trust them to be where he is planning to throw the ball.

as we can see, the last 4 finalist for a SB trophy this year have at least 3 very good receivers, and the last time we did was about 5 or 6 years ago.

Jimmy G has Aiyuk, Deebo and Kittle
Mahomes has Hill, Kelce, Hardman,
stafford has Kupp, Odell, Woods, Van Jefferson
Burrow has Chase, Higgins, Boyd

only Burrow is on a cheap rookie contract

[Pugger]

now where discussing firing Lafluer, insane where this convo is going, Lafluer ran out of offensive impact players, course never had enough in the first place, ya always want to have more then ya think you'll need because injury's happen, we lost Dillon, who is simply another receivers as well as a battering RB that gets first downs, Adams and Jones where doubled up and rarely did the other Receivers get open before the pass rush was getting to Rodgers, yes he missed a open Lazard, and a TE, but those where rare occasions.

Guty's answer to the need for a more impactful WR was drafting Amari Rodgers and bringing back the continuously injured Randal Cobb, Rodgers acts like he's dumber then a box of rocks, and Cobb can't be counted on to be healthy, Guty gets a miss on both guys, and we sure as hell could have used a better player then both became against the niner defense, Lafluer can only work with players provided.

Odell would have been a nice weapon to have in that game

I seriously doubt Odell ever wanted to come to GB. I believe his preferred team was the Rams all along.

[Pugger]

Lazard is Ruvell Martin with more targets.

Lazard is better than Martin ever was. I do think Lazard is miscast. He really be a TE instead of a WR.

[Drj820]

now where discussing firing Lafluer, insane where this convo is going, Lafluer ran out of offensive impact players, course never had enough in the first place, ya always want to have more then ya think you'll need because injury's happen, we lost Dillon, who is simply another receivers as well as a battering RB that gets first downs, Adams and Jones where doubled up and rarely did the other Receivers get open before the pass rush was getting to Rodgers, yes he missed a open Lazard, and a TE, but those where rare occasions.

Guty's answer to the need for a more impactful WR was drafting Amari Rodgers and bringing back the continuously injured Randal Cobb, Rodgers acts like he's dumber then a box of rocks, and Cobb can't be counted on to be healthy, Guty gets a miss on both guys, and we sure as hell could have used a better player then both became against the niner defense, Lafluer can only work with players provided.

Odell would have been a nice weapon to have in that game

I seriously doubt Odell ever wanted to come to GB. I believe his preferred team was the Rams all along.

i just dont see how we can know that. I think he wanted to go somewhere that wanted him, where he could win, and where he could produce so he can get lined up for a new contract next year. Rams convinced him they could offer him those things, we did not put forth much effort as demonstrated throughout the thread.

[NCF]

i just dont see how we can know that. I think he wanted to go somewhere that wanted him, where he could win, and where he could produce so he can get lined up for a new contract next year. Rams convinced him they could offer him those things, we did not put forth much effort as demonstrated throughout the thread.

It was broadly reported immediately upon his signing that he didn't want to come here. This situation is a case in revisionist history. In hindsight, we screwed up. In real time, the Packers interest was only luke warm because that is all that it should have been. Many thought OBJ was done. Media, teams, etc. It was a pretty clear consensus with a few detractors. Are the Rams even more than slightly interested if Woods doesn't pop an ACL? OBJ to the Rams was set up by circumstances. I think they are reaping rewards that even they didn't expect.

[Drj820]

In real time, the Packers interest was only luke warm because that is all that it should have been.

Couldnt have said it better myself. There WAS more we could have done, and he was an option to us...but our effort was only luke warm.

Mostly because we thought he may come in and rock the boat, and also because many thought he had become a bum

I agree with you!

[BF004]

This is amazing if you actually read through it all.

[Drj820]

the only reason the packers would bring back Rodgers is if they are terrified about life without him. Cant say I blame them for that though.

But all this talk from Murphy, Gutey, and Lacoach about being unified in wanting him back is either PR to not get blamed for letting the MVP escape the building, or they are scared.

[Acrobat]

the only reason the packers would bring back Rodgers is if they are terrified about life without him. Cant say I blame them for that though.

But all this talk from Murphy, Gutey, and Lacoach about being unified in wanting him back is either PR to not get blamed for letting the MVP escape the building, or they are scared.

Yeah it's really tough right now to tell if it's PR or genuine. In reality, both parties may realize that their legacies all look better if it looks like a cordial/mutual breakup. Neither Peyton Manning or the Colts got negative press for the breakup. That was text book right there and both sides came out looking good. Obviously, Andrew Luck didn't work out long term with the surprise retirement, but he looked like the real deal and I thought he was for sure going to bring a trophy to the Colts.

Also, and I know tanking is a sore subject right now, but I still think trading Rodgers is the way to go. If Love Stinks (yeah yeah), the Packers are going to be baaaaaad next year, and then have the draft capital to potentially draft #1 overall in 2023. I will gladly sacrifice one bad year for the #1 overall pick and get the top QB.

[Pckfn23]

Ya, there are a few more reasons to bring back Rodgers others than the trolly notion that they are terrified of life without him... Same with the trolly notion about not getting blamed or scared as the only reasons for the wanting him back talk...