The Athletic does the same thing with their staff beat writers, which is fun to read, but they don't do it live or anything.BF004 wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 13:44Locked On Draft is doing their mock draft tonight, live on their YouTube channel.
This was really cool last year, I just listened to the results via podcasts. But the local host or some beat writer makes each pick, they’ll do trades and what not. Live reactions, can get more informed insights for each time than their locked on host.
But I’ll planning on trying to tune in tonight. Think it starts at 6 cst, bukowski is hosting, so I’m not sure who is making the packers picks.
2022 Draft Discussion
Moderators: NCF, salmar80, BF004, APB, Packfntk
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YoHoChecko
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Pckfn23
- Huddle Heavy Hitter
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Speaking of The Athletic, them and Draft Network have really become king of in-depth draft coverage. NFL.com has good stuff too. ESPN really fell apart on that front years ago and just recently CBSSports has as well. Their coverage of the actual players has turned into &%$@.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 15:09The Athletic does the same thing with their staff beat writers, which is fun to read, but they don't do it live or anything.BF004 wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 13:44Locked On Draft is doing their mock draft tonight, live on their YouTube channel.
This was really cool last year, I just listened to the results via podcasts. But the local host or some beat writer makes each pick, they’ll do trades and what not. Live reactions, can get more informed insights for each time than their locked on host.
But I’ll planning on trying to tune in tonight. Think it starts at 6 cst, bukowski is hosting, so I’m not sure who is making the packers picks.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
isn't that do to a change in draft scouting people, for instance Rang was with CBS and prior with Draft Scout, now I'am not sure where he is, same with Brugler, both I believe at one time where with Draft scout if memory serves, so those changes may be why certain sites quality has changed.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 15:11Speaking of The Athletic, them and Draft Network have really become king of in-depth draft coverage. NFL.com has good stuff too. ESPN really fell apart on that front years ago and just recently CBSSports has as well. Their coverage of the actual players has turned into &%$@.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 15:09The Athletic does the same thing with their staff beat writers, which is fun to read, but they don't do it live or anything.BF004 wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 13:44Locked On Draft is doing their mock draft tonight, live on their YouTube channel.
This was really cool last year, I just listened to the results via podcasts. But the local host or some beat writer makes each pick, they’ll do trades and what not. Live reactions, can get more informed insights for each time than their locked on host.
But I’ll planning on trying to tune in tonight. Think it starts at 6 cst, bukowski is hosting, so I’m not sure who is making the packers picks.
That must be the HaHa Draft. Had the fold-up table out in the living in Manty.
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My 2 cents on the draft term discussion:
It's rare to know where teams actually have players slotted. The only time we get any real info is via trades. When a team trades up for a player, they wouldn't do that unless they had the prospect valued there. When they trade down, they wouldn't do that if they had anyone graded to be worthy of the pick. Since teams' draft boards can be very different, that still doesn't tell all about a "GM consensus board" - where teams have player X slotted. Unless someone spills the beans, we'll never know if an apparent "reach" wasn't actually valued right where they were picked by other teams.
Draftniks do a great fan service, and a consensus kinda boards will give some idea, and above all are fun, but draftniks simply do not have the resources GMs have. I do value guys who spend time watching film and gathering RAS scores etc., but teams have a bevy of actual trained full-time scouts who can focus and do way deeper dives into prospects than draftniks, access to all video, and very importantly access to the medicals and character background info. I would LOVE to see a GM compare his full eval and thinking of a prospect with a high-profile draftnik. I have a feeling the draftnik would get blown outta the water... But since it's trade secrets, little chance of that.
Yes, GMs still miss - these are young men they're picking, it's impossible to 100% know how they react to the pro environment and money, and even a prospect with perfect medical can be ruined by injuries. But draftniks usually turn a blind eye to where their boards or consensus boards failed and tend to over-remember the times they hit the bullseye.
REACH - There are two different definitions that aren't even mutually exclusive:
- "Reach" is when a player is picked above where the consensus board, "a draftnik you trust's" board, or your own board have them slotted. You can then give a knee-jerk draft grade based on that. I personally think this should be only done for fun. Whether someone is a "reach" in this sense or not tells absolutely nothing about the guy's NFL future.
