Rank the Roster 2022: #13

[Waldo]

Rank The Roster: 2022 Edition

1. Aaron Rodgers (62%)[--]
2. Kenny Clark (43%)[+3]
3. Jaire Alexander (44%)[--]
4. David Bakhtiari (40%)[--]
5. Elgton Jenkins (29%)[+3]
6. Rashan Gary (51%)[+4]
7. DeVondre Campbell (51%)[+26]
8. Aaron Jones (53%)[-1]
9. Adrian Amos (40%)[--]
10. Eric Stokes (41%)[+10]
11. AJ Dillon (42%)[+5]
12. Preston Smith (52%)[+2]
13. Current (xx%)[--]

Percent of vote the winner got will be in parenthesis, position change vs. 2019 will be in brackets.

Here's how this works:

Each day there is a new thread/poll, starting at #1, on down to whereever we get. The whole point of this exercise is to have something to talk about in the lean news months to carry us to camp. Each poll will be open for voting for 24 hours. New threads will only be created on weekdays. Ties will cause a runoff poll. You may vote up to TWO players (a change that was made mid-poll last year, seemed to work well).

Simply voting is not enough!

Post why you voted for who you did and provide a player to add to the next poll (every poll will be a list of 15-20 guys, new players added in bunches every few days).

Here's the thing. There is no criteria. This is an exercise to foster discussion therefore there are no clear criteria for ranking. Who is better right now? Who will have the best season? Who was better last year? Sort of a combo of them all? Do you take positional value into account? It really doesn't matter.

Previous Years:
Rank the Roster: 2021
Rank the Roster: 2020
Rank the Roster: 2014-2019

[Waldo]

This is probably a new tier line. I think Rasul goes here. After that its time for Savage, Myers, and Lazard.

What do y'all make of Tyler Davis vs Tonyan? MLF seems super high on Davis.

It seems like we're setting up the late teens/early 20's to be the big pass catching mob of receivers and TE's.

[TheSkeptic]

This is probably a new tier line. I think Rasul goes here. After that its time for Savage, Myers, and Lazard.

What do y'all make of Tyler Davis vs Tonyan? MLF seems super high on Davis.

It seems like we're setting up the late teens/early 20's to be the big pass catching mob of receivers and TE's.

I went with Myers and Watson again. Even though Watson is the third of the 3 top picks (and the Packers did pay a 1st round price for him) I think he has the highest ceiling of the 3. Plus with Sammy being an idiot and not being there for the OTA's it is highly likely that Watson starts at WR#1 on day 1.

I think that if Tonyan is 100% he starts and has a big year. And unless the Oline has a raft of injuries he will be asked to catch rather than block. He will have a great year - and then the Packers can't afford to keep him. So Davis will watch and learn and get a few reps here and there and be ready in 15 months.

As for Rasul, he deserves to go soon but I don't think you can sit Jaire for 1/4 the snaps which is what a slot CB will have to do. Opposing teams will not start a small quick slot receiver against Jaire and get shut down, instead they will go with 2 TE's or use someone like Lazard in the slot.

[Pckfn23]

Douglas and Myers

[YoHoChecko]

I’m finishing out the secondary today.

A 2021 returning Pro Bowler at a crucial position going 13th… I totally get and agree that there’s a one-year wonder skepticism here. But at this point it’s overkill.

Second vote to Savage bouncing back from last year’s apparent lack of progress.

[Yoop]

As for Rasul, he deserves to go soon but I don't think you can sit Jaire for 1/4 the snaps which is what a slot CB will have to do. Opposing teams will not start a small quick slot receiver against Jaire and get shut down, instead they will go with 2 TE's or use someone like Lazard in the slot.

why you keep saying this stuff is mind numbing, Nickel is our default scheme, we use it 59 % of the time, and we use dime 16% of the time, so basically we have 3 CB's on the field 75% of the time, and we'll rotate our CB's from edge to slot and vice versa depending on the WR's we face, so we won't be sitting any of the 3 for more then a breather, why you think we play mostly with only 2 CB's on the field is false.

[Backthepack4ever]

Went savage. It's a big year for him. We have seen glimpses of awesome and then some not so good play. Him playing at a high level allows Barry to use others in different roles.

Douglas Myers are next but I'm getting close to Wyatt and Watson votes

[Labrev]

1. Douglas
2. Savage

[Realist]

Gotta go long snapper at 13. Unfortunately I don't have a roster name as yet.

