Rank the Roster 2020: #28

[Waldo]

Rank The Roster: 2020 Edition

1. Aaron Rodgers (48%)[--]
2. Za'Darius Smith (70%)[+5]
3. Aaron Jones (43%)[+3]
4. Davante Adams (45%)[--]
5. David Bakhtiari (59%)[-3]
6. Kenny Clark (100%)[-3]
7. Jaire Alexander (74%)[-2]
8. Preston Smith (58%)[+5]
9. Elgton Jenkins (75%)[+15]
10. Kevin King (47%)[+4]
11. Adrian Amos (78%)[-1]
12. Corey Linsley (63%)[-1]
13. Christian Kirksey (56%)[FA]
14. Darnell Savage (81%)[+2]
15. Rick Wagner (38%)[FA]
16. Jace Sternberger (44%)[+16]
17. Rashan Gary (47%)[+3]
18. Alan Lazard (54%)[+27]
19. Dean Lowry (31%)[+3]
20. Chandon Sullivan (50%)[+25]
21. AJ Dillon (35%)[R]
22. Devin Funchess (44%)[FA]
23. Billy Turner (68%)[-5]
24. Jamaal Williams (40%)[-1]
25. Equanimeous St. Brown (27%)[-6]
26. Mason Crosby (50%)[+9]
27. Raven Greene (40%)[+6]
28. Current

Percent of vote the winner got will be in parenthesis, position change vs. 2019 will be in brackets.

Here's how this works:

Each day there is a new thread/poll, starting at #1, on down to whereever we get. The whole point of this exercise is to have something to talk about in the lean news months to carry us to camp. Each poll will be open for voting for 24 hours. New threads will only be created on weekdays. Ties will cause a runoff poll.

Simply voting is not enough!

Post why you voted for who you did and provide a player to add to the next poll (every poll will be a list of 10 guys, a new player is added to the list each day).

Here's the thing. There is no criteria. This is an exercise to foster discussion therefore there are no clear criteria for ranking. Who is better right now? Who will have the best season? Who was better last year? Sort of a combo of them all? Do you take positional value into account? It really doesn't matter.

Previous Years:
Rank the Roster: 2014-2019

[Packfntk]

With Lazard going way earlier, and EQ and Funchess already selected, does this mean people do not see MVS getting a lot of playing time? I don't get it I guess.

[Waldo]

Back up to 20 with the rest of the draft class and Begelton

Players that are still missing (in alphabetical order):
Montravious Adams, Tim Boyle, Treyvon Hester, Josh Jackson, Jake Kumerow, James Looney, Cole Madison, Will Redmond, Greg Roberts, Darrius Shepherd, Ty Summers, Dexter WIlliams, Tim Williams

[Waldo]

With Greene going, the consensus pick for ILB2 or S3 is in, I was the only one for Martin.

Going to move on with my pick, next up, Josiah Deguara. MLF loves him, we don't have anyone really in that role right now, and the snaps are there. Plus I expect him to be an ST force.

Tyler Ervin, our return man and potential offensive x factor weapon, is in consideration as well.

[NCF]

Still going MVS, then I will move on to Burks, Keke, and probably Lane Taylor.

[NCF]

Going to move on with my pick, next up, Josiah Deguara. MLF loves him, we don't have anyone really in that role right now, and the snaps are there. Plus I expect him to be an ST force.

Yeah, I can get on board with him coming up pretty soon, too.

Guys I would vote for but others won't... Oren Burks & Josh Jackson. Just think there is still time for these two to hit despite VERY disappointing sophomore seasons.

[NCF]

When do we start considering Jordan Love? First round pick generally appears around pick 20 in this over the years while back-up QB is typically around 35. Obviously, this is the most talented back-up QB we have had in forever, but we generally have given preference to proven back-ups in this exercise. Still, I think about 5-6 more guys go before this conversation should be happening.

[Packfntk]

When do we start considering Jordan Love? First round pick generally appears around pick 20 in this over the years while back-up QB is typically around 35. Obviously, this is the most talented back-up QB we have had in forever, but we generally have given preference to proven back-ups in this exercise. Still, I think about 5-6 more guys go before this conversation should be happening.

He is in my next 4.

[YoHoChecko]

Going to move on with my pick, next up, Josiah Deguara. MLF loves him, we don't have anyone really in that role right now, and the snaps are there. Plus I expect him to be an ST force.

It's interesting how much I feel like I love our draft picks more than most people this year (and many years), but I also vote for our rookies later in rank the roster than most people.

Though I guess we are getting to a "defined role for 200-300 scrimmage snaps and probable core STer" range of voting, so maybe not too far off.

[BF004]

[TheSkeptic]

Really? MVS? The 5th WR after Adams and Lazard and ESB and somebody from the group?

