2022 Draft Discussion

[Yoop]

So when I say my love of Hill has nothing to do with Savage you retort by talking about Savage?

you dumped on Savage all last season, and never once took into consideration why he stayed deep more then other seasons, I simply pointed out that previously under Pettine he did basically everything you want to draft Hill for.

and if this has nothing to do with Savage why do you want to spend slot #22 on a player at a position where we already have two solid starters and 3 years ago moved up 8 or 9 slots to get Savage, no way Gute is spending slot #22 on Hill. BPA or not, BPA is so cliche, unless a GM fills needy positions pre draft with UFA then he can not entertain BPA drafting till later rounds.

1. You have me mistaken. I was a huge Savage fan pre-draft. I loved him when we drafted him. And I have been an ardent Savage supporter in his time in GB. However, I also didn't get too low on him his rookie season like many did, didn't get too high on him his sophomore year like many did, and again didn't get too low on him his 3rd year like many did. I was also one who said I would absolutely extend him the 5th year option when many others didn't.

2. If you aren't going to give me the respect by reading my posts, then why would I respond to your question about using slot #22 on Hill?

well It's more lack of remembrance then disrespecting you or not reading your posts, but if you want to feel insulted thats your privilege, I thought you where one of quite a few here that said he was a bust last year, and since you want to use slot 22 on another safety I took it for granted I was right.

Savage is not the player we saw last season, if ya can't be excited for a player that gets 10 PDs as fast as he did late 2020 season, then I doubt ya get excited for anyone, I can't relate to that.

[go pak go]

you dumped on Savage all last season, and never once took into consideration why he stayed deep more then other seasons, I simply pointed out that previously under Pettine he did basically everything you want to draft Hill for.

and if this has nothing to do with Savage why do you want to spend slot #22 on a player at a position where we already have two solid starters and 3 years ago moved up 8 or 9 slots to get Savage, no way Gute is spending slot #22 on Hill. BPA or not, BPA is so cliche, unless a GM fills needy positions pre draft with UFA then he can not entertain BPA drafting till later rounds.

1. You have me mistaken. I was a huge Savage fan pre-draft. I loved him when we drafted him. And I have been an ardent Savage supporter in his time in GB. However, I also didn't get too low on him his rookie season like many did, didn't get too high on him his sophomore year like many did, and again didn't get too low on him his 3rd year like many did. I was also one who said I would absolutely extend him the 5th year option when many others didn't.

2. If you aren't going to give me the respect by reading my posts, then why would I respond to your question about using slot #22 on Hill?

well It's more lack of remembrance then disrespecting you or not reading your posts, but if you want to feel insulted thats your privilege, I thought you where one of quite a few here that said he was a bust last year, and since you want to use slot 22 on another safety I took it for granted I was right.

Savage is not the player we saw last season, if ya can't be excited for a player that gets 10 PDs as fast as he did late 2020 season, then I doubt ya get excited for anyone, I can't relate to that.

My whole draft crush was around Daxton Hill. He has elite fluidity, great coverage skills, a willing tackler (though small), fantastic blitzer, and incredible speed. He can cover slots WRs, RBs and TEs, he can make tackles on the ball carrier enough, and he can blitz.

He can fill 1 to 3 spots on this defense because he is that versatile. I bet he could be a great gunner because he is that fast and fluid. He is the type of player I have dreamed about in GB for a long time (since Woodson left honestly). He can fulfill many duties and he is young enough (21 years old) where putting on another 10 to 15 pounds to be at that 205 to 210 range is not out of the question at all. I was hoping to talk about Daxton Hill and yet all that seems to be discussed is Darnell Savage.

Why are we still talking about Savage.

You not remembering what I said is not the disrespect. I didn't say anything about disrespect for not remembering what I said about Savage. I used the word disrespect when you came after me asking why I would use Slot #22 on a post you "replied to" that literally said why I would love to draft Daxton Hill. And there was nothing about Savage in that post.

It's apparent you approach the draft with position blinders completely on. But when a player is discussed that someone likes a lot at a position that actually would see significant playing time as a nickle CB/3rd safety....I don't understand the immediate dismissal because another player is on the team who already plays a different position.

[Yoop]

1. You have me mistaken. I was a huge Savage fan pre-draft. I loved him when we drafted him. And I have been an ardent Savage supporter in his time in GB. However, I also didn't get too low on him his rookie season like many did, didn't get too high on him his sophomore year like many did, and again didn't get too low on him his 3rd year like many did. I was also one who said I would absolutely extend him the 5th year option when many others didn't.

2. If you aren't going to give me the respect by reading my posts, then why would I respond to your question about using slot #22 on Hill?

well It's more lack of remembrance then disrespecting you or not reading your posts, but if you want to feel insulted thats your privilege, I thought you where one of quite a few here that said he was a bust last year, and since you want to use slot 22 on another safety I took it for granted I was right.

