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the packers may want to start targeting guys they think the chiefs would target, in terms of the WR position at least.
Why? The Cheifs' WR drafting has been "let's take the guy who no one else is touching with a 10-foot pole because he beat his pregnant girlfriend" and then a ton of misses. Mecole Hardman has been less productive as a 2nd round pick than MVS was as our 5th rounder.
There is no reason to envy the Chiefs' WR drafting, or position in general. We had Adams and some scheme fit mediocre guys. They had Hill and some scheme fit below average guys.
2021: 5th round, Cornell Powell
2020: none
2019: 2nd round, Mecole Hardman
2018: 6th round, Tremon Smith (converted to CB and kick returner and wound up on the Packers later)
2017: 4th round, Jehu Chesson
2016: 4th round, Demarcus Robinson; 5th round, Tyreek Hill
Let's check out their #2 WR over the years:
2021: Mecole Hardman, 693 yards
2020: Mecole Hardman, 560 yards
2019: Sammy Watkins, 673 yards
2018: Sammy Watkins, 519 yards
2017: Albert Wilson, 554 yards
2016: #1 rookie Tyreek Hill 593 yards; #2 Jeremy Maclin 536 yards
There's just absolutely no reason to look at the Chiefs and say "maybe we should draft/acquire WRs the way they do"
No it's because DrJ is on an obsession about some team jumping us for a WR. The Chiefs have draft capital as we do so he is afraid they will use the draft capital to draft a WR.
This draft is once again setting the stage of "Position X" or bust in Packer Fan Land.
the packers may want to start targeting guys they think the chiefs would target, in terms of the WR position at least.
Why? The Cheifs' WR drafting has been "let's take the guy who no one else is touching with a 10-foot pole because he beat his pregnant girlfriend" and then a ton of misses. Mecole Hardman has been less productive as a 2nd round pick than MVS was as our 5th rounder.
There is no reason to envy the Chiefs' WR drafting, or position in general. We had Adams and some scheme fit mediocre guys. They had Hill and some scheme fit below average guys.
2021: 5th round, Cornell Powell
2020: none
2019: 2nd round, Mecole Hardman
2018: 6th round, Tremon Smith (converted to CB and kick returner and wound up on the Packers later)
2017: 4th round, Jehu Chesson
2016: 4th round, Demarcus Robinson; 5th round, Tyreek Hill
Let's check out their #2 WR over the years:
2021: Mecole Hardman, 693 yards
2020: Mecole Hardman, 560 yards
2019: Sammy Watkins, 673 yards
2018: Sammy Watkins, 519 yards
2017: Albert Wilson, 554 yards
2016: #1 rookie Tyreek Hill 593 yards; #2 Jeremy Maclin 536 yards
There's just absolutely no reason to look at the Chiefs and say "maybe we should draft/acquire WRs the way they do"
This draft is once again setting the stage of "Position X" or bust in Packer Fan Land.
I mean to be fair if we leave the draft without drafting “Position X” (WR), I will see it as a major bust. I’m sure lafleur will too.
Why? The Cheifs' WR drafting has been "let's take the guy who no one else is touching with a 10-foot pole because he beat his pregnant girlfriend" and then a ton of misses. Mecole Hardman has been less productive as a 2nd round pick than MVS was as our 5th rounder.
There is no reason to envy the Chiefs' WR drafting, or position in general. We had Adams and some scheme fit mediocre guys. They had Hill and some scheme fit below average guys.
2021: 5th round, Cornell Powell
2020: none
2019: 2nd round, Mecole Hardman
2018: 6th round, Tremon Smith (converted to CB and kick returner and wound up on the Packers later)
2017: 4th round, Jehu Chesson
2016: 4th round, Demarcus Robinson; 5th round, Tyreek Hill
Let's check out their #2 WR over the years:
2021: Mecole Hardman, 693 yards
2020: Mecole Hardman, 560 yards
2019: Sammy Watkins, 673 yards
2018: Sammy Watkins, 519 yards
2017: Albert Wilson, 554 yards
2016: #1 rookie Tyreek Hill 593 yards; #2 Jeremy Maclin 536 yards
There's just absolutely no reason to look at the Chiefs and say "maybe we should draft/acquire WRs the way they do"
This draft is once again setting the stage of "Position X" or bust in Packer Fan Land.
