2022 Draft Discussion

[Waldo]

I wonder where QB needy teams have Love on their boards; when is it time to reach out and touch Gutey. 2nd round? Late 1? 3?

[NCF]

I wonder where QB needy teams have Love on their boards; when is it time to reach out and touch Gutey. 2nd round? Late 1? 3?

Aaron's contract is fancy window dressing around the fact that he is still on a one year deal and then we'll see. No reason for the Packers to give up on Love, yet.

[YoHoChecko]

I wonder where QB needy teams have Love on their boards; when is it time to reach out and touch Gutey. 2nd round? Late 1? 3?

Aaron's contract is fancy window dressing around the fact that he is still on a one year deal and then we'll see. No reason for the Packers to give up on Love, yet.

Also moving Love now would literally be selling an asset at its lowest value. It makes no sense. Last year he was unknown and still had the draft eval as his primary value metric across the league. This year he's the guy who looked lost in limited action. Next year he's either the same as now or we had a chance to get some better tape out there.

[NCF]

What in the blue hell... when did this happen?

[Yoop]

That's honestly a very good answer. It just gets so muddied.

As an example, Nick Collins.

never said there are not exceptions, obviously there will be players that exceed all most all opinions held at draft day.

[Yoop]

I wonder where QB needy teams have Love on their boards; when is it time to reach out and touch Gutey. 2nd round? Late 1? 3?

where probably going to need Love, or did you forgot what happened the day before the draft last year? nothing concerning Rodgers is guaranteed

[Labrev]

What in the blue hell... when did this happen?

WOWWWWW!!! That's remarkably poor. I was quite intrigued by the guy as a prospect, got some real Finley vibes from his scouting report.

I wonder if maybe there was a data-entry error here. If not, those measurables are "Remove From Board"-caliber bad.

[Pckfn23]

Again, I am not talking any specific player... Are we able to determine if a player was snatched up too early on draft night? Who/What determines that? Who/what determines if a player has a first/second/third round grade?

Asking clarifying questions, nothing sinister here.

for you or me, it's mostly opinion, for people that actually make a living touring college games, they grade what they see, and those grades determine a players ranking, obviously those scouts opinion will vary some to, however there will be a general consensus, so when a GM takes a player much higher or lower then the consensus, the opinions will reflect that, and it will be proved with his play ability in the future.

Who makes the general consensus? Or how is a general consensus made? GMs certainly do not come together to do this.

[mention]Yoop[/mention] thoughts on this?

[Labrev]

Nope, no error, he really was that bad:

At the Texas A&M Pro Day, Wydermyer ran a 5.03 40-yard dash, had a 9-foot-1 broad jump, and a 25.5-inch vertical jump. All numbers were relatively underwhelming for tight ends.

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2021/11/25/ ... colts-fan/
"Underwhelming" hehe yeah that's one way to put it. Knock yourself out, Colts nation.

[Yoop]

for you or me, it's mostly opinion, for people that actually make a living touring college games, they grade what they see, and those grades determine a players ranking, obviously those scouts opinion will vary some to, however there will be a general consensus, so when a GM takes a player much higher or lower then the consensus, the opinions will reflect that, and it will be proved with his play ability in the future.

Who makes the general consensus? Or how is a general consensus made? GMs certainly do not come together to do this.

@Yoop thoughts on this?

I'd like to hear what you think forms the consensus, you don't get to come here grilling people, you got a opinion about this spit it out

you know that draft analyst have for many years commented on picks GM's have made, and there opinions often correlate with each other, I get the feeling you have little respect for the opinions of these draft analyst, even though at times there right and the GM did reach.

look at all the angst around here for Savage, did Gute over draft him, popular opinion here says yes, about the same as the opinion of many draft analyst the night he was taken.

stupid question, grilling me like I'am one of your grade school kids.

[Labrev]

Interesting stuff...

[BF004]

I wonder where QB needy teams have Love on their boards; when is it time to reach out and touch Gutey. 2nd round? Late 1? 3?

Got 3 more years of quite cheap control, would have no alternative as a backup or long term plan, and a QB who is year to year. He is still very young, younger than Kenny Pickett.

Given we have extra picks this year, I would be targeting a 2023 1st and then still try to finagle an additional 2023 pick at some point so we could be in a position to target a QB next draft.