[Waldo]

To some degree the ball will create the rankings, we are definitely underselling a pass catcher. To go this deep with only the top 2 RB's being pass catchers when it accounts for >4K yds of offense and likely 30+ TD's means this will definitely be a miss in hindsight. Pretty soon at least; Aaron will certainly make at least 1 pass catcher worth more than #15 unless we go full Air/Ground assault where our top 2 pass catchers and runners are the same 2 dudes.

[BF004]

Gotta go long snapper at 13. Unfortunately I don't have a roster name as yet.

Shouldn’t you be outside? The weather is nice.

[BF004]

To some degree the ball will create the rankings, we are definitely underselling a pass catcher. To go this deep with only the top 2 RB's being pass catchers when it accounts for >4K yds of offense and likely 30+ TD's means this will definitely be a miss in hindsight. Pretty soon at least; Aaron will certainly make at least 1 pass catcher worth more than #15 unless we go full Air/Ground assault where our top 2 pass catchers and runners are the same 2 dudes.

But you could sell me that 4 different pass catchers will be our most productive guy.

Hell, even 5, no reason Doubbs couldn’t become an Aaron favorite this year.

[TheSkeptic]

As for Rasul, he deserves to go soon but I don't think you can sit Jaire for 1/4 the snaps which is what a slot CB will have to do. Opposing teams will not start a small quick slot receiver against Jaire and get shut down, instead they will go with 2 TE's or use someone like Lazard in the slot.

why you keep saying this stuff is mind numbing, Nickel is our default scheme, we use it 59 % of the time, and we use dime 16% of the time, so basically we have 3 CB's on the field 75% of the time, and we'll rotate our CB's from edge to slot and vice versa depending on the WR's we face, so we won't be sitting any of the 3 for more then a breather, why you think we play mostly with only 2 CB's on the field is false.

I say it because it is not so easy to move CB's around and make the decision about who is covering who at the last second. I for 1, don't like seeing blown coverages and opposing WR running free. I don't like seeing how no huddle working like magic against the Packers.

Plus, I thought the whole reason for drafting Quay Walker was so the Packers could be in 3-4 with 4 DB's more often. One of the reasons for drafting Wyatt was to have 3 D Linemen on the field so they would not get gashed by the run so often. It appears that Pettine asked for players that would allow the Packers to play standard base more often.

One last thing, where did you get that 59% stat and that 16%. I can't find it. Instead I find this:
Last season, former Packers defensive coordinator Mike Pettine used dime personnel more than anyone in the league and nickel personnel less than anyone in the league. According to Football Outsiders’ charting, the Packers used five defensive back sets (nickel) just 27 percent of the time, with the league-wide average being recorded at 60 percent. ~https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... e-steelers

[Yoop]

As for Rasul, he deserves to go soon but I don't think you can sit Jaire for 1/4 the snaps which is what a slot CB will have to do. Opposing teams will not start a small quick slot receiver against Jaire and get shut down, instead they will go with 2 TE's or use someone like Lazard in the slot.

why you keep saying this stuff is mind numbing, Nickel is our default scheme, we use it 59 % of the time, and we use dime 16% of the time, so basically we have 3 CB's on the field 75% of the time, and we'll rotate our CB's from edge to slot and vice versa depending on the WR's we face, so we won't be sitting any of the 3 for more then a breather, why you think we play mostly with only 2 CB's on the field is false.

I say it because it is not so easy to move CB's around and make the decision about who is covering who at the last second. I for 1, don't like seeing blown coverages and opposing WR running free. I don't like seeing how no huddle working like magic against the Packers.

Plus, I thought the whole reason for drafting Quay Walker was so the Packers could be in 3-4 with 4 DB's more often. One of the reasons for drafting Wyatt was to have 3 D Linemen on the field so they would not get gashed by the run so often. It appears that Pettine asked for players that would allow the Packers to play standard base more often.

One last thing, where did you get that 59% stat and that 16%. I can't find it. Instead I find this:
Last season, former Packers defensive coordinator Mike Pettine used dime personnel more than anyone in the league and nickel personnel less than anyone in the league. According to Football Outsiders’ charting, the Packers used five defensive back sets (nickel) just 27 percent of the time, with the league-wide average being recorded at 60 percent. ~https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... e-steelers

not sure where I saw it, might have been the 2020 season, still if ya use dime over 50% and ya use Nickel 25%, it's the same thing as to how many CB's are on the field, basically it still amounts to 3 or 4 CB's on the field well over 70% of the time.

and we didn't draft Wyatt to play a 50 front, we rarely use a 3-4 base, we use a hybrid 40 base front, thats 2 DT's and two edge rushers, we drafted Wyatt because he can produce in that front hopefully better then anyone else we have outside of Clark, I'd bet ya we don't use 3-4 base with 3 DT's over 15% of the snaps, and those will only be on 1st and 2nd down, we used slot 22 and took Walker to also curtail run production, hardly anyone uses a base front any more.