- "Reach" is also when a team chooses a lower-graded prospect over higher-graded one(s) due to positional need. Also known as "needs picking". It's a thing internal to the teams, and has nothing to do with draftnik boards. It's when a GM says FU to his own draft board. No team will ever admit to doing that, but bad teams sure do. Since trade secrets, it's real hard to tell unless it's silly teams doing ticket-selling sexy skill position or QB picks instead of unsexy way more talented linemen. "Value picking" is the opposite, higher-valued prospect over lower-graded positional needs.
STEAL:
- When a prospect is picked below where they are slotted on draftnik boards. Used to make fans feel good.
- Thing internal to teams, when a player rated higher on their actual board falls to them. For example, if you've tried to trade up for someone but have failed, and they still remain on the board at your next pick. Publicly, of course, every pick is a steal.
BUST and STEAL2:
- Draft pick have a value - they can be used to trade for vets, up or down or into the future in the draft.
- Bust is player that failed to deliver at or above the investment put into acquiring him. Steal is someone who produced above expectations.
- Funnily "steal" has a different meaning here than on draft day: Had Brady failed and been outta the league in 2 years, no one would've called a failed 6th round QB a bust. But he sure was a draft steal.
It's rare to know where teams actually have players slotted. The only time we get any real info is via trades. When a team trades up for a player, they wouldn't do that unless they had the prospect valued there. When they trade down, they wouldn't do that if they had anyone graded to be worthy of the pick. Since teams' draft boards can be very different, that still doesn't tell all about a "GM consensus board" - where teams have player X slotted. Unless someone spills the beans, we'll never know if an apparent "reach" wasn't actually valued right where they were picked by other teams.
Draftniks do a great fan service, and a consensus kinda boards will give some idea, and above all are fun, but draftniks simply do not have the resources GMs have. I do value guys who spend time watching film and gathering RAS scores etc., but teams have a bevy of actual trained full-time scouts who can focus and do way deeper dives into prospects than draftniks, access to all video, and very importantly access to the medicals and character background info. I would LOVE to see a GM compare his full eval and thinking of a prospect with a high-profile draftnik. I have a feeling the draftnik would get blown outta the water... But since it's trade secrets, little chance of that.
Yes, GMs still miss - these are young men they're picking, it's impossible to 100% know how they react to the pro environment and money, and even a prospect with perfect medical can be ruined by injuries. But draftniks usually turn a blind eye to where their boards or consensus boards failed and tend to over-remember the times they hit the bullseye.
REACH - There are two different definitions that aren't even mutually exclusive:
- "Reach" is when a player is picked above where the consensus board, "a draftnik you trust's" board, or your own board have them slotted. You can then give a knee-jerk draft grade based on that. I personally think this should be only done for fun. Whether someone is a "reach" in this sense or not tells absolutely nothing about the guy's NFL future.
- "Reach" is also when a team chooses a lower-graded prospect over higher-graded one(s) due to positional need. Also known as "needs picking". It's a thing internal to the teams, and has nothing to do with draftnik boards. It's when a GM says FU to his own draft board. No team will ever admit to doing that, but bad teams sure do. Since trade secrets, it's real hard to tell unless it's silly teams doing ticket-selling sexy skill position or QB picks instead of unsexy way more talented linemen. "Value picking" is the opposite, higher-valued prospect over lower-graded positional needs.
STEAL:
- When a prospect is picked below where they are slotted on draftnik boards. Used to make fans feel good.
- Thing internal to teams, when a player rated higher on their actual board falls to them. For example, if you've tried to trade up for someone but have failed, and they still remain on the board at your next pick. Publicly, of course, every pick is a steal.
BUST and STEAL2:
- Draft pick have a value - they can be used to trade for vets, up or down or into the future in the draft.
- Bust is player that failed to deliver at or above the investment put into acquiring him. Steal is someone who produced above expectations.
- Funnily "steal" has a different meaning here than on draft day: Had Brady failed and been outta the league in 2 years, no one would've called a failed 6th round QB a bust. But he sure was a draft steal.
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YoHoChecko
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I sort of miss hating on HaHa. It really became a favorite past time of mine.
Hopefully we don't draft someone I don't think can cut it this year, so I don't have to berate people with his failures for the next 4 years.
Not sure who would fit that bill, but I have been pretty rough on Olave. I do think he'll be an above-average #2 in the league, though, which is nothing to "HaHa" at
Hopefully we don't draft someone I don't think can cut it this year, so I don't have to berate people with his failures for the next 4 years.