Short of that, I just see no reason to trade him. Like a 0.1%-3% chance someone would offer that, so I’m like 97-99.9% want him back on roster this year.

[Pckfn23]

Who makes the general consensus? Or how is a general consensus made? GMs certainly do not come together to do this.

@Yoop thoughts on this?

I'd like to hear what you think forms the consensus, you don't get to come here grilling people, you got a opinion about this spit it out

you know that draft analyst have for many years commented on picks GM's have made, and there opinions often correlate with each other, I get the feeling you have little respect for the opinions of these draft analyst, even though at times there right and the GM did reach.

look at all the angst around here for Savage, did Gute over draft him, popular opinion here says yes, about the same as the opinion of many draft analyst the night he was taken.

stupid question, grilling me like I'am one of your grade school kids.

I am literally trying to understand what your thoughts are on the matter. There is zero need to get pissy about it. Why do you find questions offensive?

Through the draft process, how can we as fans trust that draftniks know more about the players than GMs do? Why would we trust the draftniks over the GMs?

Savage was not considered a reach by the media. https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pffs-top ... -nfl-draft You are misremembering what happened that night. Stokes was considered a reach by the draftniks. However, why should we care if the draftniks consider a prospect a reach or not? These are people with less knowledge of the prospects than the NFL teams doing the drafting. Like [mention]YoHoChecko[/mention]'s example, Nick Collins was considered a reach by draftniks, but in reality the NFL teams did not consider it so, even on draft night.

If we take Dotson at 22 is he a reach? Not 1 of the 10 respected media outlets I have on my consensus draft board has him higher than 24. Draft Countdown has him at 53 and NFL.com has him at 63.

Bottom line, considering a pick to be a reach because the media says it should be considered as such is ignorant of the situation. The media does not have all the information. Are they informed enough to give us a rough idea? Sure they are! Should we consider a top 2nd round prospect, according to the media, who is drafted in the 20s, a reach? No!

[YoHoChecko]

I just want to state up front that on draft night, if I call something a reach, I am referring to my own opinion of a player's worth and value. Is my opinion meaningful to the NFL? Nope. But it is why I post on a forum about football.

[Yoop]

Hell people in this forum thought Savage was a reach, when draftniks say a GM reached for a player, often they are right, sometimes they are wrong,( Collins), just like GM's often miss on picks, or find a gem in a player that dropped like Sam Shields

Most draftniks think Watson has a second round grade, so do I, if WAtson is taken in round 1, our opinion will be that he was over drafted, and it's up to Watson to prove us wrong, just like Collins had to do years ago.

It was a stupid childish question because YOU new who makes the consensus, you knew I knew who makes the consensus, so instead of insulting me with such a idiotic question, why not just say these draftniks don't know as much as the GM's know so there fore I don't trust there grades, which we could have discussed, because some of these draftniks have better track records when it comes to this stuff then some GM's in this league, so not only did you insult me, you insulted all of them

quit asking questions of people when you already know the answer to the question, if you don't think thats insulting, then you have a lot to learn about people

[Yoop]

I just want to state up front that on draft night, if I call something a reach, I am referring to my own opinion of a player's worth and value. Is my opinion meaningful to the NFL? Nope. But it is why I post on a forum about football.

Amen, this is all up to the eye of the beholder, people form opinions based on the knowledge of others or on what they witness, and we/ us don't get to witness near as much as people that make a living doing this stuff, to discount there incite and opinions doesn't even register with me, GM's reach for players all the time, and these draftniks have every right to call them out for it, the rare case when a GM gets it right like with Collins doesn't make over drafting a smart thing to do.

[go pak go]

I just want to state up front that on draft night, if I call something a reach, I am referring to my own opinion of a player's worth and value. Is my opinion meaningful to the NFL? Nope. But it is why I post on a forum about football.

Amen, this is all up to the eye of the beholder, people form opinions based on the knowledge of others or on what they witness, and we/ us don't get to witness near as much as people that make a living doing this stuff, to discount there incite and opinions doesn't even register with me, GM's reach for players all the time, and these draftniks have every right to call them out for it, the rare case when a GM gets it right like with Collins doesn't make over drafting a smart thing to do.

Just gonna say it yoop.

There is a looooooot of irony and contradiction in this post.