I mean to be fair if we leave the draft without drafting “Position X” (WR), I will see it as a major bust. I’m sure lafleur will too.
so will Rodgers, and we didn't bring him back to let him throw to his RB the way he threw to Adams, or a constantly injured Cobb, and Amari or Lazard, I think Rodgers will have some input in our WR selection, as well he should have, I want to use the picks we got for Adams on a ready to play WR, not rebuild other position, before we get a 3rd edge rusher get a damn receiver.
Why? The Cheifs' WR drafting has been "let's take the guy who no one else is touching with a 10-foot pole because he beat his pregnant girlfriend" and then a ton of misses. Mecole Hardman has been less productive as a 2nd round pick than MVS was as our 5th rounder.
There is no reason to envy the Chiefs' WR drafting, or position in general. We had Adams and some scheme fit mediocre guys. They had Hill and some scheme fit below average guys.
2021: 5th round, Cornell Powell
2020: none
2019: 2nd round, Mecole Hardman
2018: 6th round, Tremon Smith (converted to CB and kick returner and wound up on the Packers later)
2017: 4th round, Jehu Chesson
2016: 4th round, Demarcus Robinson; 5th round, Tyreek Hill
Let's check out their #2 WR over the years:
2021: Mecole Hardman, 693 yards
2020: Mecole Hardman, 560 yards
2019: Sammy Watkins, 673 yards
2018: Sammy Watkins, 519 yards
2017: Albert Wilson, 554 yards
2016: #1 rookie Tyreek Hill 593 yards; #2 Jeremy Maclin 536 yards
There's just absolutely no reason to look at the Chiefs and say "maybe we should draft/acquire WRs the way they do"
This draft is once again setting the stage of "Position X" or bust in Packer Fan Land.
I mean to be fair if we leave the draft without drafting “Position X” (WR), I will see it as a major bust. I’m sure lafleur will too.
I assure we are drafting position X.
But the main point for Packers fans (I would put you in this group based on your recent posts), is that Position X must be filled on Thursday or it is a bust.
And I just don't think like that. Especially because this Packers team is lining up to be a defensive and running team anyways.
This draft is once again setting the stage of "Position X" or bust in Packer Fan Land.
I mean to be fair if we leave the draft without drafting “Position X” (WR), I will see it as a major bust. I’m sure lafleur will too.
I assure we are drafting position X.
But the main point for Packers fans (I would put you in this group based on your recent posts), is that Position X must be filled on Thursday or it is a bust.
And I just don't think like that. Especially because this Packers team is lining up to be a defensive and running team anyways.
still need to pass to win, last two SB's and lots of po games come down to the last play or series, and the pass wins them.
we need to take one of the top 4 or 5, mostly because those dudes are walk on ready to play, we don't have time to groom up rookies, just like Williams will lose at least a half a season, I'am not willing to chance that he even contributes this season, Gute and Rodgers need to target the receiver they like most ( with in reason) and do what they need to do and draft him.
as to our conversation about BPA, and needs drafting, as I said the top tier are often takent best player available, after that GM's lean more to positional drafting, they have to or they would never fill weak and needy positions, go look how mocksters build there drafts, they do so according to team needs, obviously GM's are a bit wiser, and do a much better job of balancing value.
seriously BPA is such a mis understood term imo , BTV best team value is far more accurate way to describe the draft process, and we certainly have a need for a receiver or two that can replace Tae's production.
This draft is once again setting the stage of "Position X" or bust in Packer Fan Land.
