SB Thread

[Drj820]

Well, maybe I should have said, "He stepped into a team loaded with talent just like Brady did in Tampa".

i think all of this is about suggesting that Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, AND COUSINS are all the same...just the team around them carried them to different heights.

There are many reasons this isnt true...but I will point one out now.

1) Rodgers has been on the same team his whole career. His team has been built with him in mind for over a decade. Though he only has one ring...He and his team have been contenders often and division front runners almost every year.

2) Same for Brady for many years..until he left and joined a team and elevated that team to the super bowl.
3) Stafford..after resigning with the Lions a couple of times...picks his destination and elevates that team to a super bowl.

4) Then cousins...he hand picks his destination...where he then leads his teams to 8-7-1, 10-5-1, 7-9, and 8-8. Point being...Brady and Stafford left town and elevated their teams. Cousins chose his destination and hasnt really elevated anything.

Cousins is a fine quarterback...He is no Rodgers or Brady...and now...not even a Stafford.

You lost me when you said Brady elevated the Bucs.

The Bucs missed the playoffs the year before Brady arrived. They weren’t a championship team.

[Raptorman]

i think all of this is about suggesting that Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, AND COUSINS are all the same...just the team around them carried them to different heights.

There are many reasons this isnt true...but I will point one out now.

1) Rodgers has been on the same team his whole career. His team has been built with him in mind for over a decade. Though he only has one ring...He and his team have been contenders often and division front runners almost every year.

2) Same for Brady for many years..until he left and joined a team and elevated that team to the super bowl.
3) Stafford..after resigning with the Lions a couple of times...picks his destination and elevates that team to a super bowl.

4) Then cousins...he hand picks his destination...where he then leads his teams to 8-7-1, 10-5-1, 7-9, and 8-8. Point being...Brady and Stafford left town and elevated their teams. Cousins chose his destination and hasnt really elevated anything.

Cousins is a fine quarterback...He is no Rodgers or Brady...and now...not even a Stafford.

You lost me when you said Brady elevated the Bucs.

The Bucs missed the playoffs the year before Brady arrived. They weren’t a championship team.

Right. Major turnovers on the starters from 2020 to 2019.
And oh, this has nothing to do with Cousins. Which is why I never brought him up.

Code: Select all

Player		Pos		Player
Offensive Starters				Offensive Starters
Tom Brady		QB		Jameis Winston
Ronald Jones II		RB		Ronald Jones II
Mike Evans		WR		Mike Evans*
Chris Godwin		WR		Chris Godwin*
Scott Miller		TE		Cameron Brate
Rob Gronkowski		TE		O.J. Howard
Donovan Smith		LT		Donovan Smith
Ali Marpet		LG		Ali Marpet
Ryan Jensen		C		Ryan Jensen
Alex Cappa		RG		Alex Cappa
Tristan Wirfs		RT		Demar Dotson
Defensive Starters				Defensive Starters
Ndamukong Suh		LDE		Ndamukong Suh
Rakeem Nunez-Roches	NT		Vita Vea
William Gholston	RDE		William Gholston
Jason Pierre-Paul	LOLB		Jason Pierre-Paul
Devin White		LILB		Devin White
Lavonte David		RILB		Lavonte David
Shaquil Barrett		ROLB		Shaquil Barrett*
Carlton Davis		LCB		Carlton Davis
Sean Murphy-Bunting	RCB		Vernon Hargreaves III
Antoine Winfield Jr.    SS		Andrew Adams
Jordan Whitehead	FS		Jordan Whitehead

[go pak go]

We won!!

Clearly it was Aaron Jones’s fault we lost in the divisional round. He’s paid way too much to be a SB winning RB.

Actually he is about average compared to that list! His base salary was $1,000,000 in 2021. May I point your ire in the direction of Mark Murphy or Ted Thompson or Dom Capers or the 3 stooges or Aaron Rodgers or...