[Pckfn23]

Hell people in this forum thought Savage was a reach, when draftniks say a GM reached for a player, often they are right, sometimes they are wrong,( Collins), just like GM's often miss on picks, or find a gem in a player that dropped like Sam Shields

Most draftniks think Watson has a second round grade, so do I, if WAtson is taken in round 1, our opinion will be that he was over drafted, and it's up to Watson to prove us wrong, just like Collins had to do years ago.

Again, you are not remembering correctly on Savage. He was not considered a reach by the vast majority. You are confusing Savage with Stokes.

How do we know draftniks are often right when they say a GM reached for a player? The only way to know if a player is a reach or not is to look at all the teams' draft boards. There is just no feasible way to determine right or wrong in this situation. Have an opinion all you want, but don't be so arrogant to not realize your opinion might be different than what the NFL GMs thought. Was Jamarcus Russell a reach in the draft? Probably not. Had he not been taken #1, a team probably picks him at #2 or #3. Do we know for sure? No, but in a likelihood that would have happened, so not a reach even though he failed epically as a player. Would Tom Brady have been a reach in the first round? Almost certainly no NFL team had him on their board before round 6, so most likely yes. Reach is a draft day term, not a career determining one. Don't confuse it with bust. The problem in determining reach is that our draft boards come from draftniks and draftniks have inherently incomplete data. They get more access than we do, most definitely, but still not as much as NFL teams. Ultimately, to not like a pick based on our interpretation of a group of people that isn't in the inner circle and lacks the full data set is crazy. Have an opinion on the pick, hell, even say you think we could have gotten said player later on, but to denigrate the player or the drafter for it... have a tad bit of humility.

It was a stupid childish question because YOU new who makes the consensus, you knew I knew who makes the consensus, so instead of insulting me with such a idiotic question, why not just say these draftniks don't know as much as the GM's know so there fore I don't trust there grades, which we could have discussed, because some of these draftniks have better track records when it comes to this stuff then some GM's in this league, so not only did you insult me, you insulted all of them

quit asking questions of people when you already know the answer to the question, if you don't think thats insulting, then you have a lot to learn about people

This was literally my statement at the start:

Asking clarifying questions, nothing sinister here.

I didn't know if you knew anything or what your opinion was on the matter. That's why I asked... I wanted to avoid the constant yoop refrain of, "that's not what I meant." Instead when I ask questions to clarify, you feel weirdly insulted. I have my opinion on the matter, in the last few posts you have made your opinions known on the matter, albeit throwing a tantrum while doing so... If I ask a question, I want to know the answer because I do not know the answer people will give. I don't play that game.

Not only am I insulting you, I am insulting all draftniks?? Ok... You must get insulted a lot.

[Pckfn23]

I just want to state up front that on draft night, if I call something a reach, I am referring to my own opinion of a player's worth and value. Is my opinion meaningful to the NFL? Nope. But it is why I post on a forum about football.

Amen, this is all up to the eye of the beholder, people form opinions based on the knowledge of others or on what they witness, and we/ us don't get to witness near as much as people that make a living doing this stuff, to discount there incite and opinions doesn't even register with me, GM's reach for players all the time, and these draftniks have every right to call them out for it, the rare case when a GM gets it right like with Collins doesn't make over drafting a smart thing to do.

Just gonna say it yoop.

There is a looooooot of irony and contradiction in this post.

[Yoop]

I just want to state up front that on draft night, if I call something a reach, I am referring to my own opinion of a player's worth and value. Is my opinion meaningful to the NFL? Nope. But it is why I post on a forum about football.

Amen, this is all up to the eye of the beholder, people form opinions based on the knowledge of others or on what they witness, and we/ us don't get to witness near as much as people that make a living doing this stuff, to discount there incite and opinions doesn't even register with me, GM's reach for players all the time, and these draftniks have every right to call them out for it, the rare case when a GM gets it right like with Collins doesn't make over drafting a smart thing to do.

Just gonna say it yoop.

There is a looooooot of irony and contradiction in this post.

well that doesn't say much, who here at times doesn't disagree with GM's, draftniks, or others opinions here in this forum?

who here has not liked Watkins, Pickens, Pierce, or some of these other receivers with 2nd round grades, I think we've all considered taking one of em with our late first round pick, who of us wouldn't consider that at least a mild reach pick? I know I would since all are considered mid second round value or later.

I'll defend the consensus opinions of the draftniks, imho they are right just as often as most GM's