I'll take a quick look to see if I can get that info, but I'am busier the a one armed paper hanger lately, so it may take a while.

I say it because it is not so easy to move CB's around and make the decision about who is covering who at the last second. I for 1, don't like seeing blown coverages and opposing WR running free. I don't like seeing how no huddle working like magic against the Packers.

Skeptic this says it may not be easy, but moving DB's around is something we are very good at

heres a link I'd planned to bring that I had book marked, it shows that we care less about the run and far more about the pass, and we use a small box (less then 7) a lot, and we do so because it gives us versatility to disguise our defensive schemes, using a extra DT hinders that ability, it's not a long read, but one I think you'll enjoy

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how- ... ch-improve

that link isn't opening right, so here the article

How Packers finally found success on defense: Green Bay much improved under Joe Barry despite injuries
Green Bay has gotten better defensive results despite the absence of its two best defenders

By Jared Dubin
Dec 10, 2021 at 11:14 am ET
Over the last few years, the Green Bay Packers were repeatedly let down by their defense. Under former defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, the Packers couldn't break out of the realm of "slightly below average" on the less glamorous side of the ball, and after a disappointing showing in the NFC title game for the second consecutive season, the Packers decided to make a change.

Green Bay brought in Joe Barry, the former linebackers coach and assistant head coach of the Los Angeles Rams, to run the defense. The Packers have gotten the results they wanted. Despite playing most of the season without their two best players (Jaire Alexander and Za'Darius Smith), the Packers' defense ranks above average across the board. They're inside the top 10 in yards and points allowed per game, and in the top half of the league in yards per play, points per drive, EPA per play, and Football Outsiders' DVOA. They've also forced a turnover on the eighth-highest share of opponent drives and allowed a touchdown or field goal on the eighth-lowest share of drives.

YEAR YDS/GM PTS/GM YDS/PLAY PTS/DRIVE EPA/PLAY DVOA
2018 18 22 14 23 21 29
2019 18 9 22 11 14 15
2020 9 13 17 17 18 17
2021 7 5 11 15 14 14
A pertinent question, then, is how have they done it? Barry spent last season working under then-Rams defensive coordinator (and now head coach of the Chargers) Brandon Staley, and the previous few years before that working under one of the best defensive coordinators of all time in Wade Phillips. Earlier in his career, Barry worked under both Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli (who is also Barry's father-in-law). Those are four fantastic defensive minds from whom to learn, and Barry has done an admirable job of marrying concepts from each of them in coaching this Green Bay defense.

From Staley, Barry has brought along the idea of prioritizing stopping the pass rather than the run. Green Bay plays with a light box (i.e. six or fewer defenders close to the line of scrimmage) more often than not, encouraging opponents to run the ball by taking away their pass options deep down the field.

Despite those alignments, the Packers have been able to play the run decently well. Only two teams (the Rams and Chargers, naturally) have faced more opponent rushing attempts with six or fewer defenders in the box, per Tru Media. The Packers have been basically an average run defense on those plays. That's all you want to get out of that type of alignment. If you're just as good at playing the run as other teams that devote an extra player to defending it, you gain an extra pass defender with little cost to your defense.

Like Phillips, Barry has shown an ability to get his best players isolated in space, where they are able to take advantage of matchups and create splash plays. Even in the absence of Za'Darius Smith, Rashan Gary has faced double-teams at a significantly lower rate than the average edge rusher, according to tracking data obtained by ESPN. Gary has taken advantage of that fact and racked up 44 pressures, the 13th-most in the NFL, as well as 6.5 sacks.


Kenny Clark has been a monster up the middle, putting together arguably the best pass-rushing season of his career. Clark already has 40 pressures this year, tied for 17th-most in the NFL. Clark doesn't play straight up nose tackle as often now as he used to (he's lining up on the outside shoulder of the guard this year, more often than he's at the nose), and being able to slice through gaps rather than always being counted on to occupy two of them has freed him to get after it in the backfield a bit more often.


One thing you might notice about each of the plays in the Gary and Clark clips above is that the Packers are lined up in four-man fronts. Those fronts mostly include two down linemen on the interior and two stand-up rushers lined up out wide. They'll creep a linebacker up toward the line of scrimmage behind that front as well, both to take away a gap in the run game and force adjustments in pass protection.