It is possible of course that he has had his eyes medically repaired and now he can see the ball when it leaves the QB's hands. I don't think there is any other possible excuse and I don't think he makes the 53 if he has not had his eyes fixed. But probably he hasn't because probably his problem is not medically fixable.

Tyler Lancaster is the only starter on this list from the end of last season. He got my vote.

[Pugger]

I went with M. Lewis. He isn't a starter but he is a good vet who is known for his blocking.

[Labrev]

Really? MVS? The 5th WR after Adams and Lazard and ESB and somebody from the group?

It is possible of course that he has had his eyes medically repaired and now he can see the ball when it leaves the QB's hands. I don't think there is any other possible excuse and I don't think he makes the 53 if he has not had his eyes fixed. But probably he hasn't because probably his problem is not medically fixable.

Tyler Lancaster is the only starter on this list from the end of last season. He got my vote.

I don't think it was realistic for people to believe that St. Brown would just pick up off of the nice flash plays he was making two seasons ago. MVS has done a lot more to date than St. Brown, so if we are gonna rank Q where we did, we may as well put MVS close behind.

[YoHoChecko]

Really? MVS? The 5th WR after Adams and Lazard and ESB and somebody from the group?

I don't think it was realistic for people to believe that St. Brown would just pick up off of the nice flash plays he was making two seasons ago. MVS has done a lot more to date than St. Brown, so if we are gonna rank Q where we did, we may as well put MVS close behind.

I disagree about what is/isn't "realistic," but I agree that the MVS votes are more people who think that he'll play a bigger role than WR5 and that the board has incorrectly ranked the WRs than people saying the WR5 spot is more valuable than the DL3 spot.

In other news, I've spent the morning/early afternoon reading all the fetures on our late rounders and undrafted players on the packers website today and I'm (as usual) stoked about our list of longshot prospects and their ability to develop into ST players early and solid NFL players later. Especially in the defensive secondary, I think we might have some genuine, badass, cheap depth coming up. Love Vernon Scott, intrigued by the Canadian dude, genuinely optimistic about Sanford Samuels--not to mention having Jerry Gray come in to teach them all. And of course still high on 2nd-year guys like Ento and Hollman. Just some good dudes with great athletic ability battling it out back there.

Really like the UCLA LB, Krys Barnes, too. Our PS is gonna be lit this year.

[YoHoChecko]

Commenting on what to expect out of WRs, let's take a walk down memory lane.

Here are the first 6 years of Donald Driver's career:

image.png (15.92 KiB) Viewed 406 times

There's nothing until a massive jump in year 4, and then another jump in year 6 where he maintained that level of play for some time.

Next, let's look at Greg Jennings:

image.png (15.61 KiB) Viewed 406 times

Jennings is a steady progression; very good rookie year, slightly better 2nd year, arrived in year 3 and maintained that high level of play.

Next up: Jordy Nelson

image.png (15.66 KiB) Viewed 406 times

Minimal impact in years 1 and 2, small jump in year 3 (especially when you consider his postseason), big jump in year 4.

Moving onto Davante Adams:

image.png (16.17 KiB) Viewed 406 times

Again, middling first 2 years, big jump in year 3 and another big jump in year 5.

Only ONE player in this group of Packers #1 WRs over the years took a traditional rookie impact, steady progression improvement to the #1 slot. The rest all had 2-3 years of little to middling success followed by large steps forward. That doesn't mean MVS and EQSB WILL jump, but it means either of them easily could, and deciding what is or isn't realistic to occur with our WRs this year should be viewed in light of our history, not simply of the individual's track record in the first 2 years.

[TheGreenMan]

Interesting information, however I'd be curious to see what the level of progression looks from a much bigger pool of WR's that have come here (and have stayed for a few years). That's obviously not possible, unless someone is awfully bored.

It was mentioned those were #1 guys, but does anyone here think MVS or ESQB can be #1 guys? Or are we hoping they at least turn out to be #2/#3 guys that we can at least count on making a consistent impact on this team? At this point I'm not really sure what I think, at least when talking about MVS. I haven't seen enough of ESQB yet.

[YoHoChecko]

Only ONE player in this group of Packers #1 WRs over the years took a traditional rookie impact, steady progression improvement to the #1 slot. The rest all had 2-3 years of little to middling success followed by large steps forward. That doesn't mean MVS and EQSB WILL jump, but it means either of them easily could, and deciding what is or isn't realistic to occur with our WRs this year should be viewed in light of our history, not simply of the individual's track record in the first 2 years.

Interesting information, however I'd be curious to see what the level of progression looks from a much bigger pool of WR's that have come here (and have stayed for a few years). That's obviously not possible, unless someone is awfully bored.

