From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
I dont watch the cutups of plays and let that make me absolve Lafleur because Rodgers missed plays. It was a small handful of plays that were available that Rodgers whiffed on. He deserves blame for that.
But where were the motions? The creativity? A trick play to provide a spark? Anything!!
The coach needs to come to these games more prepared and coach a better game. I think he deserves alot of the blame for only the defense being ready to win this game. The O looked great early while working through the initial game script, what happened after that?
this brings us full circle right back to not having the needed players to be able to open the whole play book, we lost our gadget type players needed for the jet sweeps and motion to be affective early in the season, sure we had Jones who did a little of it, when we use Adams as a slot receiver he is doubled, and sometimes is even chipped with the play side lber, defenses can get away with that because we have no other receivers that demand over the top support, except MVS, who was injured most of the season.
I know I sound like a broken record here harping on the lack of impact offensive players, but it's true, if ya don't have the players then it shrinks the play book, sure Lafluer could have maybe done something else, but what?
This isn't entirely true, though. It's not that they didn't have the players (maybe it partially is), but more that they prioritizing playing Randall Cobb as WR3 over a lot of the other personnel packages they had used in previous years. As you said, they had used Jones before... with Dillon's emergence, they could have done A LOT more with Dillon and Jones on the field at the same time, but they didn't.
that may have happened, but who knows if anything like that was ever practiced, remember Jones was hurt some during the season, and what did you see from Cobb that showed any of the speed needed to pull off jet sweeps, same with Amari Rodgers, it takes speed and agility, Hill had that, and that other guy that was hurt, after those two who else was there? we tried it once with I'am thinking it was Brown, the defense didn't even shift for him, for that stuff to work ya have to have some prior success, just my opinion, and maybe we tried it with others that I don't remember.
I don't get why the NFL was so desperate to get back to LA, especially two teams. The public there doesn't care about football or sports in general. When the Rams suck in two years because of salary cap the stadium will be 40% empty on gameday. USC and Lakers are cared about, maybe. The $$$ is in tv and viewership (advertising) and LA doesn't deliver in viewers.
Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.
But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.
That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.
The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.
Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.
Never said the QB doesn't matter. But they don't matter as much as people think they do. So tell us, the final 2 plays of the Super Bowl, was it Stafford and Kupp sealing the deal?
And on another note, why did it take until the final drive for the Rams to take the lead again? What about the 3, 3 and outs before that drive? They don't count against the QB? Oh, wait that was the other team's defense. I always love it, people will talk about how great Brady is, but when another QB has a good defense and they win the Super Bowl, it's always a defensive win. Only certain QB's get to claim victory in the SB. Rodgers gets to, even though his defense was top of the line that year. Brady gets too. Stafford, now. But guys like Wilson and Flacco, nope they don't get to. Because it was their defense that won it for them.
Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.
But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.
That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.
The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.
Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.
Never said the QB doesn't matter. But they don't matter as much as people think they do. So tell us, the final 2 plays of the Super Bowl, was it Stafford and Kupp sealing the deal?
And on another note, why did it take until the final drive for the Rams to take the lead again? What about the 3, 3 and outs before that drive? They don't count against the QB? Oh, wait that was the other team's defense. I always love it, people will talk about how great Brady is, but when another QB has a good defense and they win the Super Bowl, it's always a defensive win. Only certain QB's get to claim victory in the SB. Rodgers gets to, even though his defense was top of the line that year. Brady gets too. Stafford, now. But guys like Wilson and Flacco, nope they don't get to. Because it was their defense that won it for them.
Joe Flacco received tons of praise after the Ravens won in 2012 and it was much deserved. He played amazing both in the Super Bowl and in the playoffs, showing up when it mattered and elevated his game. He was the difference maker in that playoff run.
How about it takes an entire team to win a Super Bowl?! $%@# novel idea, I know! It isn't just the defense. It isn't just the offense. It isn't just the special teams. It isn't just the coach. It isn't just the QB.
Why the $%@# do some always want to deal in absolutes both in what they think they read or what they type...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
How about it takes an entire team to win a Super Bowl?! $%@# novel idea, I know! It isn't just the defense. It isn't just the offense. It isn't just the special teams. It isn't just the coach. It isn't just the QB.