It's kind of a weirdly compiled list. It's not wrong, but a bit deceiving. It works really well until you get to Percy Harvin who's contract average in 2013 was $10,707,500. Ray Rice, $7,700,000. Ahmad Bradshaw $4,500,000.

Yeah I don't understand this list at all.

I don't like it when people intentionally misinform or withhold data to try and "prove some weird point"

[go pak go]

Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.

But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.

That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.

The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.

Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.

[Yoop]

Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.

But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.

That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.

The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.

Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.

you keep saying the Packers did it for Rodgers, and you know that is not true, the Packers to there credit finally fixed the defense, and the running game, they did not fix the special teams which certainly have not been special for years now, nor did they make much of a effort to improve the WR position, both the Chiefs and Bengals as well as Tampa, the Rams gave there QB's multiple receivers to compete with, we gave Rodgers Adams back in 2014, and not much else since then, that stuff matters, it allows a offense more diversity, makes it easier to build passing schemes, and takes some of the pressure off the QB's.

only one team gets to win, when your up against a talented passing scheme the QB with the most impact players is going to have a advantage.

we can argue Rodgers should have seen and thrown to Lazard till hell freezes over, in reality though it shouldn't have came down to the last play of the game, give Rodgers simply a better #2 receiver and it probably wouldn't have, this idea that Rodgers had enough talent to win is nothing but blame chasing, 7 freaking years the FO gave him the 3 stooges, and Amari Rodgers, that imho is a insult.

your clamoring on about Rodgers being in position to win it all about 7 times in the last 11 years is also simply making excuses for Rodgers letting the team down is also bull, he had lousy ST's and putrid defenses for most of those years, even when he had some very good receivers during some of em, what we know is this, ya need a bit better defense then we had for those offenses to do enough to win, look at all the shoot out contest we lost, we lost because the defense couldn't hold a lead.

I really hope now that we trade Rodgers, I'am so fed up with people here blaming him for front office mistakes and poor management.

[go pak go]

^^^^

yoop. Isn't all you can ask for as a starting QB is to have the ball in your hands at the end of the game to go ahead and either tie or win it? Isn't that what every kid dreams of?

People complained incessantly in 2014 and 2015 that Rodgers lost games without even getting to touch the ball.

Well this year and last year he got to touch the ball to either tie or take the lead and he didn't. Just like Mahommes with the Chiefs, Burrow with the Bengals, etc. Why don't you have a problem with the Chiefs or Bengals statements?

If you can't be the leader and take advantage of those opportunities, then you need to have a change in team philosophy to not have a high priced QB but instead allocate more to your running game, defense and STs.

[go pak go]

we can argue Rodgers should have seen and thrown to Lazard till hell freezes over, in reality though it shouldn't have came down to the last play of the game, give Rodgers simply a better #2 receiver and it probably wouldn't have, this idea that Rodgers had enough talent to win is nothing but blame chasing, 7 freaking years the FO gave him the 3 stooges, and Amari Rodgers, that imho is a insult.

ironic. How is the assertion of #2 or #3 WR also not blame chasing?

It's just a different blame direction.

[BF004]

2011-2015, probably had the best WR corps in the NFL.

Also got us nada.



Never a single answer.


Yes, I am not a fan of neglecting WR like we did and certainly a quality WR in the first round in lieu of Love or maybe even getting OBJ could have made a big enough difference to win the SF game. 2 more games after that, who knows.


Everyone just quit being an idiot and speaking in absolutes.

[Yoop]

2011-2015, probably had the best WR corps in the NFL.

Also got us nada.



Never a single answer.


Yes, I am not a fan of neglecting WR like we did and certainly a quality WR in the first round in lieu of Love or maybe even getting OBJ could have made a big enough difference to win the SF game. 2 more games after that, who knows.