Not sure who would fit that bill, but I have been pretty rough on Olave. I do think he'll be an above-average #2 in the league, though, which is nothing to "HaHa" at
Salmar, I beg to differ a little here, Blesto and other scout services been around a long time, they do the pre scouting grades for most pro teams scout groups, prior to them even checking into college players each season, they don't just watch video, those grades are formulated based on what they saw at games the season prior, and the good ones make more molla then actual team scoutssalmar80 wrote: ↑14 Apr 2022 15:29Draftniks do a great fan service, and a consensus kinda boards will give some idea, and above all are fun, but draftniks simply do not have the resources GMs have. I do value guys who spend time watching film and gathering RAS scores etc., but teams have a bevy of actual trained full-time scouts who can focus and do way deeper dives into prospects than draftniks, access to all video, and very importantly access to the medicals and character background info. I would LOVE to see a GM compare his full eval and thinking of a prospect with a high-profile draftnik. I have a feeling the draftnik would get blown outta the water... But since it's trade secrets, little chance of that.
Scouting System
The scouting systems an NFL club uses will differ from team to team, but they are all looking for the same thing—proper and useful information.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/195 ... ng-process
as this article says, there are just to many prospects to look at and to few scouts per team to get a proper eval for all the players, teams rely on scouting services to weed out the best prospects.
heres Dan Jeremiah, who works 12 months a year, 20 hrs a day at times, was a past team scout, you should read about this guy, thing is there are a bunch just like him and they do this stuff basically full time..
But when I asked NFL draft expert and football analyst Daniel “DJ” Jeremiah his best call in a recent draft, he answered, “I’ll tell you my biggest mistake: Russell Wilson.”
https://news.microsoft.com/stories/peop ... emiah.html
I had not seen this. Packers brought him in for a visit, very possibly for this reason. Curious if he's on the board or not.
RIP JustJeff
I Do Not Hate Matt Lafleur
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YoHoChecko
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Wow, fascinating news (rumors) and developments this morning! Also didn’t know about Wyatt. Williams rumors are interesting.
Anyone able to find anything on London’s workout? Want that supposed to happen yesterday?
Anyone able to find anything on London’s workout? Want that supposed to happen yesterday?
It's today.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑15 Apr 2022 07:00Wow, fascinating news (rumors) and developments this morning! Also didn’t know about Wyatt. Williams rumors are interesting.
Anyone able to find anything on London’s workout? Want that supposed to happen yesterday?
RIP JustJeff
The only thing on record was his arrest for misdemeanor charges resulting from the already known 2020 argument he had with his then girlfriend. Reporting from that incident doesn't reveal anything too terrible:
Aren't these type negative character reports typical for this time of year? Lots of unnamed sources and "concerns" being voiced but no real sourcing or police records of note. Sounds like a concerted smear attempt to get him to drop.The incident took place last Friday when, according to the UGA Police Department, officers responded to a 911 call to McWhorter Hall where a male and female were fighting. Officers identified Wyatt as one of the parties involved in what was deemed a verbal altercation. However, the report states that Wyatt allegedly kicked the female's door "multiple times from the hallway, damaging the door and forcing it open." Wyatt and the female reportedly had an on-again, off-again relationship. The report also stated that "neither party indicated they were in fear for their safety."
When i said earlier the need at WR was so that the Pack should identify their guy, and do what it takes to go get him....well...getting into the top 10 would be nuts.
But maybe Jameson is “that guy” for the Packers.
But maybe Jameson is “that guy” for the Packers.
I Do Not Hate Matt Lafleur
In February of 2020, Wyatt was arrested for a "family violence" incident. Team sources say that their private investigators found out about three additional domestic violence incidents. With that in his background, sources from multiple teams say Wyatt is off their draft board.
3 incidents in 2020, now another verbal altercation last week, who wouldn't want to investigate this player more before spending a first round pick on him, Glad Gute brought him in for a sit down.
3 incidents in 2020, now another verbal altercation last week, who wouldn't want to investigate this player more before spending a first round pick on him, Glad Gute brought him in for a sit down.
He’s not. I don’t think a fully healthy Jameson Williams is “that guy”.
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it's the insane lead up to the draft, all kinds of rumors get spread, mock drafts are beyond idiotic, players that have no way of being taken in certain slots get mocked there, any past legal issues, fights, or problems are brought up to devalue prospects, next week at this time things will be back to normal, happens every year.