Why the $%@# do some always want to deal in absolutes both in what they think they read or what they type...
I mean, the latest game is all the evidence it should take. If they don't throw the flag on Cincy in the red zone, their chances of winning that game were very high. Then, what is everyone saying about the Rams?
In so many ways being the last one standing absolves every flaw a team has, rightfully so or not.
Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.
But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.
That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.
The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.
Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.
Never said the QB doesn't matter. But they don't matter as much as people think they do. So tell us, the final 2 plays of the Super Bowl, was it Stafford and Kupp sealing the deal?
And on another note, why did it take until the final drive for the Rams to take the lead again? What about the 3, 3 and outs before that drive? They don't count against the QB? Oh, wait that was the other team's defense. I always love it, people will talk about how great Brady is, but when another QB has a good defense and they win the Super Bowl, it's always a defensive win. Only certain QB's get to claim victory in the SB. Rodgers gets to, even though his defense was top of the line that year. Brady gets too. Stafford, now. But guys like Wilson and Flacco, nope they don't get to. Because it was their defense that won it for them.
I give credit to Brady because he has 7 freaking rings. More than any team in the NFL. Not player. Team.
At some point you win so many of these that you can't ignore that.
You can disect certain years, lucky breaks, "cheating" etc. for Brady like you can make excuses for each year of why Rodgers hasn't won since 2010, but the overarching data is Brady has won a sh*t ton when it mattered and Rodgers has lost a sh*t ton when it mattered. I can't reconcile that beyond just stating some guys are better leaders. Brady's success as a leader is unquestionable.
As far as the other stuff, I completely agree that the 2010 win was more about our defense than it was Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers played a legendary Divisional game and great SB, but the defense also created multiple turnovers in every playoff game and scored a defensive TD every game after the Wildcard win. The only game where the defense didn't have to bail out the Packers because the offense didn't seal it was the Divisional Round game. Otherwise every other game our offense had a chance to seal the win but failed to do so.
But I am in agreement with you. The league has turned QB obsessed and I think people on this board are starting to see a correlation of too much resource into the QB position is counterproductive in terms of winning a Title. We have talked about this a lot on this board. And it is the primary reason I want to move on from #12. Paying him even the same we are paying him now won't get us any closer to a ring than the failed attempts we experienced in 2019, 2020 and 2021.
Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.
But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.
That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.
The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.
Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.
Never said the QB doesn't matter. But they don't matter as much as people think they do. So tell us, the final 2 plays of the Super Bowl, was it Stafford and Kupp sealing the deal?
And on another note, why did it take until the final drive for the Rams to take the lead again? What about the 3, 3 and outs before that drive? They don't count against the QB? Oh, wait that was the other team's defense. I always love it, people will talk about how great Brady is, but when another QB has a good defense and they win the Super Bowl, it's always a defensive win. Only certain QB's get to claim victory in the SB. Rodgers gets to, even though his defense was top of the line that year. Brady gets too. Stafford, now. But guys like Wilson and Flacco, nope they don't get to. Because it was their defense that won it for them.
I give credit to Brady because he has 7 freaking rings. More than any team in the NFL. Not player. Team.
At some point you win so many of these that you can't ignore that.
You can disect certain years, lucky breaks, "cheating" etc. for Brady like you can make excuses for each year of why Rodgers hasn't won since 2010, but the overarching data is Brady has won a sh*t ton when it mattered and Rodgers has lost a sh*t ton when it mattered. I can't reconcile that beyond just stating some guys are better leaders. Brady's success as a leader is unquestionable.
As far as the other stuff, I completely agree that the 2010 win was more about our defense than it was Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers played a legendary Divisional game and great SB, but the defense also created multiple turnovers in every playoff game and scored a defensive TD every game after the Wildcard win. The only game where the defense didn't have to bail out the Packers because the offense didn't seal it was the Divisional Round game. Otherwise every other game our offense had a chance to seal the win but failed to do so.