I mean to be fair if we leave the draft without drafting “Position X” (WR), I will see it as a major bust. I’m sure lafleur will too.
I assure we are drafting position X.
But the main point for Packers fans (I would put you in this group based on your recent posts), is that Position X must be filled on Thursday or it is a bust.
And I just don't think like that. Especially because this Packers team is lining up to be a defensive and running team anyways.
Haha ya screw these poor embasolic ninkempoops who feel a WR crew led by cobb and Lazard should be addressed in day one when we gained an extra opportunity to address the position by trading our best WR. Can’t believe those “Packer fan” smucks would think it’s of utmost importance to get a WR on day one.
Last time the silly fans demanded a WR we got Adams and the scrubs and Jordan Love who sat in the press box all year and no one open in the playoffs once Adams got all attention in the playoffs. We also got 2 off seasons of QB drama. Silly fans.
Last time the silly fans demanded a WR we got Adams and the scrubs and Jordan Love who sat in the press box all year and no one open in the playoffs once Adams got all attention in the playoffs. We also got 2 off seasons of QB drama. Silly fans.
No one open in the playoffs goes above and beyond our WR room. Wouldn't it be nice to have a TE to throw to every once in a while? Wouldn't it be nice to lean on a running game in the playoffs here and there? Everyone knows we need to get better at the WR position. Speaking of silly fans, wherever will you guys turn if we do trade up and grab a WR and he sucks? Personally, without ANY true fire talents in this Draft, I would prefer to continue to build the rest of the team and supplement WR with volume. Cast offs, trades, UDFA's, Rounds 2-7, post-Draft pick-ups, waiver wire, and yes, even in the 1st-Round if the value is there.
Honestly, if the Packers scouting staff likes 3 guys above the rest and ranks the rest as Round 2 guys, at best, do you really want them to go chasing WR's if those 3 go in the Top-10, as an example? It just makes no sense. Furthermore, you fans will be the exact same ones bitching in 3 years about how they reached for a no name WR when there was a Pro Bowl DT sitting there or an All-Pro OT. Everyone becomes a draft expert in hindsight.
I think that is where you are maybe missing what many of us are saying. I'm not saying don't pick a WR in the 1st-round. I'm saying don't go chasing WR's in the 1st-round that you aren't even particularly high on.
I mean look; we're going to draft some WRs over the first 5 picks.
The Chiefs are also definitely going to draft some WRs in their first 5 picks.
Both teams have gotten an extra 1 and 2 for their elite WR.
Neither team can replace an elite WR with a rookie or anyone available in free agency, because the guys they got rid of are literally two of the 5 best players at the position in the league.
Both teams are going to have to shift their strategy on offense to be less dependent on ONE WR this year than they have been previously.
The fact that everyone knows that both of us need to restock a specific position does, indeed, leave us vulnerable for being jumped.
The notion that we should seek the type of player they seek, though, falls short. The Chiefs are in this position because they have not prioritized the WR position over the past several years, and when they DID spend a high pick, it was a disappointment (Hardman). The Packers are in this position because they haven't prioritized the position and only used one pick that could be considered remotely high on it since 2014 and that was last year's 3rd rounder (who also appears to be a disappointment, but that's early).
The Chiefs just paid our best WR draft pick--5th rounder MVS--$10M/year to join their team, which places him ahead of their best WR draft pick (2nd rounder Hardman) on their depth chart. They have not done better or more at acquiring WRs. We should not be modeling the Chiefs at WR. It is, in fact, GOOD that they typically prefer a speed-first, size-later type of receiver and we typically prefer a sizable WR, because it means that while we are both competing for WR resources, we may be staking our boards so differently at the position that we actually can both get what we want.
But GoPackGo is right. If Thursday night ends and we haven't added a receiver, we can still draft 2 or 3 over the next two rounds, can still have one or two of those picks strike gold in the league, and can still sign 1-2 veterans sitting on the open market.
