Round 2 - Pick #53, Christian Watson, WR, North Dakota State

From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.

Moderators: NCF, salmar80, BF004, APB, Packfntk

User avatar
salmar80
Reactions:
Posts: 4929
Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:07

Post by salmar80 »

bud fox wrote:
30 Apr 2022 03:25
I thought he was more jeff janis then top prospect in the process.

Looking forward to him proving me wrong.
Naah, Watson did more in college. He can threaten deep and stop for a curl on a dime, which is a safe throw AR loves. Has to develop the intermediate outs and ins and backshoulders to become a true favorite. His college QB was immensely late on many throws, he was often wiiiide open. He was also good with sweeps, of which we do a bunch. If the CB gives too much space, he can do the quick outside WR screen, another staple of ours. Being a willing blocker is a plus.

MVS and Janis were all deep routes early on, and only MVS developed some versatility with time. I think Watson can do more even as a rookie.

I actually feel they used him on TOO many ways in his last year in college (he lined up as RB sometimes) to really learn the nuances of outside WR. But that gives some varied basic knowledge to build on with our pretty fine coaching staff.
Image

User avatar
Pugger
Reactions:
Posts: 4776
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 18:34
Location: Punta Gorda, FL

Post by Pugger »

Foosball wrote:
29 Apr 2022 19:44
LaFleur got his speed guy. Too bad he he has a hard time catching the ball. Pickens should have been the guy. But hey, maybe in a couple years Watson will “catch” on and become a decent receiver.

Career drop rates
George Pickens: 2.1%
Skyy Moore: 3.3%
Chris Olave: 4.7%
Jahan Dotson: 5.1%
Drake London: 5.7
Alec Pierce: 6.4%
Garrett Wilson: 6.8%
Justyn Ross: 7.1%
Treylon Burks: 7.4%
Jameson Williams: 7.7%
Jalen Tolbert: 8.4%
Christian Watson: 12.7%
His drops were one of the reasons he was considered a risk by some of the "experts" compiling their mock drafts. The other was because of his competition in college.

Ghost_Lombardi
Reactions:
Posts: 1265
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 18:57

Post by Ghost_Lombardi »

Watson had two drops his senior year.

As a senior Watson led his team with 43 receptions for 801 yards and seven touchdowns. His QB rating when targeted was 142.9.

NDSU is a run first program, hence the low number of receptions.

User avatar
paco
Reactions:
Posts: 6718
Joined: 18 Mar 2020 15:29
Location: Janesville, WI

Post by paco »

I'm just not that concerned with Watson's drops. Bad QB's, and offense that didn't pass a lot (means not as much chance to work out the bugs - only 120 catchable targets in his career). He's got the 2nd biggest hands in this class. I don't doubt he'll have some early issues. So did Adams and James Jones. But I think those will get worked out because he has the measurables and skillset to overcome it.
Image
RIP JustJeff

User avatar
paco
Reactions:
Posts: 6718
Joined: 18 Mar 2020 15:29
Location: Janesville, WI

Post by paco »

Matt Waldman said that peak Watson could be Javon Walker. So I did a RAS comparison. Watson has the height, Walker a bit shiftier. But that's a pretty decent comparison.
image.png
image.png (103.95 KiB) Viewed 772 times
Image
RIP JustJeff

User avatar
paco
Reactions:
Posts: 6718
Joined: 18 Mar 2020 15:29
Location: Janesville, WI

Post by paco »

Image
RIP JustJeff

User avatar
salmar80
Reactions:
Posts: 4929
Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:07

Post by salmar80 »

Could see AR going: "Learning this offence?"

Image
Image

Willink
Reactions:
Posts: 392
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 19:12
Location: Ithaca

Post by Willink »


User avatar
BF004
Huddle Heavy Hitter
Reactions:
Posts: 13862
Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:05
Location: Suamico
Contact:

Post by BF004 »

APB wrote:
30 Apr 2022 07:36
Side note: I look forward to the coming season of inevitable @Yoop posts confusing/misspelling Watkins for Watson and vice versa. :mrgreen:
I was looking forward to hearing anything from [mention]Yoop[/mention], no comment yet on the big aggressive trade up for a WR.
Image

Image

User avatar
BF004
Huddle Heavy Hitter
Reactions:
Posts: 13862
Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:05
Location: Suamico
Contact:

Post by BF004 »

paco wrote:
29 Apr 2022 18:50
wallyuwl wrote:
29 Apr 2022 18:45
I am out. What was the trade?
53 and 59 for 34.
Yah have to wonder how many teams we offered that too.