But I am in agreement with you. The league has turned QB obsessed and I think people on this board are starting to see a correlation of too much resource into the QB position is counterproductive in terms of winning a Title. We have talked about this a lot on this board. And it is the primary reason I want to move on from #12. Paying him even the same we are paying him now won't get us any closer to a ring than the failed attempts we experienced in 2019, 2020 and 2021.
Great post. If anything, Raptor's obsession with lessoning Brady's accomplishments is actually blinding us to a decent point being made about QB's in general.
I'm not following. Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" moment for you? Nobody who knows anything at all about this sport will tell you that Super Bowl wins are all about the QB. If anything, your original comment seemed to be implying that they are.
Well, maybe I should have said, "He stepped into a team loaded with talent just like Brady did in Tampa".
Eh, yeah that doesn't provide me any clarity. Probably my fault- been inconsistent with this forum all season and am not completely familiar with the narratives of various posters. Anyway, as you were.
Raptor I think you are going extreme in your stance of making the effort in stating QB's don't matter. They absolutely matter. They are the most important position on the team.
But I do appreciate you trying to take away some importance and pedestal elevating from the QB position. It is the primary reason I want to move on. I want a better team and a less QB focused Packers. The Packers are obsessed with QBs. The organization has set QB as its culture and the fans have bought into it hard. I loved the model too....until it proved no more effective in championships than the Ravens strategy.
That being said, the QB position absolutely matters. They are the leader. Stafford and Kupp led his team. When the Rams needed points on their final drive, whether it be a FG or TD, Stafford and the Rams got it. And that is why they are SB champs. Yes their defense did well. But only well enough to put them in the position to win the game.
The Bengals did it for Burrow and he lost it.
The Chiefs did for Mahommes and he lost it.
The Packers did it for Rodgers and he lost it.
Josh Allen is truly the player this postseason who did everything he could and still came up short.
Never said the QB doesn't matter. But they don't matter as much as people think they do. So tell us, the final 2 plays of the Super Bowl, was it Stafford and Kupp sealing the deal?
And on another note, why did it take until the final drive for the Rams to take the lead again? What about the 3, 3 and outs before that drive? They don't count against the QB? Oh, wait that was the other team's defense. I always love it, people will talk about how great Brady is, but when another QB has a good defense and they win the Super Bowl, it's always a defensive win. Only certain QB's get to claim victory in the SB. Rodgers gets to, even though his defense was top of the line that year. Brady gets too. Stafford, now. But guys like Wilson and Flacco, nope they don't get to. Because it was their defense that won it for them.
I give credit to Brady because he has 7 freaking rings. More than any team in the NFL. Not player. Team.
At some point you win so many of these that you can't ignore that.
You can disect certain years, lucky breaks, "cheating" etc. for Brady like you can make excuses for each year of why Rodgers hasn't won since 2010, but the overarching data is Brady has won a sh*t ton when it mattered and Rodgers has lost a sh*t ton when it mattered. I can't reconcile that beyond just stating some guys are better leaders. Brady's success as a leader is unquestionable.
As far as the other stuff, I completely agree that the 2010 win was more about our defense than it was Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers played a legendary Divisional game and great SB, but the defense also created multiple turnovers in every playoff game and scored a defensive TD every game after the Wildcard win. The only game where the defense didn't have to bail out the Packers because the offense didn't seal it was the Divisional Round game. Otherwise every other game our offense had a chance to seal the win but failed to do so.
But I am in agreement with you. The league has turned QB obsessed and I think people on this board are starting to see a correlation of too much resource into the QB position is counterproductive in terms of winning a Title. We have talked about this a lot on this board. And it is the primary reason I want to move on from #12. Paying him even the same we are paying him now won't get us any closer to a ring than the failed attempts we experienced in 2019, 2020 and 2021.
Why can't I ignore it? You ignore the fact that Brady has never won a Super Bowl without a top 8 defense. So what you are saying is that Rodgers is a good QB, he just isn't able to elevate a team to the Super Bowl. But on the other hand, do you know how many seasons Brady has had a defense outside the top 10 in his career? 3. 3 years. But yeah, he's great. I wonder, how many Super Bowls Rodgers would have had if he had 13 seasons of top 10 defenses instead of 3.