And like I started out with, we're going to have to shift our approach. We can't replace Adams' production and role with free agency or the draft in one player. We have to move to a game that looks more like what you've heard MLF talk about--a basketball team of receivers--different styles and body types and shiftiness and speeds that together can run this scheme and can explot weaknesses of the opponents by creating the right matchups with the right types of receivers against the right defenders.
We could have a team next year in which two WRs finish with 7-8hundred yards, another 2 finish with 4-5hundred yards, the TE has 650 yards and the RBs catch a combined 60 passes. And as long as the offense WORKS, that's fine.
Basically, for better or worse, this year might be the year we see in essence, three or four "#2" WRs instead of a 1 and a 2 and a slot and a deep threat, considering that any given defense can only cover 2 of those guys at a time, and the QB must find the exploited matchup. Achieving that doesn't mean we have an elite WR1 to replace Adams. We can HOPE an investment turns out that way, but odds are we are not getting a rookie sensation at receiver in the draft, so much as a solid contribution from a ready-to-play rookie. And the chances of getting that at 22 versus at 50 are not as different as many may think. And our track record as a team (albeit under now-deceased management, but with several familiar faces in the room) has shown that second round WRs regularly become all pros for us.
Last time the silly fans demanded a WR we got Adams and the scrubs and Jordan Love who sat in the press box all year and no one open in the playoffs once Adams got all attention in the playoffs. We also got 2 off seasons of QB drama. Silly fans.
I'm saying don't go chasing WR's in the 1st-round that you aren't even particularly high on.
And this may be where i am being misunderstood. I am not saying chase someone just to chase someone. I am saying if we do LOVE 3 guys and feel they are near locks to succeed, we have the assets to package to go get one of those guys. I think we are desperate enough in the WR room to warrant using the loot we have to go grab someone that we want.
But only if we really want them. Not just go chase anyone just to get someone.
Im not really even talking about jumping up into the top ten.
I think Jameson, Burks, and Olave may all be gone in the teens when a run on WR happens. Last time this happened we sat back, chose from the board that was given to us, and grabbed a QB because Love fell to us at decent value. Im just suggesting we be more aggressive, not accept the board as it is given (within reason), and we go get one of those three guys in the teens if we like them all.
I wouldnt watch them all go bye bye, grab other positions with appropriate value at pick 22 and 28, and then grab a WR at the end of rounds 2 or 3 because we find one in those spots that grades out about where they should according to pick value.
I think Jameson, Burks, and Olave may all be gone in the teens when a run on WR happens. Last time this happened we sat back, chose from the board that was given to us, and grabbed a QB because Love fell to us at decent value. Im just suggesting we be more aggressive, not accept the board as it is given (within reason), and we go get one of those three guys in the teens if we like them all.
I wouldnt watch them all go bye bye, grab other positions with appropriate value at pick 22 and 28, and then grab a WR at the end of rounds 2 or 3 because we find one in those spots that grades out about where they should according to pick value.
Im saying go get one of the guys we want.
Guys do I need to go watch Olave more from this year? I watched him a bunch last year before he decided to stay in school and the guy just doesn't look special. He looks like a complementary piece--a #2 WR type. Like at BEST Calvin Ridley. I mean, that was last year's tape. But I also struggle with the thought that Ohio State's third-best WR this season is going to be an elite #1 WR in the NFL. I know lots of teams put lots of talent at one position into the draft at once. But when I DID see Ohio State, Wilson and the hyphenated younger guy who isn't eligible until next year jumped off the page. Olave never did. Did he improve that much this year? Why is he being listed along with true potential alphas like Jameson and Traylon Burks?
I'm not convinced Rodgers will throw to a rookie much. Anyone we draft will have WR3 numbers. I'm not giving up on Amari either. I actually thought he looked much better in the playoff game. Like he was playing instead of thinking.