Playing that way up front allows Barry to utilize two-high safety shells with regularity. But the Packers don't just stay in a regular two-high coverage. In fact, out of the 451 passing snaps they've faced, they have played only 20 total snaps in Cover-2 or 2-Man, or according to Tru Media.

Instead, they are spinning into some other coverage more often than not. Green Bay has played Cover-3 (a single-high safety coverage) more often than anything else, utilizing that look on 31.7 percent of opponent passing snaps. They've gone to Cover-4 19.5 percent of the time, and Cover-6 on 18 percent of snaps. That's a lot of variability, and among coverages that all fit together to take away the types of plays that one or the other is vulnerable to.

Cover-6, for example, is a combination coverage wherein the defense plays Cover-2 to one side of the field and Cover-4 to the other. (4 + 2 = 6, duh.) Rotating to that out of a two-high shell can be confusing because quarterbacks may not know which player is responsible for which deep zone, and who is rotating over to the hook/curl zones or into the flat. (The graphic below just shows a standard Cover-6 rotation. There are other ways to get into it.)

cover6.png
Cover-6 = Cover-4 to one side, Cover-2 to the other
They've taken advantage of, among others, Matthew Stafford and Russell Wilson with this coverage, coming away with interceptions because a pass the quarterback expected to be open wasn't, and he ended up forcing a throw into directly into coverage.


It helps that the team's cornerbacks (even without Alexander) are playing really well. Prior to his injury, Alexander was averaging 1.02 yards allowed per coverage snap, according to Tru Media. In his absence, Rasul Douglas is at 1.04 per snap, Chandon Sullivan is at 1.09 per snap, and rookie Eric Stokes is at 1.16 per snap. If passer rating is more your speed, consider that Douglas has allowed a 51.0 rating on throws into his coverage, Stokes has allowed 63.2, and Sullivan has allowed just 73.9.

Having Adrian Amos and Darnell Savage provide help over the top surely has something to do with that, as does the terrific play of linebackers Krys Barnes and (especially) De'Vondre Campbell. When you play a lot of zone coverage, those are the players mostly responsible for the middle of the field, where throws are more likely to go because opponents will search for the soft spots in between zone defenders. Getting high level play from your safeties and linebackers is key to executing the kinds of defenses Green Bay utilizes, and that's exactly what the Packers have gotten.

It remains to be seen how the Packers will deal with an opponent that decides to simply run the ball down their throats all game long -- the type of opponent that gave them issues during the Pettine era. The offense staking them to leads throughout the season has taken that option off the table in many games, but so has the defense's own performance in running situations. For those reasons, it looks like a team better set up to defend the best offenses this year than in years past -- especially if and when they get their two Pro Bowl defenders back on the field.

[Realist]

Gotta go long snapper at 13. Unfortunately I don't have a roster name as yet.

Shouldn’t you be outside? The weather is nice.

Good call. Actually on the deck imbibing Looking forward to 14. Haven't decided yet. Has our number 1 wr sammy been taken yet? 40 tough calls to go.

[Realist]

Backup left tackle at 14. Jumping ahead while I am outside.

[NCF]

Backup left tackle at 14. Jumping ahead while I am outside.

I mean… contribute or don’t.

[Drj820]

I went Rasul and then Wyatt.

Rasul really was a rockstar last year. Tons of huge INTs in big spots. He deserves this slot. But Im tellin ya, Wyatt is gameday ready. Hes going to be making a splash this year.

Rasul
Wyatt
Savage

in my book

[APB]

To some degree the ball will create the rankings, we are definitely underselling a pass catcher. To go this deep with only the top 2 RB's being pass catchers when it accounts for >4K yds of offense and likely 30+ TD's means this will definitely be a miss in hindsight. Pretty soon at least; Aaron will certainly make at least 1 pass catcher worth more than #15 unless we go full Air/Ground assault where our top 2 pass catchers and runners are the same 2 dudes.

But you could sell me that 4 different pass catchers will be our most productive guy.

Hell, even 5, no reason Doubbs couldn’t become an Aaron favorite this year.

This is the issue I’m seeing. One of those pass catchers is gonna have a season that justifies selection very soon. Which one, tho, is anyone’s guess.

[go pak go]

I think Watkins has a 2015'ish James Jones type season.

I think Christian Watson has the potential for the biggest flash type season.

I think Doubs could be the "biggest surprise" type season.