Why can't I ignore it? You ignore the fact that Brady has never won a Super Bowl without a top 8 defense. So what you are saying is that Rodgers is a good QB, he just isn't able to elevate a team to the Super Bowl. But on the other hand, do you know how many seasons Brady has had a defense outside the top 10 in his career? 3. 3 years. But yeah, he's great. I wonder, how many Super Bowls Rodgers would have had if he had 13 seasons of top 10 defenses instead of 3.
everyone knows your right, most just wont admit it, Rodgers has carried this team, most wont admit that either.
through out the years we've had the bits and pieces to have a good defense, till this last season we've not had a defense ranked better then late teens or even bottom 1/3rd of the league, we brought in a middle linebacker and walla a top 13 defense, some claim it was better then that.
but according to some ILB ( Campbell) wasn't the reason for that improvement
everyone knows your right, most just wont admit it, Rodgers has carried this team, most wont admit that either.
Gameday chatter
Great Throw!
Woohoo! TD
Aaron looks on today
Sack ZaDarius!!!
OMG our special teams are awful
Why is no one getting open
Damn, Aaron missed that throw
FFS Special Team
Defense Playing Well
WTF Special Teams
Seriously ST
Unbelievable ST
ST are so bad
Alright, lets go win it
Come on Aaron, why force that to Davante, Lazard was open
ST, really?
ST so bad
Damn, we lost.
What yoop sees
Great Throw!
Woohoo! TD
Aaron looks on today
Sack ZaDarius!!!
OMG our special teams are awful
Why is no one getting open Damn, Aaron missed that throw FFS Special Team
Defense Playing Well
WTF Special Teams
Seriously ST
Unbelievable ST
ST are so bad
Alright, lets go win it Come on Aaron, why force that to Davante, Lazard was open ST, really?
ST so bad
Damn, we lost.
So fed up with everyone blaming Aaron, no one will admit that our special teams where bad.
through out the years we've had the bits and pieces to have a good defense, till this last season we've not had a defense ranked better then late teens or even bottom 1/3rd of the league, we brought in a middle linebacker and walla a top 13 defense, some claim it was better then that.
but according to some ILB ( Campbell) wasn't the reason for that improvement
Then also I know you really really want it to be true that good defenses have good ILB's.
But when you just make something up, blanket, 'all the best defenses had good ILB's this year', show nothing to back it and the evidence doesn't point for or against it really. Have a little humility, don't lie, then ignore data, then just double down with a back handed comment. You made a declarative assertion with no data, I provided data that shows maybe that isn't exactly the case. Man up and debate it if you feel strongly about it, don't ignore data, refute it if you think it is incomplete or inaccurate.
So many things changed this compared to last year including a new DC. We did get amazing ILB play, Rashan Gary became a top 10 defender in the league, Big Dean and Clark had their best years in a while. Did DeVondre add to that taking on additional responsibilities, doing his better? Or was he simply a benefactor? I don't really know. I want him back a lot and admit he was outstanding. But I like to keep an open mind and research things and understand them before I just shoot comments from the hip with no backing.
Simply just a little humility, research and an open mind goes a long way.
That is actually amazing that the Rams bucked the trend with that much cap on essentially one player (even though it was spread amongst two). But I don't really understand the correlation with $45 million on one position and then "it's a team game"
But that is the first time someone over 14% won the SB. Congrats Rams and Stafford. That's impressive.
That is actually amazing that the Rams bucked the trend with that much cap on essentially one player (even though it was spread amongst two). But I don't really understand the correlation with $45 million on one position and then "it's a team game"
But that is the first time someone over 14% won the SB. Congrats Rams and Stafford. That's impressive.
24% of the cap went to the starting QB position.
It's interesting that Goff had a higher cap hit on the Rams than Stafford did. Goff's dead cap on the Rams was $24.7 million, Staffords only $20 million.
You ignore the fact that Brady has never won a Super Bowl without a top 8 defense.
Who ignores this? We all get it. You have repeated this at least half a dozen times the last month.
It doesn't detract from the 7 Super Bowl rings Tom Brady wears.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