Perhaps they just decided Friday, but guessing they were offering both picks on Thursday night at the end.


At the very least I imagine they offered the same picks to Tampa Bay at 33 and they said no. Wouldn’t make sense to not offer that a pick earlier.
Image

Image

User avatar
Waldo
Reactions:
Posts: 980
Joined: 19 Mar 2020 10:33

Post by Waldo »

TheSkeptic wrote:
30 Apr 2022 03:41
bud fox wrote:
30 Apr 2022 03:25
I thought he was more jeff janis then top prospect in the process.

Looking forward to him proving me wrong.
Jeff's only problem was the Wonderlic. He could not unlearn bad habits such as body catching. This kid has no such problems but he will need a good coach. He will prove you wrong unless injuries derail him which is a risk for everyone.

So far the Packers have 2 that can be major contributors on ST. No more starting in the 18 yard line while the opponents start on the 35.
His problem wasn't the wonderlic, it was the fact that he was genuinely dumb as a box of rocks. The NFL isn't known for being a bunch of brainiacs, but there is at least a minimum intelligence threshold; schemes are complex. He just didn't meet that threshold.

Ghost_Lombardi
Reactions:
Posts: 1265
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 18:57

Post by Ghost_Lombardi »

Janis was an elite athlete we tried to turn into a WR.

Watson is a WR who is also an elite athlete.

And Waldo is right - Janis must have been dumb AF.

User avatar
go pak go
Huddle Heavy Hitter
Reactions:
Posts: 13518
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 21:30

Post by go pak go »

BF004 wrote:
30 Apr 2022 10:01
APB wrote:
30 Apr 2022 07:36
Side note: I look forward to the coming season of inevitable @Yoop posts confusing/misspelling Watkins for Watson and vice versa. :mrgreen:
I was looking forward to hearing anything from @Yoop, no comment yet on the big aggressive trade up for a WR.
The Packers literally spent what yoop has been asking for years and not a word.

ILB, DT, and WR
Yoop wrote:
26 May 2021 11:22
could we get some moderation in here to get rid of conspiracy theory's, some in here are trying to have a adult conversation.
Image

User avatar
salmar80
Reactions:
Posts: 4929
Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:07

Post by salmar80 »

go pak go wrote:
30 Apr 2022 12:16
BF004 wrote:
30 Apr 2022 10:01
APB wrote:
30 Apr 2022 07:36
Side note: I look forward to the coming season of inevitable @Yoop posts confusing/misspelling Watkins for Watson and vice versa. :mrgreen:
I was looking forward to hearing anything from @Yoop, no comment yet on the big aggressive trade up for a WR.
The Packers literally spent what yoop has been asking for years and not a word.

ILB, DT, and WR
[mention]Yoop[/mention] Give us a sign. I know it wasn't the 1st round of your dreams, but Gutey's trying his best to appease you!
Image

User avatar
Labrev
Reactions:
Posts: 6635
Joined: 25 Mar 2020 00:01

Post by Labrev »

APB wrote:
30 Apr 2022 07:36
Side note: I look forward to the coming season of inevitable @Yoop posts confusing/misspelling Watkins for Watson and vice versa. :mrgreen:
Embarrassingly, I have been confusing the names and called this kid "Watkins" a few times, with yoop once correcting me on it. :oops:
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”
—Magneto

User avatar
Pckfn23
Huddle Heavy Hitter
Reactions:
Posts: 14477
Joined: 22 Mar 2020 22:13
Location: Western Wisconsin

Post by Pckfn23 »