Everyone just quit being an idiot and speaking in absolutes.

read this, it's very informative, and the reason I lay less blame on Rodgers, the guy has had 2 strikes against him for the last 10 years, towards the bottom is a list of adoz or more reasons we've put to much blame on Rodgers for some of our losses.
and there are plenty of other articles that point to these same conclusions.
https://zonecoverage.com/2021/packers/a ... or-special

this is his closing statement, the synop is to me that for the last 10 years we've made it harder to win it all and depended on miracles from Rodgers

I don’t feel great about calling attention to the negative. After all, the hallmark of any Packers fan experience is the unity we feel when cheering on our green and gold. And I’m most certainly not implying that the team itself has been bad the last decade. They’ve won seven out of the last 10 NFC North titles and have appeared in 17 playoff games in a decade.

The sum of their parts has made them a very competitive team. But as history reflects on the Rodgers era, the answer to why they didn’t win more than one championship will undoubtedly focus on not building highly competitive special teams and defense around their prolific offense.

Imagine the glory that could have come had Rodgers, like Brady, had a few top-five defenses and a few top-10 special teams units. It could have been magic.

[Pckfn23]

You seem to be under the erroneous impression that "blame" can not be placed on more than 1 or 2 things at a time... It is entirely possible that defense, special teams, the front office, and QB1 shoulder some responsibility for a loss...

[Yoop]

You seem to be under the erroneous impression that "blame" can not be placed on more than 1 or 2 things at a time... It is entirely possible that defense, special teams, the front office, and QB1 shoulder some responsibility for a loss...

well obviously some blame can be attributed to several diff things, WR just being one of em, beyond terrible ST's is another obvious one, or have you forgotten B O S tick ? and putrid mediocre defense sure didn't help matters, these are reality's that any football fan should accept.

[Pckfn23]

You seem to be under the erroneous impression that "blame" can not be placed on more than 1 or 2 things at a time... It is entirely possible that defense, special teams, the front office, and QB1 shoulder some responsibility for a loss...

well obviously some blame can be attributed to several diff things, WR just being one of em, beyond terrible ST's is another obvious one, or have you forgotten B O S tick ? and putrid mediocre defense sure didn't help matters, these are reality's that any football fan should accept.

Except you can't accept it... You CONTINUE to CONSTANTLY blame everything else and leave out 1 important aspect even when evidence is presented to you that that aspect did shoulder blame.

[BF004]

2011-2015, probably had the best WR corps in the NFL.

Also got us nada.



Never a single answer.


Yes, I am not a fan of neglecting WR like we did and certainly a quality WR in the first round in lieu of Love or maybe even getting OBJ could have made a big enough difference to win the SF game. 2 more games after that, who knows.


Everyone just quit being an idiot and speaking in absolutes.

read this, it's very informative, and the reason I lay less blame on Rodgers, the guy has had 2 strikes against him for the last 10 years, towards the bottom is a list of adoz or more reasons we've put to much blame on Rodgers for some of our losses.
and there are plenty of other articles that point to these same conclusions.
https://zonecoverage.com/2021/packers/a ... or-special

The thing is, other than a few fringe posters who's opinions shouldn't be taken with any gravity, people aren't putting undue burden on Aaron. You read it as such, but they simply aren't.

Everyone worth listening too of course will admit our defense, special teams have been trash and the primary reasons for our January downfalls. Everyone admits the countless bonehead plays by players sprinkled throughout this past game and other games.

Yet to acknowledge Aaron is also on the list of reasons we failed to win isn't putting excessive blame on Aaron. When two years in a row, he has the ball in his hands in the final five minutes. In home playoff games, and can't get the points we need. When we just watched Matt Stafford do it in the same situation with a lesser OL, lesser RB's, garbage WR's outside of Kupp (due to injury's). It can be done and you would hope in that situation the best football player on the planet can pull off some magic at the biggest point in the season.

That is NOT putting exclusive blame on Aaron, yet that is always how you read it. We've had at worst a top 3 regular season offense the past two years, likely the BEST, so blaming it on lack of talent can not be true. Of course we can still have more talent and be better. Drafting Love did not help our WR core.