It was mentioned those were #1 guys, but does anyone here think MVS or ESQB can be #1 guys? Or are we hoping they at least turn out to be #2/#3 guys that we can at least count on making a consistent impact on this team? At this point I'm not really sure what I think, at least when talking about MVS. I haven't seen enough of ESQB yet.

I guess all I meant with showing our former #1s here is not to say that this is the normal progression for elite WRs, but just that you can have a mediocre start to a career and anything is still possible. The response was in light of someone saying it's "unrealistic" that EQSB would put the flashes together and beat out MVS. I just think our own history indicates that we should not try to predict if/when our WRs will pop.

James Jones actually had slightly more yards (676) as a rookie than Jennings, for our best rookie WR season in the past 20 years. Yet he didn't hit/top 700 yards in a single season until year 6, and never topped 825. He was who he was; he started dropping the ball less and Rodgers trusted him more, but he never materially advanced in his role and yard/catch production.

[Labrev]

Only ONE player in this group of Packers #1 WRs over the years took a traditional rookie impact, steady progression improvement to the #1 slot. The rest all had 2-3 years of little to middling success followed by large steps forward. That doesn't mean MVS and EQSB WILL jump, but it means either of them easily could, and deciding what is or isn't realistic to occur with our WRs this year should be viewed in light of our history, not simply of the individual's track record in the first 2 years.

Interesting information, however I'd be curious to see what the level of progression looks from a much bigger pool of WR's that have come here (and have stayed for a few years). That's obviously not possible, unless someone is awfully bored.

It was mentioned those were #1 guys, but does anyone here think MVS or ESQB can be #1 guys? Or are we hoping they at least turn out to be #2/#3 guys that we can at least count on making a consistent impact on this team? At this point I'm not really sure what I think, at least when talking about MVS. I haven't seen enough of ESQB yet.

I guess all I meant with showing our former #1s here is not to say that this is the normal progression for elite WRs, but just that you can have a mediocre start to a career and anything is still possible. The response was in light of someone saying it's "unrealistic" that EQSB would put the flashes together and beat out MVS. I just think our own history indicates that we should not try to predict if/when our WRs will pop.

James Jones actually had slightly more yards (676) as a rookie than Jennings, for our best rookie WR season in the past 20 years. Yet he didn't hit/top 700 yards in a single season until year 6, and never topped 825. He was who he was; he started dropping the ball less and Rodgers trusted him more, but he never materially advanced in his role and yard/catch production.

To clarify, I don't think that it's unrealistic to think that St. Brown will make the jump due to a lack of talent, or that the flashes were some mirage and not a sign of what's to come.

It's more because he's essentially entering his second year, because his real second year was lost to injury, and that there will likely be some rust to shake off. Yes, he was looking good last we saw him, but that was two years ago.

On that note, the other examples you have listed did not have any major 'breaks' in their development like Q did getting sent to IR. They were all regularly practicing and working at their craft. You don't get to do that on IR, as I understand it, only workout (and Q was not lacking for physical traits to begin with).

Also, the path to seeing the field is going to be difficult, especially given that the team seems to be transitioning to an offense where receivers do not get as many touches, especially receivers behind WR2. He will likely start the year behind Lazard, Funchess, and MVS, and so will have to overtake those three to have the impact, whereas Donald Driver going into the year he broke out was one of the only receivers who had even caught a pass in a game with Favre when the season began and pretty much began as WR2.

Again, not doubting the ability, or that he could theoretically make a big jump one year, I would just bet against this being the year: his path to the field is not favorable, coupled with a pretty substantial interruption in his development.

[TheSkeptic]

I don't know whether MVS will be the #3 or #4 or #5 WR or get cut. But he is NOT going to be #1 or #2, those positions are going to be Adams and Lazard, baring injuries or a massive jump but ESB.

The stats quoted do not take into account the fact that Adams had a pretty significant injury his second year. They don't take into account that Jordy had to compete with Jennings, Jones and Driver for targets.

What people are missing is that there will be very little room on the starting O for WR#3 and no room at all for #4. The Packers O is going to be substantially different and all we need is to look at the draft to know this.

The starting O could have 2 RB's, Jones and Dillon. Or it could have Jones/Deguara or Dillon/Deguara. It could even have Williams and Dillon
The stating O could have 1 RB and 2 TE's. Sternberger and Tonyan probably.
The starting O will NOT have 3 WR's on the field except in unusual circumstances, 3rd and long. And in a run heavy O, we will not see many 3rd and long's.

So how many targets is WR#3 going to get a game? Maybe 5? How many will WR#4 get - zero usually. Maybe 1 if he is lucky - and if WR#4 is MVS he had damn well better not drop it or misjudge it. So why do people think that WR#4 is more valuable than a D Lineman who gets 1/2 of the snaps?

[Pckfn23]

FYI, MVS was injured most of last year as well.