Pckfn23 wrote:
13 Apr 2022 10:15
CHRISTIAN WATSON | North Dakota State 6041 | 208 lbs. | rSR. Tampa, Fla. (Plant) 5/12/1999 (age 22.96)
TheAthletic wrote:BACKGROUND: Christian Watson, who has four siblings, grew up in Tampa, Fla., and started playing football at age 3. He attended H.B. Plant High, where he played with several future FBS recruits like Whop Philyor, Thomas Allen and Micah McFadden (all three committed to Indiana). A late bloomer physically, he earned a spot on varsity as a junior wide receiver and safety and hit a four-inch growth spurt after the season. As a senior, Watson helped lead Plant to a 13-1 record, losing the 2016 Class 7A state title game to St. Thomas Aquinas. He finished his senior year with 23 catches for 393 yards (17.1 average) and eight touchdowns while also returning kicks. Watson also lettered in track and set personal bests in the 200 meters (23.66) and long jump (18’3). A two-star recruit out of high school, Watson was the No. 501 wide receiver in the 2017 recruiting class and the No. 536 recruit in the state of Florida. With very little production and film his first three years of high school, he wasn’t being recruited to play college football. But Watson was a late developer, and North Dakota State stumbled upon him in the spring of 2016 as he was physically maturing into a high-level receiver. The FCS powerhouse offered him in the summer, and Watson committed weeks later before the start of his senior year. FBS programs started to show interest, but Watson shut down his recruitment after committing to North Dakota State. His father (Tazim Wajed, formerly known as Tim Watson) played defensive back at Howard and was a sixth-round pick in the 1993 NFL Draft by the Green Bay Packers, spending five years in the NFL (1993-97). His older brother (Tre) played linebacker at Illinois (2014-17) and Maryland (2018) and for the Montreal Alouettes in the CFL. His uncle (Cedric) played defensive end at Marshall in the mid-’90s. His cousin (Jordin Sparks) is a Grammy Award winning singer. Watson graduated with his degree in university studies (December 2021). He accepted his invitation to the 2022 Senior Bowl.

STRENGTHS: Long, athletic frame ... accelerates with gliding strides to eat up grass and pick up speed as he goes ... uses subtle pacing to stack and separate vertically from corners ... tracks well on deep post patterns, gearing up/down to settle underneath the football ... averaged at least 18.3 yards per catch each of his four seasons at NDSU ... climbs the ladder to pull down throws ... displays the upper-body flexibility to adjust and stab throws away from his body with his large hands ... won’t slow at the catch point, and looks to finish with toughness as a ball carrier ... active weapon on jet sweeps and end-arounds, and started one game at RB as a senior (49/403/2) ... competitive as a blocker ... has kick-return experience, averaging 26.4 yards per return with two touchdowns (26/686/2) ... eighth player in school history to reach 2,000 receiving yards.
WEAKNESSES: Slender muscle tone, and needs to keep adding bulk ... mediocre play strength will be more pronounced vs. NFL corners ... allows throws to get on top of him, and must improve pass catching focus ... unusually high number of drops (12) in final two seasons ... control and balance as a route runner break down quickly vs. physical corners ... press technique lacks maturation ... has return experience, but didn’t play on coverages ... medicals will be important after multiple surgeries to repair torn cartilage in his knee (2019 offseason); missed three games as a senior because of a hamstring injury ... all 52 career games came vs. FCS competition.
SUMMARY: A three-year starter at North Dakota State, Watson was an outside receiver in offensive coordinator Tyler Roehl’s run-heavy scheme. A late bloomer who fell through the recruiting cracks, he developed into one of the best deep threats in the FCS (20.4 yards per reception during his career) with four touchdowns of at least 65 yards in 2021. With his smooth acceleration, Watson displays vertical tempo as a route runner and is quarterback-friendly with the way he works back to the ball and expands his catch radius. He never faced an FBS opponent while at NDSU and will see a sizable jump in speed and physicality when facing NFL competition. Overall, Watson is unpolished as a route runner and must improve his consistency at the catch point, but he is an intriguing size/speed athlete with the explosiveness to win vertically. He projects as a WR4 as a rookie with WR2 upside and offers kick-return experience.
GRADE: 2nd-3rd Round (No. 61 overall)
image.png
CBS wrote:Draft Scouting Report:

Rating: 85.27 (Long-term starter)

Pro Comparison: Michael Pittman

Strengths:

Elite combination of size and speed. Tested off the charts in speed and explosiveness at combine. Great body control and ability to track the football downfield. Will be trouble for defenders in space. Strong hands. Good range to make plays outside of his frame.

Weaknesses:

Needs to be more physical through his routes and play defense when his quarterback puts him in a position to do so. Just 88 receptions over four seasons as part of a run-heavy offense. Needs work on his breaks. Not the most natural pass catcher.