It sounds like MLF has big plans for Tonyan too. If he's healthy then our TE and RB catches will be much higher and I think that's a good thing. Just find the one guy that can stretch the field for 3-4 shots a game.
I'm not convinced Rodgers will throw to a rookie much. Anyone we draft will have WR3 numbers. I'm not giving up on Amari either. I actually thought he looked much better in the playoff game. Like he was playing instead of thinking.
It sounds like MLF has big plans for Tonyan too. If he's healthy then our TE and RB catches will be much higher and I think that's a good thing. Just find the one guy that can stretch the field for 3-4 shots a game.
Not how it works. If we draft a top wr and he is 1 on the depth chart he is likely to have majority of passing plays schemed for him.
I think Jameson, Burks, and Olave may all be gone in the teens when a run on WR happens. Last time this happened we sat back, chose from the board that was given to us, and grabbed a QB because Love fell to us at decent value. Im just suggesting we be more aggressive, not accept the board as it is given (within reason), and we go get one of those three guys in the teens if we like them all.
I wouldnt watch them all go bye bye, grab other positions with appropriate value at pick 22 and 28, and then grab a WR at the end of rounds 2 or 3 because we find one in those spots that grades out about where they should according to pick value.
Im saying go get one of the guys we want.
Guys do I need to go watch Olave more from this year? I watched him a bunch last year before he decided to stay in school and the guy just doesn't look special. He looks like a complementary piece--a #2 WR type. Like at BEST Calvin Ridley. I mean, that was last year's tape. But I also struggle with the thought that Ohio State's third-best WR this season is going to be an elite #1 WR in the NFL. I know lots of teams put lots of talent at one position into the draft at once. But when I DID see Ohio State, Wilson and the hyphenated younger guy who isn't eligible until next year jumped off the page. Olave never did. Did he improve that much this year? Why is he being listed along with true potential alphas like Jameson and Traylon Burks?
I like him - reminds me of desean jackson.
I think him and Burks would be a great combination.
Easy to say Rodgers never throws to rookies when those rookies were either playing behind Jordy, Cobb, Jennings, Driver, or James Jones on a depth chart
Or those rookies were 5th round picks or even un drafted JAGS.
If we get a WR in round one of the draft and that rookies competition for targets is broken bodied Cobb and former TE Allen Lazard...trust me..that rookie will see some balls come his way.
I think Jameson, Burks, and Olave may all be gone in the teens when a run on WR happens. Last time this happened we sat back, chose from the board that was given to us, and grabbed a QB because Love fell to us at decent value. Im just suggesting we be more aggressive, not accept the board as it is given (within reason), and we go get one of those three guys in the teens if we like them all.
I wouldnt watch them all go bye bye, grab other positions with appropriate value at pick 22 and 28, and then grab a WR at the end of rounds 2 or 3 because we find one in those spots that grades out about where they should according to pick value.
Im saying go get one of the guys we want.
Guys do I need to go watch Olave more from this year? I watched him a bunch last year before he decided to stay in school and the guy just doesn't look special. He looks like a complementary piece--a #2 WR type. Like at BEST Calvin Ridley. I mean, that was last year's tape. But I also struggle with the thought that Ohio State's third-best WR this season is going to be an elite #1 WR in the NFL. I know lots of teams put lots of talent at one position into the draft at once. But when I DID see Ohio State, Wilson and the hyphenated younger guy who isn't eligible until next year jumped off the page. Olave never did. Did he improve that much this year? Why is he being listed along with true potential alphas like Jameson and Traylon Burks?
Smith-Njigba you wont be calling this guy the hyphenated guy much longer
the 6 1000 yrd receiver for the Buckeyes, imo his ability shouldn't cast doubt on the ability of the other two, OS is the 3rd school all time to have 3 1000 yrd receivers in the same season, the other two where trick play gadget offenses, so Olave ranking third in that group is still special, and Olave did well both seasons at OS, he'll be at worst a 1A for whomever drafts him, smooth and fluid route runner who makes what he does look easy, are you sure your not down grading him some because of the ability of the other two, imo Wilson has a top 10 grade, so if Olave goes in the next 10 picks imo that seems about right.