Long story short, plenty of blame. Simply adding Aaron to that list does not make it excessive blame on Aaron. So don't get 'fed up with people blaming him'. Read what people wrote, all of what they wrote, and feel free to ignore the idiots.

[Pugger]

Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.

But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.

That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.

The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.

Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.

you keep saying the Packers did it for Rodgers, and you know that is not true, the Packers to there credit finally fixed the defense, and the running game, they did not fix the special teams which certainly have not been special for years now, nor did they make much of a effort to improve the WR position, both the Chiefs and Bengals as well as Tampa, the Rams gave there QB's multiple receivers to compete with, we gave Rodgers Adams back in 2014, and not much else since then, that stuff matters, it allows a offense more diversity, makes it easier to build passing schemes, and takes some of the pressure off the QB's.

only one team gets to win, when your up against a talented passing scheme the QB with the most impact players is going to have a advantage.

we can argue Rodgers should have seen and thrown to Lazard till hell freezes over, in reality though it shouldn't have came down to the last play of the game, give Rodgers simply a better #2 receiver and it probably wouldn't have, this idea that Rodgers had enough talent to win is nothing but blame chasing, 7 freaking years the FO gave him the 3 stooges, and Amari Rodgers, that imho is a insult.

your clamoring on about Rodgers being in position to win it all about 7 times in the last 11 years is also simply making excuses for Rodgers letting the team down is also bull, he had lousy ST's and putrid defenses for most of those years, even when he had some very good receivers during some of em, what we know is this, ya need a bit better defense then we had for those offenses to do enough to win, look at all the shoot out contest we lost, we lost because the defense couldn't hold a lead.

I really hope now that we trade Rodgers, I'am so fed up with people here blaming him for front office mistakes and poor management.

In that divisional playoff game we didn't need Rodgers to be Godgers. Neither offense scored a lot. Unfortunately for us our not so ST was the major contributor to that loss IMO. Our D was fabulous. It only ceded 6 points. The difference in that game was a blocked FG and blocked punt which gave SF a TD. I hope our new ST coordinator can improve that unit no matter who our QB is this year. Just getting them to be average will be a gigantic upgrade over the mess we had in 2021.

[Drj820]

I dont watch the cutups of plays and let that make me absolve Lafleur because Rodgers missed plays. It was a small handful of plays that were available that Rodgers whiffed on. He deserves blame for that.

But where were the motions? The creativity? A trick play to provide a spark? Anything!!

The coach needs to come to these games more prepared and coach a better game. I think he deserves alot of the blame for only the defense being ready to win this game. The O looked great early while working through the initial game script, what happened after that?

[Pugger]

2011-2015, probably had the best WR corps in the NFL.

Also got us nada.



Never a single answer.


Yes, I am not a fan of neglecting WR like we did and certainly a quality WR in the first round in lieu of Love or maybe even getting OBJ could have made a big enough difference to win the SF game. 2 more games after that, who knows.


Everyone just quit being an idiot and speaking in absolutes.

read this, it's very informative, and the reason I lay less blame on Rodgers, the guy has had 2 strikes against him for the last 10 years, towards the bottom is a list of adoz or more reasons we've put to much blame on Rodgers for some of our losses.
and there are plenty of other articles that point to these same conclusions.
https://zonecoverage.com/2021/packers/a ... or-special

The thing is, other than a few fringe posters who's opinions shouldn't be taken with any gravity, people aren't putting undue burden on Aaron. You read it as such, but they simply aren't.

Everyone worth listening too of course will admit our defense, special teams have been trash and the primary reasons for our January downfalls. Everyone admits the countless bonehead plays by players sprinkled throughout this past game and other games.