Accolades:

2021: FCS All-America second team
2020: FCS All-America first team as all-purpose player
NFL wrote:Watson has been one of the most explosive receivers at the FCS level since getting on the field at NDSU out of Plant High School in Tampa. As a redshirt freshman, he helped the Bison win yet another national title by contributing in 14 games (9-165-18.3 receiving; two starts). Watson was a second-team All-Missouri Valley Football Conference selection in 2019, leading the eventual national champs with 34 receptions for 732 yards (ranking fourth in the FCS with 21.5 yards per reception) while scoring six times in 16 games (11 starts; also 13-162-12.5, one TD rushing; 4-70-17.5 kick returns). He was a first-team All-MVFC selection at receiver (19-442-23.3, one TD receiving: 21-116-5.5 rushing) and a second-team return specialist (10-338-33.8, two TD kick returns) in 2020, playing in 10 games with eight starts between the team's lone game in the fall and its 2021 spring schedule. Watson garnered second-team Associated Press FCS All-American accolades (43-801-18.6, seven TDs receiving; 15-114-7.6, one TD rushing; 10-227-22.7 kick returns in 12 games, 10 starts) in 2021, as well as a first-team all-conference nod. He missed the team's first three playoff games before starting in the national title game victory over Montana State. Christian's father, Tazim Wajid Wajed (formerly Tim Watson), was a defensive back at Howard and had a five-year NFL career (1993-97). His brother, Tre, played linebacker at two Big Ten Schools (Illinois, Maryland) and in the XFL, and his uncle, Cedric, played football at Marshall. -- by Chad Reuter

Analysis
By Lance Zierlein
NFL Analyst
NFL Comparison
Dontrelle Inman
Overview
A receiver prospect with intriguing measurables and a strong belief in the team aspect of the game, Watson possesses an alluring combination of size and speed. He showed off improved route running and catch strength in 2021. He is much more gifted than his opposition was at NDSU and needs to prove he can elevate his game against bigger, faster players at the next level. He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.
Strengths
Father played safety in the NFL.
Very good blend of size, speed and length.
Touchdown production through air, ground and return game.
Plays fast from snap to whistle.
Displays foot quickness for take-off versus press.
Added some route polish in 2021.
Leverages defender's hips before cutting the opposite way.
Maintains acceleration through route stem.
Effective separation talent in linear route tree.
Improved hand strength on contested catches in 2021.
Weaknesses
Mirror-and-match corners can trace short to intermediate routes.
Lacks deep bend for sudden sink and stop.
Needs excess steps into the top of the break point.
Occasionally mistimes leaps to the throw.
Catch focus is below average.
Needs to impose his size on coverage when the ball goes up.
Sources Tell Us

"I love the kid. ... He's going to be great in the locker room and work his tail off every day." -- Scout for AFC team
Draft Network wrote:Christian Watson is a very good athlete with good speed, agility, and excellent body control. For a taller receiver, he is surprisingly dynamic and displays the ability to consistently win against man coverage. In the passing game, he is extremely tough to cover. He can defeat press with foot quickness and has surprisingly good vertical speed. His home-run speed threatens a defender's cushion quickly. He does a good job of dropping his weight while displaying the separation quickness at the top of the route. He has a very good catch radius and is a matchup problem in contested-catch situations. He can contort his body to make tough catches and is dynamic with the football in his hands. In the NFL he is an outside receiver who projects with very good ability in the kicking game both as a returner and a core special teamer.

Ideal Role: Outside WR

Scheme Fit: Any offense

FILM EVALUATION

Written by Drae Harris

Games watched: UNI, SDSU, MSU (2021)

Best Game Studied: UNI

Worst Game Studied: MSU

Route Running: He uses some creativity and nuance when running routes. While he won’t have elite separation quickness at the top of the route because he is a high-cut player, he is creative enough to get separation on intermediate routes. He also uses his body to out-physical smaller defenders and create separation.

Hands: He has strong hands to secure the football in contested-catch situations. He does an excellent job contorting his body to catch off-target throws. He also displays a good ability to track the deep ball and secure the catch.

Separation: On the surface, you may not think he is a good separator due to his big frame. However, bigger receivers should be judged on a different platform than smaller ones. He can separate at the top of the route and has good speed to win vertically as well.