Savage is not the player we saw last season, if ya can't be excited for a player that gets 10 PDs as fast as he did late 2020 season, then I doubt ya get excited for anyone, I can't relate to that.

My whole draft crush was around Daxton Hill. He has elite fluidity, great coverage skills, a willing tackler (though small), fantastic blitzer, and incredible speed. He can cover slots WRs, RBs and TEs, he can make tackles on the ball carrier enough, and he can blitz.

He can fill 1 to 3 spots on this defense because he is that versatile. I bet he could be a great gunner because he is that fast and fluid. He is the type of player I have dreamed about in GB for a long time (since Woodson left honestly). He can fulfill many duties and he is young enough (21 years old) where putting on another 10 to 15 pounds to be at that 205 to 210 range is not out of the question at all. I was hoping to talk about Daxton Hill and yet all that seems to be discussed is Darnell Savage.

Why are we still talking about Savage.

You not remembering what I said is not the disrespect. I didn't say anything about disrespect for not remembering what I said about Savage. I used the word disrespect when you came after me asking why I would use Slot #22 on a post you "replied to" that literally said why I would love to draft Daxton Hill. And there was nothing about Savage in that post.

I think my anguish has to do with using the slot on anyone thats not a WR, I get the love for Hill, but there are WR's that would help our team MORE, my mention of Savage revolves around that.

I'am a NEEDS drafter, always have been, more so since UFA and the inability for teams to retain star players, and again imho BPA is more observed with top tier ( or about the top 10 or so players) and then again in later rounds, in between, GM's are filling there weaker positions, they have to or those positions will be become a huge liability.
so I will always use our top picks to fill needy positions, and obviously this year that is a WR, lis, I havn't really checked out Hill, and thats mostly because we have Amos, and Savage.

[BF004]

Any have a good source of pro day numbers?

[APB]

Any have a good source of pro day numbers?

Just stumbled upon this:

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft- ... ts-results

[BF004]

Any have a good source of pro day numbers?

Just stumbled upon this:

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft- ... ts-results

I did rediscover draftscout.com, wasn't showing up on google results very easily, but it works too.

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Any have a good source of pro day numbers?

Just stumbled upon this:

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft- ... ts-results

I did rediscover draftscout.com, wasn't showing up on google results very easily, but it works too.

How did you get it to show up on a search? I did a search yesterday and couldn't find it...

[YoHoChecko]

I did rediscover draftscout.com, wasn't showing up on google results very easily, but it works too.

How did you get it to show up on a search? I did a search yesterday and couldn't find it...

put "draftscout" as one word (and correct it when it auto-searches for "draft scout")and it usually is the 2nd or 3rd entry

[BF004]

Was just snooping around the Saints latest drafts and oh my gosh eww.

I get edge wasn't on my radar last year, but I don't even know who Payton Turner is. Like he is vaguely familiar after looking him up.

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I really believe you can only be as good as your players on rookie contracts, and future no pretty in New Orleans right now.

[BF004]

Also, see these names a lot around 22-28, Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson, who is your preference and why?

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image.png (135.93 KiB) Viewed 261 times

[YoHoChecko]

Zion Johnson is a much better player (right now) than Green. Green's big body has some thinking more "upside," but Johnson is so technically sound, plug-and-play, and almost a sure thing.

I think Johnson would be better in a zone running game, not that he's under-powered, while Green is more of a people-mover, not that he's unathletic (ok, he is a little unathletic).

Green's agility drill stuff is way below our norm--over 5 seconds in the shirt shuttle, over 5.20 in the 40--that's a deviation for us. But we have been targeting bigger bodies. I know the 40-time is really close between them, so it seems silly to mention it, but I recall 5.20 being a cutoff for us in the past. And the short shuttle is in different stratospheres. So is the vertical jump (Green below 27 is rough for our profile, Johnson at 32 is better than we need). The 20 bench reps from Green is troublingly low.

I would HATE an interior OL in the first round; just not a premium position. Both of these guys could be serviceable RTs but are better suited inside.

But if we take one, I'd much rather it be the superior player who is more athletic than the guy who is ten to twelve pounds heavier but gives up lateral movement and ready-to-play refinement.

Honestly looking at this more deeply, Green isn't on my board. Like it would have to be round 3 before I consider an OG with poor agility testing as a value.

[paco]

I think Green's issues can be worked out some more time. Zion is more polished because he's also nearly 2 years older. Green is barely 21. But he's also more versatile as a possible RT option than Zion. I also prefer the bit of extra size and power, potentially on Green. I'd prefer the Packers to start shifting to those bigger guys, not that Zion is small or weak. Not sure why Green didn't test a little better, but I'm not too concerned.

I think I give the edge slightly to Green, but they are close. Pair him with Dillon for a few years and Dillon can have a Henry type season.

[NCF]

Was just snooping around the Saints latest drafts and oh my gosh eww.

I edge wasn't on my radar last year, but I don't even know who Payton Turner is. Like he is vaguely familiar after looking him up.


image.png


I really believe you can only be as good as your players on rookie contracts, and future no pretty in New Orleans right now.