Easy to say Rodgers never throws to rookies when those rookies were either playing behind Jordy, Cobb, Jennings, Driver, or James Jones on a depth chart
Or those rookies were 5th round picks or even un drafted JAGS.
If we get a WR in round one of the draft and that rookies competition for targets is broken bodied Cobb and former TE Allen Lazard...trust me..that rookie will see some balls come his way.
Been saying this awhile, Lafluer is not near as risk averse as Mike McCarthy was, if a rookie is ready he will play him, McCarthy should have used Cobb a lot more in year one then he did, same way Sherman used Jennings who started at least a doz games for us, McCarthy could be a frustrating coach concerning snubbing rookies, not sticking with the run more and his insanity with sticking to iso vert routes when we no longer had the receivers for that stuff to work.
Lafluer has been a lot different and it shows with our record, we are a short ball team much more now, but that doesn't mean we have to run on 3rd and short, so receivers that get open quick seem the order of the day to me.
I wouldn't bat a eye to move up and grab Wilson, same way I would have done it for Jefferson a few years back.
Easy to say Rodgers never throws to rookies when those rookies were either playing behind Jordy, Cobb, Jennings, Driver, or James Jones on a depth chart
Or those rookies were 5th round picks or even un drafted JAGS.
If we get a WR in round one of the draft and that rookies competition for targets is broken bodied Cobb and former TE Allen Lazard...trust me..that rookie will see some balls come his way.
Been saying this awhile, Lafluer is not near as risk averse as Mike McCarthy was, if a rookie is ready he will play him, McCarthy should have used Cobb a lot more in year one then he did, same way Sherman used Jennings who started at least a doz games for us, McCarthy could be a frustrating coach concerning snubbing rookies, not sticking with the run more and his insanity with sticking to iso vert routes when we no longer had the receivers for that stuff to work.
Lafluer has been a lot different and it shows with our record, we are a short ball team much more now, but that doesn't mean we have to run on 3rd and short, so receivers that get open quick seem the order of the day to me.
I wouldn't bat a eye to move up and grab Wilson, same way I would have done it for Jefferson a few years back.
This isn’t 2003 anymore. The “Packers fans” who expect a WR in round one do it because we have the worst WR room in league history at the moment and it needs to be addressed. The talent of someone in round one who plays WR will be ready to contribute on a team with no other options. If we wait till round 3 to grab someone I will think that person doesn’t get the ball because there was a reason he wasn’t drafted until round 3, many others will just continue the lazy narrative that he doesn’t get the ball because Rodgers hates rookies. I’m glad you understand this Yoop.
Easy to say Rodgers never throws to rookies when those rookies were either playing behind Jordy, Cobb, Jennings, Driver, or James Jones on a depth chart
Or those rookies were 5th round picks or even un drafted JAGS.
If we get a WR in round one of the draft and that rookies competition for targets is broken bodied Cobb and former TE Allen Lazard...trust me..that rookie will see some balls come his way.
Been saying this awhile, Lafluer is not near as risk averse as Mike McCarthy was, if a rookie is ready he will play him, McCarthy should have used Cobb a lot more in year one then he did, same way Sherman used Jennings who started at least a doz games for us, McCarthy could be a frustrating coach concerning snubbing rookies, not sticking with the run more and his insanity with sticking to iso vert routes when we no longer had the receivers for that stuff to work.
Lafluer has been a lot different and it shows with our record, we are a short ball team much more now, but that doesn't mean we have to run on 3rd and short, so receivers that get open quick seem the order of the day to me.
I wouldn't bat a eye to move up and grab Wilson, same way I would have done it for Jefferson a few years back.
I don’t think your point is lost, but Jennings was drafted in 2006, McCarthys first season as HC. Never played for Sherman.