Release: He has improved his release in 2021. He has shown the ability to beat press with upper-body strength. He also has the foot quickness to get vertical and stack a defender.

Run After Catch: He is surprisingly good running after the catch. For a bigger receiver, he is elusive and can get positive yardage. Because he’s also a bigger-bodied guy, he is difficult for smaller defenders to tackle.

Ball Skills: He has outstanding ball skills. He has an uncanny ability to track the deep ball. He also has an outstanding catch radius and jumping ability, so he can clean up off-target throws and make the QB look good.

Football IQ: His football IQ is good. He knows how to adjust his route to get to the sticks in situational football. When he is underneath, he is cognizant of coverage and knows how to “sit his route down.”

Versatility: He brings some versatility to the position. He has aligned both outside and in the slot. While he has improved his releases off the line in 2021, his skill set also suggests that he would work well off the ball.

Competitive Toughness: He plays with competitive toughness. He catches 6 routes when contact is imminent. He will run block and is tough to get down when he has the ball in his hands.

Big Play Ability: He is a big-play threat whenever his number is called. He has the speed to beat you vertically and he will likely win the contested catch. He’s a surprisingly dangerous runner with the ball in his hands, as well.

Prospect Comparison: Simi Fehoko (2021 NFL Draft, Dallas Cowboys)

SCOUT GRADES

TDN Consensus: 80.50/100 (Second Round Value)

Crabbs Grade: 80.50/100

Marino Grade: 81.50/100

Harris Grade: 81.00/100

Sanchez Grade: 81.00/100

Weissman Grade: 78.50/100
Image
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."

User avatar
Yoop
Huddle Heavy Hitter
Reactions:
Posts: 12354
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 09:23

Post by Yoop »

Ghost_Lombardi wrote:
30 Apr 2022 08:49
Watson had two drops his senior year.

As a senior Watson led his team with 43 receptions for 801 yards and seven touchdowns. His QB rating when targeted was 142.9.

NDSU is a run first program, hence the low number of receptions.
I read that, sorta changed my opinion of Watson, to move up this far Watson had to be the target once the top 4 or 5 where gone, possibly even a Rodgers guy all along, and since AR called to congrat him I feel Rodgers will give him special attention, WAtson could do very well as a rookie

most of us loved his athletic ability since the combine, the only draw back was small school and 12% drop rate, now it seems that was prior to last year when caught everything thrown his way

User avatar
Yoop
Huddle Heavy Hitter
Reactions:
Posts: 12354
Joined: 24 Mar 2020 09:23

Post by Yoop »

Labrev wrote:
30 Apr 2022 13:21
APB wrote:
30 Apr 2022 07:36
Side note: I look forward to the coming season of inevitable @Yoop posts confusing/misspelling Watkins for Watson and vice versa. :mrgreen:
Embarrassingly, I have been confusing the names and called this kid "Watkins" a few times, with yoop once correcting me on it. :oops:
haha

I've decided to label these to Wat guys

Watkins is W1
Watson W2

:lol:

User avatar
NCF
Reactions:
Posts: 8300
Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:04
Location: Hastings, MN

Post by NCF »

Image

Read More. Post Less.

User avatar
Scott4Pack
Reactions:
Posts: 2934
Joined: 26 Mar 2020 03:41
Location: New Mexico

Post by Scott4Pack »

paco wrote:
30 Apr 2022 08:53
I'm just not that concerned with Watson's drops. Bad QB's, and offense that didn't pass a lot (means not as much chance to work out the bugs - only 120 catchable targets in his career). He's got the 2nd biggest hands in this class. I don't doubt he'll have some early issues. So did Adams and James Jones. But I think those will get worked out because he has the measurables and skillset to overcome it.
Yeah, I was thinking of JJ too. (Glad that you mentioned Adams' early issues.) Remember when we used to joke about Jones and whether the thumbs were in or out making the difference whether he caught the ball or not? We joked about it, but it was real.

Anyhow, "bad hands" is something that is coachable. And Watson, by all accounts, is coachable.

I'm thinking he has a very high ceiling. And maybe he's one of those rookies who catches 40-50 balls. I think the trick will be whether he can produce early in the Red Zone. He has the height, wing span, and hands to do that.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!

Post Reply