Looking not prettier.

[YoHoChecko]

It's been said here and there that the Packers are moving more toward bigger bodies on the OLine and I hate to interrupt a narrative with the truth, but not only are all of Gutey's draftees and high-level signees (extending Bakh, signing Billy Turner) all pretty much in the 305 to 315 weight range, but none are 6'6" and almost all of them (loking at you, Cole Madison) still sit firmly within a very narrow range of athletic testing one might say the Packers still prefer:

image.png (57.75 KiB) Viewed 238 times

Certainly if we get bigger bodies with the same athleticism, I bet Gutey would prefer it, as he has talked about getting bigger. But it seems pretty clear that they aren't making the exceptions to the athleticism we originally thought they were since the first couple years of his drafting brought in Hanson, Stepaniak, and Madison. No testing on Myers, so maybe he was another exception, as he's rather large for a center, but when testing is available, we're looking at 40's of 5.15 or lower, shuttles in the 4.8 or lower range (mostly 4.7s) 3-cones in the 7.9 or lower range (mostly 7.7s) vertical jump in the 28+ range, bench press has some low results but looks to target around 25+, 10-yard split in the 1.8 or below range.

I mean it's all pretty evident, still, that we look at these numbers when evaluating guys. They're too similar to be a coincidence. The one time we clearly and knowingly deviated with published workout numbers was Cole Madison, a bust for reasons aside from his play, but probably also for his play. So maybe let's stick to what's worked.

[BF004]

Was just snooping around the Saints latest drafts and oh my gosh eww.

I edge wasn't on my radar last year, but I don't even know who Payton Turner is. Like he is vaguely familiar after looking him up.


image.png


I really believe you can only be as good as your players on rookie contracts, and future no pretty in New Orleans right now.

Looking not prettier.

That is really dumb. Saints have a really good chance at having a top 10 pick next year and that 2024 2nd round could be top 40. They are a bad team getting worse. Lost a coach who was clinging to a few solid aging vets, no QB in sight, new coach, no young talent.

[YoHoChecko]

Looking not prettier.

That is really dumb. Saints have a really good chance at having a top 10 pick next year and that 2024 2nd round could be top 40. They are a bad team getting worse. Lost a coach who was clinging to a few solid aging vets, no QB in sight, new coach, no young talent.

Super weird trade.

So now the Saints pick at 16 and 19 instead of 18 in the first. The Eagles still have 15 and 18 and got a future first for their current first.

The Saints probably know they desperately need a QB and a WR, so they needed two firsts? But why not ride with Jamies this year and use next year's first for a QB in a much stronger class? I'm guessing they want to stay ahead of Pittsburgh for the QB?

Weird stuff, especially this early.

[NCF]

Weird stuff, especially this early.

I hate pick for pick trades blind. If you are going to do that, don't you want to see the board? I guess Philly wouldn't care with that haul, but shouldn't New Orleans want to hold off until Draft Day? Unless they are trying to package the picks to move up further.

[BF004]

I like this trade for us.

I feel like this ensures another QB gunna be going top 22, maybe even create a top 15 rush to get a few.

Like those odds of pushing some down, even if like a Travon Walker to 10 or a Garrett Wilson to 15 so we could trade up.



Trade makes so much sense for Philly too. They can't be sold on Hurtz yet and likely too early to give up, so getting a lot of future draft capital for next years draft if they feel the need for a QB then.

[BF004]

Weird stuff, especially this early.

I hate pick for pick trades blind. If you are going to do that, don't you want to see the board? I guess Philly wouldn't care with that haul, but shouldn't New Orleans want to hold off until Draft Day? Unless they are trying to package the picks to move up further.

I like it, I would offer our future first for Minnesota's every year. Little side bet on the season to see who does better.

[YoHoChecko]

Weird stuff, especially this early.

I hate pick for pick trades blind. If you are going to do that, don't you want to see the board? I guess Philly wouldn't care with that haul, but shouldn't New Orleans want to hold off until Draft Day? Unless they are trying to package the picks to move up further.

I actually don't love it because a) Philly is a team that needs defense and a WR; they could still take a receiver in their two picks, as they would in 3. And b) The Saints, though, likely were choosing between QB and WR and now they may take both.

In essence, from 15 to 19, when the Eagles had three picks and the Saints had 1 pick, I feel there is a better chance that only 1 WR goes in that span. Now, with the Eagles having 2 picks and the Saints having one, the odds are stronger that 2 WRs will go in that span. Not a lock, as Philly may just go defense-defense, but they are mocked big-bodied receivers like London and Burks on the regs.

Also, in the Saints' favor, giving up a future #1 and pick 101 isn't a bad deal for a current, mid-round pick. I know they also gave up a mid-round pick and a 2024 second-rounder, but I don't think they got fleeced on trade value. I just think wanting to push that value into the present at the expense of the future is a weird move for a team in the Saints' position.