Yet to acknowledge Aaron is also on the list of reasons we failed to win isn't putting excessive blame on Aaron. When two years in a row, he has the ball in his hands in the final five minutes. In home playoff games, and can't get the points we need. When we just watched Matt Stafford do it in the same situation with a lesser OL, lesser RB's, garbage WR's outside of Kupp (due to injury's). It can be done and you would hope in that situation the best football player on the planet can pull off some magic at the biggest point in the season.

That is NOT putting exclusive blame on Aaron, yet that is always how you read it. We've had at worst a top 3 regular season offense the past two years, likely the BEST, so blaming it on lack of talent can not be true. Of course we can still have more talent and be better. Drafting Love did not help our WR core.

Long story short, plenty of blame. Simply adding Aaron to that list does not make it excessive blame on Aaron. So don't get 'fed up with people blaming him'. Read what people wrote, all of what they wrote, and feel free to ignore the idiots.

I hope anyone who read my last post doesn't get the impression I am not putting any blame for that loss on Rodgers. He clearly didn't play well. I still put most of the blame on ST.

[Pckfn23]

I dont watch the cutups of plays and let that make me absolve Lafleur because Rodgers missed plays. It was a small handful of plays that were available that Rodgers whiffed on. He deserves blame for that.

But where were the motions? The creativity? A trick play to provide a spark? Anything!!

The coach needs to come to these games more prepared and coach a better game. I think he deserves alot of the blame for only the defense being ready to win this game. The O looked great early while working through the initial game script, what happened after that?

Who is absolving LaFluer?

[Yoop]

I dont watch the cutups of plays and let that make me absolve Lafleur because Rodgers missed plays. It was a small handful of plays that were available that Rodgers whiffed on. He deserves blame for that.

But where were the motions? The creativity? A trick play to provide a spark? Anything!!

The coach needs to come to these games more prepared and coach a better game. I think he deserves alot of the blame for only the defense being ready to win this game. The O looked great early while working through the initial game script, what happened after that?

this brings us full circle right back to not having the needed players to be able to open the whole play book, we lost our gadget type players needed for the jet sweeps and motion to be affective early in the season, sure we had Jones who did a little of it, when we use Adams as a slot receiver he is doubled, and sometimes is even chipped with the play side lber, defenses can get away with that because we have no other receivers that demand over the top support, except MVS, who was injured most of the season.

I know I sound like a broken record here harping on the lack of impact offensive players, but it's true, if ya don't have the players then it shrinks the play book, sure Lafluer could have maybe done something else, but what?

[NCF]

I dont watch the cutups of plays and let that make me absolve Lafleur because Rodgers missed plays. It was a small handful of plays that were available that Rodgers whiffed on. He deserves blame for that.

But where were the motions? The creativity? A trick play to provide a spark? Anything!!

The coach needs to come to these games more prepared and coach a better game. I think he deserves alot of the blame for only the defense being ready to win this game. The O looked great early while working through the initial game script, what happened after that?

this brings us full circle right back to not having the needed players to be able to open the whole play book, we lost our gadget type players needed for the jet sweeps and motion to be affective early in the season, sure we had Jones who did a little of it, when we use Adams as a slot receiver he is doubled, and sometimes is even chipped with the play side lber, defenses can get away with that because we have no other receivers that demand over the top support, except MVS, who was injured most of the season.

I know I sound like a broken record here harping on the lack of impact offensive players, but it's true, if ya don't have the players then it shrinks the play book, sure Lafluer could have maybe done something else, but what?

This isn't entirely true, though. It's not that they didn't have the players (maybe it partially is), but more that they prioritizing playing Randall Cobb as WR3 over a lot of the other personnel packages they had used in previous years. As you said, they had used Jones before... with Dillon's emergence, they could have done A LOT more with Dillon and Jones on the field at the same time, but they didn't.

[BF004]

I just think most will argue, this doesn't scream 'lack of talent'

image.png (193.83 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Could we have possibly had one more good player? Sure. But pointing to lack of talent of offense as a primary reason for our shortcomings is a really